It appears that our victims or should I say the alleged victims who will not testify are going out of business in rapid succession. I have seen some concern that this disappearing act will have an affect upon my judgments. This is true but that does not mean that my damages or ability to collect upon them are disappearing. I have been structured at all times to preserve what belongs to us. Most of you don't understand my tactics or the sacrifices I'm willing to make but in the end you will see that I above all knew exactly what was happening, where I was, and what my rights and duties were. You should look at the witness list. I know half of those people are not adversarial and I know how to handle the other half. I'm insulted that at the end of the game with all the bru-ha-ha that this was all they have. Frankly I'm sensing embarrassment from my enemy. I'm certain Mr. David Hall and his trusty sidekick Bridget Martin can go through the procedures of a trial but they will never be able to make any sense of the content. I am so under-whelmed. I've filed no counter responses to their motions. I am more than content to use their witnesses, their trial strategy, and their expert witnesses. In fact I couldn't have asked for better support. Poor Mr. Alsup finally gets to see the great work of his evil presumptions and what brilliance and money can do with a lie given two years. You know what's funny about these idiots is that they know they have a dog that won't hunt but still they are willing to go through the exercise instead of admitting their error and moving on in honesty and productivity. Their whole plan has been bluff until we surrender. They have no move to make on their own only the pursuit of our consent and agreement to fold. Now their FBI profilers have already told them we won't yet they still mindlessly pursue the plan. Those trained in procedure are blind to any ingenuity to settle a matter. They can't comprehend our settlement offers, they can't comprehend our convictions, and they can't comprehend any adaptation away from their devotions and ritual. Now these are the ones that are kool-aid cult drinkers.
There is much to tell you but it will have to wait until the other side of the finish line. I've written it in other writings to preserve it but I do not want to yet disclose my boast to the retards in the finally of their folly.
Again I want to encourage you to find the promise in our suffering. A blessing is headed your way you could not have obtained through any other fashion. We had to go into the belly of the beast and you had to squirm about in your foolishness until God could correct your vision, calibrate your hope, and lead you to victory. We were never in any danger and all your fears were false. Even if you lost the treasures of this world you will discover that God was preserving them but first He was preserving you. You will know better how to structure your affairs and how to remove those fears and phobias far from you in the future. Let the peace of God that passes all understanding overtake you and before you can exhale from the release of the burden your victory will be upon you. I have seen things and heard things about my enemy and his game you wouldn't suspect but I can tell you that fear is much more problematic than in our camp. Considering all the woes we've seen here that is saying a lot. Maybe FBI stands for Fear Bred Ignorance. Just a guess. WHA? Whining Hopeless Accuser. Just another guess. DOJ? Dunces of Jesting. What do you guys think? Have fun with these idiots and their acronyms I sure am.
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79 comments:
Here's an idea, Kurt.
Why not request that the court serve a subpoena on the Secretary of the Treasury.
If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bullshit.
I remember when the BBB was reported to list the Dorean Group as a scam on their records & in their testimony to the press.
Why if the BBB says it's so, well, who is anyone else to say differently?
Nemo just helped me to understand by his lastest post that maybe BBB-Better Business Bureau, really could stand for "Brilliant, Baffling, Bullshit" or in acronym form, simply BBB.
Here's an idea, maybe the BBB should subpoena Bruce & ask him why he declared bankruptcy, & he can put it in affidavit form in writing, so all his creditors can know the FULL STORY & have that on record & not have to wonder anymore. That way the file & issues could finally be closed and the question would never have to be asked again.
NEO..Never ending obscenity
Here's one of the questions to the potential jury pool:
Have any of you had any training in accounting or law?
(a) What kind of training?
(b) Would that training affect your ability to follow the Court's instructions on the law to be applied in this case?
_________________________________
So there's the real world of law and accounting, and there's the make believe world of accounting & law in the Court.
Makes sense to me! Sounds like the prosecution wants a stupid jury pool. An intelligent jury pool would never convict.
NEO: "Never Ever Open-Minded"
NEO: "Never Ending Obscurity"
Here's another question by the mighty prosecution. Sounds like they didn't pay any money for any special experienced consultant to ask the questions or pick the Jury pool:
"Does anyone on the jury panel have any personal knowledge of THE FACTS on this case?
Is there anyone on the jury panel who could NOT DISREGARD this and render a fair and impartial verdict based solely upon the evidence."
____________________________
Yep, disregard the facts and render a fair verdict!!! LOL
Evidence from the prosecutions mind, THAT THE FACTS DON'T MATTER.
These are the brain questions that will prove Count # 1 to be true. LOL
I think these two questions are proof positive that fear has finally set in at the prosecutions camp. If not fear, maybe premature dementia for sure.
"I'm certain Mr. David Hall and his trusty sidekick Bridget Martin can go through the procedures of a trial but they will never be able to make ANY SENSE of the content. I am so under-whelmed."
_____________________________
Their jury questions THEY WROTE, make no sense, so it follows they can't make any sense of an indictment they DIDN'T WRITE.
"Underwhelmed" may be verbiage too nice for the prosecution team. I'm actually shocked that the 2nd string would take the case over and ask questions like they didn't have enough logic and intelligence skills to even pass the bar exam.
Yea, JUST a two page list of questions for potential jurrors & stupid questions at that. Not much thought went into the prosecutions questions at all.
So the prosecutions admits in their estimation that the case can be heard and be over with in one month, but it takes 2.6 years to get to trial. Sounds like Christmas will come early this year. LOL
Yeah.
You're right.
It WAS a stupid idea.
ORDER DENYING MOTION TO
ISSUE ORDER FOR SERVICE OF
SUBPOENAS
The Court has received a request to serve a subpoena on the Secretary of the Treasury.
This request is hereby denied. The defense has not shown good cause or any cause whatsoever to impose the burden on the Secretary of the Treasury. The motion is DENIED.
Back to the drawing board...maybe another sight draft? Nah. No printer.
LOL
Nemo,judge roy, justice77777;Ya'll begining to see her that Kurt and Scott have been up front since the start of it all.
Man what planet are you from?
You guys are already starting to dribble CROW from your Lips.
I even feel a little bad for you guys; cause all of you are going to be getting Hammered when this is all said and done.
Juries love bullshit, Neo.
I should know.
Nemo: How many REASONABLE denials do you need until you figure it out that their is a conspiracy going on with the government in regards to this trial & the important issues?
All you are doing is proving that their is a CONSPIRACY, but the charge doesn't apply against Kurt & Scott.
The bank fraud charges being dropped should have been YOUR BEST CLUE, but I guess you got your head in the sand still.
Hey, where's judge roy bean???? C,mon your honor, speak up.
Now that the recoveyences are legal and non fraudulent thanks to the bank fraud charges being dropped, doesn't that make the foreclosures that occurred to some Dorean clients illegal? Those banks that did foreclosures will have hell to pay!!!!!!
If the trial actually occurs, will anyone here be able to attend?
The Press can't wait for a Trial!!!!!!!!!
1 Corinthians 4:
5Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
6And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
7For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
Dear Swami, as near the end stated by his comment, there will NOT be a trial. This is WAY too risky for the banks.
I smell restitution, vindication, absolution, exoneration, and deliverance in the air (without prejudice). Don't listen to those who obfuscate all over this blog.
What?
No trial?
7-8 must of sounded pretty good after all.
Hey Taco (tcob)!!!!, Roy Bean!!!!
Where you at!!!!
Oh, there will be a trial and convictions, so start preparing excuses for how the judge was biased for not letting evidence the jury was corrupt, any other excuse to keep the dream alive.
"Oh, there will be a trial and convictions, so start preparing excuses for how the judge was biased for not letting evidence the jury was corrupt, any other excuse to keep the dream alive."
___________________________________
I got a really good question for you ALL KNOWING ONE: Has anything you've said been acurate so far? Why in the hell would we believe anything you say?
Have a great weekend
Another billion dollar bank, "Netbank" bites the dust:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070928/
netbank_closure.html?.v=14
Nemo quotes again: 1 Corinthians 4:
5Therefore judge nothing before the time,
___________________________________
Nemo, don't you know the people of Paul's day were predicting that the 2nd coming of Christ was coming soon & in their day. Many weren't even attending to their workly duties because they figured, why bother. Paul had to straighten them out that the 2nd coming wouldn't be for some time later in the history of the Earth.
That scripture is talking about not judging prematurely the Lord's 2nd coming. It has nothing to do with judging a scam a scam. Lending is a scam pure & simple. Don't "wrest the scriptures to your own destruction".
"No scripture is of private interpretation", but that's what you are good at doing.
1 Corinthians 4:
1So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God. 2Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. 3I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.
neodemes/Bruce WHY DID YOU FILE "BANKRUPTCY"?
I know why cause you don't know how to make it and you don't know how to manage it.
Try not spending so much time on the net and maybe your wife will come back to you.
Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love.
There's nothing you can do that can't be done.
Nothing you can sing that can't be sung.
Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game
It's easy.
There's nothing you can make that can't be made.
No one you can save that can't be saved.
Nothing you can do but you can learn how to be in time
It's easy.
All you need is love, all you need is love,
All you need is love, love, love is all you need.
Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love.
All you need is love, all you need is love,
All you need is love, love, love is all you need.
There's nothing you can know that isn't known.
Nothing you can see that isn't shown.
Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.
It's easy.
All you need is love, all you need is love,
All you need is love, love, love is all you need.
All you need is love (all together now)
All you need is love (everybody)
All you need is love, love, love is all you need.
~John Lennon~
Justice7777777 said...
Oh, there will be a trial and convictions, so start preparing excuses for how the judge was biased for not letting evidence the jury was corrupt, any other excuse to keep the dream alive.
~~~~~~~
There isn't much evidence you can show the jury that will convince of anything. The evidence goes much deeper than any documents K&S had.
"There isn't much evidence..."
"The evidence goes much deeper..."
Huh?
poopoo said...
There isn't much evidence you can show the jury that will convince of anything. The evidence goes much deeper than any documents K&S had.
Maybe you should try to come up with at least a semi-intelligent thought while not taking a "poopoo" and then post it here, because as it stands now, your post makes about as much sense as the duo's defense.
Aside from trying to help homeowners get out of paying their mortgage, what was the reason for a Dorean Group? The reason cannot be found in any documents K&S had. The documents made a lot of allegations as to bank fraud, but in the long run proved nothing. That's what the DOJ is going to try to prove: that DG was frivolous operation, only out to rip people off and harm the bank's business.
The evidence goes much deeper than what can be found in any document K&S created.
Hello All,
Can somebody please post the style, number and location of this case so that I can look it up?
Thanks for your time!
The Warding Eye
...as we come to the end of journey, we had joy, we had fun, we had.....
Goodbye to you my trusted friend
We've known each other since we were nine or ten
Together we climbed hills and trees
Learned of love and A B C's
Skinned our hearts and skinned our knees.
Goodbye my friend it's hard to die
When all the birds are singing in the sky
Now that the spring is in the air
Pretty girls are everywhere
Think of me and I'll be there
We had joy we had fun
We had seasons in the sun
But the hills that we climbed were just seasons
Out of time......
Goodbye Papa please pray for me
I was the black sheep of the family
You tried to teach me right from wrong
Too much wine and too much song
Wonder how I got along.
Goodbye Papa its hard to die
When all the birds are singing in the sky
Now that the spring is in the air
Little children everywhere
When you see them I'll be there.
We had joy we had fun
We had seasons in the sun
But the wine and the song like the seasons
Have all gone.
We had joy we had fun
We had seasons in the sun
But the wine and the song like the seasons
Have all gone.
Goodbye Michelle my little one
You gave me love and helped me find the sun
And every time that I was down
You would always come around
And get my feet back on the ground.
Goodbye Michelle it's hard to die
When all the birds are singing in the sky
Now that the spring is in the air
With the flowers everywhere
I wish that we could both be there
We had joy we had fun
We had seasons in the sun
But the stars we could reach
Were just starfish on the beach
We had joy we had fun
We had seasons in the sun
But the stars we could reach
Were just starfish on the beach
We had joy we had fun
We had seasons in the sun
But the wine and the song like the seasons
Have all gone
All our lives we had fun
We had seasons in the sun
But the hills that we climbed were just seasons
Out of time
Nice song but not a good place to post it dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!
justice7777777 said...
"Oh, there will be a trial and convictions, so start preparing excuses for how the judge was biased for not letting evidence the jury was corrupt, any other excuse to keep the dream alive."
Yeah, just like they were to have gotten life huh justice? Just like they committed bank fraud huh justice? Where are the injured parties (banks) justice? Water must have gotten TOO hot for them to stick around, eh Pacha? I've done numerous Administrative Remedy's/Notarial Protests against them and they all went away, gee, wonder why??? Care to delineate justice? (I know you know) I remember a time when you weren't afraid of anyone, too bad, you were a good ally back then.
Conspiracy to commit what, against public policy/government? Keep dreaming justice...
The Warding eye said...
Hello All,
Can somebody please post the style, number and location of this case so that I can look it up?
Thanks for your time!
The Warding Eye
You have to have a Pacer account to access it on line
http://pacer.psc.uscourts.
gov/register.html
It's under California Northern District Court and can be located by party name
“And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.” (Philippians 1:9-10)
Poo poo said: "That's what the DOJ is going to try to prove: that DG was frivolous operation, only out to rip people off and harm the bank's business."
________________________________
How is a request for a validation of a debt a frivilous operation? It's a legal right afforded by the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act (FDCPA). It's so important that Congress passed this important legislation to protect consumers.
How can it be shown that the Dorean Group's purpose was to rip clients off & harm the banks when the Dorean business plan & the flow chart of the money flow, says differently than your presumptions? That's evidence in the court records by the way, along with the legitimate letter of credit for 150MM that backed the bond for each clients presentment.
If the banks were harmed, why were the bank fraud charges dropped against the Dorean Group, and why is it that not even one lender of 4,000 validated the debt, allowed a bank audit by the dorean group, signed any affidavit whatsoever in reference to the dorean presentment, or even attempted to show any proof whatsoever that a valid loan was given for any client? Why was there not even one honest and good faith attempt BY ANY LENDER to answer the dorean's presentment affidavit of truth, point for point? Any lender could have signed and notorized the affidavit that was given to them in the presentment which is basically what all lenders say anyway how lending works. That in and of itself & the accounting records from even one bank would have been enough to show good faith, and would have been enough to cash the bond.
The idea that the prosecution alleges that the presentment had to be satisfied according to the "unilateral satisfaction" of the Dorean Group is a bunch of "poo poo".Any attempt of good faith would have been enough. As it turns out, the Dorean Group got NOTHING BUT SILENCE & ARROGANCE from the lenders.
Or in the alternative, any lender could have just sent a notarized statement or a letter indicating that none of their money was used in the loan to satisfy the spirit of the presentment by just coming clean and being honest. Not much effort or time by the lender to accomplish that.
Why wouldn't any of the 4000 lenders want to get TWICE the amount of what they claimed was due them anyway for just a little work or simply taking the time to write & sign a letter off their banks letter head & telling one basic truth that the borrower created the value for his loan through the promissory note? That's the truth, why be ashamed of the truth?
All the lenders put themselves in legal default through their silence. There's more bad faith on the part of the lenders than what could ever EVEN be alleged against the Dorean Group. The lenders are the one's that should be on trial here for criminal charges, especially Count # 1 of the indictment that is suppose to be the count that is to bring such great fear to the Dorean Group. LOL
How were the lenders harmed if they risked none of their assets in the loan process? None of the lenders are even willing to sign any affidavit saying they were financially harmed & it doesn't even appear that any lender representatives will even be any of the witnesses in court. Now aren't those two facts kind of disturbing to you if you are even somewhat of a reasonable person? Isn't that enough evidence that you are full of poo pooo yourself?
Poo poo, I think you are just full of s*it! You don't even have a clue. Change your medication, it isn't working for you.
Justice 777 said: "Oh, there will be a trial and convictions, so start preparing excuses for how the judge was biased"
_______________________________
The Judge doesn't render the verdict Justice, the Jury does. We already know the Judge is bias. It's already been said many times. Did you miss that by the many people that have already made this point?
Besides, even if you are correct, don't you think there will be an appeal in appellate court? If unsuccessful there, I'm sure it will be heard in the highest Court of the land. No need to make any excuses, because either the case in District Court now will be dismissed or it's going into "overtime" assuming even a bad result for the Dorean Group, so NO NEED TO MAKE ANY EXCUSES AT THIS TIME because there's already enough excuses & justification to have this go to a higher court based upon even a one count conviction. Don't believe it's coming to that, but don't think for a minute that any excuses are going to be given in the near future. The Dorean Group will be victorous at some point, where & when it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Victory could be sooner than anyone ever thought.
An appeal was already filed & denied by the Appellate Court. It appears the appellate court wants to see a conviction first before they will EVEN CONSIDER A MOTION FOR AN APPEAL. What a joke this Court system is. You show justification that the existing court has violated rights and laws, and you can't even get a hearing consideration in a higher court until the Defendants get a conviction. More bad faith by the courts. That's OK, all of these things add up for more evidence against the Court System's bad faith on the principles of rights and fairness.
frivolous said...
Yeah, just like they were to have gotten life huh justice? Just like they committed bank fraud huh justice? Where are the injured parties (banks) justice? Water must have gotten TOO hot for them to stick around, eh Pacha? I've done numerous Administrative Remedy's/Notarial Protests against them and they all went away, gee, wonder why??? Care to delineate justice? (I know you know) I remember a time when you weren't afraid of anyone, too bad, you were a good ally back then.
Why don't you give us some examples of your "proven successes"? The duo tried to convice people of the same lies you are proclaiming, and look where their "proven successes" got them? You go on to make matters worse by thinking on the same WRONG lines as moogie.
I'm off to enjoy my day with my WIFE and family, so i'll check back later today for the next grasping at straws allegations from the nose bleed section.
Justice7777 said....
Why don't you give us some examples of your "proven successes"? The duo tried to convice people of the same lies you are proclaiming, and look where their "proven successes" got them? You go on to make matters worse by thinking on the same WRONG lines as moogie
___________________________________
Oh boy...here we go again...."Kurt and Scott lied about their proven system" "They preyed on ignorant people" Whaaa Whaaaa Whaaaa. Give it up...That argument died a year and a half ago.
Can you hear that Justice7777?? Can you hear that sound outside your window?? Thats the sound of a few thousands people laughing there butts off at your hillarious posts. Can you hear em laughing at you?
Mogel:
I told you what the prosecution is going to try to prove, despite any Dorean documents. You don't have to believe what I tell you. Wallow in your delusions, Mr. Turd.
habakkuk said...
Oh boy...here we go again...."Kurt and Scott lied about their proven system" "They preyed on ignorant people" Whaaa Whaaaa Whaaaa. Give it up...That argument died a year and a half ago.
Those you speak of that are the people who are "laughing there (their btw) off" are the people who were not damaged by this process. Let me know when the hundreds perhaps thousands show up that either lost their home, got sued, or have/had clouded title because of this.
The only people that won't show up at all are the ones who ended this process successful, so the joke's on you, but enjoy because in approx. 30 days your argument will shift from defending this process to criticizing the judge, prosecution, jury, etc. for convictions. At that point you won't be laughing only defending a "proven"scam.
Justice777 wrote: The only people that won't show up at all are the ones who ended this process successful, so the joke's on you, but enjoy because in approx. 30 days your argument will shift from defending this process to criticizing the judge, prosecution, jury, etc. for convictions. At that point you won't be laughing only defending a "proven" scam.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You have everything backward, Justice777. Dorean wasn't in business to rip people off. They were in business to stop the banks from ripping people off. It just so happens that lawyers, sheriffs and judges all work for the bank. K&S were surrounded by the enemy. They didn't know the enemy well enough, which is why their plans went awry.
As i said before....Why would i believe a word you say since nothing you say has come to pass so far. End of discussion.
BTW, I thought you were out having a picnic with the wife and family....Thats the only worth while idea you've had all day.
"As i said before....Why would i believe a word you say since nothing you say has come to pass so far. End of discussion."
Not quite the end.
Kindly list the Dorean successes for us.
We'll wait.
"K&S were surrounded by the enemy. They didn't know the enemy well enough, which is why their plans went awry."
Not according to all their boasting of God ordained training.
Next excuse?
K&S were surrounded by the enemy. They didn't know the enemy well enough, which is why their plans went awry."
Not according to all their boasting of God ordained training.
Next excuse?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
God never told them not to read the Art of War by Sun Tzu. I guess God never told them to read it either.
mogel007 said...
That's evidence in the court records by the way, along with the legitimate letter of credit for 150MM that backed the bond for each clients presentment. ....
.....If the banks were harmed, why were the bank fraud charges dropped against the Dorean Group,
....................................................................
Can you please show where in the court record the letter of credit has been deemed to be legitimate ?
Once again, from the Julian case:
"The trustees did indeed mail a bond to NBSC. However, this bond allegedly obligates only Kurt Johnson, one of the trustees, to pay the amount due under the mortgage, which he is already obligated to do as the trustee. [FN65] There is no independent surety or guarantor under the bond, and this document, therefore, does not even constitute a surety bond. [FN66] Nobody other than the trustee even signed the "bond." The "Dorean Group," who allegedly issued this bond, even if it is a real entity, is not qualified to issue bonds in South Carolina, [FN67] thus making this document invalid as a bond even if it were signed by a surety. The "bond" does not qualify as a surety bond under S.C. law, because, among other reasons, it is not issued by a South Carolina registered surety and does not even obligate any surety or guarantor other than the trustee, who is liable for his actions in any event. In short, the "bond" is a farce, much like the fraudulent mortgage satisfaction the trustees filed with Lexington County and the claims and defenses the Julians have asserted in an attempt to stall this foreclosure action. "
----------------------------
After this memo went out, the bank were under no obligation to respond.
This is from Treas.gov:
Subject: Illegal Financial Activity; Description: Fictitious Debt Elimination Schemes
Date: October 1, 2003
[...] Please be advised that worthless instruments entitled "Bond for Discharge of Debt," "Bill of Exchange," "Due Bill," "Redemption Certificate," or other similarly titled documents continue to be presented to financial institutions, mortgage companies, credit card issuers, and retail establishments throughout the United States in an effort to eliminate legitimate debts. Many of these schemes are premised on baseless or fraudulent claims against the United States Treasury, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, the Internal Revenue Service, or other federal or state agencies. (See also OCC Alert 2003-7 and OCC Alert 99-10).
Regardless of how such instruments or documents are titled or whether they appear authentic, they are worthless, have no legal validity, and are not payable through the United States Treasury, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Comptroller of the Currency, or any other federal or state agency. The OCC is aware of the following organizations and Web sites promoting these fraudulent schemes:
· America's Advantage
· eliminatemortgages.com
· goodbyemortgages.com
· mortgageelimination.net
· the7thfire.com
· Financial Dynamics
· remedywithredemption.com
The creation and presentment of these fictitious instruments may be a violation of Title 18, Section 514, Fictitious Obligations, or other federal criminal statutes, and any person(s) using such fictitious instruments with the intent to discharge valid debts may be subject to criminal prosecution.
If a fraudulent document such as those described above is presented to your financial institution, do not return it. Instead, retain the document and file a Suspicious Activity Report. Deliver the instrument and a copy of the SAR to the local office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Please direct any questions or provide further information to the attention of the OCC at:
E-mail: occalertresponses@occ.treas.gov Mail: Office of the Comptroller of the Currency Enforcement & Compliance Division, MS 8-10 250 E Street, SW, Washington, DC 20219 Telephone: (202) 874-4800 Fax: (202) 874-5301 Internet: http://www.occ.treas.gov
Don't forget, the conspiracy to commit bank fraud still stands.
An attempt or conspiracy to commit bank fraud is subject to the same criminal penalties as the substantive bank fraud
18 U.S.C. § 1349 provides as follows:
Any person who attempts or conspires to commit any offense under this chapter shall be subject to the same penalties as those prescribed for the offense, the commission of which was the object of the attempt or conspiracy.
Pauligirl said: "Can you please show where in the court record the letter of credit has been deemed to be legitimate ?"
--------------------------------
Can you show me in the court record where it was deemed to be illegitimate WITHOUT ANY OF THE RHETORIC THAT YOU HAVE ALREADY SHOWN?
The references to the Julian case is meaningless. First incorrect statement is here: "this bond allegedly obligates only Kurt Johnson, one of the trustees, to pay the amount due under the mortgage, which he is already obligated to do as the trustee."
The back of the bond had a 2nd page. Course my lender when I asked for the 2nd page of the bond said it didn't exist. They of course lied to me. On the 2nd page it obligates another party, based upon certain conditions, so the Julian court record lied, just like my own lender lied to me.
Notarial Dissent will say something like this, "you can't write a conditional bond."
My response is: Says who and why not?
Just because possibly Julian didn't contest what was put in the court record in his case, doesn't legitimize everything his opponent said either as factual.
The record said: "The "Dorean Group," who allegedly issued this bond, even if it is a real entity, is not qualified to issue bonds in South Carolina,"
Again, isn't it interesting that it was said, "even if it is a real entity,", suggesting that they didn't prove beyond all doubt that the Dorean Group was a fraud or the bond was a fraud."
Also, the record says that the Dorean Group isn't "authorized to issue bonds in South Carolina".
OK, maybe that's true, but is that relevant? No it isn't relevant at all. You don't need a license to issue a "subrogation bond".
Let's go to the Legal Dictionary:
Subrogation: "The substitution of another person in the place of the creditor to whose rights he [the other person] succeeds in relation to the debt; one's payment or assumption of an obligation for which another is primarily liable."
McClintock, Equity 123 (2d ed. 1948).
"This doctrine is NOT DEPENDENT UPON CONTRACT, nor upon privity between the parties; it is the creature of equity, and is founded upon principles of natural justice...Subrogation has been generally classified as being either legal or conventional. Legal subrogation arises BY OPERATION OF LAW where one having a liability, or right, or a fiduciary relation in the premises, pays a debt due by anhother under such circumstances that another under such circumstances that he is in equity entitled to the securitry or obligation held by the creditor whom he has paid. Conventional subrogation, on the other hand, arises where by express or IMPLIED AGREEMENT with the debtor, a person advancing money to discharge a prior lien might be substituted to the security of the prior lienee."
18 S.E. 2d 917, 920.
In other words, we are talking rights here ALREADY RECOGNIZED BY THE LAW. We aren't talking the NEED TO OBTAIN A LICENSE & PAY A FEE in order to conduct business.
Isn't it like the opposition to BRING UP IRRLEVANT ASSUMPTIONS TO COME TO A WRONGFUL CONCLUSION. VERY TYPICAL.
You also indicated that the banks weren't obligated to respond once that specific memo you referred to went out?
First of all, "The Dorean Group" ISN'T EVEN ON THE LIST in this memo.
Second of all, the memo says, "worthless instruments". You are assuming that the Dorean subrogation bond should be classed in the same class as "worthless instruments". As I said previously, the Dorean Group wasn't even in business in 2003 so it COULDN'T be referring to the Dorean Group anyway.
Your best clue that this memo doesn't apply to a subrogation bond is this statement:
"Regardless of how such instruments or documents are titled or whether they appear authentic, they are worthless, have no legal validity, and are NOT PAYABLE THROUGH THE UNITED STATES TREASURY, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Comptroller of the Currency, or any other federal or state agency."
The subrogation bond didn't say it was payable through the United States Treasury, so why even insinuate that this memo had anything to do with the Dorean subrogation bond?
Again to compare this memo with the Dorean SUBROGATION bond is to clearly not read what the memo is really saying & not recognizing that this memo had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DOREAN SUBROGATION BOND.
Again, let's read this memo further:
"The creation and presentment of these fictitious instruments MAY be a violation of Title 18, Section 514,"
How clever to say that the instruments you referred to MAY be in violation. That doesn't mean that they ARE IN VIOLATION EITHER.
Also notice the Title, "Fictitious Debt Elimination". It would seem to me if there is ficitious debt elimination programs that it wouldn't apply to "legitimate debt elimination programs". So again, the memo is irrelevant.
Another stupid excuse that the opposition uses is that the Dorean Group was not licensed. You don't need a license to conduct business. You don't need a license to enter into contracts. You don't even need to be incorporated to do business either. It's an inalienable right to enter into contracts and to contract freely. To say that the Dorean Group is violating the law since they didn't apply for some special license is also a crock. There IS NO government "license" that is required or even issued for "mortgage challenges" or for a "mortgage debt elimination program" as some have termed it.
Is it illegal to operate under a D/B/A (Doing Business As) company? Not it is not.
You only get a license & pay a fee when you are seeking out a privilege from the government that is regulated.
Pauligirl, there is too many holes in the propaganda that you so readily accept.
Pauligirl said: "Don't forget, the conspiracy to commit bank fraud still stands."
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Kind of reminds me when I had a neighbor next door that threatened to turn me into the authorities for "conspiracy to commit ATTEMPTED MANSLAUGHTER".
Mind you, my neighbor thought that I was in a conspiracy because I allowed my renters to have a dog. This dog jumped over the fence & wanted to be friendly with the neighbors children. Mind you it was a friendly dog, the dog didn't even lick the child, let alone touch the child & never had a history of hurting any human, much less a child.
If my neighbor can prove that I'm in a conspiracy to commit attempted manslaughter, than I'll buy your logic that conspiracy to commit bank fraud might have a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding for the prosecution.
"Attempted manslaughter". No such charge on the books.
Conspiracy to commit bank fraud. No such charge either when there is no bank fraud possible with no real victims testifying. LOL
Maybe you might have a better chance of proving "insurance fraud" or that Kurt & Scott were fugitives?????? You know those were the original charges that were FEARED SO MUCH that were so justifiable, it gave legitimacy to the arrest of the Dorean Group. And to think the basis for the original arrest was never proven or shown. LOL
check yo lastest wurld bullsh** riports fo new potsing.
mogel007 said...
Pauligirl said: "Can you please show where in the court record the letter of credit has been deemed to be legitimate ?"
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Can you show me in the court record where it was deemed to be illegitimate WITHOUT ANY OF THE RHETORIC THAT YOU HAVE ALREADY SHOWN?
It's YOUR claim that it's legitimate so it's up to you to prove it. I showed you what the court said
But, just in the interest of fair play, here's what the North Carolina Attorney General had to say about the bond:
Subrogation and Security Bond. A copy of a purported "bond" is either filed with the "Notice of Intent to Correct Title" or is sent directly to the lender. This "bond" is purportedly an offer to the lender to satisfy the
homeowner's indebtedness. On its face, defendant Kurt Johnson pledges himself as the only security for this "bond." On information and belief,
defendant Johnson has posted these "bonds" with full knowledge that he lacks sufficient assets to pay off the bonds, and the bonds are bogus.
As to the memo, it was giving examples of debt elimination schemes and telling banks what to do with the bonds. It really doesn't matter that DG was not specifically named, as it's the same MO.
As to the rest, this has nothing to do with your idiot neighbor.
Now, we just play wait and see.
Nemo said: "Kindly list the Dorean successes for us."
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One of their successes has got to be capturing your attention and interest and your previous time for these many years. To capture your attention and to keep it, just shows they have something pretty special. LOL
Pauligirl said: "Nobody other than the trustee even signed the "bond."
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Come to think of it, no one other than the alleged borrower signed the mortgage agreement. Does that mean that the lending agreement is illegal & void or false by the same logic?
Must all agreements by more than one party to the agreement be signed BY ALL PARTIES in order to be enforceable & valid?
Hey if that's so, there is no bank fraud, there is no conspiracy to commit bank fraud, & we can all go home.
If you are going to set a standard, let's make it enforceable or unenforceable among all parties, whatever that legal standard is.
Pauligirl said: "It's YOUR claim that it's legitimate so it's up to you to prove it."
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It won't work that way in the trial. It's up to the prosecution to prove fraud & prove all of the charges. If they say the subrogation bond is illegitimate, again, it will be up to the prosecution to prove such to show any conspiracy.
Pauligirl continues: On information and belief,
defendant Johnson has posted these "bonds" with full knowledge that he lacks sufficient assets to pay off the bonds, and the bonds are bogus.
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On information and belief?
Is the opposition claiming that they don't have enough information so they can only state a belief instead of a fact?
"Johnson has posted these bonds with full knowledge he lacks sufficient assets to pay the bonds & the bonds are bogus".
Again, this is a statement presupposing that Johnson would have to cough up all the money to pay a claim. Is that statement true? Again, it's another IRRELEVANT ASSUMPTION. Who is saying that the money would come from Johnson? Subrogation is assuming or taking over a debt or obligation. It is the business of the person taking over that debt how it gets paid or how the agreement is honored.
Again, prove that the bonds are bogus. Show me some affidavit where someone is willing to testify under oath that shows that the trust company doesn't have the sufficient amount of assets to pay out a single claim.
"If you are going to set a standard, let's make it enforceable or unenforceable among all parties, whatever that legal standard is."
EXACTLY
"Again, prove that the bonds are bogus. Show me some affidavit where someone is willing to testify under oath that shows that the trust company doesn't have the sufficient amount of assets to pay out a single claim."
THEY CANT
"Reasonable Doubt" is one of the many friends that the Defendants have.
Sounds like the opposition has a bunch of "information and belief" & "supposition" and no facts to be afraid of.
OJ Simpson got away with murder according to many. There was no shortage of evidence, but EVEN ALL THAT wasn't totally sufficient to convict him in the criminal trial.
What evidence does the prosecution have in the Dorean trial if any? Who are the witnesses that are going to give such earth shattering testimony & what are they going to say?
Oh that's right. Those things are part of the 15 "sealed court documents" that are suppose to cause such great fear. Let's not allow the public to know this at all that has been sealed to create even more fear & confusion. LOL
As to the memo, it was giving examples of debt elimination schemes and telling banks what to do with the bonds. It really doesn't matter that DG was not specifically named, as it's the same MO.
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You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but an opinion, just isn't going to convict the Dorean Group & give them life.
Nemo or Pauligirl: Speaking of successes, maybe you would like to list all of the successes that the Office of the Comptroller of Currency has had to date since 2003 in indicting & imprisoning & sentencing those involved in "debt elimination" that specifically used a bond or a "fictitious instrument"?
North Carolina AG said: .... "and the bonds are bogus."
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Maybe the North Carolina AG should have filed a charge of passing "ficitious instrument" charges then or should have referred the case to the Office of the Comptroller of Currency to do something about it? Makes you wonder why he didn't do that or why that is not one of the charges in the 68 count indictment if it is so true and carries so much weight and evidence that these bonds are bogus.
Oh that's right, the prosecution forgot to do that & file that specific charge. LOL
moogie sez: "You don't need a license to conduct business"
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On what planet?
Commercial Business License Filing Procedure & Information
All persons doing business (to engage in an activity in the pursuit of gain other than employment) in the City of Union City must complete a Business License Application and supplemental forms. Certain approvals, permits, or clearances may be required for particular businesses by other city departments, county, state, or federal agencies before a Business Tax Certificate is issued. The staff in the Business Licensing Department will refer you to the appropriate agencies before accepting your declaration and fees.
Fictitious Business Name
You must file a petition with the Alameda County Recorder's Office (Fictitious Business Name section) if your business name is invented or fictitious.
http://www.union-city.ca.us/admin/business_license.htm
Just a couple of examples.
Anyway, your boys will hang themselves as soon as they open their mouths and start spewing sovereign gibberish...its inevitable...they won't be able to stop themselves.
Counting down - 14
“Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.” (Matthew 5:11-12)
I have a question; I lost my house to foreclosure, that being the case. Since the bank for closured on my house, would that make what they did illegal? Would we the people that did lose our houses have recourse against the banks?
Praise be to God said...
I have a question; I lost my house to foreclosure, that being the case. Since the bank for closured on my house, would that make what they did illegal? Would we the people that did lose our houses have recourse against the banks?
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Sorry to hear of your problem.
Was this in connection to Dorean, or other unusual circumstances?
Counting down...
13
"Was this in connection to Dorean or other unusual circumstances?"
I'm sure its all Kurts fault.
"Sometimes I wonder wether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it"..Mark Twain
Welcome to the modern day Weimar Republic. In the Weimar Republic liquidity was provided at a massive rate to escape war reparations. Today liquidity will be pumped at a unprecedented rates to off set the melt down in derivatives hidden from every ones view. The dollar is heading to .7200,5600 and maybe .5200 as measured by the USDX.ITS CALLED INFLATION.The cost of all items scince 2001 is up 145%,includes energy, cars and food.How is everyones cash flow? Neo, any problems in that area?
Liquidity is the grease of the wheels of the equity market, USA's last wealth effect. In the Weimar case the equity market went on to infinity and the currency to worthless, then imploded on itself. To blame this rolling crisis on subprime loans is ludicrous and the mother of all spin.Prayer is a great tool, but not for those who know what they are doing. The shock of Greenspans new book, which I believe discredits him, is that he always knew the destruction his acts would visit upon the world.
No it had nothing to do with Kurt and Scott. In fact they are one of the reasons I found the lord my God. It had nothing to do with them. It’s a very long story and I don't wish to tell it. I find it very hard that people would lose there houses over 3000.00. If they had that money, they would have paid maybe 3 house payment and they just would have lost their houses at a later date. I have faith that God will make all things right. He has all my life.
Haven’t you heard that song, it not what you take with you it's what you leave behind. I plan to teach my children to love God and anything is possible.
God Bless you all
We can add one more thing to the ever growing list of things Mooney doesn’t know anythig about, insurance law.
The so called “Bonds” did not, and never met the legal requirement to be what they purported to be, and so by definition and fact were and are bogus.
In order to act as a surety and issue a bond or “assurance” as these purported to do, the company issuing them would have had to have been licensed by the state they were issued in. This is a requirement of all fifty states. Each state has their own insurance commission and laws, but they are all pretty much the same and they all require adherence. Neither the so called issuer of the bond, or Dorean was licensed to transact business in any of the states they did so that was the first tell tale. The so called insurer of the “Bonds” is not licensed or registered anywhere it was attempting to do business, which would be necessary for them to have been valid, and then there is still the matter of the front company being a paper shell to begin with. These facts alone are enough to deem, and in fact guarantee the “Bonds” to be bogus and worthless.
Secondly the bond issuer would have had to have bound themselves liable in the matter for there to have been an assurance/insurance given, this never happened. The documents Dorean issued were signed only by Kurt, and worded to make him only personally liable, so again no bond.
Get your stories straight Moogs.
Sorry noto get your facts straight you are wrong again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rear end blathered forth and said nothing of consequence as usual.
If you have proof that either Dorean or First Mutual were ever licensed to do any kind of business of any kind anywhere in the US, by all means please do so, otherwise please return to the bottom of your rock.
I DO; and your wrong again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
near the end said...
I DO; and your wrong again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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All talk...no substance...as usual.
Neo why did you file BANKRUPTCY?
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