Thursday, July 06, 2006

I can name that tune in 1 Note

Since musical chairs is played with the promissory note in a mortgage transaction I thought I would take a little muse at its value. The average person doesn’t understand the mortgage transaction if done honestly and therefore has greater confusion in our fraudulent system. The entire transaction pivots on the promissory note. Without the note there is no transaction. That should be the first clue it has value. What makes the note valuable? It is the promise. A man’s word is his bond. Bonds are promises, surety, and financial assets. Everyone knows a T-Bill has value. The Federal Reserve issues no currency except in trade for these bonds. What backs a T-Bill? It is the good faith and credit of the United States. Do you know what the good faith and credit of the United States is? It is you! Actually it is your promise. Your promise consists of your labor and intention. If your promise is enough to float the largest transactions of the world, it has enough value for a real estate transaction. When you sign that note the value of you and your promise attaches giving it value and making it a financial asset. That value belongs to you and no one else. It can only be transferred at law by consent and just compensation or what they call consideration. If something has value crooks can be found. Unfortunately these are government licensed and sanctioned. They steal your value and even convince you to pay for it. We deserve it too since we are more interested in convenience than wisdom. What you think of as debt is really taking your long labor and selling it short. Don’t get short changed in your short sale!

46 comments:

son of a prophet said...

Daniel 12.....


"...and the wicked shall not see the end coming..."

provb1022 said...

Still trying to locate where my promise to pay is. Seems they those that should understand where it is don't seem to know even though they initiated the foreclore. But... they are being so helpful and "unbiased" as they say....HA.. I will keep searching!!!

mogel said...

W: There is no argument that the Bible literally says that "God created evil." However, I don't accept that this is true. It defies logic and makes God responsible in part for evil and sin, and "God cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance, otherewise, he would cease to be God because being the author of evil, that makes him evil, which I can't accept either. Now if good and evil is a choice, and if good and evil has always existed, then, God has no part in it. As I said before I believe there are mistranslations in the Bible. Certainly in my view, that is one of those mistakes. For example, how do you explain Kurt's remark:

Mt. 27:5 Judus departed and went and hanged himself: Go ye and do likewise LK. 10:37

Course there are pages & pages of contradictions & mistakes. Just read the website here with a serious open mind: www.evilbible.com

If you believe the Bible to be literally 100% true as a standard to follow yourself, the question is are you dead yet because you hanged yourself too? Jesus said, "keep my commandments" & "come follow me." Do you literally follow everything even when it defies reason & common sense?

Let me ask you another question, can God be tempted? Is sin ever desirable to God? Is sin good? Didn't God say that all his works of creation he made he called good? Isn't good and evil diametrically opposed to each other? If you say yes, God can be tempted, than, does this not mean that sin is desirable in some degree if even the very thought is even entertained by a holy Being? If you say no, God can't even be tempted, then, why did Satan even bother to tempt Jesus with the 3 great temptations on the Mount during his 40 day fast? Did Satan believe he had a chance in making Jesus possibly sucumb to evil, or is Satan so stupid he can't even see and know that doing such is an exercise in utter futility, as if being thrown out of Heaven with 1/3 of Heaven wasn't enough to learn that truth and lesson. Now if you say, Satan just can't help it because it's like an addiction to him that can't be cured, then, I'll accept that. Maybe you have a better explanation.

down but not out said...

Mogel said,

Jesus said, "keep my commandments" & "come follow me." Do you literally follow everything even when it defies reason & common sense?


Give an example of where following a commandment, any commandment defies reason amd common sense

down but not out said...

Mogel,

Do you believe the book of mormon is literally 100% true?

down but not out said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
down but not out said...

mogel,

I checked out the website evilbible.com . So you align yourself with athiests? Gee that certainly is an unbiased perspective isn't it?

From the bits I read the authors of the site are themselves misquoting the Bible to fit their agenda.

Consider the source.
It would be like a site deriding the Civil Rights movement being sponsored by the KKK.

papertiger said...

"... the value of you and your promise attaches giving it value and making it a financial asset." Kurt Johnson

Yes, except that it doesn't say that in the contract; therefore your labor is not consideration for the contract-

mogel said...

Give an example of where following a commandment, any commandment defies reason amd common sense
________________________________

Judas hanged himself, go do likewise.

provb1022 said...

Mogel said
If you believe the Bible to be literally 100% true as a standard to follow yourself, the question is you dead yet because you hanged yourself too? Jesus said, "keep my commandments" & "come follow me." Do you literally follow everything even when it defies reason & common sense?

Literally true has nothing to do with taking things out of context.
Kurts point had to do with just that… taking things out of context and justifying anything you want the Bible to say. You can do this with any book not just the Bible.

God is not opposed to reason and common sense but often times things do not compute in our head because God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. There again are many examples of Jesus giving a commandment to his disciples that did not compute in their thinking. He spoke to their spirit man and even though they did not understand the commandment they obeyed and saw the truth of what Jesus said later. Again Jesus says His words are spirit and they are life.

provb1022 said...

Mogel said
As I said before I believe there are mistranslations in the Bible. Certainly in my view, that is one of those mistakes. For example, how do you explain Mogels remark about the word "mansions".. tranlated as happy families???
Check it out for yourself Mogel but all 8 translations I looked at never translated the word mansion as happy familys. Maybe thats Mormon doctrine. Did I remember that right? The word has to do with "dwelling places" in the greek.

mogel said...

I checked out the website evilbible.com . So you align yourself with athiests? Gee that certainly is an unbiased perspective isn't it?
________________________
I agree it's a bias website, however, how do you explain the many contradictions then? Agreeing with certain points from an atheist, doesn't make you an atheist either. Someone agreeing with certain points I make doesn't make them a latter day saint either (Mormon) for that matter. There are contradictions and missing scripture that exist in the Bible that only an unreasonable person would deny. I also realize that no scripture is of private interpretation which means the original scripture had a specific & defined message or meaning, not subject to MANY different interpretations.

In answer to your other question, I refer you to Ether 12: 23-28 (good stuff there)
& the 8th Article of Faith:
"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly, we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God."

mogel said...

"... the value of you and your promise attaches giving it value and making it a financial asset." Kurt Johnson

Yes, except that it doesn't say that in the contract; therefore your labor is not consideration for the contract-
____________________________
So if the lender doesn't spell out exactly in the contract that they risked their OWN assets and specify clearly that they followed generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP), that logically the lender gave no consideration too? Oh good, we can all go home and have the celebration party since the lending contract is void due to lack of consideration on the part of the lender. There is no fraud on the part of Dorean, case dismissed-- for you can't defraud a lender if they gave no consideration in the first place.

down but not out said...

mogel said,

Judas hanged himself, go do likewise

Is that an example of mormon love.


I do not believe Mt 27:5 is a commandment of God.
Try again and read slowly. Give me a true example of where a commandment, any commandment defies reason and common sense.


There are contradictions and missing scripture that exist in the Bible.


Give one, just one.

mogel said...

Prov 10: 22

Tell me what your 8 translations say about these scriptures & the original Greek meaning:

"No man has seen God at any time."
John 1: 18

Math 5: 8 "Blessed are the pure in heart; for they shall SEE God."

And then, tell me how the different translations explain that Moses saw God face to face as did many other prophets of old ALSO saw God. Which is it? How can one worship God in spirit and truth in light of such glaring errors because that's what we are suppose to do? Are we suppose to worship an unseeable God, or one that is personal that we can see, one that has body, parts, and passions?

Is there an error somewhere or what? At least mansions & families are somewhat close. After all, at least families live in mansions. But are they really close to their original meaning?

"In my fathers house are many mansions: If it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."

I guess the apostles could have been thinking that Heaven was just one dwelling place or one motel, and that maybe they were thinking things might get overcrowded, so they must have expressed some concerns to Jesus about the shortage of real estate and living quarters. If there are MANY mansions,(dwelling places) as you say, then obviously there is plenty of vacancy of real estate, so what need is there to prepare a place unless of course the dwelling places were dirty or something or maybe someone in Heaven wasn't doing their cleaning job, so Jesus has to do things HIMSELF to prepare, you know all of those lazy angels up there. Then again, God's house is a God of order I always was taught. One can only assume that Heaven was a house of DISORDER for a long time then since there was some "preparing" that never took place.

Course if "mansions" really intended to have a different meaning, then, maybe it may make more sense using the word "family" instead of "dwelling place". Just a thought. Now if that's the case than this scripture really blows the lid off & explains the Bible scripture EVEN better: D&C 132: 18-25 (continuation of the seed or continuation of "many families forever & ever). Obviously Jesus was making some huge point, otherwise, he would not have said, "if it were not so, I would have told you".

down but not out said...

mogel said,

Tell me what your 8 translations say about these scriptures & the original Greek meaning:

"No man has seen God at any time."
John 1: 18

Math 5: 8 "Blessed are the pure in heart; for they shall SEE God."



Greek mindset vs Hebrew mindest.

John 1:18 is referring to the spirtual being or essence of God.

Mt 5: 8 refers to being with God in the world to come.

Nice try.

BTW are you going to answer my previouse questions?

Is the book of mormon 100% literally true.


Show me a commandment that defies common sense.

down but not out said...

The doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) are very interesting. Most of the 'odd' ones are not initially taught to potential converts. But they should be. Instead, "they are revealed later as one matures and gains the ability to accept them." The LDS Church tries to make its official doctrines appear Christian but what underlies those Christian sounding terms is far from Christian in meaning.
Following are the teachings of its officials throughout the years. Please note that these teachings are documented from Mormon writers, not anti-Mormon writers.
Finally, many Mormons respond that most of the the citations below are not from official Mormon writings, as if that disproves the doctrines they teach. If they are not official, fine. But, if not, then why have the Mormon apostles and high officials taught them, written them, and why are their books sold in Mormon bookstores? The truth is, the following is what Mormons are taught.



Atonement
"Jesus paid for all our sins when He suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane," (Laurel Rohlfing, “Sharing Time: The Atonement,” Friend, Mar. 1989, 39.)
"We accept Christ's atonement by repenting of our sins, being baptized, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and obeying all of the commandments," (Gospel Principles, Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1979, pg. 68.)
Baptism
Baptism for the dead, (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. II, p. 141.) This is a practice of baptizing each other in place of non-Mormons who are now dead. Their belief is that in the afterlife, the "newly baptized" person will be able to enter into a higher level of Mormon heaven.
Bible
"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. . ." 8th Article of Faith of the Mormon Church.
"Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God." (1 Nephi 13:28).
Book of Mormon
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, 4:461.)
Devil, the
The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, page 192.)
Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.)
A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god." (Mormon Doctrine, page 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, page 8.)
God
God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333.)
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s..." (D&C 130:22).
God is in the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3.)
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345
God the Father had a Father, (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105.)
God resides near a star called Kolob, (Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428.)
God had sexual relations with Mary to make the body of Jesus, (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, p. 218, 1857; vol. 8, p. 115.) - This one is disputed among many Mormons and not always 'officially' taught and believed. Nevertheless, Young, the 2nd prophet of the Mormon church taught it.
"Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
God, becoming a god
After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.)
"Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (DC 132:20).
God, many gods
There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.)
"And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3)
God, mother goddess
There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.)
God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.)
God, Trinity
The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35.)
Gospel, the
The true gospel was lost from the earth. Mormonism is its restoration, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 182-185.)
Consists of laws and ordinances: "As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements -- 'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.'" (Articles of Faith p. 79)
Heaven
There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial, Mormon Doctrine, p. 348.
Holy Ghost, the
The Holy Ghost is a male personage, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, (Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, page 118; Journal of Discources, Vol. 5, page 179.)
Jesus
The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, page 129.)
Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163; Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15.)
Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856.)
"Therefore we know that both the Father and the Son are in form and stature perfect men; each of them possesses a tangible body . . . of flesh and bones." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 38).
"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8: p. 115).
"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Mormon Doctrine," by Bruce McConkie, p. 547).
"Christ Not Begotten of Holy Ghost ...Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!" (Doctrines of Salvation, Joseph Fielding Smith, 1954, 1:18).
"Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh ..." (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, God the Father, compiled by Gordon Allred, pg. 150).
Joseph Smith
If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670.)
Pre-existence
We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth, (Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, p. 218.)
The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, page 129.)
The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," (Mormon Doctrine, page 192.)
Prophets
We need prophets today, the same as in the Old Testament, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 444-445.)
Salvation
"One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation." (Miracle of Forgiveness, Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206.)
A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god." (Mormon Doctrine, page 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, page 8.)
Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856.)
Good works are necessary for salvation, Articles of Faith, p. 92.)
There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188.)
"The first effect [of the atonement] is to secure to all mankind alike, exemption from the penalty of the fall, thus providing a plan of General Salvation. The second effect is to open a way for Individual Salvation whereby mankind may secure remission of personal sins (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 78-79.)
"As these sins are the result of individual acts it is just that forgiveness for them should be conditioned on individual compliance with prescribed requirements -- 'obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.'" (Articles of Faith p. 79).
"This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts" (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).
"We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do," (2 Nephi 25:23).
Trinity, the
The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man." (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35.)
"Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God [anyhow]--three in one and one in three. . .It is curious organization… All are crammed into one God according to sectarianism (Christian faith). It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God--he would be a giant or a monster." (Joseph Smith, Teachings, 372).
Some Mormons may disagree with a few of the points listed on this page, but all of what is stated here is from Mormon authors in good standing of the Mormon church.

neodemes said...

moogie asks:

"For example, how do you explain Kurt's remark:

Mt. 27:5 Judus departed and went and hanged himself: Go ye and do likewise LK. 10:37"

That was your boy deliberately twisting scripture, while addressing me, if you recall, with the message being to hang myself.

That is just another example of your boy's fruit. He tries to create the illusion that he is chosen and inspired by our beloved Savior.

My guess he will experience an "I never knew you" at some point.

moogie asks:

"Tell me what your 8 translations say about these scriptures & the original Greek meaning:

"No man has seen God at any time."
John 1: 18

Math 5: 8 "Blessed are the pure in heart; for they shall SEE God.""

Not to long ago you lectured us about the use of past and present tense regarding something or other.

Put on your thinking cap moogie and try real hard...

has seen

shall see

take a break and an aspirin if you need to.


The bible makes it pretty clear there is ONE God.

The original sin involved trying to be god, did it not?

Mormonism is the path to somewhere, but God won't be at the end of it.

REPENT BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!

You came into this world for one reason. Fellowship with God.

I pray you find your way.

neodemes said...

Jesus = God

Exd 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Jhn 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

neodemes said...

"Moses saw God face to face "

Where, moogie?

evilbible.com

Why would you send anyone there?

Maybe you really don't believe (in) anything?

Are you intentionally setting out stumbling blocks?

neodemes said...

Kurt, oh spiritually led one

Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

or, if you prefer

Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.

You say the banks owe you?

I say, so what?

What is the spirit-filled thing to do?

mogel said...

Is the book of mormon 100% literally true?
________________________

I would say yes. Do you have some rebuttal to that?

mogel said...

Down but Not Out: Some Mormons may disagree with a few of the points listed on this page, but all of what is stated here is from Mormon authors in good standing of the Mormon church.
______________________________
Only ignornant Mormons would disagree with those doctrines you listed. Excellent compilation of research I might add. I didn't realize you knew as much as you do. Now don't I feel silly. Not sure where you got all of that, but I would say that all of it is stable & true doctrine & all should be supported by Bible teachings too or at least Bible teachings won't contradict what you posted with the excellent foot not authorities.

I believe most aren't ready to hear all of that though, so I'm not so sure that converts should be exposed to as much as you have thrown out there. It's a bit much, don't you think for the beginner?

mogel said...

"foot NOTES & authorities". Pardon my spelling.

mogel said...

"Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors"
______________________________

Nemo, your ignorance of a basic Christian doctrine as simple as repentence is appaling. Here are the steps to true repentence & what God expects:(1) recognition, (2) Godly sorrow, (3) confession,(4) Ask forgivness to all those involved (5) Restitution of the sin (6) Forsake the sin.

So part of the repentence process is making things right (restitution). God does not let things go ( your definition of forgiveness) without restitution & a complete repentence. Again, you are taking a part of the gospel & throwing the rest out AS USUAL TO SUIT YOUR OWN ITCHING EARS. That is not Christian. That's just perversion. That's like having a gospel of mercy, with no justice, or a gospel of justice with no mercy. Or a gospel of judgment, without any rewards, or a gospel of judgment with no punishments. Or a gospel of hell with no heaven.

I suppose you think the great & final judgment day when you stand before God, you'll probably say to God too: "Forget about it. So what". It's a waste of time to rehash things mentality, just forget about it. The Forgive me with no consequences mentality. All tresspasses of law have consequences. How hypocritical of you to wish that I get charged with fraud too or Scott & Kurt get punished for the felons you believe they are & then on the other hand to espouse your crap.

Did Jesus say to the prostitute: "Go your way & forget about it." No, he said, "Go your way & sin no more."

You're such a spin doctor. Keep tap dancing.

mogel said...

Nemo said: "You came into this world for one reason. Fellowship with God."

I DISAGREE. ALL OF US ALREADY HAD FELLOWSHIP WITH HIM BEFORE WE WERE BORN, EVEN SATAN AND THE ANGELS, SO THAT COULDN'T BE THE ONLY ONE REASON. HE SAID TO JONAH, "BEFORE YOU WERE FORMED IN THE BELLY I KNEW THEE." I THINK YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT AS USUAL. I KNOW JESUS HAD A PREMORTAL LIFE TOO.

MOSES SAW GOD & SPOKE TO HIM FACE TO FACE AS A MAN SPEAKETH TO ANOTHER MAN: Exo. 34: 9-11
& Moses 1: 10-14 (more clear)

mogel said...

Nemo said: "Not to long ago you lectured us about the use of past and present tense regarding something or other."
________________________
And your point is?........ Maybe that no one has seen God in the past, but may in the future? Do you even know what you are saying?

Diguratively speaking, Nemo, Kurt knows that you have already hung yourself. I think that was one of those "past tense" things you are lecturing me about, so if you think that Kurt was insinuating that you should in the future go out & literally hang yourself, then, I think you are sadly mistaken & you are the one struggling with the past & future tense thing. Or in the alternative, maybe you are just paranoid or maybe you just have a persecution complex or something like that being the matyr that you are with the great cause you have undertaken with the huge risks that you display by your courageous character of removing all the stumbling blocks towards the truth that you see in the way of all the victims out there that you so dearly care for. Am I right, or am I right?

mogel said...

Time to go to bed when I can't type correctly: "Figuratively speaking".

WillToFight said...

Thanks Kurt

Your words in fact and truth make for the good fight!

WillToFight said...

provb1022 said...

Still trying to locate where my promise to pay is. Seems they those that should understand where it is don't seem to know even though they initiated the foreclore. But... they are being so helpful and "unbiased" as they say....HA.. I will keep searching!!!
___________________

Steady the course, we will get to the bottom of this! To the good fight!

neodemes said...

go your way and scam no more.

:-)

down but not out said...

mogel said,

I believe most aren't ready to hear all of that though, so I'm not so sure that converts should be exposed to as much as you have thrown out there. It's a bit much, don't you think for the beginner?




SOUNDS LIKE A TRUE CULT TO ME. LET S NOT GIVE THEM THE TRUTH OF WHAT WE BELIEVE UNTIL THEY HAVE BEEN THOUROUGHLY INDOCTRINATED INTO OUR CHURCH.

WillToFight said...

DownButNotOut

I'm not into you alls dialogue on Mormon/Christian. I have respect for them all.

That is not to say I see disrespect in anyones questions about either.

I just want to ask you, and this is in reference to labeling me!

You thought or think I am left or right or......

My question to you:

How do you separate your individual Left from your Right? I do not want definitions/labels/generalizations.

What do you know?

WillToFight said...

Neo Said....

go your way and scam no more.

______________
Neo you epitemize a scamm. You don't have enough knowledge to direct toward fact or truth!

you are not even a Neophyte!

WillToFight said...

Neo you are neglegent!

You must pay to put out falsehood!

mogel said...

SOUNDS LIKE A TRUE CULT TO ME. LET S NOT GIVE THEM THE TRUTH OF WHAT WE BELIEVE UNTIL THEY HAVE BEEN THOUROUGHLY INDOCTRINATED INTO OUR CHURCH.
_____________________________
To the sincere and ready, all of that information and doctrine is out there and available anyway. Whether someone chooses to really feast upon the word of God is always up to them. The truth is that most members don't even read, study, understand and appreciate the scriptures that they ALREADY have. Nothing is hidden. We learn line upon line, precept upon precept was only the point I was making.
D&C 84: 54-55: "And your minds in time past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you just received---which vanity and unbelief HAS BROUGHT THE WHOLE CHURCH UNDER CONDEMNATION. And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, EVEN ALL. And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant even the Book of Mormon, and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written. That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father's kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourage and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion."

Another place Joseph receives a revelation where the Lord is chastizes him too. If Joseph was making these things up, why would he do that?

I don't think a charlatan would put all of his people under condemantion & also chastize himself for weaknesses in another scripture. Not exactly one of the subtle tactics that a cult leader uses you know.

mogel said...

Will said: "you are not even a Neophyte!"
________________________
Yea, Neo, STOP being just a phyte. :o) in the things that you are and do. It just isn't becoming of a humble and spiritual man.

WillToFight said...

Mogel said...

Yea, Neo, STOP being just a phyte. :o) in the things that you are and do. It just isn't becoming of a humble and spiritual man.
_______________________________

I never new why you entertain this person anyway!

I have asked you that question before.

He has never answered a question posed to him, he has only tried to push his twisted mindset to discourage people from speaking out!

He is a virus a cancer. He doesn't even understand what he is!

I asked him to go question for question! He ignored that!

I don't need to quote anything to deal with this idiot!

My words your words! You idea of what is going on vs. mine! No religious dogma allowed.

Can you do that Neoprogrammedinonedirection
withnoopinioncreatedfromyour
thoughtsaboutasubject
basedonfacttruthbutsomeoneelses
thereforehavingnoexperienceinthe
matterandsubseqeuntlynoknowledgeof
theissueyouattempttospeakabout!

Oh he called me a name! I can't answer the quesition. Let's ignore that person, they are not civil.

YOU PHONEY!

mogel said...

Nemo said: "Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.

You say the banks owe you?

I say, so what?

What is the spirit-filled thing to do?"
_______________________________
Nemo, there are always only TWO choices, you repent of the wrong doing, or you suffer the consequences. The lenders/banks/government have a choice & that's what it is.

REPENT OR SUFFER. That's the choice. By the offer on the table of 80 billion being accepted, that's the remedy for the banks to repent. If they don't, and take this to trial and continue the charade, well, the other option is SUFFERING. Does the System want this, the other option which is SUFFERING? No one should want the other option.

neodemes said...

mogel sez:
God does not let things go ( your definition of forgiveness)

******

Did I define forgiveness? Where was that?

Hey, willy. I believe your face is leaking something toxic. You might want to have that checked out.

Pax.

mogel said...

Nemo asked: "Are you intentionally setting out stumbling blocks?"
___________________________
If God created evil, is God intentionally setting out stumbling blocks?

mogel said...

"The original sin involved trying to be god, did it not?"
__________________________________

No, 2 Nephi Chapt. 2 explains the purpose of the Fall & "original sin" as you call it. I don't buy that original sin happened with the Fall. Didn't Satan commit a sin in the pre-earth life rebelling against God & wasn't that why he was thrown out? Or maybe you think Satan's acts were not a sin prior to the Fall of Adam & Eve?

If God didn't know that Adam & Eve would make the choice they did & wanted continued fellowship, he WOULDN'T have placed the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden & wouldn't have forordained a Saviour before the foundations of the World to atone for their sin & consequent sins thereafter due to children born to Adam & Eve.

God knew that Adam & Eve would take the fruit & then God gave them contradictory commandments initially to fulfill but then gave them a choice because God can't be responsible for sin.

Adam seeing that he couldn't fulfill the 1st & greater & more important commandment to multiply & replenish the earth once Eve fell, seeing his dilmena that she would be kicked out & Adam would be alone, Adam finally decided at that point, his choices were taken away from him, so he then at that point, partook of the fruit too. He didn't do it due to Eve's promptings, he did it because He wanted to follow God, especially his higher & more important commandment which he couldn't fulfill due to Eve's physically changed state. The fall was a step upward in man's spiritual evolution, not a step downward as most Christian churches teach. See 1 Timothy 2: 14.

Eve was no dummy, but God was more displeased with her because she was deceived by the serpent & listened to Satan's promptings. She realized that in order to have children, & be as the gods & know good from evil, the intelligent thing to do would be to decide & take & eat of the fruit too. There were consequences with doing that, but they were sure worth it in the long run. Later she realized due to her changed mental & physical state, due to the effects of the fruit, she saw that she was naked & was no longer innocent & then they both hid from God.

neodemes said...

mogel said...

Nemo said: "Not to long ago you lectured us about the use of past and present tense regarding something or other."
________________________
And your point is?........ Maybe that no one has seen God in the past, but may in the future? Do you even know what you are saying?

**********************************

The future being in Heaven, as opposed to mortal life.

Where did you get happy families from mansions?

Mansions (monai) - from menw, to abide, abiding places - also translated as rooms

mogel said...

Nemo said: Where did you get happy families from mansions?
_________________________________
As I said before "mansions" is a mistranslation. Just like "happy families" was a mistranslation from what I originally said which was "families" although if they are in Heaven (celestial kingdom) you would think they are happy.

To understand how or why this could have happened to some parts of the Bible read 1 Nephi 13: 21-42.

neodemes said...

To understand how or why this could have happened to some parts of the Bible read 1 Nephi 13: 21-42

*******************************

You can keep your false doctrines, thanks.

The Word of God is enough.

Joe and the gang were false prophets.

Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

mogel said...

Nemo said: Joe and the gang were false prophets.

Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
__________________________________

Are you referring to some specific prophecy that you believe didn't come to pass that Joseph Smith uttered? Not sure why you quoted
Deuteronomy.