Tuesday, October 09, 2007

Black Out

Well the time has come to put away diplomacy and to unsheathe our weapons of war. I'm only talking to the few of you who understand. Our weapons are not carnal, II Corinthians 10:3-5, "Indeed, we live as human beings, but we do not wage war according to human standard, for the weapons of warfare are not merely human, but they have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle raised up against the knowledge of God, and we take every thought captive to obey Christ." The battle rages in our minds. The disciples when in peril on the sea woke the Lord who rebuked the wind and calmed the storm. A great miracle for sure that had them transfixed but also distracted from the question he asked, "Why are you afraid, why such little faith?" "Why" has been the question I have posed to your hearts all during this long drawn out battle. Do you really think the weapons of a moribund institution and a wicked coward are a threat? If you do, your faith is not the faith of Christ. Every kind of reprobate, faithless, self-righteous prig have displayed their thoughts on this blog and revealed their hearts. Don't concern yourself with them. Their misery is their existence and you will not be spending eternity with them or any of their ilk. We are about to cross that line where God chooses between His inheritance and the wicked. Let us all now put on the garments of praise for the spirit of heaviness, let us shod our feet with the true gospel. Let us bring down the strongholds with prayer. This is what you need to do. I am going to wield my weapons and not return them to rest until our foes are vanquished and I can lead you to your spoils. Did you really think God would trust His plans to the imbecilic faith you read on here among the retards? No tit is our faith and trust in a God who rest during our great storms that always prevails. Awe inspiring miracles or not I have a job to do as do you. Now let's do it! You go to prayer, fasting, and praise and I will courageously do what I have been equipped to do. Yes I was called for such a time as this. This is my last blog for a while. Call it a strategic warfare black out. All of you have your orders and assignments. The enemy who studies our communication will enter the critical moment of battle blind, deaf, and dumb. I'm proud of all of you and know your support was essential for my success. Enough of words, let's go kick some ass!

I'll end with a quote from the Apocalypse of Baruch 5:2-3, "And the Lord said unto me, My name and My glory have an eternal duration; My judgment, moreover, will preserve its rights in its own time. And thou wilt see with thy eyes that the enemy will not overthrow..."

Inside the quotes II Corinthians 10:3-5
"Indeed, we live as human beings, but we do not wage war according to human standard, for the weapons of warfare are not merely human, but they have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle raised up against the knowledge of God, and we take every thought captive to obey Christ."

220 comments:

1 – 200 of 220   Newer›   Newest»
neodemes said...

Christ IS victorious.

However, you may be surprised to find that that has nothing whatsoever to do with mortgage elimination schemes.

Blessings all around and good luck to you.

Countdown continues... 3

jdjd said...

Uh,oh, Neo. Looks like the prosecution's in for it now, huh?
Unsheathed Weapons of War AND the Silent Treatment. Wow.

Semper Fi said...

Let the battle begin!

Time to launch a counter-offensive with speed, accuracy, and Spirit-de-God...

Oooo-rah!

sopsback said...

BALCK OUT!



i hipe taht yo got yo batrees reddy an yo falshlite.


it gonna be dark fo a whilst.


but dun wooory, the sun be come up soon.

when it do, by sum gold b4 the dolla crash to zero.

yo can get sum cheep fo a good price on dbay.

habakkuk said...

Christ IS victorious.

However, you may be surprised to find that that has nothing whatsoever to do with mortgage elimination schemes.

___________________________________

Then why dont you explain where Yeshua kicked the money changers out of the temple...and by the way he was pretty ticked off when he was doing it. Why dont you explain the many scriptures where G-d says "Woe" to those who knowinglly commit fraud and slander the innocent. Why dont you go read what G-d thinks about all that stuff....He is just as upset with that than he is with murder, or theft, etc.

Heres an idea....WHY DONT YOU ACTUALLY READ YOUR BIBLE. YOu cut and paste a lot of scriptures but do you know what they say???? Its a discrace that you defend this worldly system and kick the guys who stand for what the Bible says. YOu are counting down the days til the trial but you should be the one worried about a final countdwon.

Let me give yu a little John the Baptist...Are you ready????

REPENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! REPENT, because you know the truth and yet you still do and say the same things. REPENT!!!!!!!!

sopsback said...

REPENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! REPENT


fo yo redemtion groweth nigh!




and like i say, don forget to redemtion some of yoo doolars and by sum gold.

neodemes said...

habakkuk said...

Why dont you explain the many scriptures where G-d says "Woe" to those who knowinglly commit fraud and slander the innocent.

**************************
Careful...that could bite your boys on the butt, big time.
**************************

habakkuk said...

Why dont you go read what G-d thinks about all that stuff....He is just as upset with that than he is with murder, or theft, etc.

**************************

And, yet, folks get away with both in this world all the time.

God knows the hearts of bankers, Kurt, Scott, you, me, even moogie.

The fact that there will be judgement for us all has no bearing whatsoever on the outcome of the trial.

Are you seeking justice?

Be careful what you ask for.

Yetter said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sopsback said...

God knows the hearts of bankers and bakers and candy makers....



and 1 thing i no....


GODs WILL BE DONE!!!




so what yo all r rellly ag yooing about is if its GODs will that the dg be successful??

i think yo alreddy no that answer.....



he alreddy prounced that judment eons ago; now it just a matter of time for the rest of the "earthly bee-ins" to find out.


but, for doze with HS wisdom, we alraidy no the anser.

sopsback said...

btw, gold is nocking at $750.00 per oz.


when yo get yo dg $$$$ it mite be smot fo yo to buy up a few undered ozzez of it ands sum silva too!


ans if yo got sum spare cahnge rite now, go an by sum NMCX stox.


$15 per share assay and it only costs $0.007 per share.


like belly brawl say...."yo will get rich on this one"

neodemes said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
neodemes said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
neodemes said...

Satan is the author of confusion.

SOP's posts are intentionally confusing.

HS or SS??

No brainer.

Get thee behind me.

sopsback said...

neodemes said...

Satan is the author of confusion.

SOP's posts are intentionally confusing.

HS or SS??

No brainer.

Get thee behind me.






yo better hipe so....lest yo rong and you blaspheme the HS, and then like they say...

"nobody can get you out"

sopsback said...

like belly brawl say...."yo will get rich on this one"




and that y i am still plying HYIPs games.....



lololololol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

poopoo said...

FBI just told me they didn't me as a witness. Am I surprised?? Kurt, where are your witnesses???????????????????????????????????????????
They told me the trial starts Monday, Kurt. Where are your witnessess???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

JDJD said...

Only witnessing being done on Defense side is by Kurt. And frankly, it doesn't seem to be very effective.

JDJD said...

Or relevant.

poopoo said...

Only witnessing being done on Defense side is by Kurt. And frankly, it doesn't seem to be very effective._____________________

No witnesses on behalf of the defense?????? What's up with that?????

neodemes said...

Kurt said...

I'll end with a quote from the Apocalypse of Baruch 5:2-3, "And the Lord said unto me, My name and My glory have an eternal duration; My judgment, moreover, will preserve its rights in its own time. And thou wilt see with thy eyes that the enemy will not overthrow..."

***********************************

Finish the quote, Kurt.

And thou wilt see with thy eyes that the enemy will not overthrow Zion, nor burn Jerusalem, but be subservient to the judge for a time.

sopsback said...

poopoo said...



"aw.......sh*t!!



ollolololololloooooooooooooool!

sopsback said...

"The prostitution calls its first winless....


"Will Mr. Bonnie Faff pleeze take the strand...."


Please leef yo gun with none bullet in it with the baylift...


"Now, Mr. Faff, isnt it true that yo got a lone from Frist Ratinal bank of Rawlee???


an how much was taht lone fo??


"wail, let me see now...I think it was for 2 hunderd dollers...no, make it...no, i was wrong the first tahm...it was fro 2 henderd doolas....


Objection, yo dishonor...mr. faff cant seem to make up his mind, i meen his story, mr. faff is full of bullsh*t...like the jibroney for the prostitution of this kase....

JDJD said...

Pooh:
I was talking about a different kind of witnessing.
But if no one can support Kurt's side of the case while telling the truth under oath, there may very well NOT be any witnesses at the trial to speak on the duo's behalf.
Wouldn't surprise me a bit.
But then there's the matter of the mighty Unsheathed Weapons of War; which I suspect may simply be more of Kurt's verbiage and pitifully sad bravado.

sopsback said...

sopsback said...

neodemes said...

Satan is the author of confusion.

SOP's posts are intentionally confusing.

HS or SS??

No brainer.

Get thee behind me.




sopsback said...

yo better hipe so....lest yo rong and you blaspheme the HS, and then like they say...

"nobody can get you out"

------------------------


neo,


now you know that i try to have some fun and intentionally misspell and use grammatically poor sentence structure also on purpose to try and keep things light around this blog, and having said this.....

i didnt mean to be harsh on you, (in the above restated post) BUT, like yeshua said, you MAY say anything that you like about me personaly....you can call be dumb, stupid, fat, ugly, etc., etc.,

BUT, i take my commission of the Holy Spirit VERY SERIOUSLY, as should you if you are a REAL christian.

so, i will always remind you and anyone else, that mocking the HS IS A VERY SERIOUS OFFENSE.

yeshua said, as i am sure that you are aware, that there is ONLY one sin which WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN

*BLASPHEMING THE HOLY SPIRIT*


which means saying that one who claims possession of the HS is attributed to possesion of some OTHER spirit.

and it MUST be that way, as then it would allow good to be called evil, and evil to be called good, as we unfortunately have in todays society.


so a word to the wise to choose your words very carefully when addressing ANYONE in this area, specifically calling someone satan who claims to be a christian, becasue in essence YOU are calling yeshua satan, becasue a christian by virute of the HS represents yeshua JUST AS IF you were addressing yeshua right in front of you.


this message is intended to
give you wisdom and , yes, TO SCARE YOU as well, as FEAR OF THE LORD IS THE BEGINNING OF WISDOM, as you already well know.


PEACE OF THE HS BE WITH YOU ALWAYS.....

neodemes said...

SOP

How about letting the HS led side continue to speak clearly and lose the psuedo-sop, as it has no real value?

Your posts might actually stick around a while.

Blessings.

neodemes said...

Countdown continues...

2

sopsback said...

neodemes said...

SOP

How about letting the HS led side continue to speak clearly and lose the psuedo-sop, as it has no real value?

Your posts might actually stick around a while.

Blessings.

----------------------


i dont understand??

are you looking for religious instruction???


if not, then this is not a religious blog, is it???


so, if its not a religious blog, then whats the point??


every post here is far from serious, so whats the porblem with what i post??


deleting them does not really bother me, as you have seen, so........??????


as far as the HS speaking clearly, unless its for wisdom, i dont really tink that the HS has much to say one way or the other about mortage/bnaking fraud issues.

His will be done; its a foregone conclusion, whether or not if be FOR or AGAINST the verdict.


i will agree with your view of the dg in one point, which you have never claimed on this blog, that i have ever seen at least.


as important as a dg victory was, it is still only a piece of the puzzle for gods plan.

it is not the be all and end all.

it will allow some to continue into the future where they can do gods will also, where they might not have been able to without debt relief.


in the scheme of the whole prophecy, there is no ONE issue, NOR ONE PERSON(S) THAT IS INDESPENSIBLE TO GODs PLAN, MYSELF INCLUDED ALONG WITH YOURSELF, K, S, MOGLE, DR. F, ETC. ETC

if k&s didnt do what they did, then it woould have been someone else for sure, but one way, the other, it would of got done.

and if it werent you as the antagonist, it would of been somenone else too.

and if sop, it would of been aesop or somenone else....


god alsways has backup plans and nooone and nothing is indespensible to accomplhishing His plan.


if satan cant stop, what mere mortal could possibly???

sopsback said...

.....god also knows all the same user ids who play different parts for good show... ;-)

sopsback said...

"...they are forever STUDYING, yet NEVER coming to the knowledge of the TRUTH."


yes, they study their bibles endlessly, but they never seem to get it....they go to church religiously EVERY sunday, and yet once they walk out the church door, one would never know that they were christian unless they told you....they go to church EVERY sunday and once outside the door violate almost every command of a true christian....they judge others, as if they were sinless....they preach against sin from pulpits without examining themselves for sin....they will quote you unlimited amounts of bible verses, and yet have very little HS wisdom, as if who could quote more bible verses is "more of a christian" (lol!)....so by default, the pastor must be "more christian" than them all, becasue he has obviously made a lifes work of learning bible verses, but can hardly apply more than one or two, but tells you that you should apply hundreds...yes, these WILL be held to HIGHER ACCOUNT for all their false teachings, yet i will leave their judgement to god.


studying forever without coming to knowledge of the truth....or in easier to understand verbiage, coming to knowledge of the HS and His Power....


"...a form of godliness, yet they DENY its POWER"


waht pwer are they talking about here....you already know....


the POWER OF THE HS

which all pastors deny, becasue if they didnt, they woould know better and not call themselves "pastors", unless they call the "laity" (other christians) pastors also.


instead of reading the bible, they might as well be reading people magazine, for they would get as much out it....



the nicolaitans....whom god HATES.....

mogel007 said...

"And thou wilt see with thy eyes that the enemy will not overthrow Zion, nor burn Jerusalem, but be subservient to the judge for a time."
__________________________________

Nemo: It's still a relevant scripture to the subject matter because ZION is where "the pure in heart dwell" or the place for "God's people". I have always said that the dorean cause is a righteous cause for God's people.

Of course we are seeking "justice". That is what we have been seeking all along for the dorean cause. I see no problem with asking for that unless you have a warped sense of justice.

Nemo, I agree with you, God has nothing to do with "schemes"; the dorean cause is not a scheme, even if you call it such; it doesn't make it true.

neodemes said...

Moogie sez:

"I have always said that the dorean cause is a righteous cause for God's people....even if you call it such; it doesn't make it true."

sopsback said...

nemo,


by the way, why yo want to deny others the dg program and hope it fails, posts on this blaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhg say that yo alreddy did yo own dg plan by filling bankupsy??

did yo???

if so, then y not let everynone eat???

sopsback said...

when my hypes payout, i gonna come ova to yo blaaaaagh and get some reel state form there.


seem like they a lot of 4closhers one can by.....



have yo ever herd of john stefanchik?????


he was a mortage guy to.

neodemes said...

Proverbs 16:
22Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it: but the instruction of fools is folly.

23The heart of the wise teacheth his mouth, and addeth learning to his lips

sopsback said...

neodemes said...

Proverbs 16:

22Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it:

but the instruction of fools is folly.






c'mon nemo, dont be sooo hard on yoslef....


lolololol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sopsback said...

true or false:


there are only 2 chruches;

the heavenly invisible church (of which I belong) and the earthly visible incorporated 501(c) "church" which meets every sunday in various buildings



of the earthly chruches, there is only one true church; the roman catholic chruch.



1.) T

2.) T



why????? use sum of yo HS wisdom to figger it out...

some of yo will think taht i am advocating joining the RC churhc, I AM NOT, but nonetheless, it is the only true earthly chruch if yo must belong to one to feel (incorrectly) that you are serving yeshua.


-------------------------

hal truner is now blaming jews for all the problems we are facing.


my ?? to hal is, can you separate between the real jews and the "jews who say they are jews, but are of the synagogue of satan??"

if yo cannot, then yo will get yoself in trubble

true, if yo can figger out which jews are from the "SoS" then yo could solve some of these problems, but yo cannot, can yo?????

Richard said...

May God be with you Kurt and Scott!
In the meanwhile I'll continue to make my mortgage payments. For those of you who continue to critize Kurt you can take a well needed rest too. While you despisers are resting don't forget to pay your mortgage payments too! Just curious though, when Kurt and Scott wins and eliminates our mortgages, are you going to have the integrity to not accept Kurt eliminatings your mortgages because of your beliefs? Or are you going to beg them to forgive you so you too can have financial freedom? Humm what do ya wanna bet the later will be your choice?
God Bless Kurt and Scott!
Rich-Colorado Springs

neodemes said...

"when Kurt and Scott wins and eliminates our mortgages"

Dream on.

CD soon to be 1.

sopsback said...

why is the Rc chruch the only true "eartly" chruch.


first, becasue the bible says that it will be the only false chruch standing in the end times, with the real christians raptured away.


secondly, because its a false church, its really a govt. in disguise, with its hierarchy just like the real govts of the world.

thus, it will retrun to the form of govt. when emperor constantine of rome declared the govt. to be christian.

also, to be fair about it, roman catlicks have some good qualities that they dont realize that they even have.

altho the church is a false church, most roman catlicks are very humble people and not "puffed up"

most are very lowly, which in gods eyes is good

most dont:

meet someone new, and immediately start quoting scriptures to them, no matter how condescending this really is, as considering that the other person is most likely a christian too.

again, those in protestant chruches are falsely taught, altho they would not admit to this, that the person who knows the most verses is the most "christian"

roman catlicks dont:

alwasy pointing out sin in ohters, again all protestant chruchs make this their exclusive domain to point out sin.

yes, there are some good qualities that roman catlicks peeple have, not the chruch as the chruch is definitley a false one with theri worhsip of false saints, statues, and mary as a goddess

its the people that i am talking about.

catlicks also dont go around thinkg that they msut convert everyone either.

all protestant chruchs do this, also wrongly.

by their "conversion" they mean to "come and join the only true chruch" THEIRS

even at the expense of other protestant churches, theirs is the only one with the true gospel.


what a joke!!!


thats why the only true chruch to belong to is the invisible one

the church of philadelphia in the book of revelation, also know as the church of all true believers

sopsback said...

all protestant chruchs do this, also wrongly.

by their "conversion" they mean to "come and join the only true chruch" THEIRS

-------------------


born a catlick, when i figgered out it was a falso chruch, i knew that i had to leave it.

so, after a long jurney to many chruhes, all to find out, that they are a falso ones.

i joined...presbyterian chruchs, baptist chruchs, bible "fundamental" (not!) churches, etc., etc.


pull the pastor aside, and aks him about the other protestant chruchs, he will tell yo...


"no, the baptist/presbyterian/fundamental chruch is no good becasue....


"our chruch is better/best than the baptist/presbyterian/fundamental chruch becasue...."


WAIT A MINUTE! arent these all protestant chruchs taht you are talking aoubt???

this makes NO sense!!!

are these all christian chruches that we are talking bout here???


so how/why is YOURS better, pastor????



ANS: ITS NOT!!!!!!


so, at this point, you reelize that they are all false churches.

sopsback said...

just keep seeking the truth, (going to different churches) and like the bible says, you will find it. (no true biblical churches in existence today since 313 AD when roman constatnine merged chruch and state)


when yo thinkg yo found it and just sit on yo *ss, that when you lost it.

sopsback said...

(no true biblical churches in existence today since 313 AD when roman constatnine merged chruch and state)

no true **heavenly** chruches...since 313 AD

sopsback said...

*********BREAKING********



just before trial, a poster formely known on the dg blog as SOP goes on religious rampage....



loolololololool!!!!!!!!!

alex merklinger said...

TIME TO DIE JOHNSON. STOP HIDING BEHIND THAT JESUS BULLSHIT, NO IDLE IS GOING TO HELP YOU THIS WEEK, I KNOW CAUSE I AM GUILTY ONLY I WAS SMART AND OUTFOXED THE LAW. TIME TO SOAP UP WITH THE DARKIES AND MEXOZ FOR LIFE DOREAN GROUPIES.
ALEX MYSTERIES OF YOUR CONED MIND

neodemes said...

“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.” (Romans 12:2)

JDJD said...

Curiouser and curiouser ...

sopsback said...

The poster known as SOP will be going on SOPpatical for the next week beginning on Monday, 10/15.

He has matters to attend to.


Enjoy a SOPless blog for the week.

Peace of HS be with you.

sopsback said...

$100 Billion Plan

To Avert Crunch

Fund Seeks to Prevent

Mortgage-Debt Selloff;

Advice From Treasury

By Carrick Mollenkamp, Ian McDonald,

and Deborah Solomon

The Wall Street Journal

Saturday, October 13, 2007

In a far-reaching response to the global credit crisis, Citigroup Inc. and other big banks are discussing a plan to pool together and financially back as much as $100 billion in shaky mortgage securities and other investments.

The banks met three weeks ago in Washington at the Treasury Department, which convened the talks and is playing a central advisory role, people familiar with the situation said. The meeting was hosted by Treasury's undersecretary for domestic finance, Robert Steel, a former Goldman Sachs Group Inc. official and the top domestic finance adviser to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. The Federal Reserve has been kept informed but has left the active role to the Treasury.

The new fund is designed to stave off what Citigroup and others see as a threat to the financial markets worldwide: the danger that dozens of huge bank-affiliated funds will be forced to unload billions of dollars in mortgage-backed securities and other assets, driving down their prices in a fire sale. That could force big write-offs by banks, brokerages, and hedge funds that own similar investments and would have to mark them down to the new, lower market prices.

The ultimate fear: If banks need to write down more assets or are forced to take assets onto their books, that could set off a broader credit crunch and hurt the economy. It could make it tough for homeowners and businesses to get loans. Efforts so far by central banks to alleviate the credit crunch that has been roiling markets since the summer haven't fully calmed investors, leading to the extraordinary move to bring together the banks.

In recent weeks, investors have grown concerned about the size of bank-affiliated funds that have invested huge sums in securities tied to shaky U.S. subprime mortgages and other assets. Citigroup, the world's biggest bank by market value, has drawn special scrutiny because it is the largest player in this market.

Citigroup has nearly $100 billion in seven affiliated structured investment vehicles, or SIVs. Globally, SIVs had $400 billion in assets as of Aug. 28, according to Moody's.

Such vehicles are formally independent of the banks that create them. They issue their own short-term debt, usually at relatively low interest rates reflecting their high credit rating. The vehicles use the money to buy higher-yielding longer-term assets such as securities tied to mortgages or receivables from midsize businesses seeking to raise cash.

Many SIVs had trouble rolling over their short-term debt in August because of concerns about the quality of their assets. That contributed to the broader seizing up of credit markets.

The Financial Services Authority, the United Kingdom's markets regulator, has suggested that U.K. banks consider participating in the plan, a person familiar with the situation said. HSBC Holdings PLC, the largest U.K. bank, has an affiliate SIV called Cullinan Finance Ltd. with $35 billion in senior debt. An HSBC representative wasn't immediately available to comment.

If the banks agree, the plan could be announced as early as Monday, people familiar with the matter said. Citigroup announces third-quarter earnings Monday.



The tentative name for the fund is Master-Liquidity Enhancement Conduit, or M-LEC.

(sop-seems like a good way to hide the name of their god- "THOU SHALT NOT PASS BABIES THRU THE FIRE TO MOLECH" /M'LECH)


The plan is encountering resistance from some big banks. They argue that Citigroup is asking others to help bail out its affiliates and an industry-wide bailout isn't needed. Citigroup bankers created the first SIV in the late 1980s in London.

The new fund represents a way for Citigroup and other banks to "outlast the current market conditions that are so dry right now," says Jaime Peters, an analyst at Morningstar Inc.

Traditional buyers of debt issued by SIVs include money-market mutual funds, municipalities, and other risk-averse investors attracted by the high credit rating of the vehicles.

By providing a receptacle for assets backed by subprime mortgages and other creations of Wall Street, the SIVs contributed to the big expansion of credit in recent years whose aftereffects are now roiling the economy.

The Citigroup plan would create a "superconduit," a fund backed by some of the world's biggest banks that would issue short-term debt and serve as a buyer of assets currently held by SIVs affiliated with the participating banks.

According to the people familiar with the plan, these assets include securities tied to U.S. mortgages as well as debt pools called collateralized debt obligations.

Because the superconduit would be backed by the big banks themselves, it's expected this would reassure investors and make them more willing to buy its short-term debt, or commercial paper.

The Citigroup proposal recalls the 1998 bailout of huge hedge fund Long Term Capital Management, which was reeling from bad bets on currencies and other investments. Seven big banks and investment banks, prodded by the Fed, banded together and prevented LTCM from collapsing.

Two banks in the discussions with Citigroup, Bank of America Corp., and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., would participate not because they have SIVs -- they don't -- but because they would earn fees for helping arrange the superconduit, according to people briefed on the discussions. The superconduit's debt would be fully backed by participating banks, they said.

One supporter of the effort is Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, who decided to assemble the banks after conversations with businesspeople who expressed concern about SIVs and their impact on the economy, said a person familiar with the matter.

It's the second time in two months that U.S. authorities helped arrange for financial institutions to discuss steps to avert a credit crisis. In mid-August, at the request of the New York Fed, financial leaders met with Fed officials who explained the Fed's steps to open up the supply of cash to the nation's banks.

The new plan would be challenging to pull off. Bank-affiliated SIVs selling assets into the superconduit will have to agree on how to price those assets. Some SIVs may value the securities differently. There have been several meetings since the initial Sunday meeting, both at Treasury and in New York.

For Citigroup Chief Executive Charles Prince, solving the bank's SIV is the latest fire that he needs to put out. Mr. Prince, under pressure to raise the bank's lagging performance, recently said third-quarter earnings would fall 60% from year-earlier levels owing to the August meltdown in global credit markets. Some investors and analysts have called for Mr. Prince's ouster.

SIVs are purposely kept off the balance sheets of the banks to which they are affiliated. One reason for this is that banks want to keep down the amount of assets on their balance sheets to reduce the amount of capital that regulations require them to keep.

Because SIVs are off the balance sheet, it is difficult for investors to size up the financial risks they pose. Off-balance-sheet liabilities played a major role in the 2001 collapse of Enron Corp., and the makers of accounting rules have generally sought to get affiliated entities back on the balance sheets of the companies creating them.

---

neodemes said...

Countdown continues...1

neodemes said...

FLASH BACK:

Open Court

I have openly stated that I think Judge Alsup is a political hack, that Judge Brazil is a Jury tamperer, that Matthew Ernst is a coward and serf, and that the US attorney’s office is a political ass kissing organization. I wanted to take the time here to explain my comments. My first exposure to Judge Alsup was when we used an attorney to bring a civil complaint against some banks. The attorney was sanctioned for bringing arguments before the court which were already settled as a matter of law. We did not know this nor were these arguments the basis of our business model. Seeing the courts behavior we elected to dismiss all our cases and to revisit the strategy. At the court’s own motion the Judge reopened all the cases to insert an opinion that was based on merely presupposition and the idea collected from the internet interpreted by the bank’s laywer. I offered explanation to which Judge Alsup recommended I be silent since he was going to refer me for criminal prosecution. How do you deal with this kind of nonsense? When I realized that his opinion was for the shear political effect and for the purpose of commercial contamination so they could put me out of business then I understood the Judge was misusing his office for a political agenda. This type of man is a coward and needs to lose the very office he has no respect for. His grand idea didn’t come to pass to no surprise because the man thought his imagination of the facts was fact. After the search and seizure warrants collected all our documents facts were now in their possession that clearly showed Judge Alsup did know his ass from a hole in the ground when it came to banking or business. Now that they have found that I have been honorable in all my affairs do you think they would quit? NO! That would be the right thing to do but not what a hack would do. Now he appears again with a civil charge to put me out of business with the same old rhetoric of criminal conduct as his basis. Come on Judge if you have any nuts under that dress put your money where your mouth is. I will even help you bring me to trial as a crook. You and I both know you can’t do it because even with your corrupt machine there is too much evidence in the public record which you can’t control that contradicts your presumption.

Time to find out, eh Kurt?

neodemes said...

...0

Let the games begin!

frivolous said...

"It's a Gamble

Trial is set for October 15th, can you believe it? Ask yourself if you were the banking industry that would go to almost any length to retain their fraud, would you gamble? If you think about Mr. Alsup's role in this game he went overboard to try and hide Dorean from the public venue. That was the whole point about the sanctions and criminal referral. Now all of a sudden he's ready to give us a forum. I don't think so. If you read the trial memorandum you'll see this case is full of risk for the puppet-masters and their dirty little secret. Would you place economic retards as sentinels to protect a multi-trillion dollar fraud? Come on people these guys don't gamble. They are used to control at the highest magnitude. Now what will happen when a certain date must arrive judicially but must never arrive economically or politically? This environment is ideal for the retards to devour each other. These few weeks will be very interesting. Don't worry, we have a plan for any situation that can arise. This is where the patience of God pays off. Leopards don't change their spots its been said. Bankers don't gamble is its equivalent. I'm ready to play the cards I'm dealt as the bluff continues."


"Staying Power (September 7, 2007)

...I think God wants us to be strong and enduring. To have a little staying power while He proves Himself strong. How have you faired on this equation? Do you see yourself as one not turned out by every circumstantial twist? Well hang in there peace is rapidly approaching us sent on the fastest steeds of heaven. God's decree is urgently seeking us out and time is now our friend. Ask the Lord to increase your faith and not to diminish your trial. Staying power is what its all about and in the end your enemies will fail for all the reasons you prevailed. See you at the end of this conspiracy."

"Fireside Sale

...Again I want to encourage you to find the promise in our suffering. A blessing is headed your way you could not have obtained through any other fashion. We had to go into the belly of the beast and you had to squirm about in your foolishness until God could correct your vision, calibrate your hope, and lead you to victory. We were never in any danger and all your fears were false."


"Kurt Gets Life

...I'm not going to get life and you're not going to get ripped off. I'm going to give life and you're going to get blessed. I say it in advance because I have superior will of which I'm tethered taking me and you to the future."

Judge Roy Bean said...

Richard - what part of the outcome of Kurt and Scott's criminal trial will change the outcome of the prior civil trial that ruled the process a scam?

Judges are the triers of law and the jury is the trier of fact.

The law questions won't make much headway; those statutes have been around a long time and can be supported with case law.

The only question is did they do what the prosecution said they did?

Will the jury believe them or the prosecution?

And nothing about the outcome of this week's trial will make any difference in your mortgage.

If they're acquitted, they'd still have to mount a challenge to the Kenney civil case in order to get the ruling reversed. They'd have to appeal to the 9th circuit and although the 9th is known for some, shall we say, unusual rulings, they're not brain dead.

And of course, if they're convicted, they yet another issue if they did find someone to appeal. It's called the doctrine of unclean hands.

Again, I'd suggest anyone still trapped in the program get some local legal advice.

mogel007 said...

Judge says: "It's called the doctrine of unclean hands."
________________________________

That goes two ways you know. The lenders already have "unclean hands" & now the prosecution team is carrying on their cause. How clean is that?

Courttime said...

Dorean MO #9
Make everything a biblical issue. Distort the bible. Quote it out of context and mix up the meanings. It must be true, it's from "the bible"

Courttime said...

Dorean MO #10
Confuse, confuse, confuse

Courttime said...

Dorean MO #11
Write a blog for 2 years so the prosecution can figure you out.

Courttime said...

Dorean MO #12
Repeat the story enough times so that even you believe it. That way you don't have to lie about it.

neodemes said...

Dorean MO #12a
Repeat the story enough times so that even you believe it.

Have moogie vouch for it.

Courttime said...

Dorean MO #13
Never admit when your wrong. (It's not possible anyway)

neodemes said...

Jury selection completed, I hear.

Bring on the testimony.

follow the trial said...

For those who may not know. You can get some information on the trial at the web site below.

http://www.quatloos.com/qforum/viewtopic.php?t=1527

neodemes said...

Here is a clickable link:

http://www.quatloos.com/qforum/viewtopic.php?t=1527

Sure is quiet around here, though.

Its kind of like being the last living cell in a dead body.

Nice echo, now, though. Great for doo-wop.

Yetter said...

Gunners mate.Need somthing to do?Your accomplished at counting.
Day three of 22

notorial dissent said...

Well gee Moogs, you have me all disappointed, here it is already DAY 2 going on DAY 3 of the trial and dim and dimmer not only haven’t been acquitted, dismissed, or let loose, and hey, the trial you swore would never happened is in full swing even despite the latest efforts of the dim duo, or pony tail and the blob and they shall hence forth be affectionately known as.

You remember all those charges you swore were going to be dismissed, and since there was nothing left they’d have to drop the charges, did you read the comment from the judge that if he accepted a guilty plea on all charges, that they would be in jail for 800 years, doesn’t sound like the case is going away now does it.??????????

The Flea is going to sing his little tale of woe tomorrow, and send them further down the river of no return and then somewhere along the way your idol Walker Todd is going to either get up and perjure himself, or tell the truth about the fraud he has been perpetrating all these years, either way it will only sink them further.

So gee Moogs, tell me again how the DOJ doesn’t have a case when the total time for what is left of the charges adds up to 800 years, I really would like to hear your excuse for this, you’re always so inventive when you get caught out.

neodemes said...

ND, I think moogster has about played out all his "isn't it possible that" scenarios.

All he has left is to whimper about are unclean hands and conspiracies.

frivolous said...

"Yetter said...

Gunners mate. Need something to do? Your accomplished at counting. Day three of 22"

Is that defined as court days, business days, or contiguous days?

BTW, what is the court "day" schedule, M-F from here until the end?

frivolous said...

IF Todd Walker (ex. Federal Reserve) is being called as a witness for the prosecution, how in the hell can he be taken seriously after the many years of supporting people like... Kurt and Scott??? That just doesn't make logical sense eh Pacha? Instead, why don't they bring in someone who CURRENTLY works for the Federal Reserve as an expert witness (on the record of course) as opposed to an ex. who has been labeled "loquacious" and/or "frivolous?"

Wouldn't this be the MOST OPPORTUNE time to put all this alleged "bank fraud" to rest FOREVER by ACTUALLY bringing the banker(s) et al into the court room and have them testify under oath WITH said evidence which PROVES once and for all the VALIDITY of the lending process? I mean look, it's pretty OBVIOUS that the judiciary is the protective vail for the banks and no sane judge would allow said testimony least he be put to rest, BUT, then you wouldn't have all these "alleged crackpots" bringing these bank fraud claims up every two or three years. Would the REAL damaged parties please stand up?

neodemes said...

Good point.

I'm sure that the crack team of K&S has that covered and have subpoenaed all the right banksters to testify to their dastardly deeds under oath.

TheWill said...

Neo

It almost doesn't matter what you say. It is always a sucking sound!

You always espouse JC as your victor but of course you personally have done nothing!

When will you learn to stand up? A rhetorical question because you've proved your dependence on ???. You just ride along not making waves but have nerve to use JC as your victor.

I am not Christian and think that I could derive more credibility than you!

How fat are you from the blood that you drink from others? You really have nothing to offer. You have not a question of justice in you bones.

Oh, I forgot leaches and ameba's have no bones anyway!

It matters what happens to K&S i.e. they go to jail or not. I will say this though and frivolous put it correctly. The system will not allow such a truth to come out, but you best believe that many of us will continue the fight for this financial injustice in this way and others.

But even you Neo will get back to God to be judged as an ameba!

TheWill said...

Vote Ron Paul

neodemes said...

Thanks for the input thewill.

Have a nice day.

:-)

P.S. - Jesus loves you.

neodemes said...

“The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant. Mine eyes are ever toward the LORD; for he shall pluck my feet out of the net.” (Psalm 25:14-15)

neodemes said...

neodemes said...

I'm sure that the crack team of K&S has that covered and have subpoenaed all the right banksters to testify to their dastardly deeds under oath.

----------------------------------

Well...almost...

Motion to Compel

~~The Swami~~~ said...

"800 Years....... For What??????"
It looks like the trial is an absolute joke. Number one, it looks to me like they are mentioning things that shouldn't be brought up in the trial since the bank fraud charges were dropped. Number two, you can find anyone and I mean anyone that is upset at somebody. I challenge that Wal Mart, Lexus, and Dell computer have people unhappy with their performance as well. Just because some idiot didn't like their Lexus, doesn't mean that Lexus sucks. Out of 5000 Dorean clients, I say the percentage unhappy with Dorean rivals the same customer satisfaction rate as Lexus, Wal Mart, and Dell. We have child molesters having a field day, illegal aliens killing our cops, oil companies getting filthy rich off of us, and here we are wasting our damn time on this stupid trial just because some "innocent" banks can't answer a presentment. Yes Neo and frivolous......we too would love the bankers to take the stand, but they won't - hence the bank fraud charges being dropped because NOT ONE banker would take the stand. Just like a murder trial ..........why doesn't the murderer take the stand...........because they're guilty!!!!!!!!

neodemes said...

Swami: "we too would love the bankers to take the stand, but they won't - hence the bank fraud charges being dropped because NOT ONE banker would take the stand."

and

"it looks to me like they are mentioning things that shouldn't be brought up in the trial since the bank fraud charges were dropped."

*****************************

Well, look at it this way...
the intent of all this was allegedly to force a showdown in court - to get the truth out regarding bank fraud (meaning fraud on the part of banks).

And yet, there was great glee shown because the bank fraud charges (accusing Dorean) were dropped.

That should have been a cause for concern, not celebration. Now, thanks to the prosecution, the door is opened once again to at least trying to air all the issues.

notorial dissent said...

Well, there you are swami trying to think again, and all it does is give you a headache.

The big difference between what pony tail and the blob did and what Walmart or whatever may have done, is that Walmart didn’t commit criminal fraud to begin with, and then be stupid enough to do it in front of a Federal judge. That would be the big difference. You can be unhappy that you’re dumber than the average rock, and that is no crime, but throw that rock through someone’s window and that is, and doing it in front of a policeman insures you get to go to jail. That is the difference. There are enough counts of mail fraud and other types of fraud, and each conviction carries enough time on it that it could well add up to 800 years. In my opinion, not nearly long enough.

Personally, I would say your math is as flawed as the rest of your reasoning. There is not one Dorean client who has not lost or nearly lost everything they had, so your statement is purely fatuous. Add to that fact that several of Dorean’s satisfied clients also face the prospect of their own jail time, I’ll just bet they’re real happy.

The evil bankers noise is a crock, always has been a crock, always will be a crock. I’m no more a fan of banks than I am of insurance companies or most of the rest of them, but the plain fact of the matter is that they have done nothing illegal, perhaps ethically questionable in many cases, but not illegal. The money from nothing theory is pure hot air and no amount of word twisting will make it otherwise. Do you recognize the phrase balancing the books? It had to come from somewhere, and it has been a fact and a reality ever since Pacioli gave birth to the mathematics of accounting. In essence, for every credit there must be a debit. There is no facility in bookkeeping for an account called “money out of thin air”, and you will never find one in any balance sheet for the simple reason that it doesn’t exist, doesn’t happen. If the money is there it came from somewhere within the banks assets whether it is cash on hand from deposits, or money borrowed specifically for that purpose, and that cash on hand will be balanced by a liability, demand deposits, or money borrowed. It still balances. Vapor money is a crock, always has been a crock, and always will be a crock. No one gets anything for nothing, except maybe the Dorean frauds, who got a great deal of money and provided nothing of value or reality in return.

The plain fact of the matter is that the banks do not have to defend themselves, they have done nothing illegal, and even if they had, the proper forum for that argument was in court, not with some silly collection of legally meaningless papers. But then since they and the so called process were legally meaningless, they couldn’t afford to be seen in a court because when they finally did end up there, with their so called process being judicially labeled a fraud and them getting slapped down for perpetrating a fraud, and that’s how they ended up in front of that same judge again, this time on Federal fraud charges.

So we are now looking at Day 3 and more comedy yet to come. Hi Ho, Hi Ho.

frivolous said...

ND, please explain (in your opinion of course), why the bank fraud charges where dropped by the prosecution. Everyone seems to want to dismiss that as frivolous...

~~The Swami~~~ said...

neodemes said...
***************************

Well, look at it this way...
the intent of all this was allegedly to force a showdown in court - to get the truth out regarding bank fraud (meaning fraud on the part of banks).

And yet, there was great glee shown because the bank fraud charges (accusing Dorean) were dropped.

That should have been a cause for concern, not celebration. Now, thanks to the prosecution, the door is opened once again to at least trying to air all the issues.







That's a good point Neo. There really does need to be a showdown to get this resloved once and for all.

Judge Roy Bean said...

Frivolous wrote: ND, please explain (in your opinion of course), why the bank fraud charges where dropped by the prosecution. Everyone seems to want to dismiss that as frivolous...

Number one, the conspiracy to commit makes them almost moot. Secondly, most of them were broker's own cases and were probably tossed in plea bargaining or to avoid prosecution by offering testimony). Finally, there are enough years in the quick/fast easy-for-the-jury to understand counts that it's not even worth the witnesses for each count's time and expense to appear. The trial would be two weeks long to grind through all of them and it wouldn't affect the civil case that has already ruled the program a scam.

Yetter said...

An incrediable new development has come for bank accounting,They want to remove leveraged loan losses from their balance sheets.So enter the unidentified financial object(UFO).I am not making this up.They are designed much like a collateralized loan obligation(CLO),that involve banks taking write offs on losses, holding the higher quality debt tranches but selling the highly leveraged tranches to hedge funds at discounts. The bank removes the entire loan from its balance sheet books, takes in cash on the acidic portion sale and receives on going income from the healthy portion. Banks claim these UFO devices create liquidity where none existed, and support secondary prices by creating demand for damaged loans and associated bonds.The important aspect is removed from the balance Sheet.The bank then provides the capital for the UFO buyer, the hedge fund. You might want to call this a close encounter of the wrong kind,since it is a leveraged solution to a leveraged problem with continuing lack of transparency. This is a local version of the "Paris Club", where years ago Argentine and Russian bonds went to heaven without any write offs to banks financial reporting. The fraud goes on and on, too numerous to mention, yet the mind set here is to endorse and cheer lead on this conduct and those that protect and perpetuate obvious violations of existing law and condemn anyone who challenges this financal engineering as madness Your country is bankrupt and broken. That will manifest itself in the near future. Congratulations morons, you and your heirs will get what you so richly deserve.

frivolous said...

Okay, so "strategically" it makes sense for the prosecution to drop the rest of the bank charges from your conjecture. Had nothing to do with the banks wanting to back out to protect their, uhm (clearing of throat) interests?

The civil case is still on the docket and let's not forget that Kurt/Scott WERE denied discovery indicative of a protective vail covering the banks. Why is it when anyone dare ask said questions, they are labeled as being unconscionable, frivolous, crack-pots etc.? I'm quite aware that these "arguments" have been heard before, you all have made that painfully clear, BUT, show me one case where the judge/jury made their decision based on actual FACTS (life cycle of the promissory note, accounting records et al), NOT so called "expert testimony" (because anyone can lie or be PAID to lie to protect an alleged fraud). Or better yet, a settled case with a court ordered seal? There's a good job for PauliGirl.

Here's an example, in a known Dorean case, one of the VP's of the bank supplied the court a pleading stating that they personally touched the original promissory note, but when compelled to present the note, all they provided was an affidavit of a lost promissory note. That's ETHICAL? NO, that's LYING, that's DECEPTION, that's SLIGHT OF HAND, that's PERJUROUS (if they would have been allowed in court to testify under oath), and the judge accepted that as fact. That's what lawyers get paid to do, obfuscate the truth!

See the REAL truth of the matter is that there exists no such judge that would ever allow such a ruling in their court based on the numerous law suits that would be filed the very next day not to mention the consequences of such an action. It seems as though there's some truth to this being a political/economical issue, NOT one of unconscionably or frivolity.

mogel007 said...

Notarial Dissent said: "There is not one Dorean client who has not lost or nearly lost everything they had, so your statement is purely fatuous."
__________________________________

Notarial Dissent: Tell me where do you get your alleged statistical facts? It's not from the National Inquirer, is it?

mogel007 said...

Notarial Dunce said: "Add to that fact that several of Dorean’s satisfied clients also face the prospect of their own jail time, I’ll just bet they’re real happy."
_________________________________

Oh really? Who's been sentenced? List all the names so far.

mogel007 said...

If the money is there it came from somewhere within the banks assets whether it is cash on hand from deposits, or money borrowed specifically for that purpose".
__________________________________
Fine. Give us all the accounting of debits and credits concerning the transaction then, since you think you know so much.

Is the promissory note a bank asset or a bank liability?

neodemes said...

Yet one more failed attempt at wiggling out of a loan using vapor theory

http://www.vermontjudiciary.org/upeo/eo03074.htm

(See how easy it is to just post a link, SOP? hint, hint)

frivolous said...

"Here, however, defendant is positing a legal theory, and a frivolous one at that, not alleging material facts that are in dispute. Defendant would have us remand this case for trial to allow him to show that the modern banking practices somehow create " new money" out of a borrower' s promissory note, make the borrower and lender mutual creditors, and thereby allow the borrower to be credited for the loan balance following default. There are no facts or law to support a theory converting appellant' s promissory note into money to be credited against the loan balance following default."

Why not remand this case for trial? Let's settle this once and for all.

Pauligirl said...

frivolous said...
Why not remand this case for trial? Let's settle this once and for all.


It's already settled. No need to do it again. Court already stated "There are no facts or law to support a theory converting appellant' s promissory note into money to be credited against the loan balance following default. Insofar as defendant offers no other defense to the bank' s collection action, the superior court properly granted summary judgment to the bank and dismissed defendant' s counterclaim"

There is nothing left to argue.

--------------------------
frivolous said...
BUT, show me one case where the judge/jury made their decision based on actual FACTS (life cycle of the promissory note, accounting records et al), NOT so called "expert testimony" (because anyone can lie or be PAID to lie to protect an alleged fraud). Or better yet, a settled case with a court ordered seal? There's a good job for PauliGirl.
---------------
How many of these cases have you read? Most don't involve expert witnesses. "New money" or "No money lent" cases come down to a few simple questions:
Did the transaction allow you to payoff a loan or buy a new property?
Did you sign a note saying you agreed to pay the money the back?
Did you pay the money back?
If not, what makes you think you are entitled to have a house or land for free?

Now, a settled case with a court ordered seal? If you mean sealed the way I think you mean sealed, then it wouldn't be available in the public records. If you want a case where a bank lost, I can probably find some, but it won't be on "no money lent" grounds. The courts won't accept that argument because it has no merit.

Yetter said...

The law, that pillar of truth and clarity. If possesion is 99% of the law, whose asset is it?Are you sure? Show me the money..real or imagined.ahhh so much immaterial averment.

notorial dissent said...

fribulous, I haven’t a clue as to why they dropped the bank fraud charges, maybe they just figured 800 years on the other fraud charges was sufficient and less difficult to prove. Not having read the indictment in a while, I don’t remember all the particulars, I do remember thinking they hadn’t charged them with everything that they could have at the time. I still think the 800 years is more than sufficient, since even if it is all served concurrently, they have enough counts that they’ll never leave prison. Mail fraud is easy to prove, it entails using the mails to commit fraud, and there is more than enough proof of that. On the practical side, it is expensive to try someone, and rather than spend a lot of money on a lot of charges, it is more cost effective to go for the high time items. In simple terms, car theft beats jay walking every time, even if the person is guilty of both, the car theft charge gets more bang for the buck and a considerably longer sentence. One other teeny tiny point that seems to get glossed over, the bank fraud charges were dropped, NOT dismissed, and they can be refiled at any time if it becomes necessary, everyone seems to conveniently forget this little fact.

Yetter, my what a great lot of poorly coordinated gibberish to eventually get to the point that the banks are going to package their poor performers in large clumps, sell them at a very deep discount, and get some cash out of the deal where otherwise they might not have gotten anything. They will still take a loss on the investment portfolio, but not a complete one. The other reason they are doing this is that banks/financial institutions, by virtue of Federal Reserve and Federal banking laws cannot keep those kind of poor performing loans on their books whereas most other business aren’t under that restriction and have more flexibility in dealing with them.

fribulous, the civil case is dead and buried. It’s sell by date has done passed. There was a civil judgement and pronouncement of fraud that isn’t going away.

What discovery were they denied, they have several hundreds of pounds of documents that only add proof to the fact they committed multitudinous acts of fraud, if there was anything that was germaine to the case, it was provided, but they are not allowed to go haring off after things that don’t come in to the charges. Okay, if you’re “quite aware that these "arguments" have been heard before, ” then you are aware that it has been ruled on and beaten to death that the boys theory is a crock. The decisions were not made on whim or anything else, they were made based on the facts of how this all happens. You might just try taking an accounting class but you won’t like the outcome, they won’t agree with you either. The Dorean theory suits a lot of people’s agendas and wishes about how things ought to be, they have nothing to do with reality or how real accounting works.

The story of the bank VP may or may not be true, but I suspect it is apocryphal and of the same caliber of value as the rest of the Dorean mythology, which is exactly zip. I have always found it amazing that so many notes supposedly go missing, when I have gotten every one of mine back, and in any event, when the trust deed is cancelled, the note ceases to be of any value, and the cancellation of the trust deed is proof of the satisfaction of the note, so it too is then dead, along with your wishful thinking. At best you are arguing irrelevancies, at least you are arguing illusion.

Yet oddly enough, every judge, that has come face to face with nonsense has ruled the same way, and every real accountant has labeled it a fraud, so somehow your disagreement really isn’t much of a selling point.

Moogems, so nice of you to come out from under your rock. My statement stands. If there were a single client out there that either wasn’t in the process of or hadn’t already lost their home you and the duo of dimness would have been trumpeting the success and proof of the “process”. Yet despite all the bluster and BS you and they have generated over the last year, on this topic a strange and resounding silence yet remains. In other words, Moogs, there ain’t any, and never have been. Moogs, for once your silence speaks volumes and testifies to a truth you have long denied.

As to the ones going to or already in jail, lets start with your good buddy Flea, followed by Sarah Magoon, and the other Dorean toady whose name I can’t remember at the moment, who is already a guest of club Fed, so care to rethink that statement a bit???

Moogs I already gave you the accounting steps, you didn’t like them then, you still won’t like them. You still have yet to tell me how a bank can go under when it can create money out of thin air, because you can’t. If your nonsense theory were fact, then banks and financial institutions would never fail, yet they seem to manage it on a very regular basis. Curious that.

A promissory note is an asset, Moogs, of the holder, a liability of the maker, curiously, it has been this way since the beginning of their use, and it hasn’t changed just because you can’t comprehend basic accounting.

fribulous babbled Why not remand this case for trial? Let's settle this once and for all. The court correctly pointed out that There are no facts or law to support a theory converting appellant' s promissory note into money to be credited against the loan balance following default. For precisely the same reason that there is no reason to allow someone to bring before a court there deeply held belief that the earth is flat, for the simple reason it just ain’t so. There is no need to revisit settled matter, the earth is NOT flat, the moon is NOT made of green cheese, and banks DO NOT create money out of thin air. The fact that you do not or do not want to believe it is of no more consequence than you are. These are settled matters of law and fact and have been for a very long time and do not need to be revisited every time someone has a brain fart and a lot of gullible fools following them around.

JDJD said...

Can we get an AMEN?

TheWill said...

Notorial Dissent said

There are no facts or law to support a theory converting appellant' s promissory note into money to be credited against the loan balance following default. For precisely the same reason that there is no reason to allow someone to bring before a court there deeply held belief that the earth is flat, for the simple reason it just ain’t so. There is no need to revisit settled matter, the earth is NOT flat, the moon is NOT made of green cheese, and banks DO NOT create money out of thin air.
_______________________________

Elegant and educated in writing but blind as bat and ignorant to no end!!!!

"They will be our chattels, (property) and we will hold the security interest over them forever, by operation of the law merchant under the scheme of secured transactions. Americans, by unknowingly or unwittingly delivering the bills of lading to us will be rendered bankrupt and insolvent, secured by their pledges."
“They will be stripped of their rights and given a commercial value designed to make us a profit and they will be none the wiser, for not one man in a million could ever figure our plans and, if by accident one or two should figure it out, we have in our arsenal plausible deniability. After all, this is the only logical way to fund government, by floating liens and debts to the registrants in the form of benefits and privileges."
"This will inevitably reap us huge profits beyond our wildest expectations and leave every American a contributor to this fraud, which we will call “Social Insurance.” Without realizing it, every American will unknowingly be our servant, however begrudgingly. The people will become helpless and without any hope for their redemption and we will employ the high office of our dummy corporation to foment this plot against America.”

Colonel Edward Mandel House a legendary power broker,
in a private meeting with
Woodrow Wilson (President 1913-1921)
___________________________
Think about that for a minute ND. I am not here to educate but it appears that you just drink what ever is given to you with not questions, no why, when, where or what!!!

Do you understand PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY????

Yetter has it right, Study to show thyself approved the righteous man need not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth.

Has there ever been a political prisoner in this Nation???????

TheWill said...

Yeah Neo, ND, JudgeIamonlyabouttruth

Jefferson had it all wrong. That was then this is now. That could not have happened to this great Nation??? The sheepeople are too smart for that?!?!?!


Jefferson's Prophesy

The Bankruptcy of America

Thomas Jefferson once said:

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies . . . If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] . . . will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered . . . The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

-- Thomas Jefferson -- The Debate Over The Recharter Of The Bank Bill, (1809)
___________________________

Judge Roy Bean said...

Note to "thewill"

If you think that nice little trip through history has any legal bearing, please make some copies of the Dorean materials and eliminate your mortgage. Maybe your own case will convince you when the Sheriff comes and knocks on the door to evict you.

You'll need some extra money by then. While you're at it, to make a few bucks along the way, start your own group to promote a similar scheme. It'll work best if you use a solidly Christian pose and talk a lot about God. Then set up a marketing network to get other people to pay you to do it for them.

Please, fire up your word processor and show us all the right way to reverse dozens of established rulings.

Web sites are cheap, but don't forget to budget for a CD or DVD you can offer for sale. (Hint: There's enough stuff out there you can copy bits and pieces and edit and the alleged authors won't sue you when you use it. Some of them are in jail or living with court-ordered restrictions.)

And I highly recommend you learn about setting up bank accounts in other countries. Maybe NOT Latvia. That one didn't work out too well.

Maybe you can sleep at night after you destroy some people's lives while in the process. You'll wind up losing your house or paying thousands of dollars in fees, maybe filing bankruptcy (which will be dismissed because of your knowing participation in a fraudulent scheme), maybe even getting prosecuted. And if you don't plead out and go through with the trial, you might wind up sleeping in a cell, but hey, look on the bright side: There'll be fools like Gashler and people like yourself out there on the Internet, and this time they'll be calling you a martyr. You'll be right up there with other genius heroes.

That's the only reward. Having sycophantic fools feed your ego by awaiting your every word. That's an enormously powerful draw.

Think it's worth it?

Let us know how it works out.

frivolous said...

"There are a lot of long words in there; we're naught but humble pirates." However, "I'm disinclined to acquiesce" to agree with your claim. You talk a good game, but in reality, your implications are obfuscation at best and are you really saying anything?

You and Pauligirl seem to conveniently gloss over my point. Although there has been much case law/decisions et al (which I made that point clear), there still remains the fact that no evidence has ever been brought into court to support the judges "supposed" legal determination. I take that back, there was one case, "The Credit River" decision (and we all know your views on this), but, that still doesn’t dismiss the fact that the banker was sworn in, testified, and "let the cat out of the bag" so to speak (even though it has been "mysteriously" stifled from being upheld in the Supreme Court, let's just dismiss it as irrelevant).

Everyone knows the world is not flat; it is a proven and an established scientific fact. We have the means to support and confirm this claim as truth (scientifically). However, not everyone knows what happens "in the black box" we call banking and all because a judge has the power to make legal determinations (on the fly, off the cuff, at their discretion etc.) as to what facts will or will not be allowed into court, or what's meritorious or not, we want to compel everyone to believe that's scientific fact? For the many times you've stated this point, it truly is an illusory and wily illustration. Why? Because it hasn't been scientifically proven/tested! It's quite the opposite really, it’s you and your ilk who are attempting to state as fact that the world is not round and how foolish you look to dare question us because we say so. It’s not my willingness to either accept or deny the alleged fact that "the banks create money out of thin air," I just don’t believe you or the courts are above the water on this (so-to-speak) because of their unwillingness to bring these allegations to rest scientifically.

Yes, the bank fraud charges have been potentially "postponed." Let's "scientifically" settle this matter; for the world to see, once and for all that the banks are operating with clean hands, not state as fact that this matter is settled because a judge, you, or pauligirl says so.

Oh, FYI, that Dorean case you so quickly dismissed as fallacy was mine so I have first hand knowledge of those facts and thanks for keeping this above board without the childish name calling. Just further supports your character, wily claims, and willingness to obfuscate the truth to discredit anyone who would so dare question the interlopers of the world. I digress…

TheWill said...

Judge RB Said

Note to "thewill"

If you think that nice little trip through history has any legal bearing, please make some copies of the Dorean materials and eliminate your mortgage. Maybe your own case will convince you when the Sheriff comes and knocks on the door to evict you.
__________________________

So you would deny historical facts sir?

The hand writing is on the wall and has been for ages.

I am not a christian! I am certainly not afraid of losing these material that currently enslaves us, as you would promote that we all become slaves.

2+2=4 and all that I am saying is follow the inflation, follow the incredible profits made, there is a gigantic sucking sound that is destroying the middle class and further impoverishing the lower classes of people.

You attempt to call everyone a fraud....The old saying is "takes on to know one"!

I have been to your site Bean. Your just out for what YOU can get. Pushing the drugs of this system of slavery.

Studying history will allow you to see what is coming from the present status of things.

You obviously attribute the downturn of this Nation to a natural financial occurrence, rather than the greed and thievery that is our current judicial and banking system!

What a clown blinded by the benefits of greed!

Ron Paul 08

TheWill said...

well said frivolous!

In observation, It's hard to keep a tick or a leach from sucking blood. That is what they do, that is how they live, but a virus is man made.

I think a virus has taken over this nation and has been infesting the minds of the people for some time, that few recognize it for what it really is.

The virus makes one think they can really get a foot hold in this extreme corrupt system.

Oh well, how can you know right without wrong!

At some point choices have to be made. There is no right or wrong except the harm that might be caused to others (people, humans natural men or women, the living)

It does take all kinds. Unable to transform themselves, gatekeepers of the status quo.

The virus that enslaves!!!!

Dog eat dog/people eating people!

Ron Paul 08

sopsback said...

not frank and no beans said...





"Maybe your own case will convince you when the Sheriff comes and knocks on the door to evict you."






wonder what all the anti-dg fokes will tell the sherrif when come nock on they door and trow them out!??

soona o lata, the sherrif be nockin' on everynones door.

i guss they just tell sherrif,

"i was too dum, so i didnt join the dg, now yo can take my hous

"but i dun care, haf of amerika lose they house too.

"i already went to home despot, and got all they BIG applonces cardboard boxes.

"im gonna make me a nice BIG house and the govt. wont be able to take it away frum me no mo.

"and i gonna heet it this winta with those new candels they sell, the ones which wont tip over and start a fur fo peeple like me who lose they hous and now live in big crapboard boxis.

"i shudda join the dg, but i was toooo stoopit, and now look wha hoppens...."

sopsback said...

how disin-generous of them...



The Federal Reserve Board


Foreclosure Resources for Consumers

If you are having difficulty making your mortgage payment, one of the most important things you can do is seek assistance. The following resources provide information and links to agencies and organizations that may be able to help you.
Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD)

* Housing Counseling Agencies
* How to Avoid Foreclosure (82 KB PDF)
* Tips for Avoiding Foreclosure

Federal Housing Administration

* You Can Avoid Foreclosure and Keep Your Home

Federal Reserve System

* Putting Your Home on the Loan Line Is Risky Business
* Federal Reserve Education - Foreclosure Resources

Federal Trade Commission

* Credit & Loans
* Credit Repair: Self Help May Be Best
* Mortgage Payments Sending You Reeling? Here's What to Do

Internal Revenue Servicen

* Homeowners Who Lose Homes; Foreclosure Tax Relief Available to Many
* Questions and Answers on Home Foreclosure and Debt Cancellation

NeighborWorks® America

* Center for Foreclosure Solutions Leaving the Board
* NeighborWorks® America Organizations Locator Leaving the Board

www.federalreserve.gov/pubs
/foreclosure/default.htm


Last update: September 20, 2007

sopsback said...

lol said...



"If you are having difficulty making your mortgage payment,

do to the utterrly corrupt and unethical thievery of the organization know as the Federal Reserve Board, just contact us, an we can help yo..."


right! just go the people who put yo in the sh*t in the first place to get help!

ask brother demon for help with dealing with demon.

"and by whom do you children cast out demons...?"

if not by beelzebub??

not bubba!


lolololol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TheWill said...

SOP

They still won't put 2+2 together.

What if there was no IRS? and the 100 of forms of taxing forced on each individual?

What if there was no FEDRES charging the people for every dollar spent and created?

Could this be why there is a deficit?

What if money was backed by something of substance? Gold & Silver?

What if there was regulation on lending that lenders must show where the PN is held after signature (original) and how the money was created for the loan?

What if there was a regulation that corporations and profits could not usurp the sovereign rights of a human being?

When how and why did a corporation become a person?

What happen to common law?

What is the difference between a Pirate and a Thief?

Was there inflation or deflation before the year 1900?

In what period did the phenomenon of inflation or deflation begin?

What caused the 1929 crash of the stock market?

Why was the Americans gold confiscated by the US government?

Is Arthur Anderson really dead?

Did he request in his will a memorial service rather than an open casket funeral?

Where does the government have the right to deregulate energy companies, utility companies and the like?

These questions and many others can only be answered out side of the Matrix!

neodemes said...

If you are going to defeat the evil banksters and save the world, you are going to have to start thinking outside the sovereign/patriot box, and realize all their rehashed games will never make one iota of difference.

Do you want to be free from economic enslavement?

DON'T USE CREDIT.

Hello!

Or, keep whining and pissing in the wind. Y'all do that the best.

sopsback said...

What if there was no IRS? and the 100 of forms of taxing forced on each individual?


this issue seems to be getting some traction.

on national radio last night at what seem to be 2AM, the coasttocoastam show w/g noory had some sherry jackson, an ex-irs examoiner say that there is no law requrieng to pay irs tax.

for this to be on a national radio show means that soemone is doing sumting.



'What caused the 1929 crash of the stock market?


that easy one. FR

no, not frankstein rosyfelt, but the same FR that this blahg is about.

Judge Roy Bean said...

thewill - you said:

I have been to your site Bean. Your just out for what YOU can get. Pushing the drugs of this system of slavery.

Now I know you're not only confused, you deliberately try to distort reality.

See anything for sale there?

See anything that promotes a scheme?

If you had actually been there and were honest about it, you'd see I routinely take apart the frauds and scams that afflict people who decide to use credit. I warn people about scams, including sub-prime mortgage servicers, credit data companies, lenders and yes, scam artists like the Dorean Group.

And "historical facts" as you put them may or may not have any legal meaning or usefulness at trial.

Try to understand the concept of relevance.

Then try to understand that law is not science. Law is opinion and interpretation. 2+2=4 isn't a law. No one drafted and signed legislation declaring it so.

Laws are proposed and enacted. When argued at trial, they may be subject to interpretation. Some get struck down in the process. Most do not. None of the challenges mounted in the "no money lent" nonsense have ever gotten through a real court of competent jurisdiction despite the number of programs you can buy or cut and paste from off the 'net.

Case law is built on layers of historical opinion and believe it or not, there are differences of opinion in some matters. We have differing standing rulings in some districts until a case comes along and a higher court makes a determination.

There is no scientific argument applicable to whether or not someone's frivolous legal gibberish has relevance. That is a legal determination that has been made by multiple Judges over the years.

Judges are the triers of law and juries are the triers of fact (or without a jury the Judge does both). If you want to challenge the laws which allow financial institutions to do what they do, go for it. Bring a civil action against the lender for damages. Cite whatever you like. But the decision on the matters of law will not be made by a jury.

And the mountain of already-decided cases the defense will have at their disposal and the fact that you have no dispositive case law to cite will doom your suit early on.

Of course, none of this is legal advice. So if you're so sure there has been no actual test of the theory, I strongly suggest you find an attorney willing to risk having what happened to Johnson's lawyers happen to them.

Other than just a client's interests, an attorney may be able to make a good-faith claim that the suit being brought might also affect the status and nature of the law. But if the law is already well-established, an attorney can be sanctioned for filing frivolous lawsuits. (FYI - when you do get an attorney, you might want him or her to know that's happened twice in Dorean-related cases.)

Please, if you can't afford one, by all means, file pro se (it's only $350 for Federal courts) and carry the flag of the alleged "Credit River Decision" into court again.

If you haven't already heard what typically winds up happening with repeated nut-ball filings by non-attorneys who may seemingly not know better, just do a Google search on "vexatious litigant."

Again, this isn't legal advice, but the financial institutions win this one about once a month and the poor plaintiffs wind up with a judgment against them for the lender's legal expenses. Last one I saw was reduced to $6,500 because the plaintiff had just lost their only real asset in a foreclosure.

The thing that really ticks me off is there are people with perfectly sound, legitimate and triable gripes with lenders and servicers who start having trouble and decide to pay attention to con artists instead of getting sound legal advice. Then they wind up facing the loss of their property.

Face it. You've been conned. Lots of people got conned by Johnson, Heineman, LeCompte, Jullian, McGoon, Gashler, etc., etc. Live with it, learn from it and move on. Enjoy the mythology but please don't treat it as real-world and expect to rely on it to do something as important has keeping your home.

TheWill said...

Whose whinny Fuckface!

Those are called questions.

And if you haven't noticed brainiac

debt is about to become the only way to survive if they have it there way.

Neodoidiot speaks out of both sides of his ass!

sopsback said...

somenone said...


"DON'T USE CREDIT."



and seeing as there will be less and less jobs, and more and more people losing their houses...

THEN: JUST STARVE!

HELLO! THAT EASY ENUF FO YO AINT IT!


lololololol!!!!!!!!!!!!!


dun use credit, because it will take yo abut 20-30 years to buy yo house cash.

but, theys always home despot, yo can get good size c-boxes there. the best ones the ones HD tvs or regurgitors come from. nice and roomy fo yo.

TheWill said...

You don't make a difference Neo. Whose talking about changing the world. Lead a horse to water but still it might not drink!

There is nothing wrong with fair honest, disclosed credit!

You are mixing apples w/oranges in your twisted tangle little head!

_________________________

JRB gatekeeper I see plenty of lies for sale on your site.

sopsback said...

hd tvs--big scream of course!

TheWill said...

Neo said

you are going to have to start thinking outside the sovereign/patriot box,
______________

If that is not a statement of a coward! Give up sovereignty!

Are you a communist neo? You mean there should be no individual rights?

Then how does a corporation have so many and you have so little? Oh,

I forgot you don't want rights.

neodemes said...

Snivel on!

And...have a nice day!

:-)

neodemes said...

“Delight thyself also in the LORD: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.” (Psalm 37:4)

Yetter said...

Notorial Dissent.
Great.Tell your mother to load up her retirement account with them.

TheWill said...

Neo with the same old response.

Never answers a question.

Even your book discusses that the only ability to spend will be from the Mark of the beast.

So I guess you are growing your own and have enough property and sustenance to survive!

Just waiting on your savior with no action!

You service two masters Neo! Problem is you don't know it!

neodemes said...

Actually, you will have a choice - to take the mark or not. (Pissing and moaning in the meantime will not save you from that choice)

I fully expect to be beheaded.

And you?

Yetter said...

TheWill.
Your dealing with the problem, not the solution.

TheWill said...

Neo

Just reading your Book Neo does not give you understanding! If you understood it and really knew what was coming then you would take "action".

You only spout out religious verses attempting to convince yourself that you are saved.

So from what, who and how are you saved Neo?

With all due respect to the Christian Religion!

neodemes said...

The question is: Are you saved?

It is not a question of how good you are, nor if you are a church member, but are you saved? Are you sure you will go to Heaven when you die?

The Holy Bible describes Heaven as a beautiful place with no death, sorrow, sickness and pain. {Revelation 21:4}

Many people wrongly think that just being a good person and/or belonging to a local church will get them into Heaven.

I am sure that you would agree that you have the right to say who may enter your own home.

In the same way, Heaven is where God lives and He has the right to say who may enter.

In the Holy Bible God tells us exactly what it takes for us to go to Heaven when we die.

First, my friend, you must realize that we were born with a sinful nature. The Holy Bible says, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God". {Romans 3:23}

This is why we need to be saved so we can go to Heaven and not Hell.

The Holy Bible describes Hell as a place of suffering and pain forever for all those who reject the salvation that only God can give. {Matthew 13:42}

The good news is that even though we are sinners God did something awesome for us.

God (The Father) loved us so much that He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to bear our sin and die in our place. The Holy Bible says, "God commended His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us". {Romans 5:8}

About 2000 years ago at the age of 33 Jesus Christ allowed Himself to be crucified.

He shed His sinless blood and died on the Cross.

Three days later God(The Father) raised Jesus Christ from the grave and Jesus Christ was later seen by many people.

Jesus Christ is still alive today and now in Heaven waiting to welcome home those that are saved when they die.

God (The Father) said my sins and your sins were laid upon Jesus Christ and He died in our place. He became our substitute. It is true. God cannot lie.

To be saved the Word of God or the Holy Bible says, "That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord (God in human form), and believe in your heart that God (The Father) raised Jesus Christ from the dead, you will be saved." {Romans 10:9}

Simply believe on Him (Jesus Christ God in human form who was born to a virgin Jewish woman in Bethlehem, Israel) as the one who shed His sinless blood and took your punishment for your sins, died in your place on the Cross, was buried, and whom God (The Father) raised from the dead after 3 days.

You shouldn't wait until later to be saved because you may die before you get another chance. Let God save you this very moment.

If you want to be saved right now just pray a meaningful prayer from your heart to God like the one below and you will be saved.

Dear God I want to be saved. Dear Jesus Christ Son of God I want to make you my personal Lord and Savior. Please forgive me of my sins or things I have done wrong in my life. Thanks Jesus Christ for taking my punishment for my sins by shedding your sinless blood on the cross and dying for my sins. Jesus Christ(God the Son) I now confess you as my Lord and believe in my heart that God(The Father) raised you from the dead. Amen.

If you just allowed God to save you then welcome to the family of God because you are now a Christian on your way to Heaven.

Now that you are saved you should strive to live a Godly life.

sopsback said...

UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT IS PAWNING-OFF GOLD BULLION FROM FORT KNOX!

FEDS ALTERED U.S. TREASURY REPORT DESCRIBING VALUE OF "GOLD STOCK"




DESPERATE ATTEMPT TO GET MORE MONEY WITHOUT CONTINUING TO PRINT WORTHLESS PAPER MONEY

I never thought I'd see the day when our own government was so desperate they would resort to PAWNING-OFF the national Gold stock, but that is exactly what is happening!

For years, they got away with merely printing-up more paper money but we've reached a point where they have printed up so much, the rest of the world is starting to view our currency as worthless. That's why the price of oil and gas has gone up so badly; our money is worth less.

Our country is now screwed because they can't print more paper cash without causing hyper-inflation, and they don't have enough gold bullion to pawn. . . . . . economic collapse is very close.


Get yo cardboard boxes ready!

Or hells, join an org called the DG, and save yo house!

And buy some gold if yo can, its over $760-770/oz.

sopsback said...

not entirely correct said...


Our country is now screwed because they can't print more paper cash without causing




sure they can! they have an org called the feudal reverse sytem and can print all they want.

that how they manpulate the conome. they been printin phony trillons for decades now; all sudden they want to STOP!?

waht wrong with the pixture??


casue it nuttin to do with money.


it do with m-a-n-i-p-u-l-a-t-i-o-n.


whey want to CONTROL yo is all.


there never have be a recession/depression.

just kep print up the $$$$


and dun tell me it casue inflaction eether.


infalsion just a nther manpoolated statixic too

Yetter said...

SOP.
The Federal Reserve has no choice.
It must INFLATE OR DIE.

sopsback said...

The Federal Reserve....


is OUT OF BUSINESS i herd?!


they have a fire sail on doolas. takes more of em to by gold.

TheWill said...

Yetter

I beg to differ. Questions and answers bring on solutions. There are solutions out there, but it appears that getting traction with those solutions are the issue.

We have judiciary treating the banks as if they were above the law. While they treat the individual with the "color of law" which is a fraud.

All the while, many individuals who otherwise would be intelligent allow themselves to be hoodwinked by this system, so much that they will not stand up now, today along with those who might truly care about what happens to freedom and liberty in this country.

Neo says he plans to be beheaded. Well how honorable. I say I will fight and if it comes to being beheaded then so be it. But where is Neo right now?

He is espousing a wait to be saved tactic that makes no logical or even emotional sense. He is in prison to the traditional dogma.

I say I understand the problem and am a part of the solution. Getting that solution out is the issue at hand. But I will continue to do what I do!

No Charge of course! JRB

Waking up the sleeping Giant is a task within itself!

Judge Roy Bean said...

thewill said: "JRB gatekeeper I see plenty of lies for sale on your site."

Kindly point out a lie or anything for sale if you think you can. Otherwise, you're lying.

And by continuing to do what it is you think you're doing, you're only making it worse.

Every time a ruling comes down against a victim of one of these kinds of scams, it only makes it harder for people with real problems to put up a fight.

Attorneys are wary of clients with mortgage problems who have tried this kind of nonsense, failed at it and then want the attorney to try and rescue them. They don't like it when the attorney tells them they're screwed. They don't like it when the attorney tells them he or she can't win the case because the borrower now comes to the table with unclean hands.

In short, and this isn't legal advice, if you don't have enough money put away to pay an attorney several thousand dollars to get your sorry butt out of the hole you've dug, the least you should do is stop digging.

TheWill said...

Yetter

I say this too. It is time to elect a Statesman with a track record like Ron Pauls

I think Neo might agree with this one?



https://www.ronpaul2008.com/pages
/donate-thank-you/

sopsback said...

lololololol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



wonder what all the anti-dg fokes will tell the sherrif when come nock on they door and trow them out!??

sopsback said...

lololololol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



wonder what all the anti-dg fokes will tell the sherrif when come nock on they door and trow them out!??

sopsback said...

lololololol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



wonder what all the anti-dg fokes will tell the sherrif when come nock on they door and trow them out!??

sopsback said...

answer the queston.

lololololololol!!!!!!!!

sopsback said...

answer the queston.

lololololololol!!!!!!!!

sopsback said...

answer the queston.

lololololololol!!!!!!!!

sopsback said...

cant, becoss they dun have a anser.


lololllllllllooooooooo!!!!

sopsback said...

ant, becoss they dun have a anser.


lololllllllllooooooooo!!!!

sopsback said...

ant, becoss they dun have a anser.


lololllllllllooooooooo!!!!

TheWill said...

JRB said

Every time a ruling comes down against a victim of one of these kinds of scams, it only makes it harder for people with real problems to put up a fight.
___________________________

JRB I will not debate you, it is obvious you are educated in the "color of law" much more than I, However, it appears that you must have some guilt about the little that you "think" you are doing.

Not quite a truth and not quit a lie. Your playing the middle, without the guts to really speak the truth about lending, credit, the banking (FEDRES) and our judiciary.

I know you know what I mean, but you just keep on making yourself feel better by the little that you "think" you do.

Define the word attorney!

I am a Captain Judge, so I guess and if I must, go down with the Ship!

Dignity is all I need to die with! I don't think we can lie to ourselves of whether we have it or not!
_______________________________

Yetter

Excuse my oversight, I know what you mean now in dealing with the problem instead of the solution. Sometime I just can't help myself!

TheWill said...

sopsback said...

UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT IS PAWNING-OFF GOLD BULLION FROM FORT KNOX!

SOP I thought Nixon did that back in the 70's

or even earlier it was being sold to Europe for $20 an ounce while being sold back to Americans for $35.

And thye won ainser yo questine nomor ethr

sopsback said...

hears one mybe jungle beens can asnwer.


say that yo take out a mortage for 30 yers @ 5%

if yo pay fo 30 yers, yo wind up paying over $400-500K back


NOW, yo take a federal REVERSE MORTAGE on yo house for 200K equity with the same 5% interest rats.

they send yo a check each month on a revesre moonage, like they used scrwing the ole peeple now with this who dun understans how it works.

at the end, yo wind up with maybe only about $150K of actual cash???


how does taht works????????


yo will say interest,but rember, yo deposited yo house deed for a promissary not for $200K which the bank depostis and makes money on. they shold be paying yo monthly until yo have $400-500K in actual cash



SMOKING GUN PROOF THAT THEY DONT USE THE SAME RULES.


now, let somenone explain this FACT away using all the bulls*t they want.

IT CANT BE EXPLAINED.

compund interest tables are not created differetn for banks and custormers.

they is factored the same NO MATTER WHO IS USING IT OR PAYIN IT.


E.O.S. (yo no what that meens.)





have not ever seen anynone ever bring this p;oint up before which cannot be explained unless by saying that the banks are outright theeves.

TheWill said...

I thank yo ladder pont be coreck SOPEE!

TheWill said...

nawh I thank yo wowh pont ees coreck SOPEE!

Yetter said...

Thewill.
JRB made some excellent points earlier, and I mean that sincerely.Part of the reason you have such diverse opinion here is lack of common ground.Without in God we trust in the court system, the only thing seperating the judge from the criminal is opinion and perception.

neodemes said...

thewill said...

I say I understand the problem and am a part of the solution. Getting that solution out is the issue at hand. But I will continue to do what I do!

*******************************

Are you doing anything other than posting anonymously on lunatic fringe blogs?

BigO said...

test

Something To Go By said...

The guy at Quatloos that was giving updates on the trial is now leaving the bay area. That means there probably won't be any accurate updates. Walker Todd is suppose to testify next week. Many here probably have never seen an affidavit he did several years ago, so I've pasted it below. If his testimony is any different than the following affidavit, then he has changed his stripes. Keep him honest. Something to go by. I pray the jury can understand this affidavit.




STATE OF MICHIGAN



IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE COUNTY OF OAKLAND




)

BANK ONE, N.A., ) Case No. 03-047448-CZ

)

Plaintiff, ) Hon. E.. Sosnick

)

v. ) AFFIDAVIT OF WALKER F. TODD,

) EXPERT WITNESS FOR DEFENDANTS

HARSHAVARDHAN DAVE and )

PRATIMA DAVE, jointly and severally, )

)

Defendants. )

________________________________________________________________________



Harshavardhan Dave and Pratima H. Dave Michael C. Hammer (P41705)

C/o 5128 Echo Road Ryan O. Lawlor (P64693)

Bloomfield Hills, MI 48302 Dickinson Wright PLLC

Defendants, in propria persona Attorneys for Bank One, N.A.

*** Woodward Avenue, Suite ****

Detroit, Michigan *****
(313) ***-****



Now comes the Affiant, Walker F. Todd, a citizen of the United States and the State of



Ohio over the age of 21 years, and declares as follows, under penalty of perjury:



1. That I am familiar with the Promissory Note and Disbursement Request and Authorization, dated November 23, 1999, together sometimes referred to in other documents filed by Defendants in this case as the “alleged agreement” between Defendants and Plaintiff but called the “Note” in this Affidavit. If called as a witness, I would testify as stated herein. I make this Affidavit based on my own personal knowledge of the legal, economic, and historical principles stated herein, except that I have relied entirely on documents provided to me, including the Note, regarding certain facts at issue in this case of which I previously had no direct and personal knowledge. I am making this affidavit based on my experience and expertise as an attorney, economist, research writer, and teacher. I am competent to make the following statements.

PROFESSIONAL BACKGROUND QUALIFICATIONS

2. My qualifications as an expert witness in monetary and banking instruments are as follows. For 20 years, I worked as an attorney and legal officer for the legal departments of the Federal Reserve Banks of New York and Cleveland. Among other things, I was assigned responsibility for questions involving both novel and routine notes, bonds, bankers’ acceptances, securities, and other financial instruments in connection with my work for the Reserve Banks’ discount windows and parts of the open market trading desk function in New York. In addition, for nine years, I worked as an economic research officer at the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland. I became one of the Federal Reserve System’s recognized experts on the legal history of central banking and the pledging of notes, bonds, and other financial instruments at the discount window to enable the Federal Reserve to make advances of credit that became or could become money. I also have read extensively treatises on the legal and financial history of money and banking and have published several articles covering all of the subjects just mentioned. I have served as an expert witness in several trials involving banking practices and monetary instruments. A summary biographical sketch and resume including further details of my work experience, readings, publications, and education will be tendered to Defendants and may be made available to the Court and to Plaintiff’s counsel upon request.

GENERALLY ACCEPTED ACCOUNTING PRINCIPLES

3. Banks are required to adhere to Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP). GAAP follows an accounting convention that lies at the heart of the double-entry bookkeeping system called the Matching Principle. This principle works as follows: When a bank accepts bullion, coin, currency, checks, drafts, promissory notes, or any other similar instruments (hereinafter “instruments”) from customers and deposits or records the instruments as assets, it must record offsetting liabilities that match the assets that it accepted from customers. The liabilities represent the amounts that the bank owes the customers, funds accepted from customers. In a fractional reserve banking system like the United States banking system, most of the funds advanced to borrowers (assets of the banks) are created by the banks themselves and are not merely transferred from one set of depositors to another set of borrowers.

RELEVANCE OF SUBTLE DISTINCTIONS ABOUT TYPES OF MONEY

4. From my study of historical and economic writings on the subject, I conclude that a common misconception about the nature of money unfortunately has been perpetuated in the U.S. monetary and banking systems, especially since the 1930s. In classical economic theory, once economic exchange has moved beyond the barter stage, there are two types of money: money of exchange and money of account.. For nearly 300 years in both Europe and the United States, confusion about the distinctiveness of these two concepts has led to persistent attempts to treat money of account as the equivalent of money of exchange. In reality, especially in a fractional reserve banking system, a comparatively small amount of money of exchange (e.g., gold, silver, and official currency notes) may support a vastly larger quantity of business transactions denominated in money of account. The sum of these transactions is the sum of credit extensions in the economy. With the exception of customary stores of value like gold and silver, the monetary base of the economy largely consists of credit instruments. Against this background, I conclude that the Note, despite some language about “lawful money” explained below, clearly contemplates both disbursement of funds and eventual repayment or settlement in money of account (that is, money of exchange would be welcome but is not required to repay or settle the Note). The factual basis of this conclusion is the reference in the Disbursement Request and Authorization to repayment of $95,905.16 to Michigan National Bank from the proceeds of the Note. That was an exchange of the credit of Bank One (Plaintiff) for credit apparently and previously extended to Defendants by Michigan National Bank. Also, there is no reason to believe that Plaintiff would refuse a substitution of the credit of another bank or banker as complete payment of the Defendants’ repayment obligation under the Note. This is a case about exchanges of money of account (credit), not about exchanges of money of exchange (lawful money or even legal tender).

5. Ironically, the Note explicitly refers to repayment in “lawful money of the United States of America” (see “Promise to Pay” clause). Traditionally and legally, Congress defines the phrase “lawful money” for the United States. Lawful money was the form of money of exchange that the federal government (or any state) could be required by statute to receive in payment of taxes or other debts. Traditionally, as defined by Congress, lawful money only included gold, silver, and currency notes redeemable for gold or silver on demand. In a banking law context, lawful money was only those forms of money of exchange (the forms just mentioned, plus U.S. bonds and notes redeemable for gold) that constituted the reserves of a national bank prior to 1913 (date of creation of the Federal Reserve Banks). See, Lawful Money, Webster’s New International Dictionary (2d ed. 1950). In light of these facts, I conclude that Plaintiff and Defendants exchanged reciprocal credits involving money of account and not money of exchange; no lawful money was or probably ever would be disbursed by either side in the covered transactions. This conclusion also is consistent with the bookkeeping entries that underlie the loan account in dispute in the present case. Moreover, it is puzzling why Plaintiff would retain the archaic language, “lawful money of the United States of America,” in its otherwise modern-seeming Note. It is possible that this language is merely a legacy from the pre-1933 era. Modern credit agreements might include repayment language such as, “The repayment obligation under this agreement shall continue until payment is received in fully and finally collected funds,” which avoids the entire question of “In what form of money or credit is the repayment obligation due?”

6. Legal tender, a related concept but one that is economically inferior to lawful money because it allows payment in instruments that cannot be redeemed for gold or silver on demand, has been the form of money of exchange commonly used in the United States since 1933, when domestic private gold transactions were suspended (until 1974).. Basically, legal tender is whatever the government says that it is. The most common form of legal tender today is Federal Reserve notes, which by law cannot be redeemed for gold since 1934 or, since 1964, for silver. See, 31 U.S.C. Sections 5103, 5118 (b), and 5119 (a).



Note: I question the statement that fed reserve notes cannot be redeemed for silver since 1964. It was Johnson who declared on 15 Marcy 1967 that after 15 June 1967 that Fed Res Notes would not be exchanged for silver and the practice did stop on 15 June 1967 – not 1964. I believe this to be error in the text of the author’s affidavit.

7. Legal tender under the Uniform Commercial Code (U.C.C.), Section 1-201 (24) (Official Comment), is a concept that sometimes surfaces in cases of this nature.. The referenced Official Comment notes that the definition of money is not limited to legal tender under the U.C.C. Money is defined in Section 1-201 (24) as “a medium of exchange authorized or adopted by a domestic or foreign government and includes a monetary unit of account established by an intergovernmental organization or by agreement between two or more nations.” The relevant Official Comment states that “The test adopted is that of sanction of government, whether by authorization before issue or adoption afterward, which recognizes the circulating medium as a part of the official currency of that government. The narrow view that money is limited to legal tender is rejected.” Thus, I conclude that the U.C.C. tends to validate the classical theoretical view of money.

HOW BANKS BEGAN TO LEND THEIR OWN CREDIT INSTEAD OF REAL MONEY



8. In my opinion, the best sources of information on the origins and use of credit as money are in Alfred Marshall, MONEY, CREDIT & COMMERCE 249-251 (1929) and Charles P. Kindleberger, A FINANCIAL HISTORY OF WESTERN EUROPE 50-53 (1984). A synthesis of these sources, as applied to the facts of the present case, is as follows: As commercial banks and discount houses (private bankers) became established in parts of Europe (especially Great Britain) and North America, by the mid-nineteenth century they commonly made loans to borrowers by extending their own credit to the borrowers or, at the borrowers’ direction, to third parties. The typical form of such extensions of credit was drafts or bills of exchange drawn upon themselves (claims on the credit of the drawees) instead of disbursements of bullion, coin, or other forms of money. In transactions with third parties, these drafts and bills came to serve most of the ordinary functions of money. The third parties had to determine for themselves whether such “credit money” had value and, if so, how much. The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 was drafted with this model of the commercial economy in mind and provided at least two mechanisms (the discount window and the open-market trading desk) by which certain types of bankers’ credits could be exchanged for Federal Reserve credits, which in turn could be withdrawn in lawful money. Credit at the Federal Reserve eventually became the principal form of monetary reserves of the commercial banking system, especially after the suspension of domestic transactions in gold in 1933. Thus, credit money is not alien to the current official monetary system; it is just rarely used as a device for the creation of Federal Reserve credit that, in turn, in the form of either Federal Reserve notes or banks’ deposits at Federal Reserve Banks, functions as money in the current monetary system. In fact, a means by which the Federal Reserve expands the money supply, loosely defined, is to set banks’ reserve requirements (currently, usually ten percent of demand liabilities) at levels that would encourage banks to extend new credit to borrowers on their own books that third parties would have to present to the same banks for redemption, thus leading to an expansion of bank-created credit money. In the modern economy, many non-bank providers of credit also extend book credit to their customers without previously setting aside an equivalent amount of monetary reserves (credit card line of credit access checks issued by non-banks are a good example of this type of credit), which also causes an expansion of the aggregate quantity of credit money. The discussion of money taken from Federal Reserve and other modern sources in paragraphs 11 et seq. is consistent with the account of the origins of the use of bank credit as money in this paragraph.

ADVANCES OF BANK CREDIT AS THE EQUIVALENT OF MONEY

9. Plaintiff apparently asserts that the Defendants signed a promise to pay, such as a note(s) or credit application (collectively, the “Note”), in exchange for the Plaintiff’s advance of funds, credit, or some type of money to or on behalf of Defendant. However, the bookkeeping entries required by application of GAAP and the Federal Reserve’s own writings should trigger close scrutiny of Plaintiff’s apparent assertions that it lent its funds, credit, or money to or on behalf of Defendants, thereby causing them to owe the Plaintiff $400,000. According to the bookkeeping entries shown or otherwise described to me and application of GAAP, the Defendants allegedly were to tender some form of money (“lawful money of the United States of America” is the type of money explicitly called for in the Note), securities or other capital equivalent to money, funds, credit, or something else of value in exchange (money of exchange, loosely defined), collectively referred to herein as “money,” to repay what the Plaintiff claims was the money lent to the Defendants. It is not an unreasonable argument to state that Plaintiff apparently changed the economic substance of the transaction from that contemplated in the credit application form, agreement, note(s), or other similar instrument(s) that the Defendants executed, thereby changing the costs and risks to the Defendants. At most, the Plaintiff extended its own credit (money of account), but the Defendants were required to repay in money (money of exchange, and lawful money at that), which creates at least the inference of inequality of obligations on the two sides of the transaction (money, including lawful money, is to be exchanged for bank credit).

MODERN AUTHORITIES ON MONEY

11.To understand what occurred between Plaintiff and Defendants concerning the alleged loan of money or, more accurately, credit, it is helpful to review a modern Federal Reserve description of a bank’s lending process. See, David H. Friedman, MONEY AND BANKING (4th ed. 1984)(apparently already introduced into this case): “The commercial bank lending process is similar to that of a thrift in that the receipt of cash from depositors increases both its assets and its deposit liabilities, which enables it to make additional loans and investments. . . . When a commercial bank makes a business loan, it accepts as an asset the borrower’s debt obligation (the promise to repay) and creates a liability on its books in the form of a demand deposit in the amount of the loan.” (Consumer loans are funded similarly.) Therefore, the bank’s original bookkeeping entry should show an increase in the amount of the asset credited on the asset side of its books and a corresponding increase equal to the value of the asset on the liability side of its books. This would show that the bank received the customer’s signed promise to repay as an asset, thus monetizing the customer’s signature and creating on its books a liability in the form of a demand deposit or other demand liability of the bank. The bank then usually would hold this demand deposit in a transaction account on behalf of the customer. Instead of the bank lending its money or other assets to the customer, as the customer reasonably might believe from the face of the Note, the bank created funds for the customer’s transaction account without the customer’s permission, authorization, or knowledge and delivered the credit on its own books representing those funds to the customer, meanwhile alleging that the bank lent the customer money. If Plaintiff’s response to this line of argument is to the effect that it acknowledges that it lent credit or issued credit instead of money, one might refer to Thomas P. Fitch, BARRON’S BUSINESS GUIDE DICTIONARY OF BANKING TERMS, “Credit banking,” 3. “Bookkeeping entry representing a deposit of funds into an account.” But Plaintiff’s loan agreement apparently avoids claiming that the bank actually lent the Defendants money. They apparently state in the agreement that the Defendants are obligated to repay Plaintiff principal and interest for the “Valuable consideration (money) the bank gave the customer (borrower).” The loan agreement and Note apparently still delete any reference to the bank’s receipt of actual cash value from the Defendants and exchange of that receipt for actual cash value that the Plaintiff banker returned.

12.According to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, money is anything that has value that banks and people accept as money; money does not have to be issued by the government. For example, David H. Friedman, I BET YOU THOUGHT. . . . 9, Federal Reserve Bank of New York (4th ed. 1984)(apparently already introduced into this case), explains that banks create new money by depositing IOUs, promissory notes, offset by bank liabilities called checking account balances. Page 5 says, “Money doesn’t have to be intrinsically valuable, be issued by government, or be in any special form. . . .”

13.The publication, Anne Marie L. Gonczy, MODERN MONEY MECHANICS 7-33, Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago (rev. ed. June 1992)(apparently already introduced into this case), contains standard bookkeeping entries demonstrating that money ordinarily is recorded as a bank asset, while a bank liability is evidence of money that a bank owes. The bookkeeping entries tend to prove that banks accept cash, checks, drafts, and promissory notes/credit agreements (assets) as money deposited to create credit or checkbook money that are bank liabilities, which shows that, absent any right of setoff, banks owe money to persons who deposit money.. Cash (money of exchange) is money, and credit or promissory notes (money of account) become money when banks deposit promissory notes with the intent of treating them like deposits of cash. See, 12 U.S.C. Section 1813 (l)(1) (definition of “deposit” under Federal Deposit Insurance Act). The Plaintiff acts in the capacity of a lending or banking institution, and the newly issued credit or money is similar or equivalent to a promissory note, which may be treated as a deposit of money when received by the lending bank.. Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas publication MONEY AND BANKING, page 11, explains that when banks grant loans, they create new money. The new money is created because a new “loan becomes a deposit, just like a paycheck does.” MODERN MONEY MECHANICS, page 6, says, “What they [banks] do when they make loans is to accept promissory notes in exchange for credits to the borrowers’ transaction accounts.” The next sentence on the same page explains that the banks’ assets and liabilities increase by the amount of the loans.

COMMENTARY AND SUMMARY OF ARGUMENT
14. Plaintiff apparently accepted the Defendants’ Note and credit application (money of account) in exchange for its own credit (also money of account) and deposited that credit into an account with the Defendants’ names on the account, as well as apparently issuing its own credit for $95,905.16 to Michigan National Bank for the account of the Defendants. One reasonably might argue that the Plaintiff recorded the Note or credit application as a loan (money of account) from the Defendants to the Plaintiff and that the Plaintiff then became the borrower of an equivalent amount of money of account from the Defendants.

15. The Plaintiff in fact never lent any of its own pre-existing money, credit, or assets as consideration to purchase the Note or credit agreement from the Defendants. (Robertson Notes: I add that when the bank does the forgoing, then in that event, there is an utter failure of consideration for the “loan contract”.) When the Plaintiff deposited the Defendants’ $400,000 of newly issued credit into an account, the Plaintiff created from $360,000 to $400,000 of new money (the nominal principal amount less up to ten percent or $40,000 of reserves that the Federal Reserve would require against a demand deposit of this size). The Plaintiff received $400,000 of credit or money of account from the Defendants as an asset. GAAP ordinarily would require that the Plaintiff record a liability account, crediting the Defendants’ deposit account, showing that the Plaintiff owes $400,000 of money to the Defendants, just as if the Defendants were to deposit cash or a payroll check into their account.

16. The following appears to be a disputed fact in this case about which I have insufficient information on which to form a conclusion: I infer that it is alleged that Plaintiff refused to lend the Defendants Plaintiff’s own money or assets and recorded a $400,000 loan from the Defendants to the Plaintiff, which arguably was a $400,000 deposit of money of account by the Defendants, and then when the Plaintiff repaid the Defendants by paying its own credit (money of account) in the amount of $400,000 to third-party sellers of goods and services for the account of Defendants, the Defendants were repaid their loan to Plaintiff, and the transaction was complete.

17. I do not have sufficient knowledge of the facts in this case to form a conclusion on the following disputed points: None of the following material facts are disclosed in the credit application or Note or were advertised by Plaintiff to prove that the Defendants are the true lenders and the Plaintiff is the true borrower. The Plaintiff is trying to use the credit application form or the Note to persuade and deceive the Defendants into believing that the opposite occurred and that the Defendants were the borrower and not the lender. The following point is undisputed: The Defendants’ loan of their credit to Plaintiff, when issued and paid from their deposit or credit account at Plaintiff, became money in the Federal Reserve System (subject to a reduction of up to ten percent for reserve requirements) as the newly issued credit was paid pursuant to written orders, including checks and wire transfers, to sellers of goods and services for the account of Defendants.

CONCLUSION
18. Based on the foregoing, Plaintiff is using the Defendant’s Note for its own purposes, and it remains to be proven whether Plaintiff has incurred any financial loss or actual damages (I do not have sufficient information to form a conclusion on this point). In any case, the inclusion of the “lawful money” language in the repayment clause of the Note is confusing at best and in fact may be misleading in the context described above.

AFFIRMATION
19. I hereby affirm that I prepared and have read this Affidavit and that I believe the foregoing statements in this Affidavit to be true. I hereby further affirm that the basis of these beliefs is either my own direct knowledge of the legal principles and historical facts involved and with respect to which I hold myself out as an expert or statements made or documents provided to me by third parties whose veracity I reasonably assumed.

Further the Affiant sayeth naught.

At Chagrin Falls , Ohio
December 5, 2003 _____________________________________

WALKER F. TODD (Ohio bar no. 0064***)

Expert witness for the Defendants

Walker F. Todd, Attorney at Law

BigO said...

This is a message to Demo from Quatloos...

You discribe Kurt and Scott as, to quote you...

Ponytail and The Lump...

I say you got a hella lot of nerve calling anybody a "LUMP" for you can surly afford to drop a couple of lbs. your self.

Also I'm told quite often that I look around 32ish not 40 or 50.

I normally dont talk about ppl like that but you have some nerve calling folks names.

Also I didn't tell you that "Money Masters" was the same as the documentary "something happened on the way to the moon" you would think with all the notes you were taking you could get your facts str8, but you do look like the type that believes everything you are told by yo Mama and Daddy, and this wonderful Gomment!!!

I posted here insted of your qualoos site because all thats there is Dorean haters...

and as for the "GOLF" bloger I as well am happy you were'nt choosen on the jury!!!

BigO said...

Dont worry Demo I'm a Gentel Giant

God Bless and I hope you made it back to Wash... SAFE!!!!

maybe when you return we can sare a "Starbucks" together LOL

Big"O" 1+1+1=1

SEE YOU AT THE TOP!!!!!

p.s. really we can share a Starbucks when you get back to Cali. No Hard Fellings at ALL !!!

neodemes said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Something To Go By said...

bigo will you give us updates next week?

Something To Go By said...

In case you missed it before no guts nemo deleted his own post he said,"Gosh......that took a lot of courage".

neodemes said...

Yeap. I was poking a little fun at bigo, but decided not to after seeing the followup post regarding Demo.

Get over yourself.

BTW something - what did you say your name was, braveheart?

Oh, that's right, you didn't - you are just another anonymous sniveler.

Have a nice night.

neodemes said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
neodemes said...

oh, one more thing, sniveler.

Learn to post a link, eh?

No one wants to scroll through Todds bullshit

http://www.ba-group.com/images/Affidavit_of_WalkerTodd_Aff_1_20_041.doc

Something To Go By said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Something To Go By said...

I pasted the entire Todd affidavit on purpose without a link. I want us all to be on the same page when he testifies next week. No excuses. Now everyone here knows what he SHOULD say. If he doesn't, then we have something here to compare it to. Something to go by.

neodemes said...

And we are counting on who, exactly, to do the reporting back on his testimony?

BigO said...

I dont know when I'm going to have a chance to go again, but when I do I'll do my best to give you something.

that Demo chick took notes on the first week and posted it on the quatloos site, but you have to be able to read through her bias BS.

BigO said...

Her claim is that she has been knowing Kurt and Scoot for a long time!

sopsback said...

HOW COME jimmy NOONE STILL DUN ANSER MY QUESTLON????


IF YO BORRY $200K FOR 30 YEARS @ 5%, YO PAY BACK OVER $400K THE BANK IN MOTHLY PAYTS.

IF YO TAKE A FEDRAL REVERSE MTG FOR $200K @ 5%, FOR 30 YEARS, THE BANK ONLY PAY YO ABOUT $150K IN CASH FROM ITS MONTHLY PYTS TO YO.



SO WHRES THE BANKING JEEN-YIS WHO CAN ESPLANE THIS????????

sopsback said...

Please help me with my main question:

If the whole world is operating under the control of illuminist laws, how do we the people undue this well entrenched system and restore our constitutional Republic form of common law and government?


It seems to me that one gigantic COUP has to take place where all the illuminati and darkside characters are removed from their positions of leadership, but our White Knights can't even stop Bush from stopping our deliveries so how is this massive changeover ever accomplished?


(answer below:)

sopsback said...

Thank you for your letter.

You say that it will take a "gigantic coup" to stop the "illuminti and darkside characters", who control the U.S. and the whole world. That is True! That is what Creator God's Plan 2000 and NESARA are all about.

A gigantic coup is quietly taking place in the U.S. at this time, but such change must be done lawfully under the U.S. Constitution of the Republic, if it is to have the support of Creator God and the Forces of Light. Without their support such a coup could not be done, and to do it lawfully requires time and patient endurance.

The plan to dismantle the Corporation of the U.S. and its Corporate Constitution and place the nation back under the original Constitution of the Republic was born in the early 1950's following World War II. Many civilian and military both active and retired have carried this plan through to the present day. The National Economic Security and Restoration Act (NESARA) was passed by the true U.S. Congress on March 9, 2000 and signed into law on October 10, 2000 by U.S. President Bill Clinton. The requirement for NESARA's implementation was an official public announcement of its existence. NESARA was a major part of the U.S. restoration plan.

The law required a banking change to a gold system and abolishing the Federal Reserve and the Internal Revenue Service, and the removal of the present administration and Congress. The Bush Administration and the false Congress opposed NESARA, therefore the U.S. Supreme Court placed a gag order on it to keep knowledge of its existence from the general public, ordered all information of NESARA stricken from the Congressional Registry and NESARA documents placed in the U.S. Supreme Court files.

The first attempt to publicly announce NESARA was on September 11, 2001 from the newly completed Naval Communications Center on the first floor of the Pentagon. Both the national and the international computer banking centers were located in the north and south towers of the World Trade Center in New York City, and much gold asset was stored in vaults beneath the towers.

We know today that G.W. Bush had agreed to step down six months after taking office to allow for the implementation of NESARA. Under the Kol Nidre this agreement meant nothing. Upon completing his Oath of Office G.W. Bush immediately ordered the FBI and CIA to create a plan to stop NESARA. As we now know, G.W. Bush did not step down, and 9/11 occurred to stop the NESARA public announcement planned for that day. The fight to prevent NESARA has gone on now for over seven years.

In spite of the great opposition to it, Creator God's Plan shall prevail. On September 19, 2007 the Global Banking system backed by gold was established and the U.S. Congress agreed to place the U.S. Treasury of the Republic under it. On October 19, 2007, at midnight the U.S. treasury of the Republic went on-line with the Global Banking System, and is to be accessible to the public on Tuesday, October 23, 2007. The delivery of the letters and bank packets to the recipients of the Farm Claims and Prosperity programs is to be completed on or before that date.

There are many signs of change. Much, if not all, of the Carlyle Group has been "disbanded" for their opposition to NESARA. A test run of debt dismissal on 1.5% of the U.S. credit cards has been successfully completed, and some people are finding their credit card debt "zeroed" out. The U.S. Stock Market dropped substantially today, the 20-year anniversary of "Black Monday", and gold continues to rise in price.

Gradually, the Darkside is being defeated, as changes to goodness occur, and NESARA and deliveries are definitely a part of that plan. The "gigantic coup" is happening right under our noses, but few are aware.

Walk in faith, my friend, for the Light wins, always!

sopsback said...

"On October 19, 2007, at midnight the U.S. treasury of the Republic went on-line with the Global Banking System, and is to be accessible to the public on Tuesday, October 23, 2007.



what yo meen by that?

wha hoppens on Oct. 23, 2007??


yo gonna gimme sum mooney then???


my moongage is canceld???

my credit card are canecled too???


what gonna hoppens on 23??


it tooo erly fo HAlloween?

lolololo!!!!!!!!!!

sopsback said...

and wha yo mean by....


....went on-line with the Global Banking System, and is to be accessible to the public on Tuesday, October 23, 2007.



so, the baking sytem is assessable by the pubic??


so, what? now i can just walk in my bank, and walk behing the counter, and if the teller stop me, i just tell her, "what, yo stoopid or sumting? dun yo no that today it say the the bank is accesble to pulbic? so, i just using my access to the bank and its money. so now i just be a few mints, while i go to tht drawer and take out some of my assess money they says is mine. so just get the **** out the way now!!

btw, i will need a bag to put all my money in. yo gut any here handy?

sopsback said...

a nice job by i. lou minardi.....


real piece of work here.



"In the final analyses, we are at the cross roads. As you know the greatest American disaster is in the making. The drought in the southeast is being made worse by policies to quicken a disaster that would make Katrina look like a kinder garden party.

I found a link that indicated that the army core of engineering mistakenly??????????? released 22 billion gallons in June of this year out of the lake Lanier.

If you are following this story you will see that this is the next 911 being quickened by the elate to bring marshal Law. This crisis will develop in several states baring a miracle of several cat 5 of greater hurricanes up a Georgia river. The weather has been monkeyed with for years since the Haarp project and cloud seeding began may years ago. Add the warming aspect and there you have it. It is only a question of pushing the old man in the wheel chair off the cliff."

Oh? I hadn't been following the war of words between Georgia state officials and the Army Corp of Engineers, but sure enough it has been making headlines in the parched South this week.

sopsback said...

these people nedd to hung by their b*lls for doing that.


or spend a week living with nickelsandims.....



lololololol!!!!!!!!!!!!

neodemes said...

*yawn*

sopsback said...

of course lew minardi done it.


yo can tell by the amount.


"released 22 billion gallons in June..."


if it wasnt lou minardi who done it, it would not have stopped at "22"

it would of been 14,23,24, 26 etc

but not 11,13,22,33,44 etc.

sopsback said...

course, yo alredy no that when mr. minotti play his lotto nimbers, he play...



6,11,13,29,33,66


every time!

sopsback said...

mogs,

becasue the dg is now won and you a good person, we can go on to salvation topics.


there is a guy from utah ministires, and he said that according to mormon doctrine from some book of gospel prinicples, taht claims that lucifer was the brother of yeshua. he was being interviewed by jimmy deyoung from prophecy today radio show.


do you know about this???

http://www.utlm.org/

and


http://www.utlm.org/
navonlineresources.htm

sopsback said...

LDS Teaching on Lucifer

By Sandra Tanner



Mormonism teaches that Jesus, Lucifer and all mortals on this earth were originally born as spirit children to God the Father and his wife in a pre-mortal life. Angels, devils, mortals and gods are regarded as the same species but in different stages of advancement or judgment. The two oldest sons were Jesus and Lucifer. Lucifer convinced one-third of his brothers and sisters to join him in rebellion and were expelled from Heaven. Apostle John A. Widtsoe explained:

The story of Lucifer is the most terrible example of such apostasy. ... He pitted his own plan and will against the purposes of God. He strove to gain the birthright of his Elder Brother, Jesus the Christ. When his proposition was rejected, he forsook all that he had gained, .... He was no longer Lucifer, bearer of truth, who walked in light, but Satan, teacher of untruth, who slunk in darkness. He became the enemy of God and of all who try to walk according to the Lord's commandments. One-third of the spirits present in that vast assembly supported Satan and became enemies of the truth that they had formerly cherished. With him these rebellious spirits lost their fellowship with the valiant sons of God. (Evidences and Reconciliations, p. 209)

Apostle Bruce R. McConkie stated:

God lives in the family unit. He is our Father in heaven—the literal and personal Father of the spirits of all men. He begat us; we are the offspring of Heavenly Parents: we have an Eternal Father and an Eternal Mother. We were born as spirits, and we dwelt in the presence of our Eternal Parents; we lived before our mortal birth. As spirits we were in all respects as we are now save only that we were not housed in mortal bodies as is the present circumstance. Christ was the Firstborn of all the heavenly host; Lucifer was a son of the morning: each of us came into being as conscious identities in our appointed order; and Christ is our Elder Brother. (The Mortal Messiah, vol. 1, p. 21)

President Spencer W. Kimball commented on the relationship of Lucifer to Jesus:

The importance of not accommodating temptation in the least degree is underlined by the Savior's example. Did not he recognize the danger when he was on the mountain with his fallen brother, Lucifer, being sorely tempted by that master tempter? He could have opened the door and flirted with danger by saying, "All right, Satan, I'll listen to your proposition. I need not succumb, I need not yield, I need not accept—but I'll listen." (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 163)

President Spencer W. Kimball also wrote:

Similarly Satan had contended for the subservience of Moses. Satan, also a son of God, had rebelled and had been cast out of heaven and not permitted an earthly body as had his brother Jehovah. Much depended upon the outcome of this spectacular duel. Could Lucifer control and dominate this prophet Moses, who had learned so much directly from his Lord? (Faith Precedes the Miracle, p. 87)

Apostle George Q. Cannon taught:

The adversary ... aims to destroy us. Angry that his plan was not adopted in the heavens; angry at his failure in the rebellion against God and at his expulsion from the courts of glory; angry at his being deprived of a body, he and those who fell with him have been eager ever since that dreadful time to destroy their brethren and sisters who did not rebel with them. We who are here tonight, as well as all who are upon the earth, kept our first estate. We did not listen to Lucifer. He was a mighty angel; he had exceedingly great power in the presence of God. He used his great influence with the family of God to convince them that the plan which he proposed was the better one, and to persuade them to reject the plan of God and his Son Jesus, our elder brother. Failing in this, he has, apparently, declared war against all his brethren and sisters who were honorable and maintained their allegiance to God. Therefore he is continually spreading snares for the feet of the children of men. (Collected Discourses, edited by Brian Stuy, vol. 1, May 19th, 1889, p. 255)

In 1949 Apostle Joseph F. Merrill stated:

Now there is another personality of which I desire to speak, ... that person is Satan, the Devil. But according to our understanding and teaching, Satan is a person with a spirit body, in form like that of all other men. He is a spirit brother of ours and of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is our Elder Brother in the spirit world. The earth was in course of development for the abode of man in mortality. A Redeemer was to be sent down and make it possible for the Father's children to return to him. (LDS Conference Report, April 1949, p. 27)

Speaking in 1857, Apostle Joseph Young taught:

Who is it that is at the head of this? It is the Devil, the mighty Lucifer, the great prince of the angels, and the brother of Jesus. He left the province of his Father, and took with him a third part of his Father's kingdom, and there was no other alternative but to banish him. God would have saved him if he could; but he could not. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, pp. 207-208, October 11, 1857)

In 1844 LDS author W. W. Phelps wrote:

And again, we exclaim, O Mormonism! No wonder that Lucifer, son of the morning, the next heir to Jesus Christ, our eldest brother, should fight so hard against his brethren; he lost the glory, the honor, power, and dominion of a God and the knowledge, spirit, authority and keys of the priesthood of the son of God!

Christ kept his first estate—Lucifer lost his by offering to save men in their sins on the honor of a God, or on his father’s honor.—Christ hated sin, and loved righteousness, therefore he was anointed with holy oil in heaven, and crowned in the midst of brothers and sisters, while his mother stood with approving virtue, and smiled upon a Son that kept the faith as the heir of all things. (Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 758, Jan. 1, 1844, art. by W. W. Phelps)

However, the Bible never presents Lucifer as the brother of Jesus. Angels were a separate creation from man.

Nehemiah 9:6—Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

The first chapter of Hebrews shows that Jesus is the creator, not a created angel:

Hebrews 1:2—[God] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;...

Hebrews 1:4-5—[Jesus] Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

At the end of the world Satan and the rest of the fallen angels will be cast down to hell:

Jude 1:6—And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

In 2 Peter 2:4 we read:

... God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Below is a quote from Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Dictionary:

DEVIL

(accuser)—the main title for the fallen angelic being who is the supreme enemy of God and man. Satan is his name, and devil is what he is—the accuser or deceiver. The title "devil" appears 35 times in the NKJV. In every case it is preceded by the article "the," indicating a title rather than a name. The term comes from a Greek word that means "a false witness" or "malicious accuser."

Several descriptive phrases applied to the devil in the New Testament point out the nature of his wicked personality and the extent of his evil deeds.

That Serpent of Old (Rev. 12:9; 20:2). The devil worked through the serpent to tempt Eve (Gen. 3:1-6).

The Wicked or Evil One (Matt. 6:13; 13:19,38; 1 John 2:13). This phrase depicts the devil's fundamental nature. He is in direct opposition to everything God is or all he wishes to do. ...

Enemy (Matt. 13:25,28,39). The devil is man's worst enemy. ... He is an enemy of Christ, the church, and the gospel; and he is tireless in his efforts to uproot good and sow evil.

Murderer (John 8:44). "He was a murderer from the beginning" are strong words from the lips of Jesus. The devil killed Abel and the prophets, and he wanted to kill Jesus before His time (8:40).

Deceiver (Rev. 20:10). Starting with Eve, the devil has attempted to deceive every living soul. Evil men operating under the power of the evil one will continue to deceive (2 Tim. 3:13).

Beelzebub, the Ruler of the Demons (Matt. 9:34; 12:24). Beelzebub (see also 2 Kin. 1:2-3, 6, 16) means literally "lord of Flies" and is a title of ridicule. The religious leaders of Jesus' time were guilty of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit because they claimed the miracles of Jesus were actually conducted by the devil. ... There are many demons but only one devil. His name is Beelzebub, the chief leader of the fallen angels known as demons.

...

Ruler of This World (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11). Three times Jesus called the devil the "ruler of this world." The devil offered the world to Jesus if He would worship him (Luke 4:5-7), but the Lord refused with these words, "Get behind me Satan" (4:8). At Calvary God dealt a death blow to this world ruler. It is only a matter of time before God will win the final victory at the end of time (1 John 3:8; Matt. 25:41; Rev. 12:7). (Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Dictionary, 1995, Thomas Nelson Pub.)

sopsback said...

Beelzebub, the Ruler of the Demons

(Matt. 9:34; 12:24).

Beelzebub (see also 2 Kin. 1:2-3, 6, 16) means literally "lord of Flies" and is a title of ridicule.


The religious leaders of Jesus' time were guilty of

blasphemy against the Holy Spirit

because they claimed the miracles of Jesus were actually conducted by the devil.

... There are many demons but only one devil. His name is Beelzebub, the chief leader of the fallen angels known as demons.

...



"blaspheming the HS"

the only sin which will NOT be forgiven.

sopsback said...

even when yo all get lots of $$$$

dont ever forget, whos kingdom is this????

dun worry, and if yo do forget, he will remind yo in HURRY!!

keep yeshua NEAR YOU!




Ruler of This World (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11).


Three times Jesus called the devil the "ruler of this world."

The devil offered the world to Jesus if He would worship him (Luke 4:5-7),

but the Lord refused with these words, "Get behind me Satan" (4:8).

At Calvary God dealt a death blow to this world ruler.

It is only a matter of time before God will win the final victory at the end of time

(1 John 3:8; Matt. 25:41; Rev. 12:7). (Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Dictionary, 1995, Thomas Nelson Pub.)

sopsback said...

the ruler of this world has imprtant overlooked connotations.

it means taht satan as ruler has the power to infiltrate organizations to mold them to suit his agenda



this is why all the supposed good organzitions have become corrupted, altho had started out with a noble purposes.


all benign organzations start out with a purpose for good, but soon become corrupted as satan knows taht the easiest way to take it down is from the inside, just like the twin towers on 9/11

i believe taht when first started benevolent orgs like the masons who donated theri time to building etc, really wanted to do good, but b'bub infiltrated it, so that today at the high lievels, it really a sinster org.

what better example than the church itself (org'd churches meeting in buldings), to rep yeshua , whihch is now all infiltrated with satanists at the top levels.

popes, cardinals, archbishops, etc.

sopsback said...

started reading sum fo this stuff.....ineresting....




PROCLAMATION

OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS
CHRIST, OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.




To all the King's of the World;
To the President of the United States of America;
To the Governors of the several States;
And to the Rulers and People of all Nations:

GREETING:
KNOW YE:—

THAT the kingdom of God has come: as has been predicted by ancient prophets, and prayed for in all ages; even that kingdom which shall fill the whole earth, and shall stand for ever.....




(and surprisingly, the mormons consider indians....)-sop



We also bear testimony that the "Indians" (so called) of North and South America are a remnant of the tribes of Israel; as is now made manifest by the discovery and revelation of their ancient oracles and records.

sopsback said...

http://www.utlm.org/
onlineresources/
proclamationoftwelve.htm

sopsback said...

very interesting form the above article as this statement from the mormon tract seems to be actually happening in america today.




"Let the Government of the United States also continue to gather together, and to colonize the tribes and remnants of Israel (the Indians), and also to feed, clothe, succor, and protect them, and endeavor to civilize and unite; and also to bring them to the knowledge of their Israelitish origin, and of the fulness of the gospel which was revealed to, and written by, their forefathers on this land; the record of which has now come to light.

sopsback said...

every relgion has has a "hook", ie, an element of truth to it.


apparently, this doctrine of the indians by the mormons as a remnant of israel is intriguing.

i will be follwoing what now happens to the indians and what is written in the papers/news about them to see if in fact this could possibly be true.

will also now be keeping a closer eye the the catchers mitt in the race.

sopsback said...

course, like bad chickens soup, there is also the occasional "boner"



"In fulfilment of the work assigned them, let the Saints throughout the world, and all others who feel an interest in the work of God, forward their gifts, tithes, and offerings, for the building of the temple of the Lord, which is now in progress in the city of Nauvoo, in the State of Illinois.






anynone been to navoo? who??

is there in fact a timple there???


shold be done by now, they stated it in 1845


lolololoooooololllll!!!!!!

sopsback said...

all i can say in defense of the mormons is that i bleieve that all persecuted religions started out being closer to the truth than was advertised and as this is satans kingdom, it will not be allowed to continue for long.


so perhaps joe smith did have some things right, but they took advatnage of his many wrongs to discredit him.

just like the polygamy thing and many others which were easy to atack

like him saying that lightning put the writing on his tablets, etc.

sopsback said...

The Elites Had To Have the Branch Davidian Village Eliminated Because:




The Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, is shown engulfed by flames in this April 19, 1993, file photo. Retreating from its past denials, the FBI is acknowledging that federal agents fired one or more incendiary tear gas canisters during the standoff with Branch Davidians, while maintaining its stance that it did not start the fire that consumed the compound with Koresh and more than 80 followers inside.

1. Two of the Branch Davidian village members had been able to hack into the Pentagon/CIA/FBI Black Ops databases, and discovered that the CIA with the utilization of the CIA's Buffalo Airlines, were daily transferring Cocaine, laundered money, special operations agents, kidnaped children for CIA pedophile programs, and arms at the World War Two runway that bordered the Branch Davidian Village. 2. The entire village knew about the CIA's Buffalo Airlines activities that tied directly to George Bush Senior and his direct involvement with the CIA, the Mafia, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Columbia, Panama, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Mexico, Peru, and other global locations, that included the global elites intelligence operations, banking operations, drug transfers, arms transfers, child pedophile kidnaping and transfers, aircraft refueling, and global money laundering network.

3. In all of the Waco documentaries, all of the documentaries reveal that parked in front of the Branch Davidian village main building were observed several high speed go carts that were used by the branch Davidians who were carrying out the surveillance of the government Buffalo Airlines activity at the airport that bordered the Branch Davidian village, in order to identify and to log the Buffalo Airlines schedules with the two Branch Davidian members retrial of the CIA's Guns for Drugs transfers that were going on daily.

4. The Branch Davidian village members surveillance of the CIA Guns for Drugs transfers were known to the CIA due the CIA computer security having traced the hacking back to the Branch Davidian Village. Take note: the main incendiary device that was used by the Special Forces attack on the Branch Davidian Village was brought about where the commanders of the genocide were under the direct orders to take out the computer room first and then kill all of the inhabitants, and then use this genocide as warning to any one else who may want to tamper with the CIA/Mafia/global elites clandestine drugs/money/arms/kidnaping operations.

5. The whole idea as to why the CIA/Mafia/government needed to burn the Branch Davidian Village down, and kill all of the peaceful inhabitants was to destroy the computer files, and kill the witnesses to the CIA/Mafia/George Bush Senior/elite global banking drugs/arms/money/ pedophile programs that were operating at the World War Two runway by the CIA's Buffalo Airlines.

6. The Waco siege BATF/FBI/CIA/Military/State Department/Pentagon/Mafia, commanders directives were to burn the village, and murder as many of the Branch Davidian Village members as possible, and destroy all of the evidence.

7. The Japanese American contract FBI sniper (one of four of the government snipers who were used to kill off the fleeing women and children from the burning Branch Davidian village complex) named Lon Horiuchi was the same sniper who had murdered Weaver's wife at Ruby Ridge Idaho. Lon Horiuchi like most FBI/CIA elimination operatives had been psychological profiled by the FBI/CIA for hating white Caucasians due to his having grown up in World War Two internment camp.

8. It was noted that the very first day of the Waco siege that David Koresh, and two of the other members had appealed to the attacking special military operation that they had the computer discs and they would turn them over to the BATF Special Forces commander and surrender, if the attacking force would cease fire. The commanders were under orders to kill as many of the inhabitants as possible and destroy the complex for three reasons, (A) So there would be as few witnesses as possible to the CIA/Mafia Buffalo Airlines Guns for Drugs operations, (B) To let this be a warning to any one else who may want to mess with the elites global arms, drugs, and money laundering activities, (C) The elites are alleged practice Satanic type sacrifices and the murder of the Branch Davidian village was a good opportunity to make a sacrifice.

9. Take note: Part of this warning was to warn any one else who may be have considered hacking into the government databases, whereas, the two Branch Davidian members had been continually entering into the pentagon/CIA Black Ops databases, and they were able to keep track of the drugs/laundered money/arms/kidnaped children/agents/ transfer that was going on. The high speed go carts with radio communication were able to stay under the runway radio, and the Branch Davidian village was observing and keeping track of the George Bush CIA/Mafia/elite's global money laundering operation that was going on. Bob on the Job, Robert E. Lee Lewis served the best interests of the American people for more the twenty seven years as Organized Crime Investigator. Bob on the Job served on the U.S. Senate JFK Assassination Committee. Bob on the Job is currently interned for life in a government detention facility having been set up by government informant named Vance Beaudreau, and Joe Izen who are alleged run a special CIA/Mafia operation that is disguised as a law firm in Houston Texas. Bob on the Job is interned for life for having only done his job of trying to warn the American people of the take over of the American people's United States government by the global forces of tyranny who will eventually be bringing the consequences of the peaceful Branch Davidian Village to a neighborhood near every law abiding American Citizen soon.





(where yo get this stuff from)

sopsback said...

forget eyerack, forget youran, pres now said to want to attack rusha...lolololol!!!!!





Washington, D.C.,

“There have been many deliberately leaked stories about an attack on Iran but this time, it looks like it will go ahead.

Why now?

Both Bush and Cheney see that they are losing control, both personally and ideologically. They see the feared Putin making friendly with Iran and warning us not to attack. They see China and Iran, both perceived by Bush and Cheney as our enemies, doing more and more business with Iraq. And yesterday, at a televised press conference, Bush was attacked by reporters on camera. The reporter for the once-supportive Washington Times said, right out in front of the cameras, that Bush was now viewed as trivial. Bush stammered, glared and then responded that he was not.

During this conference, he was very angry and spiteful towards the assembled press and tossed hints that if the Russians and Iranians didn’t knuckle under, World War III was certainly coming. Many have seen this PR fiasco so it is not a great revelation.

Back at the White House, the staff knows that Putin’s growing involvement in international politics, in addition to his control of huge amounts of badly needed oil and gas has Bush, Cheney and their NeoCon controllers in a real and very dangerous rage. Putin has, and is continuing, to bait Bush and the insecure Bush is now being treated with contempt, his approval ratings heading rapidly to single digits. And what will happen? From the pinnacle of earthly grandeur, Bush sees himself being relegated to oblivion , and worse, in public.

People like Bush are incapable of accepting error so they always must have someone to blame for their own failings. Putin is now the focus of this self-hating lust for revenge, not the relatively harmless president of Iran. When Bush speaks in public about World War III, it is becoming very well believed here that he meant just that and threw that line off as a warning.

What do they plan to do, Bush and crazy Cheney?

Right now, they are thinking about attacking Russia!

Another possibility would be to assassinate Putin and yet a third, is to join with a growingly terrified Israel and attack Iran.

Connections at the Pentagon have said the same thing recently. They went along with Bush’s bluffing and leaks of imminent attacks on Iran but now, they tell me, it looks as if Bush actually wants to attack Russia!

This is pure nut stuff, considering that Putin is far more of a man and far tougher than Bush and, not to forget, Russia has a formidable arsenal of atomic weaponry and the ability to deliver it when and where needed.

The revival of the Cold War, such a pet project of the crazy VP is not the fault of Putin or the Russians but solely the child of Cheney who has his emotional and historical roots in the long-gone Cold War. Given the contempt with which both of these miserable creatures are viewed by their own military planners, massive leaks are certainly going to be forthcoming and if it looks if this deadly duo is going ahead, the military leaders will simply either resign en masse or send troops to the White House and take both of them away in handcuffs to be put on trial.

Maybe Bush’s head will pop off when then hang him..

War is coming and a very nasty war it will be…unless these two are stopped once and for all.”

The Green Zone Follies for October 19th 2007

Baghdad: “Because it has been ordered from the Pentagon, the death tolls here are being deliberately underreported. The official DoD casualty site shows a total of 32 dead between the first of the month and the 17th while the real total, according to lists I managed to Xerox, are more like 105 dead. As a public service, I will scan these lists and send them on so that the American public can see for themselves how they are being lied to and how many of our young soldiers are being murdered. Also, I am trying to get a list of the seriously wounded. This is never released and runs to the many tens of thousands. I have no idea how this can be published but someone Stateside can find a way. The most important idea is to get them out before someone knocks on my door at night and I become another mysteriously vanished GI. Oh, and also, drug wars are raging here, and it wouldn’t surprise me if some units mutinied. Marines were threatening to do this so they want to isolate them from a relatively public Baghdad with its many foreign diplomats and reporters, and ship them off to the safer and less public Afghanistan.”

neodemes said...

For your review, SOP:

DNA Science Challenges LDS History

sopsback said...

neodemes said...

For your review, SOP:

DNA Science Challenges LDS History




have read the article;

all i can say is the followig:


1. the article may be true

2. however, i used to listen to the bible answer man but stopped listening to his radio prog a long time ago but some of the assertions he had made, i found out to be untrue. personally, i disregard him at this time.

3. i do beleive that in the very near future, the the lost tribes of israel are going to appear, and it would seem coincedentaly that there are major plans for the indians population; the govt. is ceding them more rights; they have moneymaking casinos all over the place in just about every state. and a personal feeling that in order to manage mney succesfully, there is no ethnic group better at doing this than jews, so indians may just be related in some way.

and you just cant dismiss the money aspect of it so easily just by saying that they manage it well becasue the govt. gave it to them.

if this case, how many "projects" has the govvt. given to other ethnic groups and in a year or two they are almost completyly destroyed. but they were brand new when built.

no, the indians have the jewish gift of managing money. no question in my opinoin.

sopsback said...

conclusion is that at this time, i cannot dismiss the possibility that indians in fact are descended from some jewish tribs, DNA evidence notwithstanding.

as with everything else, when the time is right and its important for me to know, the HS will tell me the truth of the matter, and if the HS tells me goes againast the DNA evidence, well you know whom i am going with.

neodemes said...

sop said...

"the indians have the jewish gift of managing money. "

*************************

Stereotypically speaking, of course.

sopsback said...

neodemes said...

sop said...

"the indians have the jewish gift of managing money. "

*************************

Stereotypically speaking, of course.






of course. and factually speaking of curse, as well.


nohting wrong with steretyping people. its steretyping peeple negatively taht people have problems with, and the gift of managing money is def not a neg sterytipe.

course, it factually speeking as well. wanaa take a bet on the most prominent eethnic group moeny mangers on wall street??

i'll even spot you a hunderd names before we begin.

sopsback said...

matter of fact while we at it.

we can also make a bet on which etnic group nationally (globally??) has more doctors/lawywers as well?????

neodemes said...

State your source.

Make that, state your reputable.

neodemes said...

(con'td)source.

sopsback said...

sauce???


take a yellow pages.


get a list of the top moeny magners on wall steet? or in the usa©

take any sauce you want. i let yo chews yo sauce.


even worster sauce, duck sauce, soy sauce, any one, or all if yo want.

sopsback said...

how bout a saws fo the top layers???

go axe the soprinos in new yawk or any them mayfia famlees there??


wehn ever they get indited by the feds, they alweighs get jew layers.


wonder y????


becoss they reputable to be the best layers around.


any futile questons yo onor?
wonder why????

sopsback said...

who run the biggest bank?

the feudal revesre bank??

i no, it not a bank, but still.



as far as the best lawyers go, jews make the best layers becasue they have the most experience,

modern day lawyers are descendants of the practicers of "the law", moses law

they would be called "pharisees" of old


the origination of the law and lawyers came from the law and the pharisees


the p-sees could get somenone "off the hook" by twisting and turning what somenone had accused them or they "clients" of


lawyers today would be rightly called "pharisess" of old days


paul would of been the best lawyer of today if you could afford him. the "pharisee of pharisees" or today would be the "lawyer of lawyers"


nothing stypical or derogatory aobut that.

habakkuk said...

THIS IS FOR THOSE WHO BELONG TO HIM AND WHO WILL RECEIVE IT:

Fresh Word From Mark Chironna:
"YOU ARE SEALED BY MY SPIRIT"

"There is a reward coming and the hidden factor inside you is about to be unleashed and unveiled."

"For I have seen the vengeance in this season the enemy has sent in order to incapacitate my precious one. But fear not flock, he did not catch Me by surprise. I knew this day was coming before you got here. And before you entered into the season, I already embedded in your soul the code of victory. He cannot tamper with you at the core."

You are sealed by My Spirit; your faith will prevail and you will rise to a new level of brightness and glory. And My countenance will glean from the earth--all the anointings until all of My people shine brightly in the glory of My Son, for I am going to strengthen you from within."

"Do you not know there are hidden wells inside of you that have yet to be opened up? Am I not the fountain of living waters? Fear thou not, for within you are hidden resources and the hidden factor,' saith the Lord, 'that the enemy has no idea that are there. He can only do things based on the surface of your behaviors."

"But do you not know that the thoughts of a man and the plans of a man are hidden deep within the Spirit, where I dwell? The enemy does not know of those things. He doesn't have a clue what is deep inside you. Do not fear him."

"I have already encoded you for victory and whatever things he is throwing at you--are surface things. At the depths you are intact; at the depths you are in a place of victory, and at the depths you cannot be violated."

"Lift your voice in confidence when you pray to Me and realize that you are ascended with Me in places far beyond the enemy's grasp. Oh, he is there, but he is not able to do what he claims he can do. Did he not offer My Son falsely, the kingdoms of this world? They were never his to be given anyway. The earth is Mine and the fullness thereof."

"And did not My Son go through forty days of being demonized by the wild beasts? So, do not be surprised at this fiery ordeal, for you are one of My chosen ones and the enemy does not enjoy seeing Me bless you. But know this, for every day he has tested you, I am going to bless you A HUNDRED FOLD."

"I am keeping record,' saith God, 'and he has given Me reason to favor you all the more. For the more he has afflicted you, the more he has justified My right, covenantally, to bless you. There is a reward coming and the hidden factor inside you is about to be unleashed and unveiled and the Mighty Lion of Judah is rising within you with power. I will deliver your enemies into your hand and with joy, and you will shout at the victory when you crush him under your feet by My mighty peace," saith God.

Mark J. Chironna
Mark Chironna Ministries
Email: markchironna@markchironna.com

neodemes said...

"If you would like to discuss your wheel of life results and/or help obtaining life balance, sign up for a 30 minute coaching session with Dr. Mark Chironna for $125.00."

$250.00 bucks/hr.

Not a bad gig.

Name it and claim it!

hoo-hah!

G-FORCE said...

Habbakkuk---Go to www.kimclement.com then click onto National Prophecies for a lot of exciting info!

sopsback said...

that cirrhosis guy makes some point i agree with and some that i dont.


from personal experience:


he is right aobut having hidden resolve that we dont know about when we are tested and think how we are going to get out of it.




howver, i would take strong exepction to his statement:

"Did he not offer My Son falsely, the kingdoms of this world?'



yeshua Himself says that this is satans kingdom, and will be till His return in glory.


and even if it wasnt said, anynone can plainly see that the world wanders after the beast.


wars, killing, drugs, abuse, race hatred, etc. etc.


yo telling me that yeshua runs this???????


i dont think so.

Judge Roy Bean said...

Given the number (albeit small) of remaining victim/clients, would it not be a service to them to at least prune/ban the ridiculous number of idiot ramblings of "sopsback" so that rational people could at least get up to date information?

sopsback said...

that cirrhosis guy, see i try to be fair and give everynone a fair chance, but i go the the guys site and the first thing i see is this....


"A MCM Partner promises to give a gift of $30 or more each month. Monthly partners receive:

* A partnership card that assures preferential seating at ministry events....




------------------



so right away, he violates yeshua when yeshua warned about "those who get the best seats at synagogues...."


and put all the poor peepls in the back.

xxxxxxxcirrhosisxxxxxxxxxxx


x'ed out.



next........

mogel007 said...

According to the Quatloos site as posted by one observer:

"Fle testified that he pled guilty because he continued to sell the scheme even after he realized that it was a scam that didn’t work. He claimed to be a product of his own greed.

Cross was way more interesting that direct. Flea’s demeanor changed when Johnson spoke to him. He became compliant and respectful, and directly contradicted his earlier testimony about the scheme being a scam. Kurt’s charisma had a tangible effect on Flea. Johnson used the opportunity to show the jury photos of the nice building that housed the business, the law library in the business, the customer service center, the computer server that housed the website and so on, implying but never saying that the trappings are what make a business legitimate. It was fascinating to watch.

Johnson has made the point several times through each witness that the only reason why the mortgage elimination plan started failing was because the business was interrupted by the FBI raid. Even after the raid and Heineman’s arrest, Flea continued to give seminars. One was attended by 250 potential clients and Johnson participated by telephone. Johnson seemed proud that he disclosed to the potential clients that he was the target of an FBI raid and investigation.

Flea had previously tried a debt elimination scheme in 2001 but it didn’t work. He became aware of Dorean by a post made online by Sara Magoon and his only due diligence was to ask Kurt questions.

Johnson’s final question to Fea: Do you believe that we are willing to go to jail or die for our cause?

The judge sustained the objection that the question called for speculation."
_________________

According to the Quatloos site it is apparent by most commentators that the Defendants are winning their case since the naysayers are really disappointed in the performance of the prosecution team thus far.

No surprise there!!!!!

mogel007 said...

Moron said: "the bank fraud charges were dropped, NOT dismissed, and they can be refiled at any time if it becomes necessary, everyone seems to conveniently forget this little fact."
___________________________________

The bank fraud charges were dropped because THERE IS NO BANK FRAUD. The prosecution knew this when they penned the charges. They aren't going to reinstate those charges, GET A REALITY CHECK. The prosecution filing charges & dropping them IS JUST FURTHER EMBARASSMENT FOR THE PROSECUTION EITHER WAY YOU LOOK AT IT. Course Utah said the Dorean Group were fugitives & committed insurance fraud. Those charges WEREN'T PROVEN EITHER & in essence were dropped simply by the charges not being prosecuted on in a timely fashion. The idea is to throw enough sh*t on the wall, just to see what will stick & what won't. This is nothing more than just a hit & miss tactic that shows how stupid the people are, that wrote the indictments. Insurance fraud against the Dorean Group is about as stupid as filing bank fraud charges against the Defendants. Oh gee, all those charges were dropped, go figure.

Yes, you are right on one point, "you don't have a clue" why the prosecution dropped those BANK FRAUD charges because you still believe that banks lend their own money, another fantasy island wish of yours like the Defendants getting a life sentence. For the Judge to speak of 800 years is really stupid anyway since people don't live that long. If anything, it shows that the Judge is predisposed to having an extreme prejudice in this case which really isn't smart either to show, but who said that Judge Alsup was a smart man.

No bank fraud charges, no underlying inherent scam. No scam, no conspiracy. No conspiracy, none of the other charges can stick either, like mail fraud. It's really that simple.

Let's all go home and celebrate, once this trial is dismissed or no conspiracy exists according to the jury's verdict. I'm tired of seeing stupid answers from you. I'm disappointed that you still can't look at things with an open mind & read between the lines.

mogel007 said...

Judge Beanhead said: "it wouldn't affect the civil case that has already ruled the program a scam."
_________________________________

Hey bonehead. Get this future HEADLINE: "Dorean Group acquitted unanimously by Jury on all counts of fraud".

Now taking this criminal exoneration into account & filing a petition of reconsideration in the Civil cases by Judge Alsup, since the Dorean Civil cases weren't based upon anything of merit or truth since the Dorean Process CAN'T BE A SCAM if no criminal charges can be proven in the San Francisco court if a jury eventually acquits the Dorean Group on all counts.

If the Dorean Process can be labeled as a process that isn't a scam, assuming no fraud charges can be proven, then, the Civil case presumption of THE PROCESS BEING A SCAM, is a material issue that was improperly assumed by Judge Alsup. I wouldn't think Judge Alsup would really like seeing his rulings overturned, but his rulings could easily be overturned for many reasons if the Dorean Group go free and unharmed in the end by the latest remaining criminal charges.

You're problem Judge, is that you are not too creative in your thinking.

mogel007 said...

Nemo: "No one wants to scroll through Todds bullshit"
__________________________________

Nemo don't you know someone's garbage is another man's treasure? Anyway, you are always complaining about people that don't post a link, but why don't you post a link TEACHING PEOPLE HOW TO DO THAT? I bet most on this blog don't know how to do that.

You just assume people should know what you know? A true leader teaches, but doesn't criticize and judge. Course, I guess you never said you were a leader, did you? I always thought you were the follower type anyway of the masses.

mogel007 said...

Judge said: "Number one, the conspiracy to commit makes them almost moot."
_______________________________

Are you saying the original indictment in it's original form WAS ALMOST MOOT TOO?

Or are you saying the original indictment was basically redundant & extraneous, and irrelevant too, much like the pretended case and hopes of the prosecution?

Without the bank fraud charges, the prosecutions case BECOMES MOOT, BUT YOU AREN'T SMART ENOUGH TO SEE THAT, but I understand the naysayers are saying that the jury picked is a thoughtful and smart jury. That can't help the prosecutions cause & case at all. :o)

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