Tuesday, October 03, 2006

Class in Session: Lesson 6

I would like to talk in detail about the lender’s contract but I do not have a copy. If one of you would like to mail me a copy I will go through it and highlight the misstatements, the omissions, the false and misleading statements, and the general bad faith in the document. Please send me the Fannie Mae uniform contract which would be most applicable to the largest group of victims. In the UCC there are degrees to validate an agreement. It would be helpful to view these as paint that must be applied on the canvas of good faith and fair dealing. If they are not sealed to this canvas the pictured agreement will be flaked and chipped and obviously be exposed as faulty. From the most hearty paint to the thinnest lets look at the Lenders dealings with its victim to see the resulting picture. The paramount way to understand the intent of the agreement is the expressed terms or the written instrument. I will dissect this in detail in a future lesson after one is received. What is important is that the expression in words is a truthful honest-in-fact description of the duties and obligations of the parties reflecting the real agreement that was obtained through knowledgeable informed consent. Any authorization becomes suspect if honesty is absent. Next in line is Course of Performance this deals with the conduct after or under the agreement. This could conflict with the expressed terms and be evidence of a different agreement between the parties. Next is Course of Dealing, which deals with the conduct before the agreement and may enter the agreement either by explicit performance or by tacit recognition. Last is usage of trade, which is really the habits, and rules of an industry. Though this is the weakest evidence of the agreement it was one of the loudest arguments. You’ve seen it on this blog. “Everybody does it that way, everyone knows money is lent, if it is wrong why does the government sanction it?” This is not a defense if an unconscionable or dishonest practice should become standard. Any violation in these 4 areas creates an action for the aggrieved party. This is what Dorean was addressing with its self-help remedy. All 4 areas if looked at individually or collectively expose dishonesty-in-fact and bad faith. Beyond this may be a malicious intent to defraud. Prevailing will expose this rat. If you are an honest person you will easily discover things are not what are professed to be. One of the surest ways to know you hit a nerve is the accusation “you are a cheat who wants something for nothing.” This is the banker’s tool taught well to their political cronies. Get the spotlight off you by accusing your opponent of your actions. In their foolish world first to accuse is ridiculed and the retort gets all the attention. Remember their world is stupid and not supported by their commercial code.

55 comments:

justice77777777 said...

Tattoo: The plane, the plane...

Mr. Rourke: Welcome to Fantasy Island. I am your host Mr. Rourke.

Mr. Rourke: While here, you will enjoy the pleasure of my one sided, idiotic ramblings about mortgage fraud, and christianity from the "Book of Kurt".

Tattoo: Yeah I agree with whatever he says...

Mr. Rourke: Welcome to Fantasy Island.

Cast

Tatoo - D. Scott Heineman

Mr. Rourke - Kurt F. Johnson

Scott from Vineland said...

Kurt,
I feel kinda bad that it has come to this for you, bro. I almost wish you had bolted with the $$$ while you had the chance. I work in the mortgage industry now and have been following your story whenever I have had time but the is the first I've seen your blog. I can only assume you'll remember me from growing up in Vineland. My mom told me that the last time she spoke to your mom in FL a few years ago, she found out that Faith had breast cancer. Did she make it through that OK? Or are you in touch with the family at all? Wish there was some way we could talk but obviously I'm not going to put my # or address out on this forum. I know it's been a long time but this stuff I'm reading doesn't sound like the Kurt I knew when we were kids. Hope you'll post something to let me know you read this and that you DO remember me. I'll write you off-line if you can get me your address somehow.
Scott Simmons
(Jan's son)

Scott from Vineland said...

Kurt,
I feel kinda bad that it has come to this for you, bro. I almost wish you had bolted with the $$$ while you had the chance. I work in the mortgage industry now and have been following your story whenever I have had time but the is the first I've seen your blog. I can only assume you'll remember me from growing up in Vineland. My mom told me that the last time she spoke to your mom in FL a few years ago, she found out that Faith had breast cancer. Did she make it through that OK? Or are you in touch with the family at all? Wish there was some way we could talk but obviously I'm not going to put my # or address out on this forum. I know it's been a long time but this stuff I'm reading doesn't sound like the Kurt I knew when we were kids. Hope you'll post something to let me know you read this and that you DO remember me. I'll write you off-line if you can get me your address somehow.
Scott Simmons
(Jan's son)

habakkuk said...

Hey Scott,

Kurt is just as nice a guy now as he was back in the day. Actually, he's pretty damn courageous if you ask me.

Its just that theres a bunch of guttless, godless wimps on this blog who get their kciks on slandering an innocent man.

On top of that theirs probably some frauds on this blog who are nothing but plants who want to spread discord and divide and conquer.

Tell the kids from the neighborhood to pray for kurt and they should be proud to know him.

Scott from Vineland said...

I hate to burst your bubble, Habakkuk, but you need to know that I am not in Kurt's corner regarding his activities with Dorean Group. Professionally, we are on opposite sides of the fight so there's no need to try to proselytize me. My only concern for him is personal, based on a long-ago friendship and my interest in what has happened to the rest of his family.

habakkuk said...

Oh, so since you work in the mortgage industry (as i did as a former-loan officer) you should have firt hand experience as to how the banks are opperating under complete fraud...right?? If you really work for the mortgage industry it should be an easy conclusion for you....All i had to do is go investigate for myself and it was easy.

Dont worry, i'm not trying to make anybody come to Christ....When the Holy Spirit starts tugging at your heart then you'll be ready....If HE dont do the saving it aint gonna happen. I can preach to you till im blue in the face and if GOD aint in it...it aint happening.

Thats good that your concerned about kurt and his family.....i'm sure he'll be happy to hear from you.

tcob247 said...

Habbakkuk....
where in scott from vilelands conversation was there any mention of God or becoming a Christian?

What, in his conversation, would warrant you saying this to him?

"Dont worry, i'm not trying to make anybody come to Christ....When the Holy Spirit starts tugging at your heart then you'll be ready....If HE dont do the saving it aint gonna happen. I can preach to you till im blue in the face and if GOD aint in it...it aint happening."

papa_dont_preach said...

scott from vineland, if you know Kurt, then you\'ll know his Dad. He\'s your best bet in getting any communications started.

408-866-8625
Dr. H. Fred

Yetter said...

Carl Sagan "One of saddest lessons of history is this.If we have been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the banboozle. We're no longer interested in finding TRUTH. The bamboozle has captured us.It is too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been so credulous."

dgwondering said...

If any of Kurt's nonsense were viable, why isn't there an appeal of the civil cases that were ruled on already?

son of a prophet said...

like they said...


"sawm day the sheet go' heet the fain.."

habakkuk said...

"Habbakkuk....
where in scott from vilelands conversation was there any mention of God or becoming a Christian?

What, in his conversation, would warrant you saying this to him?"

HE SAID: "there's no need to try to proselytize me. "

PERSONALLY, I DONT KNOW WHY HE SAID THAT...ALL I SAID WAS "PRAY FOR KURT".

WHATEVER, IT DOESNT MATTER....NEXT TOPIC.

tcob247 said...

habbakkuk

He wasnt talking religion

He was talking mortgage industry

habakkuk said...

My fault....It must have been a knee jerk reaction....I thought he was gettin uptight like everybdy else on here that has a fit when you say "God" or "pray" or "usary and fraud is an abomination to God"

tcob247 said...

I think they get uptight about the way you use God for your own purpose and belief system (ie: mortgage elimination)

habakkuk said...

I dont care if its mortgage ellimination, student loan, car loan, whatever.....If the contract is FRAUDULENT then i got a problem with that. But the mortgage thing really irks me because masses of people are enslaved by these fraudulent contracts and they spend their lives paying interest on a loan the bank never really funded to begin with.....

This aint hard tcob, go look up the word USARY or FRAUD in the dictionary. Why am i still trying to explain this to you 9 months later??

And for the last time go look at the countless scriptures where G-d Almighty tells His people thru His prophets that He aint gonna put up with this. Dont complain to me about it go talk to G-d...He makes the rules. And whatever G-d says is lawful and unlawful is ok with me.

Tell me, do you have a problem with G-d's guidlines??

"I think they get uptight about the way you use God for your own purpose and belief system (ie: mortgage elimination)"

If i had a dime for every time i heard that here on this blog i could go pay off my mortgage today. It aint my belief system....talk to G-d.

habakkuk said...

If Chase bank could show me they funded my loan with their own assets i wouldn't be on this blog.......But when i asked them to validate the debt they ignore me......Is this the kind of system you like to live in where the banks are allowed to do whatever they damn well please???

Or maybe your indifferent because it doesnt effect you directly... (yet).

princess said...

I have seen alot of people in the recent past asking about Lecompte and Tobias. Has anyone ever wondered what happened to Magoon and Julian??? And if Kurt is so sure that all of this is just going to go away(what a joke) why did his buddy Julian take off to Panama? Why are they not here facing the music?

Yetter said...

The Goverment play book says throw as many charges as possiable at a wall, see if any thing sticks, lock up everyone for as long as possiable,take away their rights and ability to defend them selves, force a plea bargin. Bill is far more valuable on the out side.

Judge Roy Bean said...

Habakkuk said: "If Chase bank could show me they funded my loan with their own assets i wouldn't be on this blog......."

Then take your ignorance and go away. Why do they have to fund the loan with their own assets? You're operating the dark ages based on mythology you picked up off the Internet.

Lots of lenders set up loans using funds on a temporary basis until they're securitized.

mogel said...

Aaron Russo's widely acclaimed film "America: Freedom to Fascism" can now be viewed online free here:

http://www.poodlecrap.com/Hateliars/HL_Video1.asp?Part=0

Scott from Vineland said...

tcob247 - I appreciate the fact that you saw where I was coming from, using the word "proselytize" in a more general sense. Thanks for explaining for me. I was too busy at work to post earlier.

habukkuk - Based on your last two posts, I gather that your main issue is with the fact that your mortgage company borrowed funds from a warehouse bank that they then used to fund your mortgage. So is it your contention that this invalidates the promissory note that you signed? Where does it say lenders can't borrow money too? I am baffled by your assertion that this constitutes fraud. Because they loaned you money that they themselves had borrowed, does that somehow mean that the money was never actually tendered for your benefit?

Bottom line for me is, you borrow money, you pay it back. It's really that simple. Does it suck that you ultimately pay twice as much in interest as your original principal? Of course it does. I'm not happy with the arrangement either but that's just what happens with such a long term amortization. And considering how real estate appreciates, it's still a far better use of MY money than paying rent.

And habukkuk, I honestly DO appreciate your concern over my salvation but you needn't worry. The Holy Spirit got hold of me a long time ago. (Born again '89.) But I'm not clear on how that is germane. You should know that God's law and man's law are often at odds. (See Roe v. Wade.) And if you and I were not in the business of borrowing the money, who else could the evil banks lend it to?

mogel said...

This link talks about the Canadian class action lawsuit against the banks:
http://www.freewebs.com/classaction

oksurewhynot said...

Hey Scott from Vineland,

Please give me hope that something good has ever come out of New Jersey.
Kurt is over the top and dragged his buddy down with him. There is a lot of loss caused by your childhood friend to the public and to the duo's families.

If you can do something you're a miracle worker.

oksurewhynot said...

Scott from Vineland -
PS the last person you ever want to contact is "Dr" Fred.

Yetter said...

I suppose thats just one of the debates here. wether the deed of trust is a negotiable instrument.In my agreement it claims to be a just a security instrument.In either case I would like it diclosed just how MY deed of trust is to be handled and wether those involved are licensed to do so.

oksurewhynot said...

No Yetter,
The debate is whether anything good ever came out of New Jersey.

;)

justice77777777 said...

Yetter said...
Bill is far more valuable on the out side.

OMG. Did you use the word Bill(Julian) and valuable in the same sentence? This just proves you are off your rocker yetter. Julian's fleeing the law, has nothing to do with "value", but in fact has everything to do with being a coward, who is probably on borrowed time from what I have heard.

Scott from Vineland said...

oksure -
Hey man, some of my best friends are from NJ!!! ;) But trust me, I have no illusions about being able to change Kurt's mind or work any sort of miracles in this realm. So, what can you tell me about Dr. Fred that would help me decide whether or not to talk to him?

tcob247 said...

Scott....
It is refreshing to see some common sense and level headedness being spoken for once on here.....

but be warned.....

The cult of Kurt will be ripping you to shreds on here real soon.

You will be called a govt. plant, antichrist, moron etc.

I guess the truth hurts

Welcome!

habakkuk said...

"Then take your ignorance and go away. Why do they have to fund the loan with their own assets? You're operating the dark ages based on mythology you picked up off the Internet.

Lots of lenders set up loans using funds on a temporary basis until they're securitized. "

Hey roy, that doesnt make me feel any better....nor does it answer the real question....go back to sleep.

habakkuk said...

"And habukkuk, I honestly DO appreciate your concern over my salvation but you needn't worry. The Holy Spirit got hold of me a long time ago. (Born again '89.) But I'm not clear on how that is germane. You should know that God's law and man's law are often at odds. (See Roe v. Wade.) "

TRUE, G-D AND MAN ARE ALWAYS CONFLICTING, BUT WHOSE RIGHT IN THE END?? ABORTIONS ARE HAPPENING AS WE SPEAK BUT DOES THAT MEAN BECAUSE ITS LEGAL THAT THIS COUNTRY HAS ESCAPED THE CONSEQUENCES?? NOPE.....IF THERES ONE THING THAT CRIES OUT FROM THE GROUND ITS THE BLOOD OF THE INNOCENT.

BUT LETS NOT GET OFF TOPIC. JUST LIKE MURDER (ABORTION) IS COVERED IN G-D'S STATUTES, SO IS USARY AND FRAUDULENT BEHAVIOR.....YEAH, ITS NOT AS OBVIOUS AS THE BIG ONES LIKE MURDER, ETC.....BUT IT STILL STINKS IN G-D'S NOSTRALS.

habakkuk said...

Hey heres a good question, if some of you guys are so content with our banking system, why did you become a dorean client??

And why are you here stoning those who just want the truth....The system you are happy with is working for you....why are you here?

habakkuk said...

I dont expect everyone on this blog to be as outraged as i am about our bad system. Some of you are probably benefiting from it and you dont want anyone to disturb the apple cart. But i see a lot of people getting screwed on my side of the tracks. But, i have faith that G-d knows what He's doing in the end.

Hab 2:2-14

2Then the LORD said to me, "Write my answer in large, clear letters on a tablet, so that a runner can read it and tell everyone else. 3But these things I plan won't happen right away. Slowly, steadily, surely, the time approaches when the vision will be fulfilled. If it seems slow, wait patiently, for it will surely take place. It will not be delayed.
4"Look at the proud! They trust in themselves, and their lives are crooked;[a] but the righteous will live by their faith.[b] 5Wealth[c] is treacherous, and the arrogant are never at rest. They range far and wide, with their mouths opened as wide as death,[d] but they are never satisfied. In their greed they have gathered up many nations and peoples. 6But the time is coming when all their captives will taunt them, saying, `You thieves! At last justice has caught up with you! Now you will get what you deserve for your oppression and extortion!' 7Suddenly, your debtors will rise up in anger. They will turn on you and take all you have, while you stand trembling and helpless. 8You have plundered many nations; now they will plunder you. You murderers! You have filled the countryside with violence and all the cities, too.

9"How terrible it will be for you who get rich by unjust means! You believe your wealth will buy security, putting your families beyond the reach of danger. 10But by the murders you committed, you have shamed your name and forfeited your lives. 11The very stones in the walls of your houses cry out against you, and the beams in the ceilings echo the complaint.

12"How terrible it will be for you who build cities with money gained by murder and corruption! 13Has not the LORD Almighty promised that the wealth of nations will turn to ashes? They work so hard, but all in vain! 14For the time will come when all the earth will be filled, as the waters fill the sea, with an awareness of the glory of the LORD.

habakkuk said...

But the reaction i get from simply quoting the WORD of G-d (which is clear) is that i'm from some cult or something......Oh well, i guess Yeshua was right when He said we would be hated too....so i should expect it.

Yetter said...

Selective justice 7. What I have heard is you can't always fight a dishonest system, honestly.

tcob247 said...

HAB...

I don't think Yeshua means that you will be hated because you support mortgage elimination or Kurt......

It is the fact that he (JESUS) is GOD (not G-d) and there is no other way to salvation than through him and accepting his gift

habakkuk said...

"I don't think Yeshua means that you will be hated because you support mortgage elimination or Kurt......

It is the fact that he (JESUS) is GOD (not G-d) and there is no other way to salvation than through him and accepting his gift "

"MORTGAGE ELIMINATION"??...THATS TOO SIMPLE A WAY TO VIEW THIS WHOLE THING...THATS JUST ONE OF THE BENEFITS FROM EXPOSING THE FRAUD....IF YOU READ THE SCRIPTURE IN HAB 2 I JUST POSTED YOU WILL NOTICE THERE WERE WINNERS AND LOSERS IN THAT SCENARIO:

HAB 2: 7,8 7Suddenly, your debtors will rise up in anger. They will turn on you and take all you have, while you stand trembling and helpless. 8You (loser) have plundered many nations; now they (winners)will plunder you.

SO I DONT FEEL BAD FOR BEING ON THE RECEIVING END OF THIS WHOLE THING....THATS JUST ONE OF THE BENEFITS FOR BEING ON THE LORD'S SIDE AND BEING COUNTED AS ONE OF HIS CHILDREN. "THE WEALTH OF THE WICKED IS LAID UP FOR THE RIGHTEOUS".

I REALLY WANT TO FOCUS ON THE SYSTEM BEING AGAINST THE HIGHER LAW...G-D'S LAW. I WAS INTERESTED IN THAT BEFORE I EVEN KNEW THERE WAS A KURT JOHNSON OR DG.

AND IF YOU WANT TO CALL G-D JESUS THATS OK WITH ME...I JUST LIKE TO USE HIS HEBREW NAME THATS ALL...AFTER ALL, HE IS A JEW. AND IF YOU WANT TO USE THE GENERIC "GOD" THATS OK TOO. NOBODY'S FORCING YOU TO DO ANYTHING. IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO DECORATE THEIR HOUSE WITH EASTER BUNNIES AT PASSOVER THATS THEIR PEROGATIVE...I PERSONALY THINK ITS DEEPLY PAGAN...I DONT CARE HOW CUTE IT IS. BUT I DONT GO RUNNING THRU THE STEETS CALLING MY NEIGHBORS PAGANS.

tcob247 said...

I'm done posting religion or religious beliefs

Can't believe I dragged myself into it

My bad

It always turns out this way

Endless posting back and forth, nothing accomplished

habakkuk said...

Exactly.

habakkuk said...

The bottom line is i think this whole bank fraud issue is a deep moral issue and the last thing the banksters want is for the people to wake up and recognize that.

The same G-d that said "thou shalt not murder" said "no unjust weights and measures"......Those ideas were carried over by the people who formed this country and our laws. THEY DIDNT JUST MAKE IT UP. But its viewed as a new concept from some on this blog because we are so used to living in this corrupted system that ignores it. So guys like judge roy respond like this:

"Why do they have to fund the loan with their own assets? You're operating the dark ages based on mythology you picked up off the Internet. "

So if you think its ok just to shut G-d out of the conversation i'm sorry you feel that way. But who do you think came up with the concept?

KYHOOYA said...

habakkuk said...
If Chase bank could show me they funded my loan with their own assets I wouldn't be on this blog.......But when I asked them to validate the debt they ignore me......Is this the kind of system you like to live in where the banks are allowed to do whatever they damn well please???

Or maybe your indifferent because it doesn’t effect you directly... (yet).

6:03 PM
____________________________


Hey Hab!
I have one for you with regard to Chase.
I refi about two years ago and when the bank (Chase) sent a payoff demand and was paid it they then after the close started sending me statements saying that I still owed them 7 or $8K witch I sent to the title company and broker as Chase had they were going to send them a letter also.
Here's the kicker chase not getting the money they were asking for they did this



Chase Bank : Reported false misleading and harmful information in the form of a “Fraudulent Foreclosed” on my credit report and did so with the intention to cause me harm and prevent me from securing future credit without paying extort cost to do so if aloud to at all. One can only assume that they did this to try and extort me into paying them money they were not owed and were shown this more than once.



So their you go, how much more dose anyone need to show that the bank are corrupt and think, do, & get away with whatever they want.

I wonder how the neysayers will explain this as the banks doing the right thing and all is good in the world because the PTB told them is was the truth last night on the 6:00 news’s.

Lets not over look the fact that the case against Kurt & Scott be brought to trial or some conclusion has been going on now for 1 ½ year even longer when you take into account that the FBI said that they were gathering stuff from across the country before the arrest was warrant was sent out and the raids on their office wouldn’t you think that if your going to raid someone that you would be arresting them at that point and not just taking thing how is that so much the slap that said you better sop or we will make thing tougher on you.


Let’s see : Jailed for now on 1-1/2 yr.

Charges placed and then 9 mo. Later drop for whatever ! (the point being that if you were locked up for 9 mo. And the ones who did it Utah then said oh never mind we let these nice people over here have you instead you would be pissed to say the very least ) and that Is not how the system was set up you should be a reined 72 hr. next without weaver of time you are brought to trial 45 day’s . with some reasonable slack for time extension to ready fro the case . ( the government has had a lot of time to put together a case for this when they should have had one before the first arrest if that was the deal how did they know to arrest them for wrong doing if they didn’t even have enough to go to trial and say what it is they did without any doughty.
Seems to me to be a great stall in hopes that they can calm the group that was getting bigger by the day and posing a real treat against the banks and doing so by the rule that in place then


The fact that the banks are as we speak changing he terms to there credit card and loan to read the legal terms to stop the doing that dorean was rightfully in the process of doing .


Remember it wasn’t the Dorean group that ran away and let people hang out to dry with no backing it was the government hat lock them up took all there shit from the office and caused them to (by court order) to not have anything to do with the business . This is what caused everyone that was looking for help to sink. And the fact that they still sit there show that the government is out to let time calm thing down to the point it has and the banks can get there shit in order to stop it from be a legal chooses of people who find the info that the government left out when we went through school about the financing systems that govern the world
L8r

son of a prophet said...

kahooa said....



"...it was the government hat lock them up took all there shit from the office and caused them to (by court order) to not have anything to do with the business."





this wouold also seem to mean that if the DG wins, besided all the pple will be happy with they mtgs. beign dissolved and damages too, but the DG principals would theoretically have mucho $$$$ comaing to them for the govt. practicng "illegal restriction of trade" fo shutting down they DG business from conductiing opertions.

as all operations came to a halt, they lost big money because of interventions by the 'g'

tcob247 said...

kahooya said............

a reined

mogel said...

I sincerely beg you to watch this video. It was recently appearing in theaters across America until the Government shut it down. Sound familiar?

They Threatened the owners of theaters with being arrested if they ran the movie.
Don't wait. Watch it now.

Aaron Russos Freedom to Fascism... the whole movie in 4 parts...
http://www.poodlecrap.com/Hateliars/HL_Video1.asp?Part=0


when your finished with that... watch this....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3254488777215293198
Aaron Russo Interview

Scott from Vineland said...

tcob -
'yer a hoot, dude! a reined indeed. And hey man, don't apologize for speaking out for YOUR faith. Sometimes a single sentence says volumes. Thanks for stating your belief so succinctly. And if Kurt's people DO shred me on this forum, I'll try not to take it to heart. I don't think it's me personally that they hate, just the institution that they believe I represent.

habakkuk -
I'm sure you've been asked this question many times on this forum but since I'm new here, please indulge me.... if you are so strongly opposed to usury on moral grounds, how did your name end up on a mortgage in the first place? It's a pointed question, I know, but I think it's a fair one.

yetter-
Thanks for the Sagan quote. It really works for either side of the discussion.

oksure-
Still debating the call to Dr. Fred. I may have made contact with some family members through other means. Hope to hear tomorrow. To Kurt & Fred, please trust me here.... I promise to protect their privacy. Last I'll mention them in this forum and wouldn't have done so in the first place but wanted you guys to know I was real.
Good night to all -

habakkuk said...

habakkuk -
I'm sure you've been asked this question many times on this forum but since I'm new here, please indulge me.... if you are so strongly opposed to usury on moral grounds, how did your name end up on a mortgage in the first place? It's a pointed question, I know, but I think it's a fair one.

ABOUT FOUR YEARS AGO I GOT A CALL FROM A FRIEND WHO INVITED ME TO A MEETING THAT EXPLAINED WHAT THE BANKS WERE DOING. AT THE TIME I WAS A LOAN OFFICER AND A LITTLE SCEPTICAL AT FIRST....BUT THEN I DID MY OWN RESEARCH. AT THE MEETING THEY REFERENCED A LOT OF BIBLE SCRIPTURES AND THAT MADE ME DO A SEARCH IN THE BIBLE OF ALL THE PLACES THAT MAY GIVE ME AN INDICATION WHAT G-D'S VIEW WAS. THAT WAS EASY....ITS ALL OVER THE BIBLE.

I WAS ALREADY A CHRISTIAN BUT I NEVER REALLY PAYED ATTENTION TO THAT PART BEFORE. AT THAT POINT I ALREADY HAD A MORTGAGE.

~~The Swami~~~ said...

One of these days we're going to get tired of this crap and do something about it! Case in point-

1. Dare to ask the banks to prove they made a viable loan while running a legitimate business in California - - you get thrown in jail for over a year without a trial.

2. Have dirty pictures of children in California (Kiddie Porn) - well it's just too difficult to go through the trouble of a trial..........Let's let the kid lover pervert go home. (From Associated Press
SANTA ROSA, Calif. - The former suspect in the JonBenet Ramsey killing left jail Thursday after a judge dismissed child pornography charges against him, saying prosecutors didn’t have enough evidence to take the case to trial.

John Mark Karr was ordered released immediately by Sonoma County Superior Court Judge Rene Chouteau, ending his two-month odyssey in the U.S. criminal justice system after he was extradited from Thailand on suspicion of killing the 6-year-old beauty queen.)



That's some kind of judicial system you got there in California. Way to protect our kids!!!!

Scott from Vineland said...

h -
OK, so your moral opposition to usury is a fairly recent development. Did they happen to use Deuteronomy 23:20 in their presentation?

Deuteronomy 23:
19
Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury:

20
Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou settest thine hand to in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

21
When thou shalt vow a vow unto the LORD thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the LORD thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee.

So I guess the next question is, who do we define as our brother and who do we define as a stranger?

Also, I'm still curious if you're contending that you received no benefit from the money that the bank borrowed from the OTHER bank and subsequently loaned to you.

habakkuk said...

"Also, I'm still curious if you're contending that you received no benefit from the money that the bank borrowed from the OTHER bank and subsequently loaned to you."

My question to your question is WHO is the OTHER bank?

Scott from Vineland said...

h-
You're dodging the question and I think you know it. But I'll play along. Some major warehouse banks might be Deutsche Bank, US Bank, Guaranty Bank, Wachovia, et al. Your turn now.... Were you able to buy a house with the money or weren't you?

whatdoyoumean said...

Scott,

You are way behind the point in this argument. No one is denying that the house was received.

You are lacking foundation in this. When and how was the federal reserve act passed, and what did it allow. Those are vital to know. Without understanding how and when this scam was first instituted you could never understand. Start there and seriously look into it. How many people voted, how did they sneak it in, why did they have to sneak it in? You see if someone stole something then sold it to you and you found out they stole it are you still required to pay them? Can they sue you for the stolen item after they tricked you? Is a contract legally enforceable if it has material misrepresentations?

son of a prophet said...

yu could do the same thing with the income tax.

the 16th amendmendt was never ratified, yet the govt. instituted a income tax and everyone pays it willingly.

same deal there.

so i guess because what the banks do, doesnt make it necessarily right.

Scott from Vineland said...

whatdoyoumean -
Ohhhh..... OK, NOW I get it. You guys should have just TOLD me this was all about the whole Federal Reserve Act of 1913 thing. Hang on while I go get my tin-foil hat.......

OK, I'm back. Seriously, is that old conspiracy theory what's really driving you people? If paying Wells Fargo 5% interest on my mortgage spares me having to be that paranoid, I consider it a bargain.

mogel said...

Scott from Vineland Fantasy Land:

You can't say it's a BARGAIN, when you have material facts purposely not disclosed to you, nor can you effectively BARGAIN, when you aren't told the truth, the whole truth & nothing but the truth. YOu haven't even discussed how the bank's loan practices affect inflation which is a theft from everyone. Is that a bargain to you too. :o) You wouldn't know a conspiracy if you studied it obviously.