Monday, October 24, 2005

Rats in the Woodpile

Clients, this blog is a great venue for you to learn to be accountable for your own well-being. I can do my part and face my giant on our behalf but only you can guard your mind. There are rats in the woodpile. The FBI has plants, other companies have plants, and then the stupid world has plants, misinformation and disinformation being their only weapons. Can you see why education can protect you? I only harped on this because once the truth resonates with your soul their tools are powerless. Like seeing one of those disguised pictures. Once you finally see it, you can’t remember how you didn’t see it before. My part in getting the webpage up has been hampered by more incompetence and an utter contempt for ones service but they have been fired and new people are hired tomorrow. Any diligence I get from the new webmaster will be better. I’m demanding speed and no excuses. Hopefully results will appear shortly. I truly wish people would consider my situation as an opportunity to perform better more than a justification for incompetence, but this generation is deprived of anything not selfish.


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Starfish Prime said...

Government Hangs Innocent Man In Cold Blood

Land of the free rapidly deteriorating into totalitarian police state.

Irwin Schiff found guilty on all counts.

Starfish Prime said...

Here's my fear: that Kurt will end up going to trial..then having no regard to the Law, the judge will make sure that he is convicted..regardless of whether his beliefs are correct.

If God will let Irwin go to jail (that poor man..I am sad. So SO SOSOSOSOSOSOSO SAD RIGHT NOW. IRWIN NEEDS YOUR PRAYERS. OH MY GOD!) then He will let good men fall. He has left this Earth to Satan. There is no doubt.

tcob247 said...

Starfish wrote in another blog..

"Starfish Prime said...
This is the beginning of the End. We should storm the White House!!! "

OK....skank... time to back up your strong words
When are you going to do this?
I remember you saying that one is not patriotic if he doesnt stay in the fight

When are you going to storm the white house?
I want to see that
Do you have strength to back up your convictions??

All talk no action

Seen it in Utah said...

We know who's next. The big guys will be spending time in the Big House. The only real question is how far down the chain of Dorean the U.S. Attorneys office will be going.

By the way, there have been attorneys appointed to represent Heineman and Johnson. Heineman and Johnson have tried to use some of their parallel world law to have themselves bonded out (very unsuccessfully). It does not appear at this time that any resolution of these charges in favor of Heineman or Johnson is even remotely likely.

I attended a title insurers underwriting seminar this last week. A portion of that meeting was devoted to Dorean promoters and clients. A rather substantial number of former Dorean clients are now desperately trying to clean up the title to their properties now that they realize they are in real trouble. Some title underwriters are trying to help. Others feel that the Doreanites were trying to screw the mortgage company, and are unwilling to be helpful to people that they find already dishonest.

Seen it in Utah said...

Oh--another thing. At this seminar we were told that estimates have been made that over $64 million dollars have been taken in by Dorean agents and principals. Wonder where it is now? I seem to recall money being sent offshore.

complainers suck said...

Seen it in Utah said...
Oh--another thing. At this seminar we were told that estimates have been made that over $64 million dollars have been taken in by Dorean agents and principals.

Is this infomation coming from the same sources that claim banks loaned us money when we took out the "loan"? We know they wouldn't lie to us...........

yeahrightwhateverz said...

Dr. Fred, nice try, but this is yet another excuse after excuse and one LIE after another LIE. Oh, here we go, the holdup is because of incompetent people and it's the web masters fault now huh? First the client, now the web master. Gee, that sounds familiar, Deadwood used the same excuse for over 15 months.

Kind of like all the OTHER ME processes out there who kept on promising money and not ONE delivered. Yet, it is the client who is at fault because Kurt never kept to any of his promises. It is the client who needs to educate themselves, yet there is NOTHING POSTED HERE THAT'S EDUCATIONAL.

It is the client who is told to stay tuned to this blog for important updates. WTF, I come here to be subjected to SankFish's off topic BULLSHIT?

Kurt said, "There are certain conditions from a legal perspective that must be in place. The monies are already set aside." Are there ANY guarantees that no matter what happens with Kurt that the client will actually get any of these refunds, and not only the refunds, but MORE IMPORTANTLY the money that is so called in escrow, setup for those who lost their homes or suffered financially? You know, the money that the Li-Bolians say that will be distributed any day now?

Speaking of which, they've seemed to back off on the any day now claims. Seems to me that they were pitching this big time before their price increase. Oh, but they claim that this is what they're being told, great cop out. Oh, and another thing, don't think of mentioning any other ME processes on their conference call. They're the only one's allowed to mention another process, the 2500 free and clear titles who are no longer making their payments. Why don't they mention the 500 who either lost their homes, who are in foreclosure, or who've filed bankruptcy to keep their homes because of the process? God forbid their new clients find out the truth.

yeahrightwhateverz said...

How interesting is this article?

"Johnson was sentenced to five years and eight months in prison after being convicted in 1992 of fraud in connection with an investment scam based in Campbell. His father, Hollis Frederick Johnson, was sentenced to seven years, eight months. In court papers, state investigators said the Johnsons' company, Genesis International Ltd., owed investors millions of dollars when the business was shut down. Investors thought the money would be plowed into businesses throughout Europe. While some investors got their money back, investigators said the money was spent on items like a $227,000 yacht. Another $125,000 was transferred to a bank account in Belize."

Care to comment Kurt or Dr. Fred?

newyorklife said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
newyorklife said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
tcob247 said...

"Johnson was sentenced to five years and eight months in prison after being convicted in 1992 of fraud in connection with an investment scam based in Campbell.


What do you think of your hero now?

Care to cut and paste some more irrelevant info for us?

tcob247 said...

and you wonder why I want my money back????


Elmer Fudd said...

newyorklife said...
yeahrightwhateverz said...
he money that the Li-Bolians say that will be distributed any day now?

Speaking of which, they've seemed to back off on the any day now claims.

that's probably because if you check the flight records to eastern europe, you will see julian and knupp of the lie-"bolians" names on the iteniary trying to secure a letter of credit to back their lies and deceit.

Newyorklife tries to take blame away from Dorean and pass it onto other scammers..Don't worry Li-Bo will get theirs, but now it's Dorean's turn first!! Plenty of jail Cell's for all of you. Line em up "Sound of a Crackin whip" RAWHIDE...

Ace said...

TCOB, Very late last night Kurt put up a post just for you and now it is gone. Did you see it??? ACE

Clueless Fudd said...

ace, the post is still there. it's under "a simply solution"

elmer, go fuck yourself.

Judge Roy Bean said...

The supposed mountain is being revealed for the molehill it has always been.

So many bogus legal statements and prognostications have only demonstrated how far away from reality Johnson is.

If you think he's going to prevail with any of his riduculous claims, please send him some more money for those utterly useless CD's that can lead you too into the desert of untruth.

He's simply still selling bullshit and hoping people will fall for it.

He'll keep doing it even when they toss him in jail as a supposed martyr.

Marytr = money. Being your average crook = lots less money.

mogel said...

Seen it in Utah: What fool gave you your statistics? Even if you assume an average client paid as much as $3,500, which I think is high, this would mean that there are 18,285 clients to equal 64 million dollars taken in. If you honestly believe this, or have done the math, or believe the crap you hear at seminars, you truly are ignorant since you didn't pass 3rd grade math since it's IMPOSSIBLE that there are that many clients, nor can you or anyone else prove it by County Records. I thought Title Companies did searches & had the ability to find out such things through a name search? Obviously, a name search was NEVER done to find out the true number of clients. Are you sure you are an owner of a Title Company? If you believe there are that many clients, you'd probably believe anything or you're just making things up as usual to inflame. Well, you & your buddies, predicted by now all clients would be indicted too by now. That hasn't happened either.

Either way, all your ridiculous statements makes you look silly and damages any credibility you're attempting to portray. You remember there might be offshore monies somewhere, but you don't remember the amount & then you quote a totally ridiculous 64 million dollar figure.

Now that's real humour. Have you considered being a comic for a night job?


mogel said...

Tcob247: I'm just curious, what date did you officially become a Dorean client?

tcob247 said...

mid october of 2004

son of a prophet said...

anyone here at the last U.N. meeting by any chance???

....if not, check it out here --->

Peace of Yeshua be with you. (We are going to need His peace very soon.)

son of a prophet said... the way...IS there anyone STILL wondering, "whose Kingdom is this???"

I think not.


~~The Swami~~~ said...

Good post Mogel! Are you saying that it's possible that Seen It In Utah doesn't really own a title company? I'm shocked!!!!!!!!!!!!

livinginxs said...

Mogel - not to side with utah, but I think they might be taking into account the re-fi money that some of the clients recieved. Could that be possible?

Seen it in Utah said...


I find it very interesting how you find personal attacks and venom the answer to everything that does not make you happy with yourself and your heroes. I did not create the number. I merely relayed what was said in a seminar. And yes, the number given does in fact include monies sucked up from the fraudulent second mortgages taken out after the first foray into "mortgage elimination".

Maybe you need a valium.

yeahrightwhateverz said...

Hey BlowFish, these are the REAL issues that need discussing. Not your speculative, cut and paste, off topic B.S. rants. Get it now?

newyorklife said...

there is absolutely no way possible the even with refi's that dg accumlated over 60 million. there hasn't been that many refi's

Seen it in Utah said...

I never claimed to know the actual numbers. But, just throwing stuff out, if 1,000 people refinanced for an average of $100,000.00, that would be a hundred million. Any idea how many people actually succeeded in doing the refinance?

WillToFight said...

Your reaching SeenSomthingInUtah

You Schitzoid!

Shows you don't know shit!!!!!!

WillToFight said...

He works with Title Co's...???????????????

If that where the case then he should know what the numbers are.
There are not many Insurance underwriters in this country, and by now they all know whats' up!

Don't fall for the Bullshit. Took him two weeks to come back to this Blog.

He has been programmed to write that bull he wrote earlier about 64 million.

These asswholes have not presented anything of substance of fact that would show that Dorean was not correct from day one.

ALl they have is the backing of the money. The money controls this nation. It's called

Conflict of interest folks. It's simple.

Starfish Prime said...

AP - 1 hour, 45 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The White House on Tuesday sidestepped questions about whether Vice President Dick Cheney passed on to his top aide the identity of a CIA officer central to a federal grand jury probe. Notes in the hands of a federal prosecutor suggest that Cheney's chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, first heard of the CIA officer from Cheney himself, The New York Times reported in Tuesday's editions. A federal prosecutor is investigating whether the officer's identity was improperly disclosed.

WillToFight said...

Peace of Shit


You see a christmas bonus for gathering info from this site!

Sell out to the people. You asskissingwipingsuckinginhumanbloodsuckingwhore!

newyorklife said...

i would be willing to bet that no more than 30 have refi'd

WillToFight said...

We know he did Prime. Cheny is a criminal!

However, The issue becomes. The Piloraization of the masses.

We become poloarized by Dem/Rep.

I don't trust or agree completely with either.

There are many that should be in handcuffs in this current administration. And there should be many from the previous and prior to that.

Problem is the people like to take sides in this political debate. Look at our issues here? Would'nt we want to expose "right or wrong" whether the banks or fraud or fair? We should!

Conflict of Interest! Think about that phrase. Got to get paid! Dog eat dog! Capitalism! Divide and conquer!

The elite powers depend on Party line politics. They depend on rascism. They depend on religious differences. They are winning when these things continue to be a fabric of this nation.

I can no longer call it great. It is socio-pathic, greedy and destroyed by design!

WillToFight said...

I'd say less than 20 refied. The banks jumped on this quick. They would not respond to the presentations sent by dorean, but later attempted to block the re-fi's.

They knew the process was strong.

If they had allowed many like 1000's to refi, they would be exposed for the fraud they really are.

Conflict of Interest folks. SeenitInUtahSchitzoid just wants to continue to get paid by fruad!

Less than 100 got refied?

mogel said...

tcob247: You indicated that you FIRST heard of Kurt's tenancy at the Big House in the early part of 2005,(1st Las Vegas Conference) however, there was a conference call everyone was invited to listen to that happened in Dec. 2004 where Kurt admitted his stay at the Big House. There has been no deception or denying on this particular subject. Why didn't you listen to that call, since it would have been a couple months after you had signed up as a client & were probably gun-ho at the time? Here is the link. Prove it to yourself:
(Click on Thursday December 23 – K. Johnson Replay – 3 Hours 19 Minutes)

This is a good conference call to listen to simply because it indicates how Kurt felt about his process, how effective he believed it would be & why he believed so & how everything got started and how is it that the banks are being dishonest in the lending process.

What about all of the bad publicity that was out there in the newspapers that indicated his stay at the Big House? Did you also ignore or not bother to read ANY of the derogatory newspaper articles also indicating he spent some time at the Big House? This news came out prior to the Las Vegas conference too, so if you only heard of this at this conference for the first time, then it was due to not being diligent on your due diligence, would you not agree?

mogel said...

(Click on Thursday December 23 – K. Johnson Replay – 3 Hours 19 Minutes)

mogel said...

For some reason the conference call internet address is being cut off, maybe because it's so long. I will try to post it one more time:

Also add to the above URL address the following:


Hopefully that will work for you.

tcob247 said...

I did not hear about it until Las Vegas.
I was on a lot of conference calls, but I did not hear this one.
One person cannot possibly get every single piece of information that is available.
I tried.
I did not see any newspaper articles that were critical of the process.
Kurt did say that there only was a small percentage of the banks that were "misbehaving"
I also remember the repeated bragging about "over a thousand successful mortgage eliminations"

I agree with you that I did not do enough due diligence.

I knew that there was a risk.

That does not change my opinion that there were misleading info coming from agents, Kurt and CCR.

mogel said...

Seen It In Utah: There was NOT 1,000 people that refinanced. Let's just assume you don't know what you are talking about & that you have been guessing from day one. I'd be surprised if you or anyone else could show or prove more than 20 people that successfully refinanced if that many. Remember the alerts that went out to the title companies, about the Dorean Group, in 2004- you being a Title company owner you should know what I'm talking about? :o) That killed that option of refinance for almost everyone due to the Dorean Group being blacklisted.

Seen it in Utah said...

Like I said, I am only relaying what I was told. I have not taken the time or effort to scan the entire country for this stuff.

I have no idea how many people were able to refi. I personally do not know how much money was taken in by Doreanites. Don't bite my arm off--I am just sharing what I heard.

newyorklife said...

that's to be expected when you repeat 60+ million and offshore banking in the same sentence, especially if you cannot validate your statement.

mogel said...

Seen It in Utah: No I don't need to take a valium, I'd like people to do their own due diligence & seriously investigate the subjects they claim to be experts on. If you're not an expert, and haven't done your due diligence, then what validity do you carry? Have you studied both sides of the issue diligently & seriously that maybe, just maybe there are some serious legal issues that could validate the process? I've done that. How many conference calls have you attended? Do me a favor & listen to the conference call I just listed with an open mind. How many hours of time have you listened to proponents of the process? How much time have you spent listening to Kurt or Scott or someone that has extensively studied the subject? How open-minded are you really?

I can be very nice & most of the time I am. I can be very calm, & most of the time, I really am. I can be calm when everyone around me are losing their heads & in a crisis that's how I behave, believe it or not. Forgive me for not having any tolerance for stupidity and misinformation and disinformation. I don't think anyone should tolerate that. Maybe you believe that should be tolerated without dissent. No, you did not create the number, you accepted it, relayed it with no due diligence on your part, as if it was a fact coming out of your mouth, but when you present a ridiculously untrue financial figure & enjoin it with inflaming words to manipulate people's minds, I definitely think that is morally wrong. Maybe that's OK with you.

Also if you listened to some of Kurt's conference calls, you would also realize that he refers to his process as a "mortgage challenge", not "mortgage elmination", a favorite word of yours. Mortgage elimination infers a legitimate & legal debt existed in the first place. If you understood that, you wouldn't use words, like "fraudulent" "dishonest",
or "screw" to associate with the Dorean Group or their process.

If I called your mother a b*tch, but only said it because it was something I heard & it was relayed to me, does that make it excuseable & OK to relate? Would it still be excuseable for you to still be angry with me in this example? After all, it's not my word. It's a word I heard for example.

I think you need to take a REALITY PILL. You can only get that through diligent study though. I think it's interesting that you can use whatever verbage you think is appropriate, even though it's inflaming & misleading & you think that's OK as if you are some fair, INTELLIGENT & righteous person. Certain personalities definitely annoy me, so you're right on there.


livinginxs said...

Kurt and Mogel - tell us to get educated. Where is a good place to start? I am in Florida if that makes a difference.

mogel said...

Judge Roy Bean: How do you know the CD's are utterly useless & have no relevant information? And you are a Judge that hasn't even examined the evidence????? How prejudicial is that? They haven't been shipped out yet, so you obviously haven't listened to them. Maybe you believe in the "frozen evaluation concept" of a person which is utterly ridiculous which implies people can't succeed after failing once. If a person is unsuccessful once, they are unsuccessful their entire life must be your credo. In other words, you must believe a person is defined by their past. Your statements exhibit your lack of faith that you possess. How ironic that you would use the word, "mountains" in your last post. With the faith of a mustard seed, the smallest of all seeds, you CAN MOVE MOUNTAINS. Obviously, your faith is even less than a mustard seed. What a revelation. :o)


mogel said...

Seen It In Utah said: "And yes, the number given does in fact include monies sucked up from the fraudulent second mortgages"

I suppose you want to emphasize the words, "FACT" AND "FRAUDULENT" in this sentence to show us what your true agenda really is. Course the verbage, "sucked" is also revealing too.


mogel said...

Livinginxs: Email me at:

and I'll at least save you a little time in your quest & I'll try to be as helpful as I can & I'll at least attempt to answer your excellent & humble question.


partysecured said...

I would hope soon that the people on this blog that insist that Kurt Johnson jumped into the "mortgage challenge" business for your "money" that you would finally put this nonsense to rest.

How much jail time = loss of freedom can one person (two people) subject themselves to and equate it to the $1500 that you forked over.
(you paid this amount for what? due to a lack of education on your part not knowing how your mortgage transaction went down since if you did you would have either a. argued the validity of your mortgage contract yourself or b. found that as you educated yourself of the entanglement that it was just something you could not fight by yourself and employed Kurt and Scott.)

If you decided to jump in the Dorean process for any other reason then you guessed right you only have yourselves to blame.

I guess you all thought that Kurt had this elaborate scheme to take your $1500 and get as many as he could to go for it while the getting was good (even while his partner was in jail never forseeing that this would too be his fate soon) spend oh maybe 40 - 50 years in the klink give or take for good behavior then slip back out into the free world to spend all of you poor sap's money?

And you decided that this was going to happen before or after you gave up the $?

What you hopefully did was to employ the services of Kurt and Scott to help you fight a battle that you educated yourself on first, then decided because you don't know a goddamn thing about contract law and commercial banking that the services that they were offering sounded valid and you decided to back their play with your consent and blessing so your children and your children's children have a happier earth to live, free of the bondages of a mathematically impossible monetary system.

Or you just simply fell for another one of those sick and twisted scams so you could justify wasting your time bitching and complaining about how "woe is me, I was promised this and that again but because I have no real powers of my own other than to take the victim's role so I know, I'll get even I'm going to show everybody my brilliance on my web blog postings and how once again life isn't living up to my expectations of it because I've been swindled by the Dorean group.

I know it's easy for most to blame others for the shit you yourself are responsible for but seriously it's about time you either accept responsibility for your own shit or pipe down.

For those of you who think posting about this guy did this and they took this amount of money from who is going to dissuade the people who got involved with this process for the real reasons --- it really ain't happening.

For those imbisiles on here thinking they are doing a good deed by posting their bullshit so there won't be any more "victims" of the Dorean process I hope your good deeds don't go unpunished. You people should be running for public office we could really use your great foresight in areas that really matter.

partysecured said...

livinginxs said:

Kurt and Mogel - tell us to get educated. Where is a good place to start? I am in Florida if that makes a difference.

I'll give you a big piece right here. It may not apply to your current situation now but if you are in the mortgage challenge process realize that contract law is the law that reigns supreme in your world or anyone elses for that matter.

Kurt and Scott seem to know it well and if the beast that they are up against abide by it (instead of using force which is the chosen method used by those that think the law is "do what I say because I said so") then they will succeed.

If everyone understood that we are all the time contracting with one another commercially and understood the principals behind commerce and contracting that we wouldn't be in half the messes we end up in. We are all responsible for ourselves and our own creations and doings.

Commerce: all and every interchange between people, including (but not limeited to ) sexual intercourse, exchange of ideas, and the ordinary buying/selling in the marketplace to which the term "commerce is usually applied. All law is contract; every interchange between people is contract; all commerce is contract. It is a timeless and universal maxim of law: "Contract makes the law."

An unrebutted affidavit, claim or charge (no matter how preposterous, criminal or illegitimate) stands as the truth in commerce.

All matters must be expressed to be resolved.

The above cited maxims are necessarily true because unless what is asserted is rebutted or disputed by the affected party there is no basis for anyone to know or act in any manner contrarey to the unrebutted/undisputed claim or charge.

This is a free will universe you get more free will i.e. choices when you get more edu-ma-cated. Not too much edu-ma-cation = little choice or not too much free will. Little education = ignorance = more control over u since you choose it to be this way by letting those with more education run your affairs for you.

No one in the universe can speak for you other than you (but this is why you employed Kurt and Scott as your trusties who know how to rebutt and dispute on your behalf).
Get it.

Per universal contract law, in order for a contract to be valid, (i.e. a contract at all) it must be formulated in accordance with specific essentials. Not just "cuz we say it's this way whether you likes it or not".

Most fundamentally, a contract is the formalization and codification of an agreement. In order to achieve agreement, ALL parties must understand the full scope and nature, the full terms and conditions, of the proposed contract, or no agreement and hence no contract exists.

People enter into contracts in order to be bettered in their own terms. No one enters into a contract to be diminished, cheated, or destroyed.

Any purported "contract" that fails to be characterized by mutual good faith, meeting of the minds, open and full disclosure of all terms and conditions, is either void or voidable. It is flawed from inception and can at least be rendered null and void by the election of the deceived or defrauded party.

And hopefully to prove that this isn't some "pull it out of your ass" "parallel universe" law as some here think, here is the California Civil Code's take on contract law.


It is essential to the existing of a contract that there should be:
1. PArties capable of contracting (capacity)

2. Their consent;

3. Lawful object: and,

4. A sufficient cause or consideration.

All persons are capable of contracting, except minors, persons of unsound mind, and persons deprived of civil rights.

The consent of the parties to a contract must be:
1. Free:

2.Mutual; and,

3. Communicated by each other to the other.


1. Duress; (let's see your driver's liscence and registration)

2. Menace;

3. Fraud;

4. Undue influence; or

5. Mistake

So for those that would still like to think that "well you singed the promissary note saying that you would pay back the little ole banks all that money they lenteded to you and its all a big scam what you rotten peoples are doing to scam the poor old banks out of their hard earned paper" the issue that Kurt and Scott that you so happilly sided with are doing is putting the poor little ole bankers to the ole contract test.

Did the banks give equal consideration in their agreement with you? Did they disclose all the relavent facts pertaining to the transaction? This is where I hope you do your homework to finally see who is screwing who.

In law there is a difference between "assent" and "consent" One may assent to fraud, but one cannot "consent" to fraud however because "consent" requires actual agreement-- true meeting of the minds, full disclosure and good faith.

I hope this helps and gives you a head start in some educating yourself and realizing that no matter what anyone on this blog may think this is the real issue that you are dealing with in all of your affairs and hope you realize these truths and know that this is basically what Kurt and Scott have a profound knowledge of and realize that if we all would understand these basic principals then Kurt and Scott wouldnt have to be trying to fight this from the inside.

It is high time to realize that we are in the messes we are in for a lack of education and knowledge and until you find out what it is you truely want to do in this life you live that everything you have, don't have, situations you are in are directly related to you and nobody else. Thinking that it is due to somebody or something else gives your contracting power away.