Tuesday, July 04, 2006

Justice of the Highest Order

We all have our selfish sense of justice. The evil of this perceived virtue is the vigilante we all love made popular by Bronson and Eastwood. God though has a justice of a higher order and it is a good thing otherwise we would all be eternally condemned. What if in His brilliance He designed a justice of this kind into our evil judicial system? Think about some of His truths. You become great by service. You live by dying. You prosper by giving. You fall by pride. These are not Aristitilian Logic of A cannot be A and not A at the same time but paradoxes. You can’t give with the intent to prosper or go up by going down. You are going up by going down. It is this kind of truth that misses most people and may not be caught if hidden in this beast design. What if pleading guilty was freedom? Not pleading guilty to be freed but truly recognizing your guilt and being sentenced. What if losing your identity was the best way to obtain it? Perhaps accusation and shame is necessary to receive honor and glory. It certainly worked that way with Christ. I’m beginning to suspect there is a deep truth hidden here that goes behind the STRAWMAN, jurisdiction, business and all the other obvious arguments. I believe I’ll have something to teach on this soon. In conjunction with this topic I want to thank you all for your week of prayer. It was timely and generous. We are very close now our case is settled in August the latest. Let us all rally our faith for the finish. Christ who authored our faith also finishes it. Blessed men go THROUGH their valleys of weeping PS. 84:5 they don’t get stuck there. Our journey has been tough and tearful but it was never permanent. Our detractors ridiculed and hoped it would be but the terrain is changing.

74 comments:

down but not out said...

Mogel,

I believe that the Mormon church forbade membership of Blacks, and Native Americans, something about them not having souls? This was directly out of the "revelation" of Smiths.

But due to increased pressure by civil rights groups they changed thier "scriptures" to allow Blacks and Indians into the church.

So what can be concluded by this turn around?

1. God is a racist who created beings without souls.
2. The book of Mormon can be changed to suit the needs of the organization. (changing Gods word is O.K. if enough external pressure is wielded)
3. It was Smith who was a racist and a biggot and he decided when he was getting his "revelation" to exclude certain ethnic populations from the church.

You tell us please.

light1rae said...

Would you guys start your own blog and leave us to the case in point the dorean group. We are not interested in your subject matter.
Thank you!

;)

light1rae said...

Kurt and Scott thank you for the good news about

"We are very close now our case is settled in August the latest. Let us all rally our faith for the finish."

Thank you and as always STAY THE COURSE....

;)
r&p

down but not out said...

mogel said,

YOU ARE PROBABLY CORRECT IN SAYING THAT THERE IS NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE THAT SAYS THAT SATAN WAS THE BROTHER OF CHRIST.

Yeah, because it is pure B.S. thats why.

As far as other scripture that was not cannonised. I agree that there are other books that are of benefit, such as the book of Maccabees. The major difference between these writings and the book of mormon is that these scriptures as well as the other books can be substabtiated by other historical measures, such as the writings of historians like Josephus and Philo. There are also a multitude of copies found in different locations and different periods in time. Let's not discount the oral traditions of Judaism that also substantiate these writings.

BTW when you reach your Godship status, do you get to choose which plantet you will rule over,oris it first come first served. LOL

mogel said...

Down But Not out said: "I believe that the Mormon church forbade membership of Blacks, and Native Americans, something about them not having souls? This was directly out of the "revelation" of Smiths."

LOL Your information is inaccurate & wrong as usual. What specific revelation of Smiths are you referring to where blacks don't have souls? LOL

All men & woman have souls. Blacks & Indians have ALWAYS been welcomed into the Church and have never been denied baptism. The priesthood (a special gift) has not always been available to the Blacks though. That is no longer true since 1976. The change was not due to pressure from Civil right groups though. The change was due to a revelation received by the then existing Prophet of the Church, Spencer W. Kimball who declared it was time for a change for God himself declared it to him through a revelation received.

This issue was never about racism, although the ignorant turned it around and made is seem like THAT WAS the real issue though. I can certainly understand how that could be interpreted in that vein though. I also struggled with this doctrine for a very long time myself until I finally understood it.

I'll answer your question simply: The reasons why this was so was that those who were denied the privilege of the Priesthood was because they THEMSELVES through their own agency & CHOICE, denied this privilege of having this gift in the premortal life. So up until 1976 this denial was only an honor agreement of their own wishes and their own lack of faith and desire NOT TO HAVE THIS GIFT IN THIS MORTAL LIFE & NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE OBLIGATIONS THAT CAME WITH THIS PRIVLEGE & GIFT. This choice was decided by a great many people prior before they were born.

More valiant spirits are obviously been born in this generation of time since we are in the wrapping up of things & the end of times now. Obviously not all black people rejected this gift in the pre-earth life. All people in the beginning as Spririts were on equal footing to all gifts, according to the Book of Alma.

What is more interesting, than the Black & the priesthood issue, is that even a larger group of Spirits decided to rebel against God too through bad choices & that 1/3 & even Lucifer himself rejected Jesus's gift of the plan of salvation & the whole 1/3 of Heaven were thrown as a consequence due to their choices.

So is God himself also a racist if he condemned or took away a privilege of 1/3 of all of his children at the time & threw them out of Heaven? They also made bad choices too, you know?

All people of all races have claim on all the gifts of God, but if you reject a gift, by choice or by your faith & works, God also honors that too. God recognizes free choice. Read Alma chapt. 13, vs. 2-19. Pay particular attention to verse 5, and verse 10. There are some clues there also.

Joseph Smith was NOT a racist. He one time gave his wife's best horse to a black man to pay a Civil fine that the black man owed. This black man needed the money to free his son from slavery at the time rather than being forced to pay a Civil fine. So the black man sold Emma Smith's horse, a gift given by Joseph to him, to achieve that goal. I'm sure this black man never felt that Joseph Smith was a racist. It would not have been possible without Joseph's help. Maybe Joseph's wife wasn't thrilled with the idea of her most favorite horse being sold though, for this black man's benefit and Civil fine, I don't know? I'm sure she got over it though if she initially didn't like the idea.

In the early part of the Church in the 1800's there were many blacks in the Church that accepted Joseph as a prophet. Joseph had many accusations landed against his character when he lived. Being a racist was never one of the charges made against him when he was alive for the people that really knew him, knew better. LOL

down but not out said...

mogel said,

The change was due to a revelation received by the then existing Prophet of the Church, Spencer W. Kimball who declared it was time for a change for God himself declared it to him through a revelation received.


HOW CONVENIENT. So was it a prophet that also allowed the drinking of Coca Cola, which was forbidden due to the caffiene content, because the mormon church was a major stock holder?

So one can only assume that the god you follow changes

mogel said...

August 2006 to settle things completely? Light1rae, what more do you need to know or discuss? :o) Sounds like a given to me!!!!

Light1rae, or better said, "what specifically would you like to discuss" on the Dorean issues that hasn't already been discussed & explained in deep ways? It's still a patient waiting game any way that you look at it or discuss things.

down but not out said...

Mogel,
You did not answer the question about what planet you get to be god of.

Is it first come first served, or is it predicated on how many miles you petalled your bicycle?

What about those all important golden plates. Where are they now?
God took them back?
I am very suspect of that whole deal.

down but not out said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
mogel said...

Down but Not Out: You ask excellent questions, I'll give you that.

I agree Coca Cola is bad for you. I don't know of any official statement by the Church on Coca Cola ever though. The word of wisdom should also apply to not only harmful drinks, (coffee, tea, coca cola, but ANYTHING that is harmful or of bad nutrition to the body for the body is the temple of God. I agree that too many Church members are fat & nutritionally lacking in good nutritional judgmenton about what they put in their bodies.

There may have been some bad business choices in the past, on Church holdings, no argument there. Church businesses owned has been mostly divested though now. Their holdings now are mostly real estate, land, temples, chapels & schools. Obviously, they must be doing something right to be one of the largest land owners in the Country.

As far as change goes. God (Jesus Christ) changed His law from the OT to the NT. Yes, God changes his laws according to the spiritual receptivness of his people & their ability to follow his laws. You don't give a 3rd grader calculus to learn do you?

As far as your godhood status question, as a God or Godess (let's not make this a sexist issue by disregarding the females importance and place in all things), you will have the power & the knowledge to create your own worlds. You won't take what is already God's for that would be kind of tacky, don't you think? That's a bankers tactic.

Down But Not Out: In answer to your question about Dorean: Yes, Dorean will succeed. Thank-you for asking me that question too. I'm trying to keep on topic you know.

mogel said...

Down but Not out asked: "What about those all important golden plates. Where are they now?"

AFTER THE GOLDEN PLATES WERE SHOWN TO 11 WITNESSES, MEN ALL OF INPECCABLE CHARACTER, & AFTER THEY ALL BORE THEIR WRITTEN WITNESS FOR HISTORY TO RECORD & AFTER THE TRANSLATION OF THE PLATES WERE COMPLETED BY JOSEPH, THE ANGEL MORONI, DEMANDED & TOOK POSSESSION OF THESE GOLDEN PLATES BACK INTO HIS KEEPING & POSSESSION. REMEMBER MORONI WAS THE ONE THAT BURIED THEM IN THE GROUND & THE LAST LIVING SURVIVOR OF THE NEPHITE RACE OR ONE OF THE LAST SURVIVORS IN THE VERY LEAST. HE WAS ALSO THE LAST AUTHOR & PROPHET TO WRITE ON THE GOLDEN PLATES & WAS THE DIVINE & NOW RESURRRECTED ANGEL THAT APPEARED TO JOSEPH MANY TIMES & SHOWED JOSEPH WHERE TO FIND THIS ANCIENT RECORD OF GOLD PLATES ORIGINALLY.

SURE YOU ARE SKEPTICAL OF THE GOLDEN PLATES STORY. MOST PEOPLE ARE TOO. BUT YOU ARE ALSO SKEPTICAL OF DOREAN'S EVENTUAL TRIUMP TOO, ARE YOU NOT?

OR IS IT JUST A PATIENCE ISSUE WITH YOU? YOU SHOULD ALLOW PEOPLE TO BE MISTAKEN SOMETIMES, ESPECIALLY ON TIME TABLE ISSUES OR EXPECTATIONS. IT'S A CHARITABLE THING TO ALLOW FOR, ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF ALL THE UNFORSEEN PROBLEMS & CHALLENGES DOREAN NEVER EXPECTED IN THE WAY THAT ALL THESE THINGS CAME DOWN.

HAD THE US GOVERNMENT NEVER THREATENED A FOREIGN COUNTRY, HOW DO YOU KNOW FOR A FACT THAT DOREAN WOULDN'T OR COULDN'T HAVE ACCOMPLISHED EVERYTHING THEY SAID WITHIN THE TIME TABLE THEY ORIGINALLY PROJECTED?

AN ALTERNATIVE COULD BE THAT THE DOREAN GROUP COULD HAVE NEVER DISEMINATED ANY INFORMATION EVER OR EVER GIVEN ANY PROJECTIONS ON PROGRESS & CHOSE TO REMAIN SILENT ON WHAT WAS GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES & CHOSE NOT TO REVEAL ANYTHING UNTIL SUCCESS WAS A FACT. DO YOU THINK THAT TACTIC WOULD HAVE INSTILLED MORE FAITH OR LESS FAITH?

down but not out said...

mogel said,


God (Jesus Christ) changed His law from the OT to the NT. Yes, God changes his laws according to the spiritual receptivness of his people & their ability to follow his laws.

Not true. This the misconception of the modern church through faulty and errant doctrine. Mans doctrine.

There is no scriptural evidence of an elimination of the law(Torah).

We all interpret the Scriptures through our own filters. Many times these filters are taught to us by others who have been taught by others etc,etc,etc.

We tend to look at the Bible with a greek or western mindset. We need to look at them through the Hebrew mindset, in the flavor in which they were written and understood.

Here is an example. The church would have us believe that the dietary laws where done away with because of Peters dream. Taken out of context this seems logical. But when you read the entire text with the mind of a Hebrew(which Peter was) you would understand that it is referring to foods sacrificed to idols. Also think about it this way. Lets assume it was not referring to food sacrificed to idols and was just talking about food in general. Peter an orthodox Jew would never, ever , even consider swine to be food. He never did eat of it nor would he ever think of eating of it.

This is just one simple example.
Following the rules of what you eat was pretty important to God. He uses the same language when refering to the consumption of swine flesh as he does to the practice of homosexuality. "It is an abomination" So is the food law a cerimonial law as many are so apt to claim or is it a moral law like not engaging in homosexual behavior. Seems to me they are on equal footing as something not to be practiced.

The Torah was put in place not as a set of impossible rules to follow to try an merit favor with God. They were set in place as a means of separaing Gods chosen people(yes you are chosen if you follow Jesus) from the rest of the pagans in the world. "Be Ho;y for I am ho;y" Holy means set apart.

I too for many years believed that God had one set of rules for the Jew and one set of rules for the Gentile. This simply is not true,and I challenge you to find the scripures that show that gentile believers have a different set of rules.

Mogel you have certainly been very graciouse when I attacked your religion, I know you are up to the challenge

down but not out said...

Yes, I believe in the eventual triumph of Kurt and Scott. It is just very disappointing when one thing is promissed and not delivered upon in the time it was promissed. I know there are unforseen circumstances, but if you have any doubt about the timing say nothing. It is better to under promise and over deliver, not the opposite

son of a prophet said...

were the banks responsible for putting the motto on the back of the doollar bill????

YOU BET!


ANNUIT COEPTIS

NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM


Translated: (ANNUIT COEPTIS)"ANOUNCING THE BIRTH OF THE (NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM)NEW WORLD ORDER"

which was plan from July 4, 1776 (coindedance???)

Flying Gringo said...

What a wealth of information. I enjoy reading Kurts posts.

I have posted a letter to Kurt at
http://www.insidemyhouse.com/KurtJohnson.doc

Could the moderator or whoever is in charge of posting Kurts messages send a copy of this letter to Kurt.

I will also send a letter to him directly at the address of:

Kurt F. Johnson
13177-081
FCI Dublin Correctional Facility
5701 8th Street
Camp Parks
Dublin, CA 94568

If this is incorrect, please let me know his new address by responding to Savehome@aol.com

Thanks, Gordon

dgwondering said...

Just what the Mormons need is a scam promoter trying to defend them.

neodemes said...

down, if I may...

in regard to food, please consider:

Matthew:
16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? 17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.


moogie, am I to understand you are a candidate for Godhood, with your own planet? Wow. Who would have thunk it.

You might want to consider Uranus. Somehow it suits you.

:o)

neodemes said...

"We are very close now our case is settled in August the latest."

Time will tell. At least its not the classic 90 day promise.

Counting down from 60, at most.

oksurewhynot said...

Mrs. Smith was pretty mad at Joe for losing those golden plates. Joe and 11 of his closest friends had dinner on them, didn't feel like washing them, and gave them to someone to clean. Sort of like the last supper, but with a different twist.

yea, oksurewhynot

mogel said...

moogie, am I to understand you are a candidate for Godhood, with your own planet? Wow. Who would have thunk it.
__________________
Nemo: This is NOT a new doctrine originated by the Mormons.
Rev 21: 6-7 "And he said unto me, It is done, I am Alpha & Omega, the beginning & the end, will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the waters of life, freely.
He that overcomeths shall INHERIT ALL THINGS; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."

Obviously, you don't understand the law of inheritance and what it means to INHERIT ALL THINGS and to become a heir of Christ. If you have and know all things, and become a heir of Christ & God, what does that make your status?

Also, John 10: 28-38: Jesus also taught this truth and even in their Law the people had this doctrine. Note vs. 24: "Jesus answered unto them, Is it not written in YOUR LAW, I said, "Ye are gods."

Rev. 3: 21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to SIT WITH ME IN MY THRONE, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Gen 1: 26: "And God said, let US make man in our image, after OUR own likeness, ....."

Why the PLURALITY if there is only one God in the Universe?

See also:

See Rev. 5: 10
Luke 15: 11-32
Psalms 138: 1
Math 25: 21
1 John 3: 1-3
II Cor 3: 18

Modern scripture: Doctrine & Covenants 132: 20-25
D&C 76: 50-70, 92-96
D&C 84: 33-38

mogel said...

DG Wondering said: "Just what the Mormons need is a scam promoter trying to defend them."
_________________

Just what the banks/lenders need, a "WONDERING fool," who knows nothing about anything that's been discussed on this blog. Keep wondering away!!!!! That's what you do best. Truth needs NO ONE to defend it. It stands on it's own.

WillToFight said...

I'm With Light1rae

papa_dont_preach said...

Thanks Neo for your positive post and not shooting Kurt's prediction down (as tempting as it was I'm sure based on similar predictions not coming to fruition in the past).

I do see a glimmer of light in your posts every once in a while that at the minimum, shows concern for the clients. It is refreshing I might add. Thanks.

son of a prophet said...

from urban survial.....



Texas Think

A little contrast? Sure. Many parts of the recent Texas Republican Platform caught my eye - as they are clearly different than the agenda being pushed by that "occasional Texan" fellow in the District of Corruption:

Continuity of Government – We oppose any mechanism to appoint members of the Congress if large numbers of vacancies in Congress occur and oppose any attempt to deprive the American people of their Constitutionally protected right to elect their own Representatives.

Emergency War Powers – A perpetual state of national emergency allows unrestricted growth of government. We charge the President to cancel the state of national emergency and charge Congress to repeal the War Powers Act and declare an end to the previously declared states of emergency. Elimination of Executive Orders – We demand the elimination of presidential authority to issue executive orders, presidential decision directives, and other administrative mandates that do not have congressional approval. Further, we demand a repeal of all previous executive orders and administrative mandates.

Inter-jurisdictional Agreements – We oppose inter-jurisdictional agreements with any state that usurp or dilute the authority of the Governor to command and control the military, police, and emergency management personnel and resources of the State of Texas. We call for the repeal of all such measures that have already been enacted.

Puerto Rico – We urge the U.S. Congress to call for a clear vote of the U.S. citizens of Puerto Rico to decide between statehood and independence, for the U.S. territory of Puerto Rico.

Washington D.C. - We strongly oppose all efforts to make the District of Columbia a state in the United States of America.

Census – We oppose any attempt by the United States Census Bureau to obtain any statistical data beyond the number of citizens residing in the dwelling in the required decennial census, and we oppose statistical sampling adjustments. The Republican Party of Texas calls upon its Federal legislators to repeal from Section 141 of Title 13 provisions authorizing the “mid-decade” census, of which the American Community Survey is an example. The Republican Party of Texas also calls upon its Federal legislators to amend the penalty provisions of Titles 13 and 18 so as to grant relief to U.S. citizens who, for reasons of religion or conscience, are compelled to withhold their full response to any census question.

Preservation of Republican Form of Government – We reaffirm our support for the provisions for a republican (representative) form of government, as set forth in the Texas Constitution and Texas Bill of Rights [Art. I, Sec. 2; Art. I, Sec 29; Art II, Sec. 1; and Art. XVII, Sec. 2(g)], and we oppose any attempt to introduce direct democracy (Initiative & Referendum) into our state constitution, thereby bypassing the legislative process and the checks and balances between the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government.

Germane Contents Requirement – We support a law that would require all sentences, paragraphs, sections, and any inclusion to legislation, continuing resolution, law or bill be germane to the title of the act.

Constitutional Convention – We oppose a Constitutional Convention or “Conference of the States” to rewrite the United States Constitution. Furthermore, we demand the Texas Legislature immediately rescind the State’s 1977 vote sent to the United States Congress calling for a Constitutional Convention. We also call upon other states to rescind their votes for a Constitutional Convention. The Republican Party of Texas calls upon its Federal legislators to repeal from Section 141 of Title 13 provisions authorizing the “mid-decade” census, of which the American Community Survey is an example. The Republican Party of Texas also calls upon its Federal legislators to amend the penalty provisions of Titles 13 and 18 so as to grant relief to U.S. citizens who, for reasons of religion or conscience, are compelled to withhold their full response to any census question.

As you might expect, there are some parts of the extensive document that I don't personally agree with, but there's a ton of good stuff in it - especially the clear articulation of the issue of governance by Executive decree (Orders) and opposing the off-in-the-distance plan of the NWO gang to hold a Constitutional Convention so the corporatists can rewrite the Constitution to be more "soft border" friendly with Mexico...

ticktoc123 said...

If you like Religion & Racism you might consider the view of the Southern Baptists (and the Klan) that non-whites were not human but were a form of animal.
Since God gave man (white people) dominion over the beasts of the field - slavery & segregation was justified. Blacks & whites couldn't marry because it would be immoral for a human to marry an animal.
Even our beloved King George II justifies the killing of Infidels because God wanted him to fight this war.
All this hate over a dead religion. What a waste of time & effort.

WillToFight said...

Bombs Bursting in Air

By Cindy Sheehan

The flag represents so much lying, fixed elections, profiting by the war machine, high gas prices, spying on Americans, rapid erosion of our freedoms while BushCo literally gets away with murder, torture and extreme rendition, contaminating the world with depleted uranium, and illegal and immoral wars that are responsible for killing so many. A symbol which used to represent hope to so many around the world now fills so many with disgust.


Continue

http://www.informationclearinghouse.
info/

WillToFight said...

Patriotism & The Fourth of July

By Howard Zinn

In celebration of the 4th of July there will be many speeches about the young people who “died for their country.” Let's be honest about war. Those who gave their lives did not die for their country, as they were led to believe but for their government. The distinction between country and government is at the heart of the Declaration of Independence, which will be referred to again and again on July 4, but without attention to its meaning. Continue

The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies

In Congress, July 4, 1776

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Continue

A New Declaration of Independence

By Emma Goldman

When, in the course of human development, existing institutions prove inadequate to the needs of man, when they serve merely to enslave, rob, and oppress mankind, the people have the eternal right to rebel against, and overthrow, these institutions.

Continue

WillToFight said...

Lou Dobbs on the North American Union

4 Minute Video

President Bush signed a formal agreement that will end the United States as we know it, and he took the step without approval from either the U.S. Congress or the people of the United States. Click here to watch

The Plot To Overthrow FDR

America's Hidden History

The Plot To Overthrow FDR reveals how, inspired by political trends in Germany and Italy, this group conceived of a plan to either overthrow the newly-elected president or force him to take orders from them. They envisioned a paramilitary organization of disgruntled WWI veterans as the force to intimidate the government. The man they chose to inspire and lead this veteran's army was retired Marine General Smedley D. Butler. Click here to watch. Windows Media

Is Cheney betting on Economic Collapse?

By Mike Whitney

Wouldn’t you like to know where Dick Cheney puts his money? Then you’d know whether his “deficits don’t matter” claim is just baloney or not.

Continue

http://www.informationclearinghouse
.info/

WillToFight said...

Above

Some of the Many Answers to the "Duty of a Citizen

NO RELIGION ALLOWED

WillToFight said...

Busted for wearing a peace T-shirt; has this country gone completely insane?

Mike Ferner | July 5 2006

Friday afternoon, drinking a cup of coffee while sitting in the Jesse Brown V.A. Medical Center on Chicago's south side, a Veterans Administration cop walked up to me and said, "Okay, you've had your 15 minutes, it's time to go."

"Huh?" I asked intelligently, not quite sure what he was talking about.

"You can't be in here protesting," Officer Adkins said, pointing to my Veterans For Peace shirt.

"Well, I'm not protesting, I'm having a cup of coffee," I returned, thinking that logic would convince Adkins to go back to his earlier duties of guarding against serious terrorists.

Flipping his badge open, he said, "No, not with that shirt. You're protesting and you have to go."

__________________________

Is this how we want to live?

RELIGION NOT ALLOWED!!!!

WillToFight said...

God did endow YOU with the ability to THINK for YOURSELF!!!!!

down but not out said...

willie,

Go ahead and align yourself with the likes of Cindy Sheehan. I thought you were for freedom and truth. Do you realize Sheeham is the new lapdog spokesperson for the communist/environmentalist-/leftist?

Look at the people she associates with, all members of the totalitarian ,one world ,left. Soros et al.

You are either so blinded by your hatred of this country and it's leaders that you don't see who you unwittingly support, or you are just a band wagon jumper.

pathetic

down but not out said...

willie,

Go find another country, where you have as much freedom as you do here,

Oh BTW don't believe everything you read on the net

WillToFight said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
WillToFight said...

DOWNANDOUT said....

You are either so blinded by your hatred of this country and it's leaders that you don't see who you unwittingly support, or you are just a band wagon jumper.
__________________________

I post the Constitution on this Blog

I post the Bill Of Rights on this Blog

IDIOTS like you obviously don't read that part of my post?!?!?!

pick and choose. Twist and more twist! This is your brain!

Please do not respond to me at all if you act like NEO!

That is your problem you DON't get it!

There is no side!

There is only TRUTH and FACTS! Sometime they are two different things.

Think about that one!

DOWN AND CERTAINLY AN IDIOT

Don't talk to me unless you can think out loud!

It is really getting hard dealing with some of you here! Your ignorance and lack of thought (critical) is just uncanny!

Where are you, chained in a basement in Alabama?

WillToFight said...

DownButOut said...

willie,

Go ahead and align yourself with the likes of Cindy Sheehan. I thought you were for freedom and truth. Do you realize Sheeham is the new lapdog spokesperson for the communist/environmentalist-/leftist?
________________________

I certainly would not align with you after that statement!

Your Gone Down and Out. Are you on crack or Meth what's up! If you've figured out one thing on this site.

People like you are not the only ones!!!!!!!

Your making me sick to my stomach just thinking about what type person you are!

Those that hold real power do not I REPEAT DO NOT care about YOU or ME!

They have infiltrated every facet of society you idiot!

Religion/Economics/Politics/Sports etc, etc, etc.

There is no SIDE. There is FACT and Truth not necessarily in that order!

WillToFight said...

DownOutUpsideIn Said

willie,

Go find another country, where you have as much freedom as you do here,
_____________________

You Rush Limbaugh Druggie

Albeit Rush doesn't talk about the fact that 100's of AMERICAN Blue Blooded owned Corporations have freedom as they want in other Countries, leaving American and YOU in a bind that will last for generations as the erosion of your job and others continue to be out sold/sourced for much less!

You've got the wrong person! Don't give me that one tracked mindset that is patented by those with a KKK mentality!

down but not out said...

Will,


Gosh I never knew I was an idiot until you so graciously pointed it out, thank you. I think I will go hide under my bed for awhile, with my new tinfoil hat.

WillToFight said...

Pinch yourself

DOWN AND OUT

There is a fact for you that that happened (if you do it) or do you believe you can do that?


Tell me about it my child!

WillToFight said...

Downbutcertainlyout said...

Gosh I never knew I was an idiot until you so graciously pointed it out, thank you. I think I will go hide under my bed for awhile, with my new tinfoil hat.
_____________________

You don't have to do any of that, unless you really want to!

What a Brick!

WillToFight said...

Down But Not Out So he says said.....

Gosh I never knew I was an idiot until you so graciously pointed it out, thank you.
____________________

No thank yourself. Give praise to you extreme high intellect!

WillToFight said...

Question Everyone

Is there an oppisite to Truth?

WillToFight said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
WillToFight said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
WillToFight said...

DownNotThinking said...

I think I will go hide under my bed for awhile, with my new tinfoil hat.
___________________

A word of advise. Do Not Stick tinfoil into the light socket under that is under bed.

I would not want to be the cause of your continued effort of libotomy!

down but not out said...

Willie,

So much love from you, it is overwhelming.

You prisonplanet druggie.LOL

down but not out said...

Willie,

So much love from you, it is overwhelming.

You prisonplanet druggie.LOL

WillToFight said...

Willie,

So much love from you, it is overwhelming.

You prisonplanet druggie.LOL
_______________________


call it what you want!

I will not LOL with you!

Your program is corrupt!

down but not out said...

will,

Your name calling and personal attacks belie your seditious arguements.

Pretty good for someone with a "libotomy" don't cha think?

getmeoffthisride said...

mogel - you said that Mormons will rule over planets that God doesn't own - who made those other planets? God created the universe! The old testament is not changed by the new testament. The Messiah was prophesied about in the old testament and in the new testament, He fulfilled the old testament prophecy. Nothing was changed.

down but not out said...

getmeoffthisride,


Amen to that !!!

neodemes said...

Who was the first Mormon who died?

Maybe God gave him one of His planets and the new god created other planets to give to the next mormon god, ya think, maybe?

mogel, claim Uranus before someone else does.

oksurewhynot said...

Neo is stating the truth. There are no shortcuts when it comes to finances. Your parents did a disservice to you if they didn't teach these things. It's how the rest of us survive & the creed we live with.
We go to college or trade schools,take 2nd and 3rd jobs, we work long hours, we save,save,save, then buy a small house we can afford. We buy used cars, have garage sales, and invest wisely.

Reprinting Neo's words:
"Put your energy to use figuring how to structure your lives so that you don't run up debts in the first place...

Do you have credit cards?
Cut them up.

Do you have multiple credit card debt already?
Focus on paying every extra cent you can muster toward paying off the smallest debt first. When that is done, apply that monthly payment toward the next. Rinse and repeat.

Are you paying for a new car loan? Sell the freakin' car and buy a beater. A car is the worst investment you can make...it depreciates as soon as you drive it off the lot.

Do you lease a car? Then you are truly a moron.

Can't make enough $ with your day job? ... get a second job.

Have garage sales until all those toys you didn't need in the first place are sold off and apply the cash to your debt.

Did you buy too much house? Sell it and get one you can afford. Don’t like paying all that interest? Make regular payments against the principal and knock off thousands. Sheesh, this ain’t rocket science, its basic math.

You don't like banks? FINE. Don't use conventional financing. Stop whining and learn how to buy real estate via alternative methods.

Realize that you own nothing that isn't owned by God, and you are merely stewards. It is your job to be responsible stewards. That does not mean to finance a house beyond your means to pay your mortgage and then go running to mortgage eliminating scams to bail you out, while pretending you are saving the freakin' world.

Learn how to apply biblical principles of financing to your own lives. Teach your children to do the same. Give them three envelopes, label them:

1)Giving
2)Saving
3)Spending

Set up your finances to match. Rely on the truth of God's word that you do not need to worry. Give with a joyous heart and you will live an abundant life. Don't confuse abundance with wealth.

mogel said...

Getmeoffthisride said: "mogel - you said that Mormons will rule over planets that God doesn't own - who made those other planets? God created the universe! The old testament is not changed by the new testament. The Messiah was prophesied about in the old testament and in the new testament, He fulfilled the old testament prophecy. Nothing was changed.
-----------------
Matter and the elements are eternal. They've always existed. Matter cannot be created or destroyed. It can take different forms, but cannot be destroyed or created. It's eternal. The intelligence in all things has always existed. See Doctrine & Covenants 93: 23-38. Also: D&C 132: 19-25

It's God's knowledge of all eternal laws that enables him to command the intelligence in all things to create worlds, animals, and all life forms as we know it. See D&C 88: 34-47. The glory of God is intelligence for he knows all things. Some ressurected beings will eventually advance to the point where they will be able to create worlds of their own to populate with life, just as God does now. See Doctrine & Covenants 76: 50-70, 92-96.

Abraham, Issac & Jacob, Old Testament prophets are no longer just angels but are now Gods too:
See D&C 132: 37


God showed to Moses on the Mount all of his creations & all of his worlds. See Moses: 1: 27-39.


"In the beginning the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep." There was alot of organization going on to create what is out there we call the Universe which was done by an intelligent personal being known as God.

God did not create evil, nor is he the author of it, nor did God create the intelligence in all things. Intelligence is eternal and has always existed. The intelligence part in all things has always existed. However, our Spirits had a birth or a beginning, and likewise our physical bodies had a birth and a beginning, & a new birth will happen when we are resurrected too (spirit & glorified body united forever so we cannot die ever again). This is all part of the evolution of mankind. However, the intelligence part of us (defined as light and truth) has always existed & is coeternal with God himself.

Good and evil have always existed too. If there is no beginning of this, there need be no end either. God the Father had a God, & his God had a God, & his God had a God, etc. to infinity. See Revelations 1: 6 (Jesus, God, and God's Father). There is no beginning to all of this and there is no end. "As man is, God once was, and as God is, man may become." God said "this is my work and my glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man."

Here is an example of a change of law or expected code of conduct. Under the Old Testament it was an "eye for an eye & a tooth for a tooth" (more emphasis on justice, instead of mercy & forgiveness). In the New Testament, Jesus said, in order to become perfect, you must "Love your enemies", no longer an eye for an eye, but "turn the other check", a higher law of love & forgiveness. As you go up the spiritual evolution latter, you are responsible to adhere to higher laws. When you know all laws & adhere to all laws, you will also become perfect someday: (Math 5: 48. It is the application & knowledge of all these laws and the gift of the "continuation of the lives" that make you a God.

mogel said...

Nemo said: "mogel, claim Uranus before someone else does"
_________________________

I'M WORKING ON THAT RIGHT NOW. I THOUGHT I WOULD TRY ADVERSE POSSESSION TO SEE IF THAT WILL WORK. I think after 7 years, of continuous squatting without any objections, it's mine. :o)

WillToFight said...

DownandOut said....

willie,

Go ahead and align yourself with the likes of Cindy Sheehan. I thought you were for freedom and truth. Do you realize Sheeham is the new lapdog spokesperson for the communist/environmentalist-/leftist?

Look at the people she associates with, all members of the totalitarian ,one world ,left. Soros et al.

______________________________

Remember this is where it began. You labeling me.

______________________

Downinignorance Said...

will,

Your name calling and personal attacks belie your seditious arguements.

Pretty good for someone with a "libotomy" don't cha think?
________________________

Now you want to whine about name calling.

I am not a follower like you. I weigh issues and make decisions based on fact and truth, right and wrong.

You just havn't learned not to take sides, but to be guided by your nose ring by those you think you should look up to.

You said I should leave the country and all that juvinile double speak, but now all you can do is whine!

You havn't addressed anything that I put back to you accept Whine Whine, Willie all your name calling!

Yawn!

down but not out said...

will,

Chill out babe,

Why waste your time on the likes of a no nothing ignoramus such as myself.

w said...

mogel said...
God did not create evil, nor is he the author of it, nor did God create the intelligence in all things.

mogel and the religious others, You are utterly 100 percent wrong and incorrect and contradict your own man made religion you keep trumpeting.

Your own religion records that your god created evil. I know you dont want to hear the truth of what was taught to control you and dont want to register it with your perception of being but it is in your own bible that you keep quoting, tell me it is not:

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Now go and spin and makeup another formation of words to try and say this means something else.
But it doesnt, it is right there for you.

Seen it in Utah said...

Since when did this become a Mormon-bashing blog? I, for one, expected better from some of you. If you want to pick on Mogel, pick on him for his Dorean stands, not his religion choice.

WillToFight said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
WillToFight said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
WillToFight said...

"The ALL" IN ALL

"While All is in THE ALL, it is equally true that THE ALL is in All. To him/her who truly understands this truth hath come great knowledge."

The Metu Neter

Everyone has a choices to make. It is within you and is always there.

Free Will!

Good/Bad/Indifferent

porblem is how much consideration or contemplation of the effect "Good/Bad/Indifferent" Right/Wrong was given to that choice!

Did it harm others? Should it "create" a stir to make necessary changes for the progress (Spiritual) of Society?

Did your choice show your inhumanity with selfishness that causes others to lose and left without?

Does your choice exclude those that don't look like you?

When is exlusion a necessary component of your choice.

"Every Cause has its Effect; every Effect has its Cause; everything happens according to Law (Spiritual); Change is but a name for Law not recognized; there are many planes of causation, but nothing escapes the Law."

You reap what you sow!

My choice is Truth, no matter who shows it! There are no sides, only the illusion thereof!

Chill DownButNotOut!

WillToFight said...

Oh and another thing

DownButNotOut

Hope my last post was not considered too siditious to you.

Ask yourself does it defy gravity?

WillToFight said...

Short answer

Fact is not necessarily Truth!

Truth is always Fact!

WillToFight said...

Down But Not Out Said...

I believe that the Mormon church forbade membership of Blacks, and Native Americans, something about them not having souls? This was directly out of the "revelation" of Smiths.
_____________

Why do you only point this out about the Mormons', are you only trying to stir something up with Mogel?

All Christian (Protestant/Catholic/ etc.) Religious Dogmas forbade Denied and excluded Africans and Native Americans and others at some point and not just from the religious systems, unless or until it was time to convert them/us at the end of the Sword!

Temporary "Changes"

Are you just choosing the Mormon?

WillToFight said...

SeenSomthing In Utah said...

Since when did this become a Mormon-bashing blog? I, for one, expected better from some of you. If you want to pick on Mogel, pick on him for his Dorean stands, not his religion choice.
________________

Oh he's back!

Sounds like a well learned Fascist, not agreeing that anyone should ask questions, except how he would direct!

Boy, these lying cheating Banks/Mortgage Co's taught you well hah UTAH?

light1rae said...

The definition of truth is in psalm 199:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy TORAH (law) is the truth. Also in psa 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. So we could sum up by saying thy LAW and Commmandments are TRUTH and there you go...lets keep it real.
;)

WillToFight said...

For You DownButNotOut

just listen to it! Below you will find the link to several speaches that have been locked up by your government for 40 years!

"We are opposed around the world by a monolithic ruthless conspiracy." ~President John Kennedy _


(http://www.thelastoutpost.com/
Portals/_TheLastOutpost/Audio
/johnkennedy/JFK.mp3)

ILLUMINATI "CONSPIRACY" IS REAL! "SAID PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY"


_HEAR IT FROM HIS OWN LIPS_
(http://www.thelastoutpost.com/Portals/

down but not out said...

will said,

All Christian (Protestant/Catholic/ etc.) Religious Dogmas forbade Denied and excluded Africans and Native Americans and others at some point and not just from the religious systems, unless or until it was time to convert them/us at the end of the Sword!


You will get no arguement from me on that one. Because the Christian"church" stopped following the Torah in about the 3rd century, all of mans corrupt ideas and interpretations found thier way into the teachings of the leadership, and then down to the believers.This dispensationalist way of thinking has corrupted the minds of the modern believer to accept as fact that there are two sets of commandments, one for Jew, and one for Gentile. I ask agian show me in scripture (in context and not sound bites)where this is true

neodemes said...

Seen it in Utah said...

Since when did this become a Mormon-bashing blog? I, for one, expected better from some of you. If you want to pick on Mogel, pick on him for his Dorean stands, not his religion choice.

*******************************

Anyone who seeks to throw the unsaved off of the path to salvation should have the Light shined upon them.

Souls are at stake.

getmeoffthisride said...

Mogel, I do not even know what the Mormon "doctrine and convenants" are and do not need to know. As a child, I was part of the Mormon church. My heart knew at an early age that this is not where I was supposed to be. God took me out of the church so that I might come to have a personal relationship with Jesus.

Neo said it perfectly that souls are at stake here. Believing in false doctrine can claim your soul for an eternal hell and damnation. Not saying something about it can hold me responsible to God.

I hope that you will read the bible and seek perfect truth. We cannot become "gods" nor can we achieve to God. He created us and the universe and any matter and being in it. It did not just appear on it's own. Therefore we cannot claim it.

Those who call upon the name of Jesus will be saved from the pits of hell and will inherit as sons and daughters of God the kingdom of heaven. Black, white, or Indian. We were all created for His enjoyment. To fellowship with Him.

Jesus said he came not as a peacemaker but to separate and divide. He divides the chaff from the wheat. Yes, we are to turn the other cheek but as far as Truth, we are going to be separated and divided.

In the Old Testament, the Israelites were sent to fight for God's truth because others refused to turn to God and worship Him. They turned to their own ways, idolatry, sexual pleasures, false prophetry, etc. They were destroying their lives and also hated God's ways and His people. At that time there seemed to be no easy way to serve God either with all the rules and regulations.

God made it easy for us in the way of sending His Son, Jesus. He is the only One who can be God. We can't. We're not perfect. Only Jesus was. Satan was a fallen angel. Michael was given the highest place next God, but, jealousy and greed overtook him. He is in no way shape or form like Jesus because Jesus is God. God is a mystery but through events in my life, I know that He loves me and cares for me. What do I have to worry about?

But, if I'm trying to achieve something like "god" status. It ain''t going to happen. I'm not perfect nor will I ever be although the scripture tells me to continue to run the race and to strive for holiness. I'm not going to throw in the towel and give up just because I will continue to sin but I can sure try to live up to what God wants me to be. He knows my heart and that I want to live a life that is pleasing to Him.

The scripture also says that if we say that we are perfect and without sin, i.e. a "god", that we are liars and the Truth is not in us.

Sin separated us from God, Jesus brought us back together. All God wanted is for all man to be a big happy family. That is the way He started the whole thing with Adam and Eve. We would've been able to walk with God to this day had it not been for sin. But with Jesus, we have that opportunity again to walk with God, in heaven. Right now, we have the Holy Spirit to guide us and we live by faith.

mogel said...

I'm not perfect nor will I ever be although the scripture tells me to continue to run the race and to strive for holiness.
___________________________
Must have been a mistranslation in the Bible on Math 5: 48 then. Either that or it was one of those impractical or untrue commandments that Jesus gave that "Down but Not out" was demanding I supply. Course if man COULD ever become perfect, God forbid, he would be a god, but of course, that could never be, because all sincere & saved Christians know that there is but only one true God and THERE IS NONE ELSE. :o)

You know giving a commanandment that is impossible or unattainable at some point in the eternal scheme of time & things like Math 5: 48 is just so outrageous!! Obviously you can't become anything greater than whatever your vision is. That's just common sense. At least your goals are realistic or practical. If you shoot for the moon, at least you might end up with the stars. Obviously someone took out the part "to strive" in Math 5: 48. Course "to be" and "to strive" as far as perfection is concerned, must be in essence the same thing in your viewpoint.

I'm sure you also accept Kurt's "best efforts" too and have never complained too-- to the Dorean Group about all of their untimely & broken promises with your reality perception of human potential. It doesn't matter if Kurt is PERFECTLY successful in fulfilling his promises either or perfectly following through. :o) I'm sure you would also agree that it is impossible to win against the banks & for Kurt to fulfill his promises IN A PERFECT WAY, as he promised. After all, that's just as unrealistic as what Jesus said in Math 5: 48. It just can't be done since it isn't a reality. You & Nemo share more in common than you think.

Also Michael (2nd in power or authority, as you say), the archangel, cannot be Lucifer(Satan). Never heard of Lucifer the archangel. Michael, by the way was Adam, the first man. He will come back as a resurrected being to lead the armies of Jesus in the end in the overthrow of Satan in the end. Read the Book of Revelations again, you're a little rusty on doctrine.

mogel said...

Getmeoffthisride said: "God took me out of the church so that I might come to have a personal relationship with Jesus."
____________________________

You're so right. It is a fact that no indoctrinated Mormon can EVER have a personal relationship with Jesus. :o) Just ask anyone that wrote a book on the Mormon cult. Their expert testimony on this subject will substantiate this fact. Good thing that you were so perceptive as a child to save yourself before it was too late. :o)

getmeoffthisride said...

Ummm, you're wrong on the rusty doctrine. Michael was not Adam. How could Adam deceive himself in the garden? Michael was the one who deceived God's creation. Better read Genesis and Revelation again yourself and quit twisting scripture around.