tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post5533467891345433138..comments2023-10-25T06:36:25.124-07:00Comments on Mortgage Fraud: Last Acts (February 13, 2008)Whistleblowerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13144659621472624683noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-3251945443301703402008-03-11T17:54:00.000-07:002008-03-11T17:54:00.000-07:00Moogie triesThe presentment package mailed to the ...<B>Moogie tries</B><BR/><I>The presentment package mailed to the lender didn't involve filing any documents and I don't agree that sending out a challenge or dispute letter to a lender to give them a chance to clear things up is tantamount to mail fraud and I don't believe the court specifically said that either.<BR/>You keep changing your story as you go.</I><BR/><BR/>The presentment was a false document, and contained another false document, the so called bond, but the one that got them nailed was the release they sent to the various recorders. All part and parcel, and still part of what they said they were going to do, so goes to conspiracy as well. <BR/><BR/><B>Moogie fails</B><BR/><I>Wow, it's nice to know that you agree and finally admit that there is a huge double standard that exists.</I><BR/><BR/>Not in the least. We are talking about two entirely different areas here. You have yet to prove that there was ANY fraud whatsoever involved in any of the loans dim and dimmer attempted to void.<BR/><BR/><B>Moogie has a point</B><BR/><I>How sad!!!!!</I><BR/><BR/>Regrettably and unfortunately true. I make no apologies for what Countrywide or any of the others did as far as the regulatory rules they broke. They should be prosecuted, but it is doubtful much will come of it.<BR/><BR/><B>and then he loses it</B><BR/><I>You're right, I don't understand the sarcasm in Judge Beanhead's words or his scenarios he presented. Please explain the sarcasm to me.</I><BR/><BR/>The sarcasm was in what might have happened in and ideal if brain dead world and if 1) dim and dimmer hadn’t been so totally inept, 2) there had been enough truly stupid and desperate people to fall for their con, 3) the lending operations had been totally out of control and not paying any attention, 4) the comptroller and the servicing agencies hadn’t sent out a circular outlining the scam, and 5) there was pork in the treetops. In other words, it wasn’t any more likely to fly than any of its many predecessors, and your wishful thinking won’t make it otherwise.<BR/><BR/>You are right in that the Judge’s comments about the Dorean dimbos being in it for the money, they just weren’t very good about it.<BR/><BR/>Then you wander off in one of your dithers trying to turn a turnip into an orange, when you should be discussing apples.notorial dissenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15919415990961384168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-42892379395376503532008-03-11T14:56:00.000-07:002008-03-11T14:56:00.000-07:00Notarial Dissent said: "Again, you still fail to ...Notarial Dissent said: "Again, you still fail to comprehend sarcasm."<BR/>_______________________________<BR/><BR/>You're right, I don't understand the sarcasm in Judge Beanhead's words or his scenarios he presented. Please explain the sarcasm to me. <BR/><BR/>I don't think the Judge was being sarcastic when he stated that the Dorean Group were only in this for the money & for the huge refinances and many refinances of clients properties. <BR/><BR/>Course than again, wouldn't it have been much simpler if the trustees just made one blanket mortgage & used all the clients properties as collateral for 1 big loan. I would think a big bank would court a situation like that. How long would that take? Timing seemed to be the problem why the Dorean Group didn't make big money according to Judge Bean. Even a moron could have figured that out if the Dorean Group were only in it for the money. The trustees had the power and authority to accomplish that. Would have been illegal, but wouldn't have been questioned by any lender if money was their only motive. I guess Judge Bean didn't think of that when he presented his sarcastic scenario, you think? Or maybe Judge Bean really isn't as smart or fair as he thinks he is? Which is it?mogel007https://www.blogger.com/profile/11589299168185830730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-24905516286213096512008-03-11T14:48:00.000-07:002008-03-11T14:48:00.000-07:00Notarial Dissent said: "But the Dorean Group scam...Notarial Dissent said: "But the Dorean Group scam wasn't a big enough deal to rise above the noise floor of pressing criminal issues that more dramatically affect thousands of lives and involve many more millions of dollars."<BR/><BR/>Yet Countrywide's actions DID INVOLVE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS and did affect thousands of lives in your own words, yet "little will be done."<BR/><BR/>How sad!!!!!mogel007https://www.blogger.com/profile/11589299168185830730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-6338382135423692242008-03-11T14:46:00.000-07:002008-03-11T14:46:00.000-07:00Notarial Dissent said: "Countrywide is being inve...Notarial Dissent said: "Countrywide is being investigated for internal fraud, violation of a number of regulatory laws, and for making loans that it shouldn’t have, which constitutes fraud as well."<BR/><BR/>Pertaining to the fraud Countrywide did, Notarial Dissent said: "little will be done except for a tightening of the general regulations."<BR/><BR/>Wow, it's nice to know that you agree and finally admit that there is a huge double standard that exists.mogel007https://www.blogger.com/profile/11589299168185830730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-40547471470385604772008-03-11T14:36:00.000-07:002008-03-11T14:36:00.000-07:00Notarial Dissent said: "Oh give it up Moogs, firs...Notarial Dissent said: "Oh give it up Moogs, first you claim that the dim bulbs sending out their presentments was proof of their sincerity and now you are claiming they didn’t." <BR/><BR/>"The charges brought were using the mails to file fraudulent documents,"<BR/>________________________________<BR/><BR/>The presentment package mailed to the lender didn't involve filing any documents and I don't agree that sending out a challenge or dispute letter to a lender to give them a chance to clear things up is tantamount to mail fraud and I don't believe the court specifically said that either. <BR/>You keep changing your story as you go.mogel007https://www.blogger.com/profile/11589299168185830730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-42378467706139105482008-03-11T11:36:00.000-07:002008-03-11T11:36:00.000-07:00mogel007 said.Sure if the lender wants to break th...mogel007 said.<BR/>Sure if the lender wants to break the law & commit predatory lending practices.<BR/>___________________________________<BR/>Your definition of predatory lending must be pretty broad there, Moogs! Besides, I thought mortgage lenders were breaking the law EVERY time we made a "loan". Are you saying that mortgage lending is legal as long as it doesn't meet predatory lending criteria?Scott from Vinelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00137664783586963236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-63087050108005730112008-03-10T23:52:00.000-07:002008-03-10T23:52:00.000-07:00Moogie’s nostrils are flaring again and he can’t k...<B>Moogie’s nostrils are flaring again and he can’t keep his lies straight anymore</B><BR/><I>This statement comes from the critic that CAN'T visualize or ever admit or conceive more than 600-800 clients ever joined the process FROM DAY 1?</I><BR/><BR/>What’s the matter Moogs, don’t recognize sarcasm when you run in to it?<BR/><BR/>JRB was stating a best case scenario for dim and dimmer, and what might have happened if sloppiness, laziness, ego, and just plain good old fashioned stupidity hadn’t also been a part of the equation. But since you don’t recognize reality when it comes up and slaps you in the face why should you recognize something subtle like sarcasm?<BR/><BR/><B>really flaring now</B><BR/><I>So you believe that Dorean took advantage of people in foreclosure and also knowing people in foreclosure generally have really bad credit, and are unable to refinance in most cases, and yet you also believe that the figure of $100,000 could be financed, and is realistic when the average home was probably around $120,000 in the process?</I><BR/><BR/>No, Moogems, I believe that dim and dimmer took advantage of everyone they could, since we know that some of them were in foreclosure when they started, and the ones that weren’t were by the end of it, or were nearly there. That is what I call taking advantage. I don’t think it mattered one wit whether the clients could have floated a loan to buy toothpaste, I think that dim and dimmer would have tried to separate them from as much money as they could and then leave them to drown, as they in fact did. Since there was no way any of the Dorean nonsense could have helped and or stopped anything it really didn’t matter what state they were in as long as they forked over the $3k to dim and dimmer.<BR/><BR/>The short answer to your question is the same as the long answer, I think they took advantage, cheated, defrauded, lied, and generally swindled everyone they came in contact with. That simple and plain enough for you?<BR/><BR/>Just as a point of reference Moogs, who is in jail right now facing a life sentence for fraud, and who is spending his time defending two convicted con artists by claiming that what they were doing was legal when the real world has repeatedly told him and them that they were not only wrong but criminal, and who is quite happily sitting at home making a monkey of you on a regular basis? I think you need to seriously refine your definitions, if not your values Moogems.<BR/><BR/><B>even Moogie can’t really believe this one</B><BR/><I>Where's your proof of this? Maybe the dorean Group wanted another individual in control? After all the administrative judgments were assigned too to the same person you call a con person.</I><BR/><BR/>Let’s see, who is in jail, and who is off in a country with no extradition treaty and no real bank or anything else with all poor Kurt’s ill gotten gains? Since Kurt will never see the outside of his prison in this life, and since there is no way to enforce any claim he might have to the stolen money, you do the math. Besides, if Dougy was legit, he would have returned the money to the US after the Dorean boys got busted, and you can bet he won’t do that, anymore than he will step foot in any country that has an extradition treaty with Australia were he is wanted for securities fraud. Like I said Moogs, short of there being honor among thieves, that money has long since gone into Dougy’s slush fund if he hasn’t already spent it.<BR/><BR/><B>Moogie trying a new tack</B><BR/><I>How about the one reporter who was confronted by Kurt & Kurt stated: "I undertand that you think I am a fraud artist!"<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>Sorry, no Moogs, the only reporting I came across were the articles in the Bee, and they were less than flattering, and as I recall they called a fraud a fraud. I doubt seriously if it was of much interest to any of the news crowd until after the hammer came down, and to put not too fine a point on it, they just weren’t much in the way of news, they are small chump change in the world of Enron.<BR/><BR/><B>Moogie beating that dead horse again</B><BR/><I>Maybe a better question is: How come the bank fraud charges were dropped BEFORE THE TRIAL? </I><BR/><BR/>I have no idea, and we will probably never know unless one of the former prosecutors decides to write a short article about their most boring cases. My suspicion is that the mail fraud was easier to prove, and carried a longer sentence. More bang for the buck as it were. In any event Moogs, the dropping of the charges does not equate to innocence in anyone’s mind but yours. The charges brought were using the mails to file fraudulent documents, and that was what was shown and proven, and that is all that is required. Rave on Moogs, between your and the dim bulbs grasp of legal precepts I will take what I know of the law and what the courts have said over anything you have to say.<BR/><BR/><BR/><B>here Moogie makes a great deal of pointless noise</B><BR/><I>HOW DO YOU KNOW THE DOREAN GROUP USED THE MAILS?</I><BR/><BR/>Oh give it up Moogs, first you claim that the dim bulbs sending out their presentments was proof of their sincerity and now you are claiming they didn’t. Which is it. Either they sent out the presentments as you said or they didn’t. In any case, they sent the stuff through the mails, they came in envelopes with postage markers on them which qualifies as being mailed, and most places when they get stuff like that they staple the envelope to the back of the pile, and that is all that is required for proof of mailing. That one won’t even come close to flying.<BR/><BR/><B>Moogie clueless</B><BR/><I>HOW CAN THEY BE FRAUDULENT DOCUMENTS WHEN BOTH THE CLIENT & DOREAN TRUSTEES SINCERELY BELIEVED THEY HAD LEGAL JUSTIFICATIONS TO FILE THEM?</I><BR/><BR/>For the same reason that you will still go to prison for killing someone even though you really sincerely utterly and absolutely believe that it is your right to do so. You remember that old canard about ignorance of the law being no excuse, well it applies here. The only place you can get away with claiming you are too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time is in tax court, and then only in a limited fashion. So no cookie here either.<BR/><BR/><B>Moogie blathers</B><BR/><I>What about the Dorean Group periodically sending paperwork & their business over to the FBI purposely since the FBI made it their business to know and the FBI kept sending the paperwork back to the Dorean Group, as if they weren't interested?</I><BR/><BR/>Sure they did Moogs. By then it was a little further along than that.<BR/><BR/><B>Moogie prevaricates</B><BR/><I>So are you suggesting that the Comptroller of the Currency send out a letter to indict to the proper authorities & that started things, & it wasn't Judge Alsup that started things rolling?</I><BR/><BR/>Nope, again, you are trying to twist things to your own purpose. I said that copies of the documents were sent to the comptroller’s office and that is all I said. The comptroller did send out a circular warning about that particular nonsense, which is what probably alerted a good many of the banks. The indictment came from the Federal Prosecutor’s office, probably encouraged by Alsup’s letter, but who knows, where it came from is irrelevant to the fact that they got an indictment on the charges they filed.<BR/><BR/><B>Moogie pontificates</B><BR/><I>"COUNTRYWIDE is NOT BEING INVESTIGATED FOR MASSIVE ACCOUNTING FRAUD EITHER BECAUSE MAJOR LENDERS JUST DON'T DO BUSINESS THAT WAY."</I><BR/><BR/>Countrywide is being investigated for internal fraud, violation of a number of regulatory laws, and for making loans that it shouldn’t have, which constitutes fraud as well. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the validity of individual loans or the lending process in general, but abuses that can happen on the other end of it.<BR/><BR/><B>Moogey as usual misses the point</B><BR/><I>Tell that to the Senate that will undoubtedly hold hearings against Countrywide & other lenders.</I><BR/><BR/>The hearings are to determine Countrywide and other lenders were doing that put them in the condition they are in now. The fact that it was gross mismanagement and making subprime loans that should never have been made will come as a great shock to all concerned and much noise will be made and little will be done except for a tightening of the general regulations. It still has nothing to do with the validity of loans in general.<BR/><BR/><B>Moogie blathers some more</B><BR/><I>Judge Bean obviously believed that discharges of mortgages showing Scott's name on them, would fly by the underwriting department 5,000 times in a row undetected as something not even remotely suspicious or something that may be challenged.</I><BR/><BR/>Again, you still fail to comprehend sarcasm.notorial dissenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15919415990961384168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-39782271352111935742008-03-10T12:49:00.000-07:002008-03-10T12:49:00.000-07:00Notarial dissent said: "they have cast their lot,...Notarial dissent said: "they have cast their lot, and will eventually have to pay the price, but they can’t say that they weren’t told,...."<BR/>_______________________________<BR/><BR/>More attempted prophecy from you about more impending convictions for more dorean people? <BR/><BR/>You keep saying that, & I keep asking for proof from you, that the government is doing anything, but you are still silent. <BR/><BR/>It's funny how you only attempt to prophesy when you have nothing in hand and nothing concrete. <BR/><BR/>Yeah, that will be my defense, "I wasn't told". LOLmogel007https://www.blogger.com/profile/11589299168185830730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-78623551933208952842008-03-10T12:36:00.000-07:002008-03-10T12:36:00.000-07:00Scott said: "There are also plenty of conventiona...Scott said: "There are also plenty of conventional subprime programs out there loaning 95% or 100% to people with shabby credit."<BR/>_________________________________<BR/><BR/>Borrowers have to have the income to support the loan too & the collateral must fit the parameters of the loan too. <BR/><BR/>Judge Bean used in his example over 8 times the amount of clients he believed were ever in the process & other unrealistic assumptions that sound like, "well if frogs had wings, they wouldn't sit on their butts."<BR/><BR/> One of the first criticisms of the dorean process was that the Dorean Group was taking advantage of clients in foreclosure who really couldn't afford this, by extracting a fee to give them hope by the process that was implemented. Most often people in foreclosure or who lost their home, don't have the income to pass underwriting requirements as you say. Judge Bean obviously believed that discharges of mortgages showing Scott's name on them, would fly by the underwriting department 5,000 times in a row undetected as something not even remotely suspicious or something that may be challenged. These are just a few reasons to show how unrealistic Judge Bean is in his assumptions to show Kurt's intent.mogel007https://www.blogger.com/profile/11589299168185830730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-12598029832549357712008-03-10T12:17:00.000-07:002008-03-10T12:17:00.000-07:00Scott said: "As to the ability of the uncreditwor...Scott said: "As to the ability of the uncreditworthy to obtain mortgage financing, it happens in my real world everyday."<BR/>________________________________<BR/><BR/>Sure if the lender wants to break the law & commit predatory lending practices.mogel007https://www.blogger.com/profile/11589299168185830730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-24247840346175354372008-03-10T12:08:00.000-07:002008-03-10T12:08:00.000-07:00Notarial dissent said: "If there is a problem wit...Notarial dissent said: "If there is a problem with a mortgage, the ONLY venue to challenge it is in court."<BR/>_______________________________<BR/><BR/>Tell that to the Senate that will undoubtedly hold hearings against Countrywide & other lenders.mogel007https://www.blogger.com/profile/11589299168185830730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-34523145659861050392008-03-10T12:06:00.000-07:002008-03-10T12:06:00.000-07:00Notarial Dissent said: "There is no great conspir...Notarial Dissent said: "There is no great conspiracy or anything else, it is a crock."<BR/><BR/>And also, as I speak, "COUNTRYWIDE is NOT BEING INVESTIGATED FOR MASSIVE ACCOUNTING FRAUD EITHER BECAUSE MAJOR LENDERS JUST DON'T DO BUSINESS THAT WAY." LOLmogel007https://www.blogger.com/profile/11589299168185830730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-79837757367148349042008-03-10T11:59:00.000-07:002008-03-10T11:59:00.000-07:00jUDGE BEAN MEANS TO SAY: If you and your little g...jUDGE BEAN MEANS TO SAY: If you and your little gang (DOREAN CLIENTS) follow some guys (KURT & SCOTT) into a parking lot, (CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT), pull out a toy handgun and demand they hand over their wallets (DOREAN PRESENTMENT TO THE BANKS) you've committed a crime whether or not they hand it over. (WHETHER OR NOT THE BANKS VOLUNTARILY DISCHARGE THE MORTGAGE OR NOT). (INFERRING ALL PARTICIPANTS & PRINCIPALS OF THE PROCESS ARE CRIMINALS). And if the authorities were watching and caught you in the act, (THEY MUST NOT HAVE SINCE ALL CLIENTS WEREN'T CHARGED), they don't even need the victim to testify,(YET CLIENTS DID TESTIFY), especially when members of your gang were willing to cooperate.(INFERRING DOREAN CLIENTS WERE THE PERPETRATOR & CRIMINAL IN THIS SCENARIO TOO.<BR/>IN THIS CASE THE CLIENT COMES TO THE COURT WITH UNCLEAN HANDS EVEN THOUGH ACCORDING TO THE COURT, THEY ARE THE VICTIM. IF THE CLIENT IS THE CRIMINAL HERE, HOW IS HE ALSO THE VICTIM OF MAIL FRAUD? <BR/><BR/>JUDGE, THIS ANANOLOGY IS VERY CONFUSING. IF IT IS A GOOD ANALOGY TO THE DOREAN SITUATION, THEN YOU ARE A JOKE. IF THIS ANALOGY DOESN'T APPLY, THAN YOU ARE JUST A BUNCH OF WASTED WORDS & HOT AIR, AND YOU JUST KEEP PROVING THAT THE DOREAN GROUP NEEDS TO GO FREE.mogel007https://www.blogger.com/profile/11589299168185830730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-67298115859907261992008-03-10T11:50:00.000-07:002008-03-10T11:50:00.000-07:00mogel007 said...Correct me if I'm mistaken, but on...mogel007 said...<BR/>Correct me if I'm mistaken, but only a small percentage can qualify for the Nehemiah program. Isn't that program for 1st time homeowners & low income people since in essence the down payment monies are a grant and don't have to be reapid?<BR/>___________________________________<BR/>Good point Moogs, about 1st time homebuyers. Nehemiah doesn't specifically apply to Dorean clients. But I was just trying to make the point that poor credit doesn't prevent people from getting high LTV loans.Scott from Vinelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00137664783586963236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-27137718355223967562008-03-10T11:43:00.000-07:002008-03-10T11:43:00.000-07:00Notarial dissent said: "The only problem is that ...Notarial dissent said: "The only problem is that some of them got turned over to the FBI and the Comptroller and the scam got gaffed."<BR/>_________________________________<BR/><BR/>What about the Dorean Group periodically sending paperwork & their business over to the FBI purposely since the FBI made it their business to know and the FBI kept sending the paperwork back to the Dorean Group, as if they weren't interested? So are you suggesting that the Comptroller of the Currency send out a letter to indict to the proper authorities & that started things, & it wasn't Judge Alsup that started things rolling? Where's the evidence of such? Or is this just more of your hot air speaking? Have you forgotten about the FBI raid that took ALL PAPERWORK & confiscated computers? That happened long before any indictments.mogel007https://www.blogger.com/profile/11589299168185830730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-51658485284809167422008-03-10T11:42:00.000-07:002008-03-10T11:42:00.000-07:00mogel007 said...Where is the other 95% going to co...mogel007 said...<BR/>Where is the other 95% going to come from? Oh that's right, it will come from a lender who hires a false appraiser that inflates the true value of the house maybe?<BR/>___________________________________<BR/>So you actually believe that lenders benefit from inflated appraisals? You know, it suddenly occurs to be that people outside the mortgage industry apparently don't grasp the dichotomy of the origination and underwriting processes.Scott from Vinelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00137664783586963236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-5145387627737707072008-03-10T11:35:00.000-07:002008-03-10T11:35:00.000-07:00Notarial dissent said: The charges were not that ...Notarial dissent said: The charges were not that they defrauded the banks, but that that was what they were conspiring to do, and they were charged with mail fraud, which is using the mails to file fraudulent documents.<BR/><BR/>HOW DO YOU KNOW THE DOREAN GROUP USED THE MAILS? DID ANY POSTMASTER TESTIFY TO THIS? MAYBE FEDERAL EXPRESS WAS USED, AND MAYBE MANY OF THE CLIENTS FILED THOSE ALLEGED FALSE DOCUMENTS THEMSELVES? AND MAYBE THOSE DOCUMENTS WERE HAND DELIVERED? IF THE CLIENT FILED THOSE ALLEGED FRAUDULENT DOCUMENTS, HOW CAN THE CLIENT BE THE VICTIM? ACCORDING TO JUDGE BEAN, THEY WERE THE ONLY ONE'S HURT. SO YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THE EXPRESSION: NO HARM, NO FOUL. <BR/><BR/><BR/> The crimes they were charged with do not require anyone to testify, except for the presentation of the fraudulent items. Plain, simple, and irrefutable. When dim bulbs signed and filed those papers, they committed fraud,<BR/><BR/>WAS THERE A HANDWRITING EXPERT THAT TESTIFIED THAT THE DOREAN GROUP SIGNED THOSE DOCUMENTS? <BR/><BR/> and when he used the mails to do it he dragged the Feds in to it, and all they have to prove is that fraudulent documents were sent through the mails <BR/><BR/>HOW CAN THEY BE FRAUDULENT DOCUMENTS WHEN BOTH THE CLIENT & DOREAN TRUSTEES SINCERELY BELIEVED THEY HAD LEGAL JUSTIFICATIONS TO FILE THEM? IN THE WORST CASE SCENARIO, THIS IS ONLY A MISTAKE & CERTAINLY NO CRIME. IF A COUNTY RECORDER FILES A FALSE DOCUMENT BY MISTAKE, OR USES THE MAIL TOO ARE THEY CHARGED WITH A CONSPIRATORY CRIME TOO?mogel007https://www.blogger.com/profile/11589299168185830730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-82045649590290255812008-03-10T11:18:00.000-07:002008-03-10T11:18:00.000-07:00Scott said: "And if they use a DPA program like N...Scott said: "And if they use a DPA program like Nehemiah (who HUD tried unsuccesfully to shut down recently), they can end up borrowing 100%."<BR/>____________________________<BR/><BR/>Correct me if I'm mistaken, but only a small percentage can qualify for the Nehemiah program. Isn't that program for 1st time homeowners & low income people since in essence the down payment monies are a grant and don't have to be reapid? And how many dorean clients would even know about this program anyway and would have used it? That only takes into consideration the down payment of maybe 5%. Where is the other 95% going to come from? Oh that's right, it will come from a lender who hires a false appraiser that inflates the true value of the house maybe?mogel007https://www.blogger.com/profile/11589299168185830730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-69558488562820586162008-03-10T11:00:00.000-07:002008-03-10T11:00:00.000-07:00Judge Bean said: "the simple answer to your ques...Judge Bean said: "the simple answer to your question is the publicity part of the plan. Most scams will try to paint a picture of legitimacy, sometimes even with sloppily contrived leaks about alleged "investigations." And they may even fool a few less-than-knowledgable media types in order to have something to point to for promotional purposes.<BR/><BR/>WHO WERE THE MEDIA TYPES THAT WERE FOOLED & HOW DOES THIS STATEMENT APPLY TO THE DOREAN GROUP'S BUSINESS? <BR/><BR/>But the Dorean Group scam wasn't a big enough deal to rise above the noise floor of pressing criminal issues that more dramatically affect thousands of lives and involve many more millions of dollars. <BR/><BR/>SO IF DOREAN WASN'T A BIG DEAL, WHY ARE THEY FACING LIFE FOR SOMETHING THAT ISN'T A BIG DEAL? AND IF THE DOREAN PROCESS DIDN'T AFFECT THOUSANDS OF LIVES, WHY DID YOU USE THE EXAMPLE OF 5,000 CLIENTS? <BR/><BR/>Outside of some legal expenses for the businesses involved, in the long run the only major financial losers were the clients who fell for it and the rest of us as taxpayers who are going to be paying for Kurt and Scott's incarceration for years to come.<BR/><BR/>PROBLEM IS THE GRACE COMMISSION PANEL HIRED BY RONALD REAGAN CONCLUDED THAT EVERY FEDERAL INCOME TAX DOLLAR GOES TO PAY ONLY INTEREST ON THE FEDERAL DEBT. SO HOW CAN TAXPAYERS PAY FOR THE COST TO HOUSE FEDERAL INMATES, YOU LOST ME THERE. THE ONLY LOSERS WERE THE CLIENTS? SO YOU ADMIT THAT THE BANKS/LENDERS LOST NOTHING? LOL <BR/><BR/>And the "lenders" didn't have to show up. The conspiracy to defraud was more than enough to put Kurt and Scott away.<BR/><BR/>YOUR CONCLUSION HAS NO MERIT. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE IN THE COURT RECORD OF CONSPIRACY TO DEFRAUD. A SERVICE WAS PROVIDED, A CHALLENGE TO THE LENDERS WAS PERFORMED FOR THE CLIENTS AND AN HONEST ATTEMPT WAS MADE TO PERFORM THESE SERVICES. WHAT ASPECT OF THAT CHALLENGE HAD MISREPRESENTATIONS? <BR/><BR/>If you and your little gang follow some guys into a parking lot, pull out a toy handgun and demand they hand over their wallets you've committed a crime whether or not they hand it over. <BR/><BR/> And if the authorities were watching and caught you in the act, they don't even need the victim to testify, especially when members of your gang were willing to cooperate.<BR/><BR/>IN THIS ANALOGY, THE CLIENT IS NOT THE VICTIM THEN, WHICH MEANS THERE COULD NOT BE ANY DOREAN CONVICTIONS WITH NO VICTIM, & NO TESTIMONY.mogel007https://www.blogger.com/profile/11589299168185830730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-29394567380164658352008-03-10T10:52:00.000-07:002008-03-10T10:52:00.000-07:00mogel007 said...Maybe a better question is: How co...mogel007 said...<BR/>Maybe a better question is: How come the bank fraud charges were dropped BEFORE THE TRIAL? <BR/><BR/>Maybe because there was no bank fraud by the dorean process in the first place. If there is no bank fraud, there is no conspiracy TO COMMIT mail or wire fraud since the clients can't be the victim according to the statutues or even according to the original intent when the statute was passed as law. <BR/>___________________________________<BR/>Man, what the heck is that awful smell? Oh, never mind... it's just moogie's dead horse.Scott from Vinelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00137664783586963236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-82951033903460558072008-03-10T10:49:00.000-07:002008-03-10T10:49:00.000-07:00mogel007 said...No, I don't give credence to any o...mogel007 said...<BR/>No, I don't give credence to any of Judge Beanhead's figures based upon what be believes & if you do too, than you are just as stupid as Judge Beanhead living in an unreal world. <BR/>___________________________________<BR/>As to the ability of the uncreditworthy to obtain mortgage financing, it happens in my real world everyday.Scott from Vinelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00137664783586963236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-38703076541821870352008-03-10T10:42:00.000-07:002008-03-10T10:42:00.000-07:00Don't want to risk involving the Dept of HUD? Ther...Don't want to risk involving the Dept of HUD? There are also plenty of conventional subprime programs out there loaning 95% or 100% to people with shabby credit.Scott from Vinelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00137664783586963236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-7235644367383478192008-03-10T10:38:00.000-07:002008-03-10T10:38:00.000-07:00Don't believe answered: "Gee, hum, wonder why no ...Don't believe answered: "Gee, hum, wonder why no reporters even bothered to show up????<BR/><BR/>Maybe because they knew it was a crock????<BR/>_______________________________<BR/><BR/>How about the one reporter who was confronted by Kurt & Kurt stated: "I undertand that you think I am a fraud artist!"<BR/><BR/>Do you remember what the reporter said as he backpeddled. He denied ever stating or believing Kurt was a scam artist, even though he had the statement printed. <BR/>So your conclusion is nonsense based upon what happened in the past. The truth is the reporter printed one thing & stated in person something totally different. LOL <BR/><BR/>If anything the reporters are the flaky & dishonest ones, if they deny openly what they print. If anything, a better argument could be presented that the reporter in question, doesn't really know what he truly believes, or the reporter is just a plain liar or crock himself. <BR/><BR/>Maybe a better question is: How come the bank fraud charges were dropped BEFORE THE TRIAL? <BR/><BR/>Maybe because there was no bank fraud by the dorean process in the first place. If there is no bank fraud, there is no conspiracy TO COMMIT mail or wire fraud since the clients can't be the victim according to the statutues or even according to the original intent when the statute was passed as law. <BR/><BR/> Remember, the Dorean group in the very beginning said that the "stupidest thing that the government could do is to bring bank fraud charges against them." In that scenario, where there is no suspected bank fraud, there is also no mail fraud scam or conspiracy and the grand jury would have never indicted in the first place and the press would have had nothing to complain about in the beginning. <BR/><BR/>If you believe the government, then answer this question: How can the clients be part of the conspiracy by mere participation and at the same time also be the victim of the conspiracy?mogel007https://www.blogger.com/profile/11589299168185830730noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-1808032348775600362008-03-10T10:37:00.000-07:002008-03-10T10:37:00.000-07:00And if they use a DPA program like Nehemiah (who H...And if they use a DPA program like Nehemiah (who HUD tried unsuccesfully to shut down recently), they can end up borrowing 100%.<BR/><BR/>A lot of people who end up in foreclosure are there for a very good reason.Scott from Vinelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00137664783586963236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14007337.post-49119587347673196882008-03-10T10:34:00.000-07:002008-03-10T10:34:00.000-07:00mogel007 said...So you believe that people with ba...mogel007 said...<BR/>So you believe that people with bad credit can get an 83% loan to value loan?<BR/>___________________________________<BR/>We give 97% loans to people with bad credit everyday. It's called FHA, in case you haven't heard of it.Scott from Vinelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00137664783586963236noreply@blogger.com