We are now two weeks from trial and the prosecution is meeting with witnesses every day. Most of these witnesses are clients of Dorean. The prosecution and the FBI are hired investigators in theory but truth is the last standard they observe. Our trial has now come down to no bank victims and just clients coming in to reverse engineer some possible threat of equity to the now absent victims. They will be asking you questions like did you get a loan from the bank? This is a question you will all probably volunteer an answer to though it is impossible for you to know until it is proven. Just because you received a wire and/or check is not evidence. What if I give you money out of a ponzi scheme that is really yours but you have been told it came from investment income? Does the check or money validate itself or is the accounting the truth? What they won't ask you is the questions of relevant facts. Did you create a promissory note? Are you the maker of this asset? Did you ever knowingly sell, transfer, assign, gift your interest in that asset to another party? Did you authorize the deposit created by this asset upon the books of the alleged lender to be sold, transferred, assigned, gifted to anyone? Are you certain that the alleged lender was forthright in their business dealing with you? Did they ever inform you that what they did with your asset is a trade secret and that you are not allowed to know?
Now I don't care whether you come in and lie, conspire with the government or any other evil. I told you long ago you were irrelevant to my strategies and it has to be that way because your ignorance would be dangerous to you and me if it was any other way. What puzzles me is why you wouldn't take advantage of this opportunity for your own personal growth. Question the investigators and see if they have validated your loan. Isn't this what you hired me to do? Has your goal changed or have you been convinced by all the fraud a loan existed? You will quickly see that with all the power and money these professional investigators could put towards this question they have not done the work in over two years. I suspect this is intentional! They will offer you opinion freely which is all they invested in obtaining it. Nowhere in the court processes civil or criminal or my dealing with the prosecution have they ever proven any validation of the debt. What I posted in the governments affirmations was my last attempt to verify whether these investigators were remotely honest or moron sucklings on the government teat. I'll bet not one of you used this opportunity to investigate your asset's handling, market value, or location? If you are ever wondering why you always end up on the short end of the deal here is a great example. Yes I'm here preserving your rights, title, and interest but you don't understand your own wealth? Will you ever take the responsibility for yourself and your family or will it always be the burden of someone else you can blame?
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65 comments:
The following question is directed to Kurt, Dr Fred, or someone in the know. (That means not NEODEMES, PAULIGIRL,JUSTICE,OR Judge Bean - I could care less what you uninvested idiots think!!!!!) Please explain to me how the banks that foreclosed on Dorean clients are not in violation of the law since the bank fraud charges have been dropped? Why are we not all calling and giving our banks total hell for their fraud of not recognizing the reconveyence? I need to know before I start calling my bank and giving them hell!!!!!!!!
Great question swami
There is none so blind as he who will not see.
“Boast not thyself of tomorrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth.” (Proverbs 27:1)
Well...I recently put my house back into my name so I could do a refi. The title company did the title search and the records showed no lien by anyone especially my mortgage company. So in their words my house was free and clear.
Now the dilemma. Go forward with the refi less paying off current mortgage or proceed and go after them later.
After consulting several people I got these two options.
One, go for it. there are no claims, liens or anyone in first position. House is free and clear.
The next one a lawyer agreed, except as he said I still owe the mortgage company the remainder of the note because I signed a promissory note. Do I ask the mortgage company for the original promissory note and if not signed by them (are they signed) then go after them?
So my house is free and clear. But I still owe.
Your thoughts people......
sopsback said...
trail has been moved to Jan. 15, 2008....
And you know this how . . . ?
OK, so sopsback removed his post about trial being moved to January, or at least SOMEONE removed it. SICK.
jesuslovesthelittlechildren, wow, if you're gullible enough to believe anything that Sopbackmountain posts, then you must be gullible enough to believe you actually received a valid loan from the banks...PATHETIC
I lost my house and I believe it has allready been sold to someone else. what would we do than? Does anyone no?
This was sent to me after my discussion with this person about what I posted earlier. This person lost his home in the non-process.
_____________________________________
What a c...suker!!
He (all of DG) fail to realize that they don't sell truth and justice. They sell a dream of a home free & clear and no mortgage payments. I'm sure they try to sell it as the former but for the layman who doesn't truly understand what is going on, they only hear the latter. How dare he ask such chastising questions at the end of this post? If he truly wanted people to dig deeply into the ins and outs of what the banking industry is up, then he should have been providing "required reading" and a true game plan for each individual client of theirs. He should have been telling you step by step what would be coming about of each and every move they made, instead of doing stupid things like sending you a deed with no directions when it was really supposed to go to the other attorney, and not letting you know that "Hey! Mr. Homeowner! Your loan with XYZ is no longer attached to your property!" instead of you finding out on accident like you did and then providing no answers as to what you need to do next other than "Call your lawyer.". To that response, I say "And tell him what?". That would've been helpful to know.
He took you all skydiving. He chartered the plane and stocked it full of the necessary supplies. Got all of you up in the air and told you to jump. He didn't tell you to put on the back pack with the chute in it or what to do while your free falling or when to pull the shoot or how to fall or really anything related to you not getting squashed when you hit the ground.
jdjd. As someone who has served on juries and has been a jury foreman and demonstrated restraint to prejudice and studied the subject at great length,I await your or any one elses opinion based on fact that this is all theory, gibberish and or blind idiocy.
To the alleged swami - for the most part, the "banks" who made the loans originally didn't foreclose on the clients. Once the loans were originated and then securitized through a REMIC into a trust (as most are), the "bank" (originator) is no longer a party. They're off onto the next batch of new loans.
The servicers acting on behalf of the trustees for the holders of the notes are the ones who have local law firms file foreclosure suits in states that have judicial foreclosure. Not all do. In some states they don't have to file suit.
What a few people still refuse to realize is that the Dorean presentment/reconveyance has been ruled a legal nullity in a Federal civil trial. None of the dead-tired, worn out financial mythology flim-flam works folks. The Dorean lipstick didn't change the fact that it was still a pig.
Nothing that happens in Kurt and Scott's criminal trial will affect clients' ownership of their homes. Including if they're somehow acquitted and released. In order to "save" a client's home from foreclosure based on the Dorean program, they'd still have to mount an appeal to the 9th circuit on the civil case and win it in order to make the Dorean process legit.
Unless or until someone (Kurt and Scott and/or the families that got burned) successfully appeal the Federal civil case that Dorean LOST, the scheme is an illegal scam and the companies they sent the packages to don't have to do anything (except perhaps turn them over to the prosecutors). In fact, until that happens, when and if a servicer sues a client in a state court, all the servicers have to do is cite the current Federal civil case ruling and it's summary judgment time.
So swami, go ahead and call your loan servicer. Better yet, do it in writing. Maybe that will give them the evidence to show you're still trying to perpetrate a known scam because of your own ignorance.
Otherwise, if you need to do something, the Federal court set up a processes to extricate your interest (not free and clear title) in the property from the bogus trust without getting Kurt or Scott's signatures. You'll have to have an attorney file a motion in the California Northern District Federal Court. You'll have to formally serve everyone that may have had an interest in the property and they'll have to affirm they don't object to it. After a few weeks you'll be back to square one. At least you'll be able to sell or refinance your house. Dozens of clients have done that already and the list gets longer every week. For those with interest rate adjustments coming down the pike, it may be the only way to keep the house because until that trust is off the records, no lender or title company will touch it.
Just as Kurt has said, this is "legal opinion", not the facts based on truth.
OK Judge,.....If it's a "scam", why did the FEDS drop the bank fraud charges. Your former arguements come to a screeching halt since the FEDS did this.
swami, they could drop all the charges and it wouldn't affect the civil case that declared it as a scam.
Think about it rationally for a minute.
The criminal court (and it's even the same Judge in this case) can't act on behalf of either of the parties in a prior civil action.
The losing party in the civil trial, (in this case the defense - Kurt and Scott) will have to move to reopen (unlikely given their erratic and utterly bizarre legal maneuvering) or appeal that ruling to the 9th circuit.
There's plenty of case law that will preclude even the 9th circuit from turning the lumps of coal into diamonds.
If you're still mired in the program, get competent (and real) legal advice before you get caught up in a foreclosure or bankruptcy.
The US financial system is teetering. The US dollar is losing global support, with some outright revolts in crucial territories.The chief private sector export from the US financial has been fraud ridden asset backed bonds and their toxic derivatives (your so called mortgage agreement),what should any one expect. For years institutional dishonesty within all things financial in the US has been engrained, spreading and become intergrated within high levels of US Govt. The wall street hucksters have exported the fraud, and now international backlash via boycotts are preliminary of bigger events to come.
So why is it not one of you have addressed my issue?
stillwaiting 3. Were you waiting for a personal invitation? Did you attend any conferences, meet the principles, study on line,read your mortgage agreement,study your black law dictionary?Watch the DVD?etc etc.
If not,you got what you puy into it.
Ah Yetter, I take it you don't believe that the system is corrupt.
Nothing to read at the time. What personal invitation? Or is that just you being a smart ass? What conferences? As for the principles - no. Others from our group did and reported back what they knew. I have read my mortgage agreement, studied the law and as a mortgage broker (at the time) I realized then that the paperwork was flawed and asked the lawyer who was doing the settlement. He agreed.
What is written the law books is only what they want the bar to know.
And as for getting what I bought into. I was told they had completed the process - successfully.
Try not to be an ass. All this time on this blog and it never gives a straight answer just bull.
The straight answer is as you have stated.
"I was told they had completed the process - successfully."
Therein lies the rub.
THANK YOU JUDGE. At last a clear simple explanation untainted by the juvenile, name-calling drivel so often exhibited by some of the regular posters. We'll see if it gets through to the true believers, but I'm not holding my breath.
stillwaiting 3. Thanks for the advice. In my most kind demeanor, if you received a full reconveyance, Dorean did their job.If its bull ,thats a personal decision.
Define "full re-conveyance"
So I'll ask the question again. If my house is "free and clear" does that mean that the note is $0.00?
Stillwaiting3 - this isn't legal advice and there are any number of state ramifications.
When the title company did their search they probably did it before they came to know about the bogus Dorean process.
Again, this isn't legal advice, but even if the lien was removed, the note that it secured wasn't extinguished or paid off.
They are two different things. The note is your promise to pay and the lien is simply the thing that says if you don't pay off the note, you can't sell or transfer the property until they release it.
The Dorean scam was an attempt to remove the lien with a bogus self-executing nonsense presentment. Therefore if it had slipped through without being recognized for what it is, the lien might have been removed and the next lender wouldn't know you hadn't actually paid off the note.
But the law doesn't always just flow downstream. When frauds are perpetrated and mistakes are made, there is remedy through the courts to restore order.
In your situation, and again, this isn't legal advice, YOUR interest in the property may APPEAR to be free and clear FOR NOW, but the debt may not have been extinguished and thus, the trustee still has an interest in re-perfecting the lien to once again ensure your obligation.
One of these days, someone will dig into the pile of papers on their desk and find your file. Once they see the Dorean trustee names they'll say "here's another one of those," and hand it off to the legal department.
Depending on how aggressive they are and if and how far behind you might be on the payments, you'll find out rather abruptly what their policy is in dealing with debt-elimination scams.
No one should assume the servicing and title industries aren't keeping up on debt elimination schemes. They have their own private forums and information sharing sites.
JRB... thanks for the info and the explanation.
The"Judge"Is assuming.The trustees have not been convicted or found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of anything.
I hate to say I told you so, . . . but there you are.
Yetter said...
The"Judge"Is assuming.The trustees have not been convicted or found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of anything.
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Once again, the so-called process HAS been ruled to have no basis in law, in civil court.
Not only are you continuing to beat a dead horse, you don't have the sense to climb off of the rotting carcass.
The countdown continues...
11
NEO Whats that smell.
Yetter said...
NEO Whats that smell.
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Like I said chum(p)...
Not only are you continuing to beat a dead horse, you don't have the sense to climb off of the rotting carcass.
hth
NEO. Like I said, WHATS THAT SMELL
Your olfactory difficulties are not my problem.
stillwaiting3, what JRB told you is all true, what he didn't emphasize is the fact that the note and the trust deed still exist, and are still valid and enforceable, whether the title company found it or not, they do make mistakes, and when they do it costs them money, but when the mistakes are the result of fraud, they tend to get very nasty at anyone involved, and in this case that would be you since you were the primary beneficiary of the fraud, which could end in state felony fraud charges being filed against you if anything happens. To put it bluntly you are not in a good situation. You need to make very sure that the title to your property is clean or it will cause problems, and the title company needs to be aware of anything that could affect the title.
The straight answer is as you have stated.
"I was told they had completed the process - successfully."
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The process is never complete until you have been to court. After court you have the Sheriff to contend with. Scottie did not anticipate they would take him to court where the bank rarely loses because of the corruption. Again, they underestimated the enemy.
Nemo I bet I can beat you up.
Lets get in a boxing ring with gloves comeon it will be fun.
poopoo said...
Scottie did not anticipate they would take him to court where the bank rarely loses because of the corruption. Again, they underestimated the enemy.
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Odd. I thought the whole point WAS to end up in court...
near the end
Unfortunately, I don't know where to find you...yet.
PM me
http://real-estate-investors-resource.com/forum/privmsg.php?folder=inbox
As skinny as you are I'd win in the 1st 30 seconds. I don't PM only BM.
Hey Yetter :
I think we found it!
near the end said...
As skinny as you are I'd win in the 1st 30 seconds. I don't PM only BM.
________________________________
Spoken like a true anonymous coward.
Snivel on!
SHIT MAN BURN IN HELL JOHNSON.
WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO GET INDITED IN THE DOREAN GROUP SCAM . i AM A SUPERIOR CON MAN TO YOU.
I RIPED OFF 150 VICTIMS AND MADE $450,000 TAX FREE FROM THEM WITH DOREAN FROM WWW.FREEDOMANDTRUST.COM.
I COULD COP A DEAL AND TURN EVIDENCE AGAINST JOHNSON.
FUCK YOU JOHNSON- BURN IN HELL WHITE TRASH
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10
Hey Bruce you say that like I care!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SNIFF SNIFF!!!!!!!!!!!!! HEE HEE HA HA.
Hey Merklinger1 your momma must be proud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Neo. We are so proud of your progress. Here is the FBI tip line. 1-800-376-5991, for those who need to help in the cause of justice.
Thanks, but just let me know when the rest of those charges have been dropped.
I'll wait.
You will be the second to know.
SOP. Congratulations. Your the undisputed heavy weight champ of blah.
One of the promoters of similar bond redemption nonsense was just convicted by a jury in Oregon. Even the much-vaunted expert testimony of Walker Todd didn't save Buhtz or his almost-as-whacky scamming partner. The jury saw through the nonsense and convicted him on most of the counts.
Buhtz will be sentenced in December.
Unintelligible gibberish and legal mythology as promoted by Johnson, Buhtz, etc., will go on and on as long as gullible people can be led into paying to learn how to do things by inherently untrustworthy people who sell the alleged how-to secrets.
This isn't legal advice, but while the sycophants and former brokers like Byron Gashler (mogel) and the other childish posters here try to make financial issues sound interesting and conspiratorial, anyone who is still participating in this kind of thing needs REAL, local legal advice, unless of course they don't care what house they and their family are living in in the coming months.
Anything else just makes it easy for the predatory servicers who know how and WILL press their legal advantage when you have equity they can come after and they find you hooked up with crooks like Johnson and Heineman.
The sad part is some clients might have a valid case against a lender or servicer. There are hundreds of thousands of loans out there that were uttterly bogus, especially in the subprime realm. But if you fell in with the Dorean process to solve the problem, you're trying to use a scam to thwart a scam. That doesn't work. The legal term is "unlcean hands." You can't get away with stealing from John Doe just beacuse John Doe's brother stole from Jane Smith. The law doesn't work that way.
Again, if you can afford to keep up with the payments and want to keep living there, you need competent legal counsel if you need to sell or refinance. If you can't afford it, get REAL legal advice before you find the local sheriff, constable or process server knocking on your door with summonses or worse.
You got conned by the Dorean Group. Yes, that's hard to swallow. But you're still being conned by the alleged author of this blog or more likely, someone he feeds his drivel to and a tiny handful of obnoxious, ignorant nuts.
The religious fog Johnson is trying to foist on you needs to be seen for what it is - simple ego gratification by someone who wants to paint himself as a martyr. He is nothing more than a self-agrandizing, greedy promoter of crap from long ago that he figured could be re-worked into a new flavor the average person wouldn't recognize as snake oil.
His crack team was nothing but crackpots who contributed to the aura of authenticity.
When you're trying to explain to your children why you're having to pack up and move from the house they have known as a home, you'll probably discover lying to them or other family members isn't easy. You're probaly wired differently than scam artists. It may be hard for you to make up lies on the fly to tell your family. Then again, in the case of people like Gashler, they've found a conventient way to live with being morally bankrupt - just ignore reality and hide behind disproven mythology. A lie isn't a lie as long as just you really believe it, right, Byron?
But telling your kids and family the truth, that you got taken in by a scam will be better for them, and you, in the long run.
They need to know there are and will always be, people like Kurt Johnson and Scott Heineman.
I'll take Heineman,Johnson over your bs anyday.
Sounds like Judge Roy Bean is giving LEGAL advice here.
Are you an Attorney judge or just a wanna be?
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8
A caged tiger grows more irritated when you corner it.
oksurewhynott said...
A caged tiger grows more irritated when you corner it.
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It oughta be mighty cranky come 10/14 or so.
LOL
countdown continues...
7
near the end said...
countdown continues...
7
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Good job.
Thankyou my little Bald Headed Buddy!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Judge said: " they could drop all the charges and it wouldn't affect the civil case that declared it as a scam."
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Do you think that once all the criminal charges are dropped, that Judge Alsup is safe in his fantasy rulings that supposedly declared the Dorean Process a scam?
No, he's the next one going down, big time!!!!!!! Judge Alsup deserves to be financially bankrupt since he's bankrupty of all reason and justice. The Civil cases are still open & are definitely reverseable due to Judge Alsup's fraud & improper rulings.
Judge Idiot said: "they could drop all the charges and it wouldn't affect the civil case that declared it as a scam."
_________________________________
In other words, according to the Judge, it is a scam BASED UPON NOTHING, no reason, no law. That is why Judge Alsup's civil rulings CAN'T STAND ON THEIR OWN.
Judge Beanhead doesn't want to discuss why the dorean process is a scam, Judge Bean, wants to discuss everything else that isn't relevant to the heart of the issue.
jUDGE SAID: "No one should assume the servicing and title industries aren't keeping up on debt elimination schemes".
Next statement: "Therefore if it had slipped through WITHOUT BEING RECOGNIZED, the lien might have been removed and the next lender wouldn't know you hadn't actually paid off the note.
_______________________________
Judge Beanhead can't even make up his mind what he believes. Either the lenders are keeping up with the documents or they aren't? Which is it?
The fact of the matter is, the lien was removed when Scott signed the deed of reconveyance or discharge of mortgage. If there is no fraud in the criminal trial against the Defendants that CAN BE PROVEN, than Scott signing as an authorized agent for the bank MUST STAND FOREVER.
If lenders & title companies are REALLY KEEPING UP WITH THINGS, it is a very simple thing to check signatures. After all, all major title companies have been made aware of the names of Scott Heineman & Kurt F. Johnson.
Once all criminal charges have been dropped, do you really think any lender is going to cause any more legal actions towards any Dorean clients????? I doubt that especially since no fraud WAS EVER PROVEN ONCE KURT & SCOTT GO FREE. How can the process be a scam, if there is no criminal charges that CAN EVER BE PROVEN? Come on, even a retard can answer that question without skirting the facts.
Again, if there is no fraud in the dorean process, all the paperwork filed MUST STAND & must be legally recognized.
The only reason why the lenders had the balls to go after Dorean clients & foreclose on their homes, is because they always thought they could count on the courts to back their illegal activities.
Once it is proven that no criminal charges can be filed against any past participants of the Dorean Process & be MADE TO STICK, than at that time, that expectation of counting on the courts to justify the lenders bad behaviour can no longer be counted upon.
Nemo: Did the carcass start to rot AFTER all 26 bank fraud charges were dropped? Or did the rotting start before then?
Did the rotting start before or after the State of Utah dropped all of their BOGUS charges. If those charges in Utah aren't officially dropped, they need to be officially dropped in writing due to the statute of limitations & time to bring those Utah charges to trial timely WHICH HASN'T BEEN DONE. Or I suppose the Utah courts can violate their own rules & do whatever they want & bring more shame to them too.
If the process was such a dead horse, the Dorean process wouldn't have had any of those victories, or do you want to totally be unfair & discount everything & only accentuate whatever you vainly choose to as is your usual MO.
Notarial Dissent said: "but when the mistakes are the result of fraud, they tend to get very nasty at anyone involved, and in this case that would be you since you were the primary beneficiary of the fraud, which could end in state felony fraud charges being filed against you."
________________________________
When Kurt & Scott go free unharmed & free with no sentence, THEN THERE IS NO FRAUD possible that can be proven by being a participant of the dorean process & the clients don't have to worry about any more possible scenarios.
What part of NO FRAUD, DO YOU NOT GET?
So no, Judge Beanhead is wrong in his assessment as you are too.
There can't even be any conspiracy when there is no underlying bank fraud either, by being a participant in the process.
When the prosecution dropped all of the bank fraud charges, they admitted that the process has legitimacy.
In the very beginning when the Dorean Process started their business, everyone will remember that the banks cried that the Dorean Group MAY BE committing bank fraud by their process, but for the longest time, nothing was done about the lenders opinions in ANY criminal courts & no one was being convicted for these claims of "bank fraud" until Scott was arrested, & even Scott wasn't even arrested for alleged bank fraud, it was other bogus LIKE INSURANCE FRAUD & BEING A FUGITIVE.
Notice, how even the Courts AREN'T saying that anymore because factually speaking, THERE IS NO BANK FRAUD by the dorean process.
And Nemo, calls this "beating a dead horse" even after this great victory. Nemo, you're a dead horse, & you're the one that needs to be beaten for being a worthless ass fighting a righteous cause, and I mean that in the nicest way when I call you an ass.
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