Monday, December 25, 2006

Faith’s Thesis (12-12-06)

This oratory thesis I hope to put forward to win my doctorate degree in faith. Because faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen I had to offer the theory in advance of the evidence arriving as part of the proof. Though my words here will be life to few and death to many my expectations are not of kindness. My friends like Scott from Vineland, Angel of Mercy, and those of their ilk. Those who love me but are blinded by the traditions of men that have bound them to the milk of the word and who by their own ignorant fears of the meat condemn their brother in false judgment. To you I hope to inspire you to taste of the meat and see that it is good. To take off the training wheels you have grown far too comfortable with and soar into the high calling of Jesus our Lord. Then there are those who only know the ideas or precepts of Christianity who pump themselves up with vain and useless knowledge to ridicule and pummel their victims with their tongues. They are the Tcob’s, Fruities, Neos and their kind. To you I take pleasure in the fact that this thesis will be a temptation of ammunition for you that you can’t resist, which exposes you for who you are. There are the government plant’s and people generally who believe evil good and good evil. You will find a confrontation in these words that expose you. There are those whom I love who have missed their great opportunity to know “If God be for you who can be against you?” and have lost their faith. These include brokers, agents, friends, employees etc. You I hope to be the consummate example of the truth of faith to so encourage you that the choices you made were wrong and that you will pick yourselves up, dust yourselves off, face the Lord again with a new hope and get back into the fight. Last is the only group that deserved me to take all the risk I have with Dorean and this thesis to give to you the justifying evidence for your “I told you so’s” though you probably will never say them to anyone more than to your own carnal soul who you war with constantly. Even if you only maintained a fingernail grip upon the promises of God it is my pleasure to offer you my life, the developing ground for this thesis, to cause you to sure up your grip and go for the ride of your life in the power and might of our Lord Jesus the Christ. Eternity is the breath behind all the aspirations of execution you have witnessed in your own experience and this thing called Dorean. To you this is a work of love.
This thesis is prophetic in nature because it is written in advance of eyesight, based upon the word of God, and spoken as His agent. Much substance will be contained for debate and comments so it will remain up as the only post for about a week or 10 days. Additionally circumstances will be changing during this time, which will alter the comments and positions of many. This is a live spiritual exercise to measure and expose in the Dorean microcosm the truth of the human condition.
Faith is an action word, a verb that is not synonymous with the noun belief. Belief is an elemental part of the motivation of the will in the action of faith if exercised. I have said on here before the ABC’s of faith are an Action based upon Belief sustained in Confidence. For this to please God and to receive grace from God in exchange this definition is limited to a Confidence of God’s word that moves the will to the action of faith. All other faith of similar model is the positive thinking formula of the world. This thesis focuses on this narrow parameter solely.
Faith and obedience are also not synonymous but rather are conjoined twins with the common vital organ of God’s word so that they remain inseparable and die independent of each other. 1 Cor. 7:19 states “obeying the commandments of God is everything” while Romans 1:17 says “the one who is righteous will live by faith.” Now Christ is the consummate example of this obedient faith. As Romans 3 makes clear that apart from the law Christ was revealed as the righteousness of God through His faith displayed to us who believe. He has become the author and finisher of this powerful faith in us. We as people rely on our senses and reason to develop the choices we’ll make. A child will reach for a flame but will remember the pain and not do it again. It is easy to live in the comfort of this developed wisdom. What is difficult is when you receive a word from God that runs contrariwise to this wisdom like “walk through the fire and you shall not be burned.” This is when the spiritual conflict between your miniscule wisdom verses the eternity of a faith opportunity is revealed.
Back in 1986 I was given a word from the Lord that was general as to His destiny for me and with some specifics that would appear on the path. One thing is for certain life in prison is incompatible with the promise. Over these 22 years all of the specifics have come to pass. Going to prison the first time was part of this. I can’t tell you how much ridicule and professions of evil I had to be assailed by over this time but is has always been as prolific as you see here. I think it must always come in measure equal to your confidence because the goal of it is always to remove your confidence in God’s word and to shift it back to worldly wisdom. As Scott and I have held on to God’s word for general deliverance we searched the word for specifics. About 6 months ago there became like a vapor a waft of insight that this was almost over. Many people picked up upon this and wrote us and told us. Then about 90 days ago a woman spoke as a prophet and said by Christmas you shall be released. Here my conflict begins. I have my desires that could easily align with this hope but my earthly wisdom says “no way!” Our last court date before Christmas, yesterday was an uneventful status conference pushing off my pretrial until 3-9 and trial until 3-26-07. I would say from a human wisdom point of view that about settles it. Even my friends of Job could say “Amen” in their hearts with me on this one. But this is where we differ.
Jesus is not an appendage snapped onto my personal wisdom who Amen’s my comfort. For me He is a God calling me to trust against my wisdom the promise of a word spoken by a God who cannot lie as a hope to draw me past and beyond what my eyes can see and my mind can know. This is a risk. Presently it is equal to the greatest risk of my life to date. Not because of the 25-life sentence threat but because my 22 years trek of ever increasing confidence in the reliability in God’s word and my ability to hear it and have it inspire the action of faith in me is at risk. This is my entire identity. It is the foundation of my manhood, my marriage, my relationships, all the choices I make and have made to get here. The fear in a man quickly tells us to flee from this kind of risk but Jesus in us says “if it is possible let this cup pass from me but never the less not my will but thine.” Is she really a prophet speaking for God, is my heart just so eager to get out that I’ll believe it, and don’t tell anyone, and wait and see, all are arguments that get swallowed up in a true picture of the true God. If God is the master of all things living He certainly can control her speaking and my hearing to prevent a witness of “thus sayeth the Lord.” Now that this witness has occurred I must now like Jesus realize this cup will not pass and I must rise up and walk towards my enemy. I will comfort them and boldly proclaim that God’s word can be trusted unto death. Sure a champion’s life lies before me to seize but at the risk of sharpening my enemy’s weapons they’ll use to slash and tear at me if I fail. If I do not rise to the high calling of faithing I have failed already and have merely delayed my discomfort of defeat for a season. If I take this faith opportunity I can receive a continuation of my long string of confidence. I can see the power of God displayed in my generation like I read of generations past. If I take the risk to speak of this truth in advance of its taking place I shut the mouths of fools and inspire my brother and sister faithers to pursue God with wreckless abandon with confidence. When faced with this painful choice my spiritual discipline guides me to offer the sacrifice of praise. This is a praise that reaches below the depths of my fears and elevates my eyes of faith to see the God of potential, miracles, and faithfulness. Out of the mouths of babes and infants He has perfected praise. I picture Christ on His triumphant entry with His face set firm on the promise pain and all receiving praise from these children waving palm branches, dancing, kneeling, with raised hands, shouting “Hosanna.” Like these children a childlike faith calls this praise forth from my lips. We faithers are a peculiar people. We war not with guns or swords but with spiritual weapons like praise, faith, music, the word etc. Who would run towards an army with a tambourine, shout at a wall, or use a blog? My eyes do not look to an ominous federal government with criminal intent as the fact but rather the promise of God as fact
Not only do they see my deliverance as promised, they also see the landscape beyond. Dorean will go down in history as a catalyst of some of the most sweeping economic changes in our lifetime. Fannie Mae is sentenced to death as we know it. Home values are going to recalibrate to absorb the sudden change in credit flow. Those who trust in the Lord will prosper in this change while others will lose equity. After this world economics will change drastically. Europe will head into a recession and an attraction for the dollar will return like never before. War or battles in the Mideast will increase at this time and not diminish. Things will sure up there quickly after much more destabilization. The Arab nations will resolve the conflicts by developing a unified governmental model like the EU from themselves. Europe’s weakness being aided by a departure of England and our strength will assist this region to come to this resolve suddenly. All this will take place during the next presidency. The increase in conflict will begin before Bush’s exit. Furthermore God will use the success of Dorean to create a platform of ministry where people will come seeking business knowledge and leave spiritually transformed. Others will have their faith so inspired they will trust God and receive miracles that will move this nation back towards holiness. The fake judiciary, which is merely the collection agency of the executive treasonous branch being exposed and reduced in power. God will enter into this now found faith and give a reprieve a rest for the people. The progress of theft being reversed. Even now as I write this God is placing the spark in some of your hearts to be these faithers for your generation. Let the faith of Christ explained here and the success of Dorean be a model and inspiration and believe God for big things. The back drop of all this is Christ made a spectacle of His enemies by the cross because of His obedient faith and we can join Him in this spectacle of today’s enemies by our obedient faith which is the faith of Christ living in us. In the end I say the faith of Christ has promised me to be more than a conqueror and it makes the same promises to you. Houses, families, reputations, credit ratings, jobs, friends can all be used as devices to move your eyes of faith from the prize but none will be a worthy substitute in the end. When God speaks He amen’s His own words and nothing becomes something. All creation is a constant witness of this truth if we’ll look at it. Join me as I join God and let us all in one harmonic chorus say “AMEN!” Adam made the wrong choice in the beginning and we suffer from his deposit in us but Christ returned us full circle to make the choice again on our own. Will you Amen the first Adam or the second? As for me and my house including Scott we will serve the Lord!

180 comments:

Ocean Sailor said...

I have been an American Sailor in the Sea of Life...Kurt's Lighthouse is Bright and Steady. The promised Land for the Faithful American Souls is ready is to be revealed. The harbor for Truth awaits us all. AMEN! Thank for my brother and Peace to all who understand...

son of a prophet said...

"Is she really a prophet speaking for God, is ...."


---------------------------------


at the risk of getting k's alienation and condemnation, i am compelled by god to say what i must say now. I believe taht k is a brother in christ, BUT....


there is not and has never been a female prophet, except for that evil "prophetess" JEZEBEL, who paid for her evil, was pushed out the window so the the dogs could pick at her bones and even this ws too good for jezeebel.

this comes from the same unbiblical school of thught that says that women can be priests/pastors/ministers etc.

although, this idea is not as important as it once was, as today there are no biblical churches so thus there are no "pastors" male or female.

there is only ONE teaching pastor- the HS.

son of a prophet said...

AS GOD THE FATHER IS THE HEAD OF THE SON (CHRIST), THE SON/CHRIST IS HEAD OF THE CHURCH(MEN) AND MEN IS THE HEAD OF WOMEN

just as jesus reps the head of the church to men, men rep the head of the church to women.


any women who oppose this idea are then rebellious and are really opposing christ, although they will say differntly.

and any men pastors who agree, only say so to get women in the (false and unbiblical) churches which exist today. sort of like a womens equal rights for pastors.


no way to the father but thrugh the son, and no way to the son but thruough man.

women who believe ofhterwise sectrely hate men, but women were not made by god to understand spititual things; so they rebel agsinst god when they say tehy can understand spiritual things.


also there has never been a women theologian. WHY??? not capable.

son of a prophet said...

if a woman wants to serve christ, she should fidn a man and serve him.

but they have been brainwashed into believing that this is slaveery.

or they say, should they serve an unbiblical man?

the anser is YES, THEY SHOUDL.

LET GOD TAKE CARE OF THE UNBLBICAL MAN. MAYBE GOD STRIKE THEM DEAD OF A HEARTH ATTACK, BUT THIS IS GODS BUSINESS, NOT HERS.

HER JOB IS TO TAKE CARE OF HER BUSINNESS, AND DO LIKE GOD SAID.

SERVE MAN, IN DOING SO, SHE SERVES CHRIST. SHE WILL BE TAKEN CARE OF IN OTHER WAYS SPIRITUALLY, BUT NO WOMEN TODAY UNDERSTAND THIS.

son of a prophet said...

who tells me this wisdom?

THE HOLY SPIRIT.

son of a prophet said...

"HER JOB IS TO TAKE CARE OF HER BUSINNESS, AND DO LIKE GOD SAID"




OK. it doesnt mean her job is to TCOB

women out there, i didnt say to take care of TCOB....LOLOLO!

whyudothat said...

son of a prophet said... also there has never been a women theologian. WHY??? not capable.

they say only 1 in 4 for women admit themselves that they are even CAPABLE of having an orgasm! (we feel for you)

now you're saying that women are not capable of being a theologian either!

whats next?

mogel said...

SOP: How about "Deborah" the prophetess? I think you need to read your Bible more!!!! Isn't it kind of SEXIST to say that women can't be prophetesses and prophesy too? Is God a partial & prejudicial God & only gives his gifts to men?


Luke 2: 36-37

"And there was one Anna, a PROPHETESS, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and havd lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;

37: And she was a widow of about forescores and four years, which departed not from the temple, BUT SERVED GOD WITH FASTINGS AND PRAYERS NIGHT AND DAY.

Exodus 15: 20

"And Miriam THE PROPHETESS, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with tembreis and with dances.

2 Kings 22: 14

So Hilkirah, the priest and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asahian, went unto HULDAH THE PROPHETESS, THE WIFE OF SHALLUM.....

Joel 2: 28

"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will POUR OUT MY SPIRIT UPON ALL FLESH; and your sons AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, you old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions;

mogel said...

son of a prophet said... also there has never been a women theologian. WHY??? not capable.
________________________________
Mary Baker Eddie?

Millions believe she was a theologian.

mogel said...

Kurt said: "Additionally circumstances will be changing during this time, which will alter the comments and positions of many."
__________________________________
That's good enough for me.

son of a prophet said...

mark baker eddy?

yes, she was also a false prophetess.

son of a prophet said...

Isn't it kind of SEXIST to say that women can't be prophetesses and prophesy too? Is God a partial & prejudicial God & only gives his gifts to men?



mog, you can debate it with god if you like.

"sexist" is a manmade term, not a biblical one.


there are no women prophets.

son of a prophet said...

let me clear something up here:


we are all called to "prophesy"

i did not mention, but just assume that one knows what i am talking aubt when i mean by the word "prophet"

theese women you mentioned, yes, they were referred to as "propthetesses" in the sense tht the bible is referring to a term that in those days only men "prophesied" as in spreading the word of god


anyone who spread the good news of god was a prophet, in a sense.

as i was referring to the word prophet, which k was talking aoubt, i meant a prophet in the sense of the old test prophs; ones that were given advance word by god of the future events.

of this meaning, i stand by what i have said: there arent/havent been/wont be any in the future women prophetesses.

sorry women, but that the way god made it. go argue with god if yo dont like it. :-)

son of a prophet said...

so if k means advance word of some futrue event by some womand that he knows, she is most defintely a false prophetess adn cannot be relied upon for knowledge.

if i was k, i would rely on the HS guidance and wisdom.

that means his "gut instinct will probably be guided by the HS

IN ANY CASE, HIS JUDGEMENT AS A MAN HAS TO BE BETTER THAN A WOMENS JUDGMENT AS SHE CANNOT POSSIBLY BE A PROPHET AS A WOMAN.

IF WHAT K IS DOING IS GUUIDED BY THE HS, THEN WHATEVER DECIDSION THAT HE MAKES WILL BE BLESSED BY THE HS, AND HE CANT GO WRONG.

IF HOWEVER, HE BASES HIS DECISIONS ON A WOMAN WHO CLAIMS TO BE A PROPHTETESS, HE IS GUARENTEED TO BE WRONG. IN THE SHORT TERM IT MAIGHT APPEAR THE CORRECT DECISOIN, BUT LONG TERM IT WILL PROVE TO BE THE INCORRECT ONE.

HE SHOULD JUST GO BY HIS GUT, WHICH WILL BE GUIDED BY THE HS ALTHOUGH HE MAY NOT REALIZE IT YET.

SOMETHING OF THIS MUCH SIGNIFICANCE WILL FEEL UNMISTAKEABLE PRESSURE TO DO SOMETHING CORRECTLY. THE HS EXERTS THIS PRESSURE TO GUIDE TO THE CORRECT DECISON.

mogel said...

SOP: How about Deborah, the prophetess prophesying that Israel would prevail in battle before it happened:

Judges Chapt. 4 & Chapt. 5

A prophetess by definition is one that can prophesy & know the future too.

Where in the Bible does it say that a woman CAN'T prophesy & know the future? What do you think "dreams & visions" are if they aren't things to be or pertaining to the future?

Is it a lie that Mary the mother of Jesus did not receive a vision of the future & prophesied that she would conceive a son & she knew that her son would be Divine & that her son would be the Redeemer of the world? Wasn't she a witness to these future events? Didn't Elizabeth, Mary's cousin, also receive a vision that Mary, the mother of Jesus was pregnant too? How could she know this if she also wasn't a prophetess? Didn't Elisabeth the mother of John the Baptist also receive a vision of the great things her son would do? Didn't Sariah receive a prophetic vision of the future that she would get pregnant, far past her fertile years & she laughed at the very thought but saw it to be & was told it would happen? Did it happen as she was told?

Your assumptions are ridiculous; just as ridiculous to say that God's church can't be on the earth anymore & that ALL churches without exception are man-made. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

I don't need to debate with God since he has already spoken in several places on these issues in the scriptures.

whatdoyoumean said...

Sop,

And the next [day] we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was [one] of the seven; and abode with him.
Act 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.
Act 21:10 And as we tarried [there] many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.
Act 21:11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver [him] into the hands of the Gentiles.
Act 21:12 And when we heard these things, both we, and they of that place, besought him not to go up to Jerusalem.


God speaks through men, and I completely disagree with you about there being no pastors or teachers on earth any more. You need to realize that God speaks through men. HE spreads HIS gospel through men, and men don't have to be perfect to speak HIS word. You can be off in some things and as long as you get the ONE doctrine right, you will be ok. Let's eat the meat and spit out the bones. No man has everything right, God set the bar real low for us. Just believe in your heart, and confess with your mouth that Jesus is LORD.

mogel said...

Ephesians 5: 11-15

And he gave some apostles, and some prophets; and some evangelists, and some pastors, and teachers;

For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ;

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and to the knowledge of the Son of God, UNTO A PERFECT MAN, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ;

That we henceforth be no more children tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.

But speaking the truth in love, may grow up unto him in ALL THINGS, which is the head, even Christ.
________________________________
Don't think the God's church exists today?

Acts 4: 20-21:

"And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Whom the heaven must receive UNTIL THE TIMES OF RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

son of a prophet said...

i did not say that churches do not exist anymore.

i said that there are no biblical churches anymore and stand by that statement.

the "church" is the group of all true beleivers.

yes, mary did recieve a vision.
this did not make her a perophet(ess)

god speaks thru the HS. if men reveal what the HS has told them, so be it.

dgwondering said...

The person writing as Kurt said:
"Furthermore God will use the success of Dorean to create a platform of ministry where people will come seeking business knowledge and leave spiritually transformed."

As long as they bring their $$$, right?

son of a prophet said...

and regarding the other 5 womem who were called 'propehtesses", these woman were given a specific task and i would even differ with the bible calling them prophetess.

in deborahs case, she actually made statements like, "has not the LORD said..(this or that) meaning that the men shoudl have heard it but were not paying attention.


an old testament prophet was appointed of god, not a one time task for a specific purpose.

are you going to coampare the women you say to the bonafide prophtets like....daniel, isiaih,jeremiah,ezekiel, etc...


this is like comparing littel leaguer to major leaguers; ie., there is no comparison.

son of a prophet said...

in any event, you beleive on yeshua, so there is no point in arguing over defintions.

nonetheless, as far as k goes, if i were him, i would rely on the HS for guidance and not a woman, especially if she calims to be some kind of (false) self-prophetess

son of a prophet said...

btw, its a good thing that Timothy isnt aruond today, as you know what he said about it, dont you?


he said that "women should remain silent in church" LOLO!

and i have already heard all the 'TWISTINGS' of this verse, but it means exactly what it says...ie., women shoud just shut up when in church as teaching comes form men, the head of women regarding the church.


also from Timitohy. "womnen shoudl not teach, NOR have authority over men"


hmmmmm.....wonder why that is??

its because there is nothing regarding the spirit that a woman can teach a man as she was not made of god to understand spritual things.

mogel said...

SOP: I think you misunderstand the patriarchal way of doing things with spirituality.

Generally speaking, I find woman on the whole more spiritual than men.

I wonder why you never see in the scriptures the phrase, "daughters of perdition"? You do see, "sons of perdition" though. Could it be because they don't exist?

Men with all their testosterone confusing the situation, would rather beat you up first and start a war rather than try to communicate and stop a war from starting unlike women do who are more apt to create peace over contention through communication. Women on the whole are not so concerned with domination and power and the unwise use of it. Men throughout the centuries who have been the leaders of the world since the beginning of time, have shown a propensity to just screw things up. How spiritual is that?

son of a prophet said...

OH, I ALMOST FORGOT...ONE OTHER THING ABOUT "PROPHETS" appointed by god.....



THEY ARE N-E-V-E-R WRONG!!


NOT EVEN ONCE.

so, assuming for a minute that women can be prophet(esses), then you better make sure that the prophetess that you or k listen to has NEVER been wrong on even one of their 'prophecies'; no fudge factor allowed.


ask them if they have ever been wrong. i already knwo the answer w/o even having to ask....

son of a prophet said...

while i agree with th principle of the DG and think its good, i have major disagreements with some of these so called prophets(most of them are men) who say 2006 this and 2007 that, or NESARA or etc.

then when it doesnt happen, its like "well, we had some unexpected ocurrences, or......"

wait a minute, you are a prophet, what kind of unecpted occurencs are yo talking about, nothing for you shoud be unexpected. you are a (phony) prophet rember?

not to be confused with the fact tha t i think that stuff like NESARA if its real is good for ppl. just dont mix it up with prophets or stuff like taht. that where ppl get into truouble.

son of a prophet said...

wht happen to the woman prophet who said that may 15 2003 was going to get hit with a comet??


geuss she was a false propetess.

son of a prophet said...

Generally speaking, I find woman on the whole more spiritual than men.


I disagree mog. wahat you find is women who a more falsely spiritual than men.



sons of perdition is referring to mankind and men as the spiritual leaders.
\

and yes, the planet is run by men and most of them right now are evil. but that doesnt change the fact that the head of women is men reagarding spiritual thing.

as screwed up as this planet is, and its prttty screwed up, IF women goverend the planet, IT WOULD BE TOTAL INSANITY for the reasons that i have prevfiously given.

i will give you one.

why does the 144000 jews who will be saved durign the tribulation only those who HAVE NOT DEFILED THEMSELVES WITH WOMEN???

must be somehting to it??

and we are not talking about fornicatiors here either, but married men who would have had a right to have sex with they wife if they wnated to?

and the bible uses the word DEFILED THEMSELVES WITH WOMEN.

explan away the word DEFILED?????

NO. THYE MUST BE PURE AND BEING WITH A WOMAN DEFILSE THEM.

i love women mog, but when it comes to spiritual things, they just didnt get it form god. thats the way god made it.

anyone who follows a woman for spirtual gudiance is following a false prophettess. sorry.

mogel said...

SOP said: "why does the 144000 jews who will be saved durign the tribulation only those who HAVE NOT DEFILED THEMSELVES WITH WOMEN???"
__________________________________
As opposed to men who DEFILE THEMSELVES WITH MEN (Homosexuality). Nothing special there.

SOP said: Sons of perdition is referring to "mankind". Mankind refers to both men and women, I'm sorry to say.
Do you know of anywhere in the Bible where it refers to a female evil Spirit coming to tempt anyone?

Even the head of evil is Satan, a male Spirit.

If you want to make a case that men are better leaders generally speaking, than woman, or that it's God's way for that, or that the greatest prophets happen to be men, I won't argue that point, but to say that women can't prophesy or can't know the future, or that women can't be a true prophetess too, or that God can't inspire women in ways that even men can't be inspired, I beg to differ, since the scriptures say otherwise.

When Christ came back after his resurrection, who did Christ FIRST APPEAR TO. Remember his 12 apostles weren't spiritually in tune enough since they all denied him in a sense, and weren't fully converted yet, and didn't understand all of Jesus's words, so Jesus appeared to Mary First, who was more spiritually in tune than the so called leaders at the time. Jesus told Mary to tell this to the 12 apostles. She was met with doubt & contempt from the 12 apostles was she not? What kind of spirituality and faith is that?

Most of the apostles laughed at Mary's story that he was resurrected, even though that's what the message Jesus told his apostles first hand before he died that after 3 days he would raise his body from the grave. Even though they walked & talked with Jesus, still they weren't fully converted, nor were they spiritually in tune enough to fully understand Jesus's mission.

This lack of credibility given to women is in keeping with the lack of respect culturally speaking that men gave to women back in olden times & that disrespect continues today: "If it comes from a woman, it can't be trusted".

It took Jesus to formally appear to all of the 12 apostles to erradicate all of their doubts, so even the 12 apostles, hand picked by Jesus, were children spiritually in many ways & didn't develop great faith until much later after Jesus's death.

Jesus said to Peter: "When thou art converted, strengthen they brethren". Even Peter, the greatest of all the apostles, denied him three times. How spiritual is that?

son of a prophet said...

SOP said: "why does the 144000 jews who will be saved durign the tribulation only those who HAVE NOT DEFILED THEMSELVES WITH WOMEN???"
__________________________________
As opposed to men who DEFILE THEMSELVES WITH MEN (Homosexuality). Nothing special there.


Mog, there is a LOT new there, as it doesnt even consider homesexualty, as THAT IS A GIVEN. ITS ALREADY COVERED AS A SIN. NO. IT IS TALKING ABOUT A MAN BEING DEFILED BY A WOMAN.

SOP said: Sons of perdition is referring to "mankind". Mankind refers to both men and women, I'm sorry to say.
Do you know of anywhere in the Bible where it refers to a female evil Spirit coming to tempt anyone?

NO, IT DOESNT BECAUSE SPIRTIUAL LEADERS ARE ALWASY MEN, WHETHER GOOD OR EVIL, BUT ALWAYS MEN NONETHELESS; THATS WHY THE SONS OF PERDITION, WOMAN ARENT EVEN IN THE GAME, SO THEY COULDNT BE CONSIDERED HERE.

Even the head of evil is Satan, a male Spirit.

THATS EXACTLY MY POINT; ALWAYS A MALE HEAD, GOOD OR BAD.

If you want to make a case that men are better leaders generally speaking, than woman, or that it's God's way for that, or that the greatest prophets happen to be men, I won't argue that point, but to say that women can't prophesy or can't know the future, or that women can't be a true prophetess too, or that God can't inspire women in ways that even men can't be inspired, I beg to differ, since the scriptures say otherwise.

I DONT AGREE THAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY OTHERWISE.

When Christ came back after his resurrection, who did Christ FIRST APPEAR TO. Remember his 12 apostles weren't spiritually in tune enough since they all denied him in a sense, and weren't fully converted yet, and didn't understand all of Jesus's words, so Jesus appeared to Mary First, who was more spiritually in tune than the so called leaders at the time. Jesus told Mary to tell this to the 12 apostles. She was met with doubt & contempt from the 12 apostles was she not? What kind of spirituality and faith is that?

Most of the apostles laughed at Mary's story that he was resurrected, even though that's what the message Jesus told his apostles first hand before he died that after 3 days he would raise his body from the grave. Even though they walked & talked with Jesus, still they weren't fully converted, nor were they spiritually in tune enough to fully understand Jesus's mission.

This lack of credibility given to women is in keeping with the lack of respect culturally speaking that men gave to women back in olden times & that disrespect continues today: "If it comes from a woman, it can't be trusted".


YES. MARY WAS THE FIRST TO SEE HIM; BUT AGAIN, THIS FACT HAS NOTHING TO DO WHATSOEVER WITH THE FACT THAT THERE ARENT ANY WOMEN PROPHETS. THERE WERE MANY WOMEN WHO SERVED GOD, RUTH, ESTHER, ETC. BUT THIS IS DIFFERNET THAN BEIGN A PROPHET.

It took Jesus to formally appear to all of the 12 apostles to erradicate all of their doubts, so even the 12 apostles, hand picked by Jesus, were children spiritually in many ways & didn't develop great faith until much later after Jesus's death.

Jesus said to Peter: "When thou art converted, strengthen they brethren". Even Peter, the greatest of all the apostles, denied him three times. How spiritual is that?


WE ALL DENY JESUS EVERY DAY, EVEN US "RIGHTEOUS" CHRISITANS, BECAUSE WE ARE SINNERS NO MATTER WHAT WE DO. THE ONLY TRUE AND RIGHTEOUS CHRISTIAN IS A DEAD ONE AS HE CANNOT SIN ANYMORE AND HAS FULFULLED HIS PUPOSE RIGHT TILL THE END.

WHILE ALIVE, WE ARE ALL SOMEWHAT OF A JESUIT, BECAUSE WE CRAVE EARTHLY THINGS, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE FOR EACH INDIVIAL, WHETERH MONYE, OR HOUSE OR CAR OR WOMEN OR .....GETTING A MTG PAID FOR BY THE DG. IT DOESNT MATTER.

IS A SERVANT GREATER THAN HIS MASTER??


ARE WE GREATER THAN THE ORIGINAL APOSTLES??

IF PETER DENIED YESHUA 3 TIMES, DO YOU THINKG THAT WE ARE CAPABLE TO NEVER DENY HIM??

WE DENY HIM ON A DIALY BASIS. ANYONE WHO SAYS THEY DONT IS EITHER A LIAR, OR DOESNT UNDERSTAND SCIRPTURE WITH THE HS.

THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT WE ARE FORGIVIEN ON A DIALY BASIS.

MOG, I BELIEVE THAT JOE SMITH WAS A FALSE PROPET. BUT I DONT HAMMER YOU WITH IT EVERYDAY. WHY???

BEACAUSE I REACHED A LEVEL TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE HS MUST DO HIS WORK. I CANNOT (NOR CAN ANYONE ELSE) CONVINCE YOU OF THIS, IN TIME THE HS WILL CONVINGCE YOU.

THAT MAKES ME DIFFERENT FROM ALL THE OTHER APPROACHES TO WIETNESSING THAN EVEYONON ELSE USES.

AND I AM DEF NOT SELF RIGHTEWOUS AS i AM A SINNER AS EVERYONE ELSE IS. MAYBE GIVEN MORE HS WISDOM, BUT NONEHTELESS A SINNER LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

AND TO THE ONE THAT JOKINGLY SAID

GRACE=LICENSE TO SIN

I AM GLAD THAT I HAVE GRACE BEACAUSE UNLIKE THE WRITER OF THAT STATEMENT, I AM A SINNER. APPARENTLY THE WRITER IS NOT A SINNER SO HE NEEDS NO GRAACE.

son of a prophet said...

and excuse all my bad typing, as i go into too many forums and do too much typing and my fingers must be getting arthitic, as my fingers ache and i constantly hit the wrong keys and if i had to go back to correct aevery post before posting it, i would never get anythign posted.

mogel said...

SOP said: "AND TO THE ONE THAT JOKINGLY SAID

GRACE=LICENSE TO SIN"
________________________________
I'm sure he wasn't joking! He was serious and he probably is appalled at the hypocrisy of most christians. A strong belief should equal actions that are consistent with beliefs.

So how is a man defiled by a woman if it isn't talking about a sexual sin there in that verse? The 144,000 were just all virgins, no big deal.

Are you interpreting something that I missed?

mogel said...

SOP said:
"I AM GLAD THAT I HAVE GRACE BEACAUSE UNLIKE THE WRITER OF THAT STATEMENT, I AM A SINNER. APPARENTLY THE WRITER IS NOT A SINNER SO HE NEEDS NO GRAACE."
__________________________________
Titus 2: 11

"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation HATH APPEARED TO ALL MEN."

Grace is cheap. As a matter of fact it's free. All get it.

mogel said...

1 Cor 15: 21-23:

"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ, shall ALL BE MADE ALIVE.

But EVERY MAN in his own order....

CHEAP GRACE. WE DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO GET THE GIFT OF GRACE, WHICH IS THE GIFT OF THE RESURRECTION OR TO LIVE AGAIN AFTER DEATH. CHRIST PAID THE PENALTY OF SIN WHICH ORIGINAL SIN CAUSED DEATH, & CHRIST ABSOLVED THIS PENALTY THROUGH HIS OWN MERITS & BLOOD; THIS GIFT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MAN'S WORTHINESS OR MAN'S WORKS.

We'll all live again, both the wicked and the righteous.

neodemes said...

"WE DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO GET THE GIFT OF GRACE, WHICH IS THE GIFT OF THE RESURRECTION OR TO LIVE AGAIN AFTER DEATH"

ummm...you might want to at least mention repentance...

mogel said...

Nope. Don't have to repent if something is free if you're only talking about grace.

Only have to talk about repentence if you want to talk about salvation.

son of a prophet said...

mogman said...

So how is a man defiled by a woman if it isn't talking about a sexual sin there in that verse? The 144,000 were just all virgins, no big deal.

Are you interpreting something that I missed?



-----------------------


mog, i think that there is meore to it.

yes, it means virgins, but that in itself says seomthing. it inderectly says that even married men are spritually defiled by having sex with a women.

now the bible says that the marrige bed is undefiled, as regards to sin; but not spiritual awareness. notice (i bleieve) that all the MAJOR proptets were single and undefieled.

the 144K could only remian undefield as virgins, so what does this tell you. if they go have sex with a woman, they are defiled. (unpure spiritually)

if it was only a sexual sin, then the bible could have said as much.

but married men who do not commit adutlery do not commit sexual sin. so it could have included marreid men, but did not.

so the inference is that haveing sex wiht a woman, defiels a man spirutually , wherther married or not.

son of a prophet said...

also, and I dont know where the verse is, but paul did say that one can serve the LORD better by reamining unmaaried.

he says that when single, ones foucs on yeshua, but when marreid, ones focus is on ones wife.

that verse clears this issue up completely.

lying with a woman, defiels a man sp;irutally wheter marreid or unmarried.

son of a prophet said...

and regarding unbiblical churches...its just a matter of what the HS makes you recognize it and when.


frogetting for now even wheterh a church has the correct doectrine, catholic, mormon, 7th day, etc.


as the bible itself says taht ALL churches must eventually be infiltrated by rome and conquered by rome, then at what point do you say that this has happened??

it must happen, does it not?

so, what i am saying is that this is not a futrue event, but has already ocuured,

most peple thisnk that this means that like the temple, that the churches will be physically destroyed. this is not the case.

they are alerdy 'destroyed" from the "inside" ie., rome has already infiltrated all the churches with their agensts, like the CIA, covertly, by mixing truth with some lies in doctrine, as lucifer knows how to be subtle. he knows even one lie in the church will take the whole chruch down.

yes, todays church are already destoryed from the insied as they are doctrinally bankrupt.

they also are ALL 501-c croportions. WHAT WULD YESHUA HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH INCORPORATING HIS CHURCH?????

NOTHING!!!

SO THIS IS ANTOHER STAKE IN THE HEART OF THE CHURCH TODAY; THEY ARE ALL CORPORATE.

WHY NOT THE CHURCH USE THE DG FO THEY MORTGEE TO GET IT ELIMINATED.

MIGHT AS WELL.....

son of a prophet said...

SORRY!!

BUT I JUST THOUGHT OF THIS LOLOLOLO!!!

FOR REAL I WAS LAUGHING TO MYSELF VERY, VERY LOUDLY AFTER I MADE THE LAST SENTECNE TO MY LAST POST ABOUT THE CHURHC GOING TO THE DG.


I WAS LAUGHING WEHN I TRIED TO PICTURE YESHUA FILLING OUT A QUIT CLAIM FORM.....LOLOLOLOLOLOLO!!!

son of a prophet said...

"...BUT YESHUA, THIS PROGRAM WILL GET US OUR CHURCH FOR FREE!!!"

"...DEPART FROM ME...."


LOLOLO!

son of a prophet said...

getting drunk on TOO MUCH LOLOLOLO!

out of work? looking fo a job?

APPLY HERE:

HUNDREDS APPLY TO BE SADDAMS HANGMAN


27 December 2006



BAGHDAD/WASHINGTON - Hundreds of Iraqis have applied to act as executioner of former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein following the confirmation of his death sentence by Iraq’s appeals court, an adviser to Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Al Maliki said on Wednesday.


Bassam Al Husseini was quoted as saying by US television channel ABC members from all three leading religious communities and all ethnic groups were amongst the applicants.

Iraq has not got an official executioner and no such position had been advertised, ABC said.

The death sentence against Saddam Hussein for crimes against humanity had been upheld by Iraq’s appeals court on Tuesday.

Following the ruling, Presiding Judge Munir Haddad declared at a press conference that the death sentence had to be carried out within 30 days, according to Iraqi law.

Saddam’s half-brother and former intelligence chief Barzan Al Tikriti and Awad Ahmed Al Bandar, one of Saddam’s former aides, were also sentenced to death.

Saddam, 69, and six of his former top government aides were found guilty of ordering the killing of 148 Shias in the town of Dujail in 1982 in retaliation for an attempt on Saddam’s life.

The US government on Tuesday praised the sentence, saying it continued to applaud the “courageous efforts” of Iraqi judges in ”ensuring that justice prevails in the atrocities that Saddam Hussein committed against the Iraqi people.”

Defence lawyers for Saddam Hussein said the trial had been politically motivated.

“These are political courts that have nothing to do with legality, because they have been set up by invaders and people who came from Iran and their agendas met on the destruction of Iraq and its people,” the head of Saddam’s defence panel Khalil Duleimi told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa.

whatdoyoumean said...

S.o.p.

While I agree with you on the principle that 501c3's are wrong and some of the other issues. You are mistaken about the churches being destroyed.

You don't have to be 100% healthy to walk around and contribute to the kingdom. The Church is the "body of Christ". I can walk with a sprained ankle, eat with a bad tooth, limp around with a bad knee. You are SEVERELY mistaken that because the church isn't 100% healthy, they are dead. People are being saved, delivered, and the Holy Spirit is moving in the congregation I attend, and many others I know.

You have a defeatist mentality. Jesus said that "the gates of hell won't prevail against His Church". That means we should be pushing hell back into their own endzone, not even letting them out through the gates. You however say that since the devil got a few licks in we should leave the battlefield. The Holy Spirit works through people. He inspired people to write the Bible. Now you claim HE has abandoned His work on Earth through men? If a man has any flaw that he can't be used? You should be a part of a group of believers helping them to get set free, instead of typing away saying all churches are wrong and we should all go home and just listen and learn on our own. You should be doing both. If something a Pastor says doesn't line up then you correct them in love and move on taking no offense. I hope you accept this the same.

son of a prophet said...

" The Church is the "body of Christ"


S.T.O.P.


it says nothing about buildings and where people assemble and call "themselves" a churhc.

the churhc is the people. PERIOD.


NO BUILDINGS, PASTORS, CALLING YOURSELF A CHURCH.

SO WHAT ARE YOU WHEN YOU ARE OUTSIDE THE BUILDING???

NOT PART OF THE CHURCH ANYMORE?

AND IF YOU ARE, THEN WHY BOTHER TO GO THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

TO BE WITH OTHER BELIEVRS?

BUT YOU JUST SAID THAT YOU DONT NEED TO BE IN A CHURHC TO BE WITH OTHER BELEIVERS.

THE FACT REMINS THAT IN A CHURHC, YOU FEEL THAT YOU ARE BEING TAUGHT BY A "PASTOR"

AGAIN, I CANNOT CONVINCE YOU OHTERWISE, THE HS MUST DO THAT.

PASOTRS CANNOT TEACH YOU ANYTHING.

ONLE THE HS CAN TEACH YOU.

mogel said...

SOP said: "so the inference is that haveing sex wiht a woman, defiels a man spirutually , wherther married or not."
__________________________________
An atheist might say, things God are involved with are evil. Since God created the earth & has all power & allows horrible things to happen to good people, God must therefore not exist. Since he created the earth & the world is evil, then, God must be evil, and there can't be a creator known as God, but since God created the earth & God is supposedly good and merciful, he therefore can't exist because to believe in him is a contradiction.

God sanctioned marriage with Adam & Eve, & with all people because he said, "multiply & replenish the earth", & "what God has joined together, let no man put asunder", so anything God creates or has anything to do with must be evil or wrong.
God created sex, so having sex is evil.

You think like an atheist sometimes.

Your thinking stems back to puritan type of thinking where sex is considered evil or wrong or dirty.

This is why the "Virgin Birth" mystery thing has been perpetuated. Mary is holy, therefore, she couldn't have had sex since having sex is unholy. To say Mary, had sex with God the Father, makes both unholy, so the very thought is ridiculous, but for Jesus to be the Son of God literally, & the only Begotten of the Father, such a sex union, makes total sense. Or you can call it a miracle & ignore everything else the scriptures say.

Mary is a virgin in the sense she had no sex with a mortal man. God is NOT a mortal man, but an exalted Being. But for God to have sex sounds to some that you are committing blasphemy because there exists this puritanical idea that sex is wrong & dirty that has been perpetuated througout the centuries.

A friend use to tell me "if God created something better than sex, he done kept it to himself."

How can sex be wrong or unholy or hurt you spiritually if God sanctioned it for Adam & Eve? Does God give commandments that are spiritually unholy to us?

You make a good argument to become an atheist.

son of a prophet said...

waht you learn in a "church" is theology, which hardly ANYONE understands that they could also learn in a college univetstiy.

HOWVER, THEOLOGY HAS NOTHING WHATSOVER TO DO WITH THE HS.

KEEP GOING TO CHURCH, THE CHURCH OF "ROME" HAS YOU JUST WHERE THEY WANT YOU.

AS FAR AS TEACHING THE BELIEVERS, I CANNOT TEACH, BUT ONLY LEAD, AND I AM DOING THIS RIGHT NOW, BUT THE HS HAS NOT YET OOPEND YOUR EARS TO LISTEN TO ME.

AND I ALSO TEACH BY BEING OUT IN THE WORLD. YOU MISTAKE TEACHING AS ONLY SOMEHITNG TAHT "PASTORS" DO.

ALSO, AS FAR AS CHANGING THE EARTH MY FRIEDN,IT AINT HAPENING AND THAT NOT DEFEATIST, IT THE TRUTH.

ALL YOU CAN DO IS WITNESS TO HELP SAVE SOULS, AS THE EARTH ITSELF IS FORSAKEN, IT IS SATANS KINGDOM.

TELL ME, MY FRIEND, HOW YOU GONNA CHANGE THAT??

YESHUA HIMSELF SAID IT.

son of a prophet said...

mogel, you too are forgetting somethng so important that it leads you astray.

you keep talking aoub t the earth, BUT THE EARTH IS SATANS KINGDOM.

DO YOU AGREE?

IF NOT, THEN THERE REALLY IS NOTHING TO DEBATE,AS YOU BELIEVE THAT THE EARTH CAN BE SAVED, AS DOES THE ANTICHRIST AND FLASE PROPHTET POPE.

ROME HAS YOU TOO WHERE THEY WANT YOU.

mogel said...

SOP: "lying with a woman, defiels a man sp;irutally wheter marreid or unmarried."
__________________________________
If you truly believed that you would be a virgin all your life, and you would never get married, & you would never have the desire to be married, & you would school your thoughts to never be attracted to a woman EVER because "as a man thinketh so is he." And you would have to also say that sex is wrong or unholy FOR EVERYONE. Course never mind, that type of thinking would frustrate the plan of God when he said to "multiply & replenish the earth."

Or your whole religion and doctrinal belief is vain and hypocritical, not mention unpractical.
I doubt if you have what it takes to take things to that level though.

mogel said...

SOP said: "you keep talking aoub t the earth, BUT THE EARTH IS SATANS KINGDOM."
__________________________________
How kind of God to create a world for Satan to reign! LOL

The earth doesn't have to be a place of wickedness. The choice is ours.

"The meek shall inherit the earth". The earth will eventually become a Heaven for the pure in heart since the Earth will be changed & the wicked thrown out.

son of a prophet said...

mog,

i like you, so i will give a little more rope....

---O+--<

this will tell you (and me)abut yoself.

we both agree that the world is preety screwed up.



assuming that i had the power to do so, i appoint you (as the ac will be appointed) teh supreme ruler of the world.

now, tell me, in order to straighten the mess of the world out, how far would yo be willing to go to make poeple do and thngk like youself?

you can do anytihng you like with impunity, up to and including killing those that oppose you.

what/how would you make everything right (as the coming ac will say that he will do)

so, let me hear it......

son of a prophet said...

yes, the meek shall inheirt the earth WHEN YESHUA COMES BACK, BUT NOT BEFORE.

son of a prophet said...

The earth doesn't have to be a place of wickedness. The choice is ours.

WRONG.

AS THIS IS SATAN KINGDOM, HOW CAN IT NOT BE A PLACE OF WICKEDNESS??

AGAIN, YOU FORGET TO DISCOURSE BETWEEN SATAN AND YESHUA.

SATAN TOLD YESHUA THAT "ALL THESE KINGDOMS ARE YOURS IF YOU....."

YESHUA DID NOT QUESTION WHOS KINGDOMS THEY WERE (ARE) AS YESHUA KNEW WHOS KINGDOMS THEY WERE-SATANS KINGDOMS.

YESHUA COULD HAVE SAID, "BY WHO AUTHORITY DO YOU OFFER ME THESE KINGDOMS" OR ALTERNETIVELY HE COULD HAVE SAID.."YOU CANNOT OFFER ME THSESE KINGDOMS AS THEY ARE ALREADY MINE"

HOW COULD SATAN OFFER YEHSUA SOMEHTING THAT HE ALREADY HAD?

MAKE NO MISTAKE AOUBT IT MY FRIEND, THE EARTH IS SATANS KINGDOM.

IF YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THIS, YOU WILL HAVE A VERY BAD GO OF IT IN THIS LIFE.

son of a prophet said...

mog, you are starting to lose ground here,as you are going way off topic and never addressed the points that i have made.

i will not respond to your off topic rants.

mogel said...

SOP said: "HOW COULD SATAN OFFER YEHSUA SOMEHTING THAT HE ALREADY HAD?"
_________________________________
Satan offered Adam & Eve, the gift to be as the Gods, did he not? Is that Satan's right to give? Can Satan offer anything to us acceptable to God? Adam & Eve accepted Satan's offer & partook of the fruit of good and evil and the earth fell from it's paradisiacal state & death & suffering entered into the world. The nature of the whole earth changed, mankind & animals and everything else.

Satan said, "you shall surely not die, but be as the Gods, knowing good from evil." Did Eve argue with Satan? Did Adam argue with Satan? Did God or Jesus, either of them, stop Satan from tempting Adam & Eve & causing the fall? Is the Gods willful failure to stop this, an acceptance that the Gods made a huge mistake?

Is Christ not arguing with Satan, when Satan showed him the kingdoms of the world, an acceptance that Satan owns the earth & the earth is his kingdom?

Did Jesus always argue with his accusors or was he silent sometimes? Did Jesus not performing a miracle before Herod prove he was not a man of miracles? Did Jesus not throwing himself willing off the temple (Satan's suggestion) to prove that angels would come to his rescue, prove he had not power over the heavens and the earth?

Does a squatter own the home of the person he breaks into and enters? Does a squatter therefore have rights to claim the home as his own kingdom if he lives there and tears up the home?

How can bankers/lenders offer us something they don't have (money to lend) if they really don't have a creditors interest in the home by lending their own money which in practice would legitimize lenders putting a lien on the home as collateral? If this truly was the case, that the lender isn't the true creditor, wouldn't someone have figured this all out by now & wouldn't someone have already won in court and set a huge precedence that all people could use to eliminate their mortgages to stop the big bad lies once and for all?

Who said Satan was intelligent or even correct in his offer to Jesus with his perverted assumptions? Not me!

Enoch created a heaven on earth with all of his people & eliminated poverty in their society. How could Enoch do that if the earth is still Satan's kingdom?

The world is full of lies and deceit. If you're dealing with Satan, you can be easily confused without the H.G. We can agree on that.

son of a prophet said...

"Is Christ not arguing with Satan, when Satan showed him the kingdoms of the world, an acceptance that Satan owns the earth & the earth is his kingdom?"


THATS EXACTLY IT. SATAN OWNS THE KINGDOMS OF THE WORLD.

SO IF YOU UNDERSTAND THIS, HOW CAN YOU OR ANYONE EVER HOPE TO CHANGE THE WORLD. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.

i dont want to debate bankers and lenders; we agreee that are out to bankrupt everyone.

i have agreed that DG when finished will have helped those that werent too late to help.

but this world can never be made right until you know when, whdihc by the looks of thins, wont be very much longer.

son of a prophet said...

Who said Satan was intelligent or even correct in his offer to Jesus with his perverted assumptions? Not me!


the bible itself says that satan is the most subtle (intelligent) of all creatures.

you cant be subtle without being intellignet, now can you?

as far as being correct, yeshua stated as much by his non challengign response. he did not questin satans authirity to offer yeshua the kingdoms, but instead, responded how?

he responded by saying "...it is written that thou shalt not tempt the LORD thy god..."

satan offered yeshua a valid temptation, otherwise it would not be a temptation, now would it?

son of a prophet said...

and just to play "devils advocate" with the DG too,

remember, that for some who are in the DG without being with the HS, the DG victory will become a curse for them.

they will soon have lots of $$$ and this will be their end. they will curse the day that the DG ever got them they mtgs elimated.

how many ppl have hit the lotto for 00's of millons and then what happen? lose family, wife, kids, reltives all FIGHTING for the $$$$

yes, fo some, beleive it or not, the DG will be a curse.


rember also, that for those with the HS, CURSES BECOME BLESSINGS snd for those w/o the HS, BLESSINGS $$$$ BECOME CURSES.

neodemes said...

"yes, fo some, beleive it or not, the DG will be a curse."

:o

Ya think?

LOL

~~The Swami~~~ said...

Neo I ordered you a subscription to "Pharisees Monthly" for a Christmas present. Have you received it yet?

mogel said...

SOP said: "satan offered yeshua a valid temptation, otherwise it would not be a temptation, now would it?"
___________________________________
Was Christ tempted? Not so sure I like the translation of that word. Can any sin be a temptation without having a guilty heart? If you consider evil as an alternative, then, aren't you evil by definition? Wasn't Jesus pure & above such things & wasn't he perfect? I say no contest whatsoever between Satan & Christ. Satan's efforts was a complete waste of time. Satan tested Jesus because that's his nature to do so, not because his power had any validity against Jesus. Jesus never considered evil as a viable option, otherwise, he also needs a Saviour.

Now, you say Satan has power? Satan has no power that man does not give to him.

You are saved no faster than you can overcome the Devil and his fiery darts.

mogel said...

SOP said: "THATS EXACTLY IT. SATAN OWNS THE KINGDOMS OF THE WORLD."
___________________________________
So you're saying that since Christ created the earth & everything in it, he quit claimed his "MSO" (manufactures statement of origion) over to the Devil?

mogel said...

SOP said: "the bible itself says that satan is the most subtle (intelligent) of all creatures."
__________________________________
Being subtle will just get you slapped!!! That's not being intelligent through using trickery and deceit!! Intelligence refers to light and truth, and Satan has none of that anymore ever since he became a fallen angel. He represents all things that are contradictory or contrary to intelligent beings designs and purposes.

He may be clever, but he isn't intelligent at all. How intelligent is it to be a loser and to be cast out into outer darkness in the end?

mogel said...

SOP: If the Holy Spirit is the only teacher, does the Holy Ghost say, ooops, she's a woman, I won't inspire her too much because of her sex, otherwise, she might be accused of being a theologian? Does this mean that women are inferior to men in intelligence in your mind?

whatdoyoumean said...

S.O.P.

I didn't say that you must be in a building to be in church. Yes, the people are the church, but God puts people together in specific churches in order to accomplish His purposes. The Holy Spirit reveals things to me as my pastor speaks the Word of God. And I know I attend the right church for me, because every week the pastor is preaching directly to me. God answers questions I ask, and issues I struggle with, by inspiring my pastor to preach on that topic. The pastor has no idea what he is talking about.

An example is my testimony of whether or not I should participate in D.G. When I was praying and seeking the Lord... I am asking for confirmation of what I felt, and my pastor preaches the whole sermon on "occupying until He comes" and taking the land, and so many direct confirmations it is impossible for me to deny.

A body needs every part, and I know the world belongs to satan right now. Interestingly the book of Revalation mimics a hebrew eviction proceeding... the breaking of the seals and the title deed to the earth... also Revelation is the same as Joshua.. Yeshua is conquering the land and claiming what God promised, both send two witnesses, and the witnesses get people saved. Very intersting.... Anyway you and I are called to be faithful witnesses and preach the good news. You are supposed to be in a body of believers so that you can pray for one another, and benefit one another with the variety of spiritual and natural gifts. The pastor is gifted to teach, inspired by the Holy Spirit, and He (the Spirit) reveals things to me as it is preached by a man whose heart is right before God.

We are supposed to kick the devil's tail until we are pulled out of here. The a.c. can't even show up until the containers of the Holy Spirit are removed. Men have been indoctrinated to live within this system and it takes years of hearing the Word to reprogram them. I didn't get saved until I was 27 and the Holy Spirit didn't just start speaking to me when I was driving to work. I go to a church and the pastor speaks about exactly what I ask the Holy Spirit while I am driving to work. The pastor is the instrument that the Spirit uses. And to top it off I have witnessed many people prophesy without being in the billet of "Prophet". And some of them women, and the prophesies have come to pass. God uses willing vessels, male or female. Mostly He desires to use men, but there are more willing women than men.

son of a prophet said...

"Does this mean that women are inferior to men in intelligence in your mind?"


"intelligence" is antorher "man-made" defintion.


defined intellgince?


i will use a an example or two?

if someone carjacked you and drop you off in the middle of the bronx, ny at 3 AM and you need to survive the next few days, and you had $1 million in you bank account from you DG money and you could pay anyone to hang out with and help you survive the next 24 hours; who you gaonna choose to hlep you sruvive?

1) an harvard grad with IQ of 180

2) the local gang leader with IQ of 60 but tough as nails?

or even better example, you facing 20 in the "pen", and again, you could choose you cellmace fo the next 20 and you can use you $1million form you DG money


who you gonna pick to help you sruvive the next 20?

you goanna pay a


1) a banker with a iq of 140 to protect you


or


2) the toughest prison thug you can find?


so, now what is intelligence??


is it iq or an abibilty to survive??

son of a prophet said...

"Does this mean that women are inferior to men in intelligence in your mind?"


"intelligence" is antorher "man-made" defintion.


defined intellgince?


i will use a an example or two?

if someone carjacked you and drop you off in the middle of the bronx, ny at 3 AM and you need to survive the next few days, and you had $1 million in you bank account from you DG money and you could pay anyone to hang out with and help you survive the next 24 hours; who you gaonna choose to hlep you sruvive?

1) an harvard grad with IQ of 180

2) the local gang leader with IQ of 60 but tough as nails?

or even better example, you facing 20 in the "pen", and again, you could choose you cellmace fo the next 20 and you can use you $1million form you DG money


who you gonna pick to help you sruvive the next 20?

you goanna pay a


1) a banker with a iq of 140 to protect you


or


2) the toughest prison thug you can find?


so, now what is intelligence??


is it iq or an abibilty to survive??

son of a prophet said...

how does on become a "pastor"??


does one apply for it?


who certifies that one is a pastor?


the theology shcool??


the state?



the state give you a certificate say that you are now a "pastor"?


or is it when you get you 501-c documents back from the state???



yep. yeshua would of filled out 501-c documents for his church fo shure.

son of a prophet said...

"Yes, the people are the church, but God puts people together in specific churches in order to accomplish His purposes"



you sure its god putting ppl in "churches"

i think its satan doing it.


the only church god puts ppl in is His invisible church of true believers.

satan puts ppl in church builidings. not god. they go to the builidng thingking that they are worsihoping god, when they really worsihipping the devil.

whatdoyoumean said...

S.O.P.

Does our Christ save perfect people or sinners? Do you have to maintain absolute perfection once saved, or is it a continual process?

Who cares. God looks at men's hearts, not their credentials. Whether they went to a seminary or not, if their heart is right then God will use them. You must be hung up on something someone did to you. Cause you require perfection, your standard is higher than our makers. He works within our weaknesses. You say the devil already won because he's put a little leaven in the churches. Guess what, you eat contaminated food everyday. It kills you slowly, but in the meantime you keep going about your business... The church is the same...

son of a prophet said...

"Does our Christ save perfect people or sinners? Do you have to maintain absolute perfection once saved, or is it a continual process?"



THAT IS EXACTLY MY POINT!

CHRIST SAVES SINNERS.

THE HEALTHY DO NOT NEED A DOCTOR,BUT THE SICK.

AS WE ARE ALL SICK,(SINNERS) THERE ARE NO PERFECT ONES, THUS THERE ARE NO "PASTORS", BUT WE ARE ALL PASTORS IN A SENSE, TAHT WE ARE ALL EQUIPPED TO WITNESS; THERE IS NO ONE WITH THE HS THAT IS NOT EQUIPPED TO WITNESS.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT MOST PPL HAVE BEEN INDEED FOOLED BY SATAN INTO THINKING THAT THERE IS A SPECIAL GROUP OF PPL CALLED "PASTORS" WHO ARE THE ONLY ONES EQUIPPED TO TEACH.

THIS DOCTRINE COMES FROM SATAN; AND IS THE SAME DOCTIRNE FROM ROME WHICH SAYS THAT (CATHOLICISM) ONLY "PRIESTS" CAN TEACH AND INTERPRET THE BIBLE.

THIS IS WHY THE BIBLE SAYS THAT ROME WILL INVADE ALL THE CHURCHES.

THAT TIME HAS ALREADY COME, BUT MOST ARE TOO FAR AWAY FROM GOD TO KNOW IT, SO GOD DOESNT TELL THEM, BUT WILL LET THEM FIND OUT ON THEIR OWN IN HIS GOOD TIME.


THERE ARE NO BIBLICAL CHURCHES IN EXISTENCE TODAY AND NO "PASTORS" (NICOLAITANS-THOSE WHOM GOD HATES)

son of a prophet said...

ASK YOU PASTOR WHAT MAKES HIM DIFFRENT FROM YOU "EVERDAY" CHRISTIAN???

SEE WHAT HE SAYS??


WHATEVER HE TELLS YOU IS FALSE.


IF HE SAYS THAT HE HAD A CALLING?


THEN ASK HIM A CALLING TO DO WHAT?

TEACH?


BUT ONLY THE HS CAN TEACH.

DOES HE SIN LESS THAN EVERYONE ELSE?


NOT.

AND IF HE SAYS THAT HE IS NO DIFFEERNT, THAN WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF BEING A PASTOR???

I WILL TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.

AND IT ALSO RELATES TO 501-c


IT IS AN "OCCUPATION", JUST LIKE A PLUMBER, CRAPENTER, BANKER, MTG. LENDER ETC.

TELL HIM TO GO GET A REAL JOB AND TEACH THOSE AROUND HIM IF HE FEELS TAHT HE NEED TO TEACH.

NOT TO EXTORT MONEY FROM THOSE THAT THE THINKS HE IS TEACHING.

Scott from Vineland said...

I think SOP just likes to sleep in on Sunday morning. ;o)

son of a prophet said...

AND READING THIS, YOU MAY THNGK THAT I HAVE SOEMTHING AGAINST "PASOTRS"

I DONT.

BUT YOU HAVE TO BE BLUNT IF YOU WANT TO GET THE POINT ACROSS.

THERE IS ONLY ONE TEACHING "PASTOR"


THE HOLY SPIRIT.

AND HE DOESNT NEED AN INTEREMEDIARY TO TEACH.

HE CAN TEAACH FINE ON HIS OWN.

son of a prophet said...

ITS THESE SAME "PASTORS" THAT YESHUA TALKED ABOUT WEHN HE SAID..


"...THERE WILL COME A DAY WHEN THEY WILL PUT YOU OUT OF THE SYNAGOGUE AND KILL YOU..."


THESE SAME PASTORS WILL DO THE SAME AS THEY ARE ALL AGENTS OF ROME AND AS SOME INDIVIDUALS COME OUT OF THE CORPORATE CHURCH, AND TELL OTHERS THE TRUTH OF THE HS, THESE SAME "PASTORS" WILL SEEK TO KILL THEM JUST AS YESHUA SAID.

Scott from Vineland said...

Not all pastors answer to the Roman church. And they're not all wearing Rolexes and driving Mercedes Benzes. I certainly understand where you're coming from about all of our learning and knowledge coming from the HS but this doesn't make all pastors deceivers or tools of Satan, IMHO. I beleive many pastors/preachers are sincere men of God who DO feel led by the Spirit to minister to others, for reasons other than $$$.

Scott from Vineland said...

And I don't NEED an intermediary. I can always seek direction and wisdom from God through his HS directly. Don't need me no priest for that. But even though I don't have to rely on the human wisdom of another man (or woman, yikes) to learn God's will for my life, I DO happen to enjoy being able to worship and praise Him with other believers. Why is this wrong, SOP?

son of a prophet said...

"Not all pastors answer to the Roman church. And...."


BUT THEY DO. AGIAN, SOMETHING YOU EITHER UNDERSTADN OR YOU DONT.

ROME HAS THEY AGENTS COVERTLY PLACED IN EVERY CHRUCH.

YOU DONT THEINK THESE PPL GONNA COME UP TO YU AND SAY, "...YES, I REPORT DIRECTLY TO THE "HOLY FATHER" LOLOLOLOLOLO!!!!

son of a prophet said...

"I DO happen to enjoy being able to worship and praise Him with other believers"


IF YOU LIVE IN THE USA, YOU DO THIS EVERY DAY WHEN YOU GO INTO THE CONVENCINE STORE, THE SUPERMAREKT, THE WAREHOUSE, YOU JOB ETC.

YOU DONT NEED A SPECKAIL PALCE AND "SPECIAL TIME" TO WORSHIP YESHUA AND FELLOWSHIP WITH OTHER BELIVERS.

IF YOU LIVE IN CHINA OR MAYBE MIDDEL EAST, THEN WHAT YOU SAY IS TRUE.

YOU REALLY WANNA WITNESS, OR TEACH???

I TELL THIS TO EVERY PASOR I MEET.

WHY DON YOU GO INTO A SYNAGOGUE AND PREACH/TEACH??

WHY???

BEACUSE THEY WILL ASK YOU TO LEAEVE, THATS WHY.

THEN GO BACK.

THEN THEY WILL AGAIN ASK YO TO LEAVE.

THREN GO BACK AGIAN.

NOW THEY WILL HAVE YO ARRESTED FOR TERPASSTING.

YES, BUT THAT WHAT YESHUA WOULD HAVE (DID) DONE.

GET YOSELF THRINW IN JAIL FOR WITNESSING TO NON BELEIVEERS.

PPL WANT IT EASY TO WITNESS TO PPL WHO ALREADY BELEIVERS, SO THIEY THINK BY TAKE IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL, BY TEACHNG THELOGY TO BELBIERS.

"SEE, I AM A BETTER CHRISTIAN THAN YOU (SO THEY THINK) BECASUE I KNOW MORE THEOLOGEY THAN YOU"

SECRETLY, THIS IS WHAT ALL PASOTRS THINK, BELIEVE ME, BUT THEY WILL SAY DIFFENTELY.

WHEN YESHUA COME BACK, THEY WILL BE AT THE END OF THE LINE, BELIEVE ME!

THE LAST SHALL BE FIRST, AND THE FIRST SHALL BE LAST.

THEY THNKG THEY KNOW THOLGY THEY WILL BE FIRST!


THIS DESRVE A LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO!!!!!

son of a prophet said...

"...so, now what is intelligence??


is it iq or an abibilty to survive??"


oops, forgot to answer this ?


INTELLEIGNENCE IS HAVING THE HS TO GUIDE YOU.

son of a prophet said...

by the way, anyone read the latest from the articbeacon.com?

son of a prophet said...

so, now what is intelligence??


is it iq or an abibilty to survive??

waht good is being a "dead genuis"?

einshtein was a genus, what good it is? he not here today.....

he daid.

as they say, "he deader than colmubus....

~~The Swami~~~ said...

SOP, I'm about to the point to ask TCOB to please post something so I'll have something different to read.

son of a prophet said...

i now want to reopsond to a previous post that I didnt have time to get to before.

regarding women of today and their roles.

a womesns role is the same as it was in the old testament was written, ie., TO HAVE BABIES AND MAKE A HOUSE.

TODAYS WOMAN HAS BEEN BRRAINWASHED INTO THINKING THAT THIS JOB IS "SLAVERY" COURTESY OF NOW AND ALL THE OTHER SATINIC GRUOPS.

NO, WOMEN WILL SAY THAT THEY HAVE MADE PROGRESS ALLWOING THEM TO WORK, VOTE, ETC.

I WOULD SAY THAT "YES, SATAN HAS MADE MUCH PROGRESS IN THAT AREA."

PRODUCING WOMEN WHO WANT TO BE LIKE MEN AND EMASCULATING MEN IN THE PROCESS.

AND YET, VIRTUALLY NO ONE USNERSTANDS THIS TODAY, ESPECIALLY THE MEN WHO AGREE WITH WOMEN AND THUS BECOME ACCOMPLICES.

YES, SATAN HAS MADE MUCH,MUCH PROGRESS IN THIS AREA.

BY USING GULLIBLE WOMEN, HE HAS MANAGED TO BE THE CAUSE OF THE DESTURCTION OF THE FAMILY UNIT.

AND YOU WANNA TELL ME TAHT STANAS IS NOT THE MOST SUBTLE, AND INTELLGIENT OF ALL CREATURES???

JUST ADD THIS TO ONE MORE REASON THAT THE WORLD IS ALL F***ED UP.

AND YOU AINT GOT NO CHANCE OF STRAIGHENING IT ALL OUT.

NOT A CHANCE IN HELL TILL YESHUA COME BACK IN GLORY.

son of a prophet said...

"...AND YOU WANNA TELL ME TAHT STANAS IS NOT THE MOST SUBTLE..."


who is stanas?

yes. i need a rest now as dyslexia is starting to set in.....

mogel said...

SOP said: "INTELLEIGNENCE IS HAVING THE HS TO GUIDE YOU."
__________________________________
I pray that the H.G. will guide you in your spelling.

Scott from Vineland said...

son of a prophet said:
PPL WANT IT EASY TO WITNESS TO PPL WHO ALREADY BELEIVERS, SO THIEY THINK BY TAKE IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL, BY TEACHNG THELOGY TO BELBIERS.

"SEE, I AM A BETTER CHRISTIAN THAN YOU (SO THEY THINK) BECASUE I KNOW MORE THEOLOGEY THAN YOU"

SECRETLY, THIS IS WHAT ALL PASOTRS THINK, BELIEVE ME, BUT THEY WILL SAY DIFFENTELY.
_________________________________

SOP, you make a lot of broad assumptions about people you have never met and know nothing about.
__________________________________
son of a prophet said:
ROME HAS THEY AGENTS COVERTLY PLACED IN EVERY CHRUCH.

YOU DONT THEINK THESE PPL GONNA COME UP TO YU AND SAY, "...YES, I REPORT DIRECTLY TO THE "HOLY FATHER" LOLOLOLOLOLO!!!!
_________________________________
EVERY church? Sorry dude, I will never believe this. I think you done been readin' that Greg Szymanski feller too long!

son of a prophet said...

do some reserch my friend.

where you think you chuch came from?? its origins???

go do some research before you speak.

they all came from rome my friend.

you in a "protest"ant church?

it came from rome my friend.

martha luther protested, what was he? he was a roman catlick, no?

waht was kling james before he became a protester? decided to "authorise" the bible tranlation?

not fo nuttin, but who the (^$**&^ was he to "authorixe" teh translation of the bible???

he was a person like anyone else. right?

he was from the roman catholics, no?

satan always give you the "dialectic", make you think that you always have at least 2 choices, just like dems and repubs.

when you alweys have a third chice-YESHUA

satan fixes both sieds so no matter what you choose, yo lose.

ever been on the steets of ny, play the shell game on the sidewalk?

same deal here. no matter which one you choose, the pea aint there under it.

its not in any of the shells.

son of a prophet said...

this is why rome will and has infiltrated ALL churches.

reason is that they are all false and unbiblical churhes, so if that going to be the case, the BIGGEST FALSE AND UNBIBLICAL CHURCH MIGHT AS WELL CONQUER IT and bring it under its control.

see, if it wre a real church today, rome would not be able to do this, but there are no real churchs todya.

son of a prophet said...

cmon scoot, you not dealin with a lightweight here.

you now in with the BIG BOYS.

I DONT WANNA HAVE TO CARRY YOU.

YOU GOTTA GET WITH THE PROGRAM FAST. TIME IS RUNNIGN OUT.

mogel said...

SOP said: "go do some research before you speak.

they all came from rome my friend.

you in a "protest"ant church?

it came from rome my friend."
___________________________________
Maybe you should take your own advise & do some research.
Not all churches are Protestant or Catholic.

I agree if the tree is rotten, that all branches of the tree or breakoffs (new churches) through reformation of the original church become rotten though & become a man made church.

Have you done research on the origins of the Mormon Church? The origins are built upon revelation. God used a modern day prophet to bring back the church on the earth in a direct way.

As a matter of fact, most people reject the origions how the church came about because most people reject angelic ministrations, appearances of God & Jesus to man, & other supernatural miracles, such as translation of ancient records, etc. because it's easier to say that Joseph Smith was a false prophet & that he made all of his claims up. Since you are so adamant about looking at the origins of how a church started, how can you be so ignorant about Joseph Smith's claims? Mormons aren't considered Protestant, NOT AT ALL. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is considered a "restored church" not a "reformed church" through God's direction himself & it's not a breakoff of the original church (Catholic Church). It's in a separate category.

All churches didn't come from Rome. Take your own advise & study more.

son of a prophet said...

mog,

use the same yardstick that i made in a previous post.

PROPHETS OF GOD ARE N-E-V-E-R WRONG!

WAS JOSEPH SMITH EVER WRONG IN ANY ONE OF HIS PROPECIES???

I WILL LET YOU ANSER THAT ONE.

JOE SMITH WAS A FALSE PROPHTE.

I DONT DISCOUNT ANGELIC VISTIATINS, DREAMS, ETC, BUT WHEN YOU TRY TO MAKE A CULT FOLLWOING OUT OF IT, THATS WHERE THEY GO WRONG.

IF GOD GAVE ME A VISION, HE WOULD NOT MAKE ME CREATE A WHOLE CHURHC (IE., CULT) OUT OF IT AND THEN WIND UP CHARGING PPL FOR COMING TO MY CHURCH.

MOG, IF YO WANT TO STAY IN YOU FALSE CHURCH, THAT YOU BUSINESS.

BUT, KNOW THAT ALL CHURCHS ARE FALSE CHURCHS.

son of a prophet said...

AND AS YOU SEEM LIKE A GOOD PERSON, I AM POSITIVE THAT THE HS WILL REVEAL THIS TO YOU IN TIEM.

son of a prophet said...

who say...

"i dont care how you bring 'em, just bringem young"??

guess he like them young virgrins....

son of a prophet said...

hall of fame 49'ers qb steve young was a good momon boy, and great-great-great grandson of brigham young.

oops, i meant bringem young...

son of a prophet said...

why were the monmons throw out of every state they were in??


becasue they like the young 'uns too much.

girls at 13-14

that why they throw out joe smtih from waht was it, new york?

only place to go was utah.


dindt they just prosecute some momon guy for foricng some 14 yo girl to get married or seomthign like that?

son of a prophet said...

even tho technicaly in the OT girsl did get married at 13-14.

if you old enuf to reproduce, you old enuf to get marreid.

its actually the devil that made it look bad, wanting to "look out for the young girls"

no, the devil just wanted more time to indoctirnate teh young girsl so that they would rebel against god and want to be like men. so he made the law extending the minimum age of marreiage.

satan figured once they were marreid, he lost them to the husband.

so, even tho i agree tht js was a false propeht, he had the right idea of letting young girsl get married and serve their husband (god) before they could be corrupted into servign the devil.

course in those days, all the girl had to do was make babies and keep a house, which a 14 yo then was probably more than capable of as they did not have to work, or go to college or paly video games or.....etc.

mogel said...

SOP said: "WAS JOSEPH SMITH EVER WRONG IN ANY ONE OF HIS PROPECIES???"
________________________________

No, you brought it up. You answer it.

son of a prophet said...

yes, i brught it up?

so, tell me, how many?


how many was he wrdong about?

of how many, i am not sure.

son of a prophet said...

mog, i am going to take a break for til t'morow.

getting tired and when tiered ppl tend to get sarcatic, adn i dont want to do that cause i think you ok and cant blame you for how yo think.


as i said, we are all only working with what we are working with. ie., we all work with the knowlege that the HS gives us at a particlular time and that is good for us to know. both you and I.

HS only gives us a littel at a time.

mogel said...

SOP said: "dindt they just prosecute some momon guy for foricng some 14 yo girl to get married or seomthign like that?"
_________________________________
Again, you didn't do your research!

He was a "fundamentalist", not LDS. He was a leader of a breakoff of the original Church started by the prophet, Joseph Smith, a very small group, and it's a good thing they prosecuted that guy because the State of Utah wants to prosecute those that force marriage upon people at a very young age that commit incest or rape or leaders that force young girls to marry against their will. Interestingly enough no one in Utah has ever been prosecuted & convicted & gone to jail for practicing polygamy, even though the original Church did away with that in about 1901. The State isn't interested in solving that issue. They turn a blind eye.

Force & rape & incest, have nothing to do with righteous doctrinal teachings.

And no, the early Mormon church weren't thrown out of every State because young girls were forced to marry at an early age. Do you believe everything you hear or read in an inflammatory article by someone that has an axe to grind, or did you just make that up?

I have to admit, I've never heard that argument before why the Mormons were driven out of their earlier places of residency.

It was in Missouri & Illinois where the Mormons had their most problems & the most hate and conflict by their neighbors where they were forced to leave. Not New York & Ohio, so you haven't done your research thoroughly yet.

And ironically in Illinois where they were threatened, are now welcomed by their neighbors because of the economic boom that the Mormon temples & tourism bring to the community in Western Illinois near Carthage & Nauvoo.

And by the way, the State of Illinois that issued an extermination order to kill all Mormons, issued by Governor Boggs at the time, over a century ago, the incumbent government officially apologized about a decade or so ago for the State's past wrongful actions. How often do you see the government actually & officially apologize & have a news conference to do so and the papers have a hay day writing about it?

Wouldn't it be nice if that happened with the Dorean Group soon?

Maybe 100 years from now, you'll see an official apology by the government towards the Dorean Group.

mogel said...

SOP said: "IF GOD GAVE ME A VISION, HE WOULD NOT MAKE ME CREATE A WHOLE CHURHC (IE., CULT) OUT OF IT AND THEN WIND UP CHARGING PPL FOR COMING TO MY CHURCH."
_________________________________

Of course God would create a new church ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU ADMIT THERE WAS AN APOSTACY OR A FALLING AWAY OF THE ORIGINAL DOCTRINES OF THE CHURCH CHRIST ORIGINALLY SET UP while he was on earth. With the killing of the apostles, the authority and knowlege was lost, so it had to be restored or brought back. The early reformers, Calvin & the like recognized there was no authority, and that Christ's teaching had become perverted & changed. the scriptures in the Old Testament & the New Testament prophesied this would happen anyway. So if the Church & it's teachings were taken away since the Bible said they would, it necessitated that things be restored, A RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS, AS THE SCRIPTURES SAY.

If you want to call it a cult, go ahead. People call the Dorean Group, a cult too. It doesn't make it so by giving an organization a derogatory label. People that call someone a cult are generally ignorant like yourself of the things they criticize.

The Mormon Church doesn't charge people financially to attend. You can attend any Mormon Church in any State & no one is waiting at the door to make you pay before you enter to attend or worship at the services. Why must you pervert the truth like you do??? They believe in the doctrine of tithing, but there is no obligation to practice this doctrine that was practiced anciently in the Old Testatment. (Malachi 3: 8-12). Course, the Mormon church isn't unique in that regard either.

mogel said...

SOP said: "how many was he wrdong about?

of how many, i am not sure."
_________________________________
YOU'RE NOT SURE? MAYBE I SHOULD SAY, I REST MY CASE THEN?

I don't know of any prophecies Joseph Smith was wrong on!!!

First you would have to determine if what he said was a true prophesy in the first place & not just something Joseph Smith said "off the cuff", or giving his own opinion about some subject.

If you don't think prophets have opinions, just look at Paul when he "said it's better to be single like himself to serve God." But what most people fail to recognize is that Paul was probably married or divorced at one time. He wasn't AGAINST MARRIAGE, NOR WAS HE MAKING IT A PRINCIPLE OF TRUTH OR PROPHECY that all men should be single & that's what God wants. Paul might be the greatest missionary that ever lived, but he probably wasn't much in the husband department.

Second you would have to prove Joseph Smith meant whatever he said AS A prophesy like, "Thus saith the Lord" and was in fact wrong.

Since you brought up the accusations, it's your obligation to PROVE IT or let the accusations go with an apology, or just say, it's your opinion, based upon your own lack of research & your own ignorance.

mogel said...

SOP: "AND AS YOU SEEM LIKE A GOOD PERSON, I AM POSITIVE THAT THE HS WILL REVEAL THIS TO YOU IN TIEM."
________________________________

You know it's funny that you say that because many people use the same standard to say that the Holy Ghost has revealed to them that a specific church IS THE TRUE CHURCH. What do you say to people like that?

Do you say, "Oh you weren't listening to the Holy Ghost, but the Devil revealed a false witness to you?" How is that suppose to make sincere people like that feel? Should you regard them to be "emotionally retarded" unable to listen to the promptings of the Spirit?

Do you see the problem with always using the Holy Ghost as a standard? It doesn't always work to make someone see eye to eye with you. People have feelings all the time that mislead them. People will say it's the Holy Ghost speaking, others will say it's just heart-burn or an upset stomach, or an evil witness.

neodemes said...

"Maybe 100 years from now, you'll see an official apology by the government towards the Dorean Group."

What a coincidence. That'll be about the same time your boys are getting out of the can.

habakkuk said...

"What a coincidence. That'll be about the same time your boys are getting out of the can. "

Hey neo, how many times are you gonna recycle that stupid joke??? Huh????

neodemes said...

So, how is it that Joe got the "lost Book of Abraham" from Egyptian funerary papyri?

neodemes said...

"Hey neo, how many times are you gonna recycle that stupid joke??? Huh????"

Oh, its got some mileage left on it, hab.

:-)

mogel said...

Nemo said: "What a coincidence. That'll be about the same time your boys are getting out of the can."
_______________________________

Talk about jumping the gun. You've got them tried, convicted, and sentenced already, and the trial is still 3 months away if it even happens on time as scheduled. Maybe with an open mind like that, you could be on the jury?

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't forget the State of Utah made charges too and also threatened them with jail time too. Nothing became of that! Course, you'll say that the Federal Court wants to put them away for life, so that's why the Federal Court got involved & took over jurisdiction so more crminal counts can be charged and proven against them to threaten them with a life term. Is that why they offered them 20-25 years? Why even bother to negotiate at all? Obviously the prosecution thought maybe that offer might be taken! Course that was never a serious offer that would ever be considered mutually anyway, now was it?

Kurt has always said he has the best poker hand at the table. It appears the prosecution team still isn't listening & still doesn't believe that.

neodemes said...

"It appears the prosecution team still isn't listening & still doesn't believe that."

Who woulda thunk it?

mogel said...

SOP: Almost all of Brigham Young's wives were in their 20's and 30's. A couple of them were in their 40's. Course alot of people in those days died in their 50's, so they got married at a much earlier age. A man was considered a menace to society & a drain on society if he wasn't married by the time he was 18.

http://www.cc.utah.edu/~jay/Brigham_Young/Brigham_Young.html

Again, you just prove you hear something & you accept it as facts. That's real open minded of you, SOP.

Who said, "bring em young", short for "Brigham Young", maybe some smart ass that was trying to be cute and witty, but not really historically accurate.

mogel said...

http://www.cc.utah.edu/~jay/
Brigham_Young/Brigham_Young.html

mogel said...

So, how is it that Joe got the "lost Book of Abraham" from Egyptian funerary papyri?
________________________________
I think the papyrus may have also included the "Book of Moses" which includes the writings & visions of Moses too that talks about the spiritual creation & the physical creation & other subjects too along with the Book of Abraham.

These were the translations of some ancient records, that had fallen into Joseph's hands originally from the catacombs of Egypt. The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by Abraham's own hand, upon paprus. See History of the Church vol. 2 pp. 235, 236, 348-351.

Joseph also had the Urim & Thumum, an acient spiritual breastplate device, the same type of device which possession of it constituted a person to be a seer in Old Testament times, which gave the person in authority spiritual powers. This special gift enabled Joseph Smith to translate these records. Remember, Joseph Smith had a 3rd grade education & couldn't have done what he did without divine help.

Anciently an item like the "Urim & Thumim" were kept in "the arc of the covenant", another spiritual artifact that has special authority and power. This device (the Urim & Thumim) was found with the ancient golden plates that were buried near the Hill Cumorah in New York where the angel Moroni in a vision, instructed Joseph of it's exact location & where these items were buried. The golden plates after they were translated, which later became the Book of Mormon, were then entrusted back to the angel, but not until after 16 other honorable men besides Joseph, were able to see the golden plates and seriously inspect them & bear record of their authenticity too coming from God's hand & not man's hand. Three of the witnesses heard a voice from heaven and saw an angel come down from heaven which commanded them to bear testimony of their truthfulness too. Some of the special witnesses even left the church, & became bitter, due to their own human weaknesses, but NONE EVER denied their testimony of this event. They were afraid to, lest they would offend God himself & come under severe condemnation. Besides they knew what they knew.

mogel said...

Walker v United States (12/28/6)
Date: Thursday 28 December 2006 09:25 pm
From: "Klaus Becker, WTPN"

Reference our email of 12/19/06, same subject as above. One of our
network correspondents asked the question via email of Mr Bill
Walker, the plaintiff in the subject case, to wit: "Why is this site shutting down?" The response to that question is below.
Suggest you read it carefully and give it some serious thought. We
(this society, this "country", etc) have a problem.

Klaus Becker, Speaker
We the People of Nebraska

"The more a Truth is told, the more it is believed."
" In God we trust . . . . with man you must verify."
"An armed society is a polite society."
==========================================

==========================================
Date: 20 Dec 2006

An interesting question. The site is being shut down because its
information has now been discredited by the United States Supreme Court and I personally don't feel that it is correct to continue to post things on the web that are no longer true.

Some people, very few in number, have asked the site be kept up and
in deference to them I have thus far consented but will, at some
point, shut it down.

Walker v Members of Congress and its earlier companion case Walker v
United States were premised and filed on the fundamental assumption
that the government of the United States was subservient to the
Constitution, obliged to obey the terms, conditions and text of that
document, most especially in regards to the instructional text (i.e.) that elections should be held, that terms of office existed and could not be exceeded without election and so forth) and that the
government had no choice in regards to this matter. I want to be clear here: the main thrust of this lawsuit was not only to force
the calling of an article V convention (as required by the text in Article V) but to establish once and for all whether or not the government was corrupt and whether or not it could veto the direct text of the Constitution. I also was interested in discovering the
actual individual positions of the members of Congress and finally, given that such resistance to the Constitution is a direct violation.

In sum, I discovered that the government is totally corrupt that
every single members of Congress is in fact guilty of committing
federal criminal law violations, that the Constitution can be vetoed
by Congress under the political question doctrine and the direct
text of the Constitution ignored by the government if it so desires.
I will leave the portion of integrity and so forth to be concluded as obvious.

I also was determined that unlike many other such efforts, there
would be a factual, documented public record that could not be
refuted by anyone either as to fact or conclusion. Thus far no one
has refuted me or even attempted to do so and this has included
former justices of state courts, attorneys and several other such
personalities.

Nevertheless the attitude of the public in this regard has been
entirely one of fear and total ignorance with the usual scenario
being that somehow a convention composed of political types in this
country who can't even agree on anything are suddenly going to unite
in overwhelming numbers and overthrow the current Constitution
substituting some sort of new document. Of course when pressed as to what this new document would contain that could not as easily be put into the current document with an amendment or amendment in a
convention and who in the political world would lead such a
movement, the response goes strangely silent, is ignored by those who obviously would rather fear the unknown than solve the problem with their own sovereign power.

Thus, it has been made clear to me by the absolute lack of support
for obeying the Constitution by what I would term the common citizen that they no longer value the Constitution nor more importantly do they comprehend it or understand it. As the premise of the Constitution is based on an involved vigorous citizen who holds all sovereign power and that no longer exists (I will leave the reasons up to you as I'm sure many people can provide numerous ones) it is clear that the removal of the only legal method whereby the average citizen can affect as well as effect direct change in the government at the systematic level is really no loss as no one wants it anymore.

To accomplish this of course means giving the government complete
control of the document which is what the courts did and in such a
manner as to make it obvious that there was no hesitation nor
concern of public reaction in doing so. In short, they knew they
could get away with it because no one cares anymore whether or not
the Constitution exists as a viable, legal document.

Thus, the main premise of my lawsuit has been in fact refuted by the courts and as I indicated in the beginning of this rather long email, I don't believe in displaying or posting information which has been discredited.

No one should have a problem with this. No one wanted a convention
and now they can never have it. Even if the Court were to rule
tomorrow and say "hold a convention" the Congress could simply say
"no" because you, the court, have already conceded the Constitution
does not have to be obeyed by us so how can you possibly order us to
obey something based on an authority you've already stated we don't have to obey in the first place?

Remember the entire Constitution, every right, every privilege,
everything we have taken for granted in the Constitution is based on the word "shall" as in have to do it. Now the court said the word shall actually means "may or may not". The greatest level of
protection in the Constitution can be no higher than it least
protected right and the right of the people to alter or abolish
their form of government without government interference or consent
is now zero.

I hope I have answered your question. Thank you for your inquiry.

Bill Walker
==================

KYHOOYA said...

Mogal
that Paul was probably married or divorced at one time. He wasn't AGAINS

***************************
Hey mogal Now I'm not taking side in this debate between you and SOP but I just had to post my 2pennhy's worth to your comment about weather St. Paul was married or had been 'Divorced' Cus it kinda struck a funny being the well trained Catholic (Roman) that is and beleive me they know how to get a point across so that it stay's with you 'LOL'

Any way the funny thing was that the Roman Cath chuh said it was a sinn and that anyone that was to want to get divorcedwould be looked on as if it never happned and their EyE's and so be the Churches it would be as if yuou were still marries and that was up intill the 1970'''''or there about.

Now the funny part to me was, that it was that very topic that lead me to become more of realest in the tho around life and it's meaning and the higher power of men.

Being the hole thing with the chruch or churches in general was that how in the (pardon the punn) Hell can the church that has been telling you forever that something is the law of god and how the bible read's to be it's testement. then turn around and say that OH we must of been wrong it reads now that its o.k. to get 'Divorced' and the church will be fine with it.

I don't know if I mist some big event or something but by my take I would have to say that's a bit of the old crapey being thrown around and doing so more because the amount of people that wer not in the same mind at the time were not going to church and giving ofthem selfs aqnd pocket book be the resaone for the big change of scripures . It just left a bad taste about the church and as SOP was saying (well to the best of my OP tat is) that the church has gone the way of most these day's and is more for the all mighty dollar than trying to lead people to the promise land and such.

Then again anything that might bring more togetherness and peace amoung men rather than war has my blessing over the way thing's are looking these day's anymore.

We can see that it don't talke long before the powerr can cause most anyone to become corrupt and go the way of money and greed then power then money then lust Oh wait that last one scrach that cus were talking about the churhch right and so we can't be saying that they would be going the way of LUST right ?

Or can we??

Oh father Foley, please don't make me do that! Please Father stop! "I'd better be going now! "I don't think it would be a good idea for me to pull my pants down in front of you like you asked".
" Besides I never heard of that way to repent & pay for my sin's before. it used to be half a dosen of the 'Hail Marry's' & a 'Our Father' or two and I was good to go."

"Now your telling me that this new way of having to pay thought's of lust for my sinns is to do this with you ?" It just don't seem right Father Foley there must be another way!


No way that the church might have been had a little to much power for a long time and it's gone to there head or maybe their wallet next to old Father Foley's second head

any way I thought I'd chime in with that little out burts for the holiday seasone how you allare having your self a nice one. Hey who knows with the New Year coming maybe this is our year for something good to have happen and some good old house cleaning and I don't mean my home need's to be cleaned more so to the sen. house and commit. along with a few good old boy's for congress need to be changed out to.


If anyone want to have change they best start getting up off their asses and pay the price to have it happen because they way we have been doing isn't going to cut it and before you know it the burden of the whole damm thing will be just one more thing we lasy as s (*%^ have left to be done by our kids or worse it never can be do to our lacking and lazy way's

The point of the fact is that everyone is worked to have no time left to spare on the efforts to make it right and clean up but never the less that is what needs to happen

It's has been to long and way to much with this State dept. doing the way of the all mighty dollar saying what the public has'nt the time power or gut's anymore to say for them self's just nothing but paper backed green note fill them pockets up there on the hill

As with all thing's that start good and are lent to power and temptaion they always go to seed and greed if not checked

You all should see this by now it's as clear as a bell sounding for dinner. lisen up or you just might go hungery... : the The parchment that the Const. and the Bill of Right's with init were writen in a way that would have these problems met as long as the basic were kept and the one's enpowered to carry out the duties for it's main idea's as long as these men were watched so as they did'nt gain enough power to over run the law within it then all could be good but let to go unchecked and the country would see loss like never before you see theses guy's saw this shit in every other country at the time and spent some time to come up with some guides that were for the peirod were pretty dam good still today they hole true but if let to contiue the waty they are now if it hase'nt go to far already it will distroy this country without a second thought.

Everyone thinks in this country that we our safe and that the thrid worolds out there could never be us... Think again it could happen over night and with a depresion unlike the 1920-30 's to look like they were just a bad dinner without enough food and thought. we could get plunderd into a night mare or leave it for our kid's to have to deal with it


JUst for a momment I want you to picture your kid's if you have them if not someone young you care about. Now oicture it 40 50 years from now and along with that see that movie mad max or terminator look for the world and put them it that .

Bad is'nt it

Now eventhough you and I will be long dead thinkabout how they will looked at it when it shown that it was aour lacking and all of the don't have time " I can't get involved " or if I stuir things up they might make it tough on me" crap and how we never did a thing to stop what they are now living out of no other chose and the rest of the world whoi knows what kinda shhape there in but this one thing I do they won't give a shit about us just look how well we are liked right now just wait see what kinda liking we will have in another year when that nut case get's done with all the crap he has caused us

Then he an dad will have all the money to sleep on so the y wou'nt worry now will they? Some how the Rothchilds and the JP MOR. and the like all seen to make it through without to much worst for where must be there goo blood line that hold s them strong right ? ya that and a big fat wallet to get them out of harms way cus when your hungry you'll do just about anything to feed your family and all that money can buy a whole lot of doing for thems who have it..

Of course the Roman's our still linked to all this crap you don't think just because the chain of time and evolotoion climbed high that they stoped short and gave up on the power do you

It's a good cammandor that know how to fight and plan the attack but it's a better one that know's that along with when it's time to retreat and lay low till a better cahnce comes along or your enemy just walks right into the trap youahv set ..

Just my long as always o.p.

if there is not some shift from the opowers and the lacking of peoles willingness to fight and keep this country the way the people that wrote that there guide of sort's had intended to . then we are in for a lot of trouble and that is all there is to i

Do I have all the answers that sorround this and what to do or even a direction too go NO I don't but only one change direction from what has been done and try going back to what worked when it did might be a start

Back to basics enough with all the toy's and stuff it's time to pay for though before the cost is to much and we fall to the banks and all that interest

Remember that right now we as a country owe Three times what all the land uin this counrty is worth and that there is way more debt out in the country that there is money to pay for it a few times over but we can keep pating the intreest no proble.

son of a prophet said...

You know it's funny that you say that because many people use the same standard to say that the Holy Ghost has revealed to them that a specific church IS THE TRUE CHURCH. What do you say to people like that?

Do you say, "Oh you weren't listening to the Holy Ghost, but the Devil revealed a false witness to you?" How is that suppose to make sincere people like that feel? Should you regard them to be "emotionally retarded" unable to listen to the promptings of the Spirit?
-----------------------



mog,

as i have said, we all can only work with what the HS reveals to us, me and you both.

if one believes on yeshua, then this wisdom revealed will begin to merge as time goes on.

we know that there is only one TRUTH, and as time goees on, a littel at a time, evrything comes into agreement.

regarding j smith, you now want me to determine his false propecies by trying to determine wheterh or not he was joking when he said certain things? this is impossible to determine, dont you think?

maybe the apostles were joking when they wrote the gospel.

cmon, mog, you cant be serious now?

son of a prophet said...

lawyer takes on rove/cia case.

"suicided" on christmas eve

be careful who/what you take on.





Lawyer Ends Up Dead After Taking On Rove
Wednesday December 27th 2006, 10:26 pm

It’s fishy as hell.

Paul Sanford, a prominent Aptos, California, attorney, who accused Karl Rove of treason in the Plame outing case, took a leap from the Embassy Suites Hotel in Monterey Bay on Christmas Eve. Police describe it as “probable” suicide, even though it appears Sanford was not depressed.

“Friends and associates expressed disbelief at the news of Sanford’s death and that it was ruled a suicide, saying Sanford seemed happy and had made many plans for this week and in coming months. [Business associate and friend Shawn Mills] said he and Sanford recently decided to open a shared law office to serve Monterey and Santa Cruz counties, something Sanford was looking forward to doing,” reports the Monterey Herald. “Mills said he had spoken to Sanford’s wife, Paula, and that she also was in shock. He said Sanford, a father of two, was a devoted family man.” Sanford “would never have intentionally put his family through that trauma. Something’s not right, it doesn’t make sense.”

On July 25, 2005, in the James S. Brady Briefing Room at the White House, Sanford asked then press secretary Scott McClellan about Karl Rove, accused at the time by Joseph Wilson, the husband of Valerie Plame, of outing his wife as a CIA employee in retaliation for Wilson’s op-ed published in the New York Times. Wilson criticized the citation of bogus yellowcake documents used as flimsy justification for invading Iraq and murdering more than 650,000 Iraqis.

McClellan was flummoxed by Sanford’s question:

McClellan: Go ahead.

Sanford: Yes, thank you. There has been a lot of speculation concerning the meaning of the underlying statute and the grand jury investigation concerning Mr. Rove. The question is, have the legal counsel to the White House or White House staff reviewed the statute in sufficient specificity to determine whether a violation of that statute would, in effect, constitute treason?

McClellan: I think that in terms of decisions regarding the investigation, those are matters for those overseeing the investigation to decide.

Special counsel, Patrick Fitzgerald, decided not to charge Rove in the case, even though the former Donald Segretti dirty trickster understudy raised enough suspicion to warrant being called before a grand jury five times. Neocon Lewis “Scooter” Libby was charged with obstruction of justice, perjury, and making false statements to the FBI. A few weeks later, on July 13, 2006, Joseph and Valerie Wilson filed a civil suit against Cheney, Libby, Rove, and other unnamed senior White House officials, for their alleged roles in the public disclosure of her classified CIA employment.

In addition, Sanford was “a champion of the downtrodden, he represented homeless people in Santa Cruz, and fought for free speech,” according to Mills. As well, he hosted a radio talk show at KOMY, an Air America affiliate, although he was not associated with the bankrupt network. Sanford and Mills also hosted the “Paul and Shawn Show” on Saturdays at the Seaside, California, radio station KRXA.

Of course, there is no evidence Paul Sanford was pushed from “at least nine floors” above the large ventilation grate where he met his fate. As well, there is no evidence he committed suicide, or did he fit the profile of a suicide. However, there is plenty of evidence Sanford was a thorn in the side of the neocons, committing the ultimate sin of accusing one particularly nasty top drawer neocon, Karl Rove, of treason.

son of a prophet said...

wanna take bets?

he....(check one)

1.) jumped

2.) fell

3.) was pushed

4.) all of the above

5.) none of the above

son of a prophet said...

Activist California Attorney and Bush Critic Falls To His Death From 12th Floor of Embassy Suites Hotel


Was the Christmas Eve death of freedom fighter Paul Sanford a suicide leap or was he pushed?

Friends and family have many questions even though police ruled his death a "probable suicide."



30 Dec 2006

By Greg Szymanski

www.arcticbeacon.com



Reports remain sketchy but a controversial activist attorney from Monterey Bay fell to his death Christmas Eve, falling from somewhere between the 9th and 12th floors of the Embassy Suites Hotel in the seaside California community.



Police describe the death of attorney Paul Sanford as a "probable suicide leap" and a number of horrified guests who were eating breakfast at the time said they saw Sanford fall from one of the top floors.



A report in the local Monterey daily paper provided no clues to what really happened to Sanford besides the sketchy police reports. But the paper did mention that Sanford was an ardent critic of the Bush administration, being active in community organizations and hosting several independent radio shows in Santa Cruz and Monterey counties.



One of Sanford's close friends and business partners, Shawn Mills, commented that his friend was in no way suicidal and was very upbeat and active as well as a passionate believer in "a dynamic Constitution.



His friend added that Sanford always carried a copy of the U.S. Constitution in his pocket and recently added journalism to his many talents.



According to Mills he caused quite a rift after he joined the White House Press Corps in 2005, making waves as the first reporter to ask then-White House press secretary Scott McClellan whether the leaking of CIA agent Valerie Plame's name might be considered an act of treason.



Sanford was tagged by Washington insiders as an enemy of the administration, adding further speculation that Sanford's death may be more than a suicide as other friends of the controversial attorney said he was "in good spirits" after recently purchasing his mother's expensive California home.



Regarding his questions to McClellan, Sanford had this to say at the White House Press conference:



"There has been a lot of speculation concerning the meaning of the underlying statute and the grand jury investigation concerning Mr. Rove," Sanford asked. "The question is, have the legal counsel to the White House or White House staff reviewed the statute in sufficient specificity to determine whether a violation of that statute would, in effect, constitute treason?"



According to other newspaper reports "McClellan was apparently flustered by the question and replied that 'those are matters for those overseeing the investigation to decide.'"



In the Monterey Herald's article Mills added:



"I'm at a loss for words. Paul really had his fingers in a lot of different pies. He was from the East Coast, and I used to call him our 'West Coast Kennedy.'



"He was a champion of the downtrodden, he represented homeless people in Santa Cruz, and fought for free speech. He did a run across America. You name it he's done it. This is a real shock and a loss to the community."



Reports also surfaced that Sanford's wife and many other friends and associates were in shock and disbelief that his death was ruled a suicide, saying "Sanford seemed happy and had made many plans for this week and in coming months. Mills said he and Sanford recently decided to open a shared law office to serve Monterey and Santa Cruz counties, something Sanford was looking forward to doing."



A report in the Monterey Herald by Julia Reynolds added the following information concerning his strange Christmas Eve death:



The White House incident sparked controversy after Beltway bloggers incorrectly described Sanford as a reporter for the Air America radio network. At the time, he was associated with Watsonville radio station KOMY, an Air America affiliate, and Sanford told reporters he never claimed to work for Air America.



Sanford eventually filed suit against station owner Michael Zwerling after Zwerling was reported as saying Sanford had not been authorized to represent the station as a reporter, a statement Sanford refuted.



Mills represented Sanford in that suit, which was scheduled to begin in Santa Cruz County Superior Court in February. Mills said he did not know if the case will continue after Sanford's sudden death.



Although the dispute with Zwerling caused Sanford a great deal of stress at the time, Mills said his friend was feeling fine about it and believed he would soon be vindicated in court.



Sanford and Mills also have hosted the "Paul and Shawn Show" on Saturdays at Seaside radio station KRXA, where they covered last fall's election and interviewed former Salinas mayor and now Assemblywoman Anna Caballero, Pacific Grove Mayor Dan Cort and others.



In 2002, Sanford inadvertently found himself at the center of a controversy in Santa Cruz County when his independent election fundraising was characterized in the Santa Cruz Sentinel as last-minute "developer" contributions on behalf of supervisor candidate Mark Primack. Primack lost to incumbent Mardi Wormhoudt by fewer than 600 votes.



Friends and associates expressed disbelief at the news of Sanford's death and that it was ruled a suicide, saying Sanford seemed happy and had made many plans for this week and in coming months. Mills said he and Sanford recently decided to open a shared law office to serve Monterey and Santa Cruz counties, something Sanford was looking forward to doing.



He and Sanford spoke on the phone "around four or five times a day," Mills said, and the two had just spoken on Thursday, "tweaking a marketing plan" for their new law practice before Mills went out of town for the Christmas holiday.



"I just don't know what happened since Thursday. There was nothing on the horizon there to know this was going to happen," Mills said. "We were going to get together this week."



Mills said he had spoken to Sanford's wife, Paula, and that she also was in shock. He said Sanford, a father of two, was a devoted family man.



"This is a horrible thing for his family. He would never have intentionally put his family through that trauma. Something's not right, it doesn't make sense."



Police said that before Sanford fell, hotel housekeepers saw him pacing the hallway of an upper floor. Cercone said Sanford's car was parked next to the hotel, and he was not checked in as a guest.



Police declined to state exactly why they ruled the case a suicide.



Mills said he and Sanford often met at Chili's restaurant next to Embassy Suites Hotel Monterey Bay because the KRXA studio was nearby.



Mills said Sanford should be remembered for his volunteer work in the local community. "People don't like to work for free, and Paul worked for ideology. He didn't like the attention a lot. The attention he's going to get now would upset him."

son of a prophet said...

OBITUARIES
----------


SADDAM HOOSAIN

PRESIDENT OF IRAQ WAS HUNG BY HIS B**LS MOMENTS AGO IN IRAQ NOT A MOMENT TOO SOON AS US OFFICIALS LOOKED ON AND BREATHED A SIGH OF RELEIF LEST HE LIVE A DAY LONGER AND SPILL THE BEANS ON USA COLLUSION/WAR CRIMES IN IRAQ AND ELSEWHERE.


+++R.I.P.+++







LOLOLOLOLOLO!!!!

neodemes said...

Mogel states:

"These were the translations of some ancient records, that had fallen into Joseph's hands originally from the catacombs of Egypt. The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by Abraham's own hand, upon paprus. See History of the Church vol. 2 pp. 235, 236, 348-351.

Joseph also had the Urim & Thumum, an acient spiritual breastplate device, the same type of device which possession of it constituted a person to be a seer in Old Testament times, which gave the person in authority spiritual powers. This special gift enabled Joseph Smith to translate these records. Remember, Joseph Smith had a 3rd grade education & couldn't have done what he did without divine help."

**********************************

The papyri were, indeed, authentic. However, they have been examined and translated by Egyptology experts and found to be part of the "Book of the Dead" and having nothing to do with Moses, Abraham or any such thing.

By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus: A New Look at the Joseph Smith Papyri
by Charles M. Larson

neodemes said...

In other words, Smith made it up out of whole cloth.

son of a prophet said...

"....guys, its getin' a little hot under the collar here, doncha think?"



http://video.msn.com/v/us/
v.htm?g=8DFB018F-2716
-4FA2-8532-A33A79852F51&t=
c2771&f=
06/64&p=hotvideo_m_
iraq&fg=>1=8816

son of a prophet said...

"...you got my shirt size wrong; i have a 17 neck. this shirt is a little tight..."

son of a prophet said...

(picture not shown-go to site to see pic)caption below

Mormon teenagers demonstrate in Sal Lake City for their right to choose plural marriage


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/
article/0%2C%2C11069-2523162%2C00.html


Out of the shadows, the Big Love women who want the right to share a husband
Catherine Philp in Salt Lake City, Utah

Mormon wives are coming forward for the first time to defend their plural marriages and help to root out the abuse of young girls




Dressed in her sharp pinstripe suit, her dark brown hair elegantly coiffed, Vicky looks every inch the archetypal young working woman after a day at the office. But there are things she does not talk about at work.
Things such as the house she grew up in with her 39 brothers and sisters. Things such as the 21 children, six of them her own, who run around the house she lives in now. Things such as the two other “sisterwives,” one of them her blood sister, with whom she she shares her husband, taking turns to spend the night with him in strict rotation. “It’s not a thing we generally publicise,” she says shyly.



Now, however, Vicky is going public, although she declines to use her last name. As high-profile cases of child sex abuse among secretive cults unsettle and anger the larger polygamist community, women like Vicky are stepping forward to lobby in defence of a woman’s right to be a plural wife without fear of prosecution. “We live good and decent lives,” she said.

Going public on polygamy has long been a risky business in Utah, where an estimated 40,000 polygamists live below the legal radar. For the past 50 years Utah has had a strict “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy towards the practice, a felony punishable by up to five years in jail. The policy was prompted by a raid in 1953 on a polygamist community that ended with hundreds of children taken into care and parents jailed, causing a public relations disaster.

Some groups retreated into compounds. Those living among the wider community kept their mouths shut and their heads down. Parents avoided taking their children to the dentist or doctor, fearing the discovery of their secret. Children were warned not to bring friends home from school – if they were allowed to go.

Murmurs persisted of dark acts among some of the many splinter groups of Mormon fundamentalists, the umbrella term for those who broke away from the main Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints over the practice 100 years ago.

Then in 2003, in a direct challenge to prosecutors, Tom Green, a polygamist, began appearing on television shows to argue his right to his five wives.

“I’d never really thought about prosecuting polygamy,” said Mark Shurtleff, a mainstream Mormon who had been elected Utah attorney general the year before. “But it’s a felony and he’s out there flaunting it.” Investigators discovered worse: Mr Green’s youngest bride was only 13 and had borne him a child – proof of a sexual relationship. Mr Green was charged with child rape and polygamy.

The case opened up a Pandora’s box for Mr Shurtleff. Emboldened, escapees from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, the closed cult led by Warren Jeffs, came to tell their stories. “The stories were horrendous,” he said. Carolyn Jessop, who escaped with her eight children, told him of forced child marriages, the abuse of young boys and girls and threats to slit their throats if they left.

“Here’s what I had to decide,” Mr Shurtleff explains. “We had to do something. How are we supposed to prosecute all the polygamists, 20,000 people? It can’t be done. So we decided ‘We’ll go after child rape, child sexual assault. We’ll make it about that, not religion’.”

A warrant was issued for Mr Jeffs’s arrest on charges of aiding child rape instead of polygamy. He went on the run but was recaptured in August. The shocking testimony of a former child bride at a hearing earlier this month convinced a judge to send Mr Jeffs to trial. The hearing is set to begin in April. The stories of Mr Jeffs’s church horrified many other polygamists who regarded his actions as an abuse of God’s law. To them polygamy is a religious duty that they must undertake to reach the highest level of heaven.

Anne Wilde, the widow of a high-profile polygamist, decided it was time to save the reputation of the community as a whole. She began collecting the oral histories of plural wives to publish in a book and created a website for her organisation, Principle Voices. She launched a pro-polygamy magazine, Mormon Focus, and recruited Vicky to pose with her two sisterwives and their babies for the inaugural cover, taking lessons from same-sex marriage advocates to argue their right to an “alternative lifestyle”.

“It was also easier for me because I was no longer a plural wife,” Ms Wilde explains. “For those others, it was a brave thing to do.”

“I really want to get married,” Milly, a 13-year-old pupil at a fundamentalist school, says shyly. “I spent my whole time reading polygamist love stories.” Monica, 16, who has a boyfriend, is not sure that polygamy is for her. “We’ve talked about it. He’s set on it but I don’t know if I could do that,” she says.

------------------------------

hey milly, i sure lots of guys would marry you. can you make oatmeal??

i just love oatmeal.....



LOLOLOLOLOLO!!!!!

neodemes said...

What's next, gay polygamy? Will that get you to the 'highest level of heaven', too?

son of a prophet said...

“We’ve talked about it. He’s set on it but I don’t know if I could do that,” she says.


REALLY?!



NO KIDDING?!

i be ded set on it too. why have just oone when you can have a bunch? just make sho u have a BIG shower, so you can fit all of at once when you done....

LOLOLOLOLO!!!!!!!

just like "lays" you cant have just one lays ptoato chips


THAT IT!!! IM JOININ' THE MOMONS.

LIKE LAYS, I WANT ME A BUNCH TOO.

YES, GET ME A NICE BIG HOUSE, PAY FO IT WITH THE DG;

HAVE ALL KIND OF WOMENS WAIT ON ME....AH, YES, IT DONT GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT....


LETS SEE, A FEW 14'S, A FEW 16'S AND A FEW 18'S NONE OVER 18

OH YES AND ONE 13, DONT WANT TO FORGET ABOUT MILLY. CANT FOGET MILLY.
NEED SOMENONE TO MAKE ME OATMEAL FOR BEARKFEAST.

son of a prophet said...

hey mog,

if you out there, just having some fun,

my consciense force me to say that i dont believe that you are like that at all.

jsut having fun..... :-)

but truly, as the bible said that the heart is desperately wicked, at least i would admit it.

I AM JEALOUS. I WISH THAT I COULD HAVE A BUNCH OF WIFES TOO. REALLY.

AND A BUCNCH OF TEENAGE WIFES IF IT WAS LEGAL. I WOULD BE A LIAR TO SAY OTHERWISE AND SO WOULD ANY ONE ELSE TO BE A LIAR TO SAY OTHERWISE.

son of a prophet said...

you can only gain wisdom by being totally deatached and admitting to yoself cetatin things. otherwise you just lieing to yoself.

yes. mans heart is desparately wicked beyond all redemption if not for yeshua hamashiach grace and salvaation.

son of a prophet said...

The prophets and the law

(commetns by editor, me, in parenthis)




Early leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints practised plural marriage with the belief that it was approved in the Bible. A doctrine of plural marriage was announced at a conference in Salt Lake City, August 28-29, 1852

Plural marriage was defined as bigamy in US federal law on July 8, 1862. Church leaders said that this was unconstitutional because it would prohibit a religious practice

They tried to challenge the law with a test case using George Reynolds, a church member who had two wives, Mary Ann Tuddenham and Amelia Schofield. Reynolds was convicted when the case reached the Supreme Court on January 6, 1879

The Edmunds Anti-polygamy Bill was passed on March 14, 1882, defining polygamous living as “unlawful cohabitation”. In 1884 polygamists were imprisoned and others fled to Canada and Mexico

The Church denounced polygamy on September 24, 1890, when its president, Wilford Woodruff, said that it would submit to US law. But the practice was still continued by breakaway fundamentalists

There are 40,000 polygamists in the US, and 10,000 people claim to be members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

Polygamy is present in 78 per cent of global cultures. While most are polygynist marriages, in which a man has multiple wives, in Nepal and Tibet there are polyandrist marriages, in which a woman has multiple husbands

(WOW. multiple hubands! that woman must be open up like a porthole on a ship; i can put my head inside and look around....LOLOLOLOLO!!!)

Source: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, news archives

Wedding Mass


King Solomon’s 700 wives and 300 concubines were his undoing. The Bible says that in his old age they “turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God”

(of course it truned him away form god. that waht happen when you getting too much, you already thngk yo in heaven alerdy)

The status of Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon church, as a prophet enabled him to carry on marrying after his death. Recent scholarship indicates he had 33 wives, but some estimates are as high as 48

(this is the best of them all! j smith must have been a supranatual prophet; HE WAS STILL "GETTIN' SOME" EVEN AFTER HE WAS DIED!)

BIG TIME LOLOLOLOLOLO!!!!!!!

King Mswati III of Swaziland chose his 13th wife last year from 20,000 virgins

(how he know they all 20000 vigins? what, he chek them all out like a groinacologist would??)

The 17th century Turkish Sultan Ibrahim I, known as “the Mad”, kept a harem of about 280 women. He is said to have had all but two drowned for infidelity

(wwel, at least he dint hang them)

Jan Bockelszoon, a leader of the 16th century Anabaptist church, made it illegal to reject a marriage proposal. He rescinded the law after 16 wives
Sources: The Bible; FARMS Review; Royal Follies, D. Randall; University of Virginia; Times archives

son of a prophet said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
mogel said...

Nemo: Book of the Dead? Where can I read about the "Book of the Dead"? Never heard of that.

Ever heard of Mark Hoffman from Salt Lake City, Utah? Probably one of the most clever forgerers of our time, or maybe of all time. His speciality was religious history forgeries. His forgeries of ancient religious historical documents were considered by the so called experts as authentic too. He made hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to rewrite the history of the Mormon church by saying that instead of angels and Gods appearing to Joseph Smith, and instructing him of spiritual things, a salamander talked to him, yes that's right, a salamander. This was accepted by the "so called experts". Course if true, then the origins of the Mormon church were built upon lies and fallacies. Not so ridiculous I guess if you buy the story that a snake talked to Eve, or is Mark Hoffman's story in fact, ridiculous?

He ended up committing murder trying to hide the fact that he committed MANY forgeries and got away with it. By throwing the police off his own track in his forgery & theft, he committed a murder to confuse the police. Except he got caught transporting a bomb in his own car & it blew up & injured himself because he wasn't careful enough. This all went on about 12 years ago. This was the break that police needed to find out that his ancient documents were forgeries committed by his own hands. They went to his home & found all of the supplies he had at his house that enabled him to do all of the forgeries he did. He had several documents of so called historical documents that he sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars to these "so called experts". He had a lust for money for sure.

The experts don't buy forgeries, unless they believe them to be authentic. Sophisticated investors don't buy these things either unless you have experts backing their authenticity. He made a fortune doing this. Even the "so called expert" disagree among themselves, so I don't take much stock in your anti-mormon book written by people that have an axe to grind.

Hoffman is now spending close to a life sentence in Bluffdale, Utah for his lies, forgeries, & murder.

I find it fascinating and humorous that the so called enemies of Joseph Smith would ADMIT THAT THE PALPYRI WAS GENUINE. LOL

Man, Joseph Smith must have been the luckiest person in the whole wide world, don't you think finding all of these valuable things all on his own? After all, he wasn't a fortune hunter, but a poor farmer & unschooled at that. LOL

Course Professor Anton, another expert, also said that the characters off the golden plates that Joseph transcribed & took to THE EXPERT of Joseph's day, were authentic too & gave Joseph Smith an affidavit to that effect also.

Gee if Joseph Smith was a fraud, wouldn't he have sold these documents, golden plates for huge money if he were a liar and a con artist & an evil man? He lived a life of poverty you know, just a poor farmer most of his life.

So not only was the palpyri authentic according to the so called experts, so also was the golden plates which later became the Book of Mormon as attested by the expert of his day.

mogel said...

Nemo said: "What's next, gay polygamy? Will that get you to the 'highest level of heaven', too?"
__________________________________
I think that's your most intelligent question to date. LOL

neodemes said...

Book of the Dead

neodemes said...

salamander, moron, tomAtos, tomatos

mogel said...

Nemo: I raise you one expert against your so called expert:

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Abraham.shtml

My goodness, just read the book yourself & decide for yourself if there's anything inspiring in the Book of Abraham.

You ignorant people that want to "judge a book by it's cover" only, & be convinced of it's content, good or bad, just amuse me.

mogel said...

Nemo: The foremost authority on the Book of Abraham, has got to be Hugh Nibley. He died last year, but many of his works are published:

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600114671,00.html

mogel said...

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600114671,00.html

mogel said...

http://deseretnews.com/dn/
view/0,1249,600114671,00.html

kaz4541 said...

when would this be over??????????????

habakkuk said...

Hey, have you heard the news??? Don't know if its true or not but I hear Christopher Story is a solid reporter from the UK.

Read This yal:

PAULSON AND CHENEY SUBPOENAED BY TRIBUNAL
Saturday 30 December 2006 20:05
U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY HENRY M. PAULSON HAS BEEN ARRESTED IN EUROPE

SENTENCING INFLICTS EXTREME DISGRACE UPON THE UNITED STATES GENERALLY

U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY SEIZED AND BROUGHT BEFORE 'AD HOC' TRIBUNAL IN GERMANY ON A SUBPOENA HANDED OUT BY THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE [OR 'WORLD COURT'] ON CHARGES OF MONEY-LAUNDERING, NON-PAYMENT OF THE WANTA $4.5 TRILLION AND FOR MISAPPROPRIATION AND/OR DIVERSION OF COLOSSAL $ SUMS.

VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY LIKEWISE AT THE RECEIVING END OF PARALLEL SUBPOENA FOR SIMILAR CRIMINAL OFFENCE(S).

GERMAN AUTHORITIES EXERCISED THE INTERNATIONAL SUBPOENA, BRINGING PAULSON (AND CHENEY) UNDER GERMAN JURISDICTION, GIVEN THAT GERMAN BANKS TRYING TO MAKE THE WANTA PAYMENT WERE TWICE PREVENTED BY MR PAULSON FROM DOING SO. WHEN THIS HAPPENED THE SECOND TIME, PAULSON WAS ARRESTED.

PAULSON CHARGED WITH DIVERSION OF FUNDS AND WITH NON-PERFORMANCE OF WANTA’S $4.5 TRILLION: HE WAS ARRESTED AFTER SEEING MME ANGELA MERKEL, WHO WOULD OTHERWISE BE COMPLICIT IN THE $4.5 TRILLION THEFT (WHICH OF COURSE SHE IS NOT). BUT THAT WAS THE SITUATION.

ARREST CONFIRMED BY SEVEN SOURCES: KEY U.S. TREASURY OFFICIAL ORDERED TO GERMANY, SUBJECTED TO A GAG ORDER, AND INSTRUCTED TO TESTIFY AGAINST HIS OWN U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY. HE HAS BEEN IN GERMANY FOR THE PAST TWO WEEKS, TESTIFYING BEFORE THE TRIBUNAL, STAFF OF THE U.S. CONSULATE AND THE GERMAN ATTORNEY GENERAL (EQUIVALENT) ABOUT THE ENDLESSLY FRUSTRATED ATTEMPTS OF AMBASSADOR WANTA'S CORPORATION, TO OBTAIN RELEASE OF THE FUNDS, AND ABOUT ALLEGED CRIMINAL VIOLATIONS BY PAULSON, GOLDMAN SACHS AND COMPANY, ET AL.

THE U.S. ‘MAINSTREAM MEDIA’ ARE WITHHOLDING THE BIGGEST SCANDAL IN WORLD HISTORY FROM THE MUCH-ABUSED AMERICAN PEOPLE.

By Christopher Story FRSA, Editor and Publisher, International Currency Review, World Reports Limited, London and New York: www.worldreports.org. Press CLICK HERE and the ARCHIVE Button on the www.worldreports.org Home Page for Wanta Crisis reports since April 2006. Note: Due to NSA/CIA et al interference, some US users may find they can access worldreports.org directly, without the www. Mostly, www.worldreports.org provides access to our website at once.

son of a prophet said...

s**t strating to hit the fan???


why the rush to hang sadlam by the tetiscles??

maybe saddam know whre the $$$ is??? or who stole it????


strange that rush to hang saldam in two days notice???


wierd.....


well, like they say, then these events will strt a chain of events.


anyone wanna bet they DG money a middle east/iran or USA terroist strike soon to throw off the wanta trail with a bigger story?

son of a prophet said...

better get you batteries and falselights ready jus in case.

neodemes said...

mogel,

I see you are determined to live in your fantasy land with 9 million deceived souls.

That is tragic in its implications.

Good luck.

neodemes said...

Mogel,

It occurred to me that I have never thanked you for being a living testimonial to the erroneousness of the Theory of Evolution.

Thank you.

mogel said...

Theory of evolution? You'll have to explain where you are coming from there.

neodemes said...

Thanks again. You just strengthened my point.

;-)

mogel said...

Is this the evolution you speak of?

Philippians 3: 21:

"Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned LIKE UNTO HIS GLORIOUS BODY, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

mogel said...

Or maybe this is the evolution you are speaking of:

Hebrews 5: 8-9

"Though he were a Son, yet LEARNED he obedience by the things which he suffered;

And BEING MADE PERFECT, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

Luke 2: 52:

"And Jesus INCREASED IN WISDOM and stature, and in favour with God and man."

mogel said...

Maybe this is the evolution you are speaking of:

Math 5: 48:

"Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father which is in heaven IS PERFECT."

Tony Tuba said...

U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY HENRY M. PAULSON HAS BEEN ARRESTED IN EUROPE.........




If this is true........now he knows how the rest of us feel as prisoners to his "make it up as he goes" theory and policy. What goes around comes around HENRY!!!!!!!!!!

mogel said...

Or maybe this is the evolution you are speaking of, like the "First Estate" part of the evolution toward perfection when we were all just Spirits only:

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains of darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

habakkuk said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
habakkuk said...

US Treasury Secretary Paulson has been arrested by German authorities on a subpoena issued
by the International Court of Justice, and brought before an 'ad hoc' Tribunal accused of money-laundering, misappropriation/diversion of colossal amounts of money, and non-payment/non-performance on the $4.5 trillion Wanta Plan Settlement.

He has been sentenced to severe penalties [see below].

Henry M. Paulson's arrest by German authorities implementing the 'World Court' subpoena, took place on 23rd or 24th of December 2006.

Although we have been 'sitting on' this intelligence since the Christmas weekend, pending further information, we now have very high-level confirmations from both London and Washington, and a total of seven sources for this intelligence.

The basic details are as follows:

1. Records exist confirming that International Court of Justice subpoenas were issued against Henry M. Paulson, the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, and Vice President Richard Cheney, citing inter alia money-laundering, misappropriation or diversion of colossal amounts of money, and non-performance on the Wanta Plan Settlement funds of $4.5 trillion, subject of www.worldreports.org postings since June 2006. This is an inevitable consequence of the corruption exposed on this website over the Wanta Settlement, for the past six months and more.

2. A senior official within the US Treasury was placed under a gag order and was subpoenaed to travel to Germany to testify against Henry M. Paulson. The official has been in Germany for the past two weeks, testifying before US Consulate and Tribunal officials, and Germany's Attorney General. The subject of his testimony has been the struggle that Ambassador Leo Wanta and his corporate Treasurer, Michael C. Cottrell, M.S., have been having to endure, in order to procure payment of the $4.5 trillion Wanta Plan Settlement signed in May 2006 by the President of the United States, US Supreme Court Judges, and other prominent US parties, and warmly welcomed by the Group of Eight (G-8) countries in July 2006.

He has also been testifying in detail about the ransacking of funds that has been taking place in recent months, and the illegal activity over which Mr Henry M. Paulson has been presiding in this context. Mr Paulson, who has sole signatory power over Wanta's hijacked $4.5 trillion, was previously the Chief Executive Officer of Goldman Sachs and Company, so that his behaviour represents the Grandfather of all US and international financial conflict-of-interest scandals.

3. The official was required to present the Tribunal with the comprehensive data contained within the 'data burst' issued by the US Treasury in November [see our earlier reports], which prove that instead of the 'data burst' providing for the Wanta Settlement payment, the funds were being stolen and secreted offshore.

4. THIS IS THE BIGGEST OFFICIAL FINANCIAL SCANDAL IN AMERICAN AND WORLD HISTORY. THE SUBPOENAED OFFICIALS (HENRY M. PAULSON AND RICHARD CHENEY) NOW HAVE THE FOLLOWING STRAIGHTFORWARD CHOICE:

• GO TO JAIL FOR AS MUCH AS 15 YEARS, POSSIBLY LONGER.

• RESTORE THE STOLEN FUNDS/PAY THE WANTA $4.5 TRILLION OVER WHICH PAULSON EXERCISES PERSONAL SOLE CONTROL AS PREVIOUSLY REPORTED, AND BE DISMISSED OR STEP DOWN FROM OFFICE. THERE MAY FURTHER BE A PROVISION FOR PAULSON TO BE HELD FOR 12 MONTHS UNDER HOUSE ARREST.

5. AS NOTED BELOW, MR PAULSON DULY MET THE GERMAN CHANCELLOR, ANGELA MERKEL, AS SCHEDULED, ON 21ST DECEMBER, IN BERLIN. HE WAS SUBPOENAED SHORTLY AFTERWARDS [SEE ONE REASON FOR THE TIMING, BELOW], AND WAS THEN ARRESTED IN GERMANY ON 23RD OR 24TH DECEMBER [DATE TO BE CONFIRMED WHEN POSSIBLE].

6. IT WILL BE APPRECIATED THAT MADAME CHANCELLOR WAS LEFT WITH NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER. ANY ATTEMPT ON HER PART (WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN SUGGESTED) TO THWART THE SUPREME WILL OF THE INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE'S TRIBUNAL, WOULD HAVE MEANT THAT SHE WOULD HAVE BECOME COMPLICIT IN THE CRIMINAL FINANCIAL OPERATIONS IN QUESTION.

7. THE NUMBERED NOTES GIVEN PROMINENTLY HERE ARE BASED UPON INTELLIGENCE VERIFIED BY A SENIOR BRITISH SOURCE, AND BY A HIGH-LEVEL AMERICAN OFFICIAL WITH KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUBPOENAED U.S. TREASURY OFFICIAL'S SCHEDULE AND TESTIMONY BEFORE THE TRIBUNAL IN GERMANY. THE TWO REPORTS COINCIDE ARE ARE VERIFIED BY OTHER SOURCES.

8. COLLECTIVELY, THESE DEVELOPMENTS REFLECT THE ANXIETY OF THE GROUP OF EIGHT [G-8] COUNTRIES TO STRAIGHTEN OUT THE CATASTROPHIC MESS THAT MR PAULSON ET AL HAVE CREATED, GIVEN THAT THEIR FINANCIAL OPERATIONS HAVE (AS WE PREDICTED) NOW BROUGHT THE INTERNATIONAL FINANCIAL SYSTEM TO THE BRINK OF MELTDOWN.

The rest of this report is just as relevant, but was prepared overnight 29th/30th December 2006, whereas the above numbered notes were incorporated upon receipt of this updated intelligence, at around 4.00pm UK time Saturday 30th December 2006.
___________________________________

I hear the German authorities are gonna give him internet access so he can start a blog and keep in touch with his criminal partners in Washington DC:)

LOL!!!! This is getting good folks.

mogel said...

"U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY HENRY M. PAULSON HAS BEEN ARRESTED IN EUROPE........."
_______________________________

If this is true, he's not exactly in a position right now to redress damages to the Dorean Group, unless he can delegate this somehow.

Wouldn't you think if this were true though, you would hear about it in the press somewhere in the world, maybe in a German newspaper?

habakkuk said...

Hey tcob...where you at buddy?? This is getting good.

~~The Swami~~~ said...

I must admit I have great disappointment that HENRY M. PAULSON is in jail. I was hopeful he would make an announcement to run for president in 2008 just like his uncle Pat Paulson of Laugh in Fame did in 1968. It's difficult to run for president when you're in jail! Did Hilary fear Mr. Paulson? He did have a lot of MONEY behind him! Maybe Hilary turned the screws and got him arrested! Seems very suspicious to me!

neodemes said...

Its true. Paulson WAS arrested....


















































...in 1969




Paulson was arrested in 1969 for sneaking into a pool for a late-night swim, but the charges were later dropped, according to a questionnaire released Tuesday.
Paulson, who was 23 at the time of the incident, made the disclosure in a questionnaire released at his confirmation hearing before the Senate Finance Committee.
"In mid-August 1969, I climbed the fence of a swimming pool in West Lafayette, Indiana, and swam in the pool after hours. I was arrested for trespassing and fingerprinted. Subsequently, all charges against me were dropped," Paulson said in the questionnaire.
Reuters

habakkuk said...

Now..Paulson can only dream of his skinny dipping days of 1969;)

son of a prophet said...

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO Y'ALL!!!

MAY 2007 BRING YOU HEALTH AND PROSPERITY!


(AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE HS, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DO NOT YET HAVE IT, AS WITHOUT THE HS, THE ABOVE 2 ARE MEANINGLESS)

son of a prophet said...

dun bleeve everthins you read on the instanet, but....

first, sec of bankrupy is arested, and now this...

Iranian State media says, ‘Shiite messiah will kill archenemy in Jerusalem, could come during Spring Equinox' - A triumphal religious prophecy has appeared on an Iranian official state media website, heralding the return of the Shiite messiah

http://www.ynetnews.com/
articles/0,7340,
L-3346589,00.html

son of a prophet said...

HOLD ON FOLKS!!!

like i said before, you thought 2006 was crazy, WAIT!!!


07 will make 06 look like walk in the park.


get you flaslits and battrries, you gonna need 'em.

son of a prophet said...

Iran: Mahdi will defeat archenemy in Jerusalem


State media says, ‘Shiite messiah will kill archenemy in Jerusalem, could come during spring equinox'

Yaakov Lappin Published: 12.31.06, 13:01




A triumphal religious prophecy has appeared on an Iranian official state media website, heralding the return of the Shiite messiah.



According to the website, "Imam Mahdi (may God hasten his reappearance) will appear all of a sudden on the world scene with a voice from the skies announcing his reappearance at the holy Ka'ba in Mecca."



The Islamic Republic of Iran broadcasting (IRIB) website said in a program called 'The World Towards Illumination,' that the Mahdi will reappear in Mecca and form an army to defeat Islam's enemies in a series of apocalyptic battles, in which the Mahdi will overcome his archvillain in Jerusalem.

Global Threat

Opposition group: Iran behind 80 percent of terror attacks in world / Yaakov Lappin

Iran opposition group releases detailed brief on Tehran's Qods Force, an 'international Islamic army' exporting attacks worldwide
Full Story





The series has been regularly updated throughout November and December.



"The Mahdi's far sightedness and firmness in the face of mischievous elements will strike awe. After his uprising from Mecca all of Arabia will be submit to him and then other parts of the world as he marches upon Iraq and established his seat of global government in the city of Kufa.



“Then the Imam will send 10 thousand of his forces to the east and west to uproot the oppressors. At this time God will facilitate things for him and lands will come under his control one after the other," the website declared.



"After his appearance the Imam would remain in Mecca for some time, and then go to Medina... a descendant of the Prophet's archenemy Abu Sofyan will seize Syria and attack Iraq and the Hejaz with the ferocity of a beast… finally Imam Mahdi sends troops who kill the Sofyani in Beit ol-Moqaddas (Jerusalem), the Islamic holy city in Palestine that is currently under occupation of the Zionists," the IRIB added.



'Jesus will be Mahdi's lieutenant'

According to the Iranian series, the Mahdi will reappear on earth with Jesus: "We read in the book Tazkarat ol-Olia, 'the Mahdi will come with Jesus son of Mary accompanying him.' …Imam Mahdi will be the leader while Prophet Jesus will act as his lieutenant in the struggle against oppression and establishment of justice in the world. Jesus had himself given the tidings of the coming of God's last messenger and will see Mohammad's ideals materialize in the time of the Mahdi."



"The seat of the Mahdi's global government will be the city of Kufa , where his headquarters will be the Sahla Mosque… From here he will dominate the east and the west to fill the earth with justice," the special series predicted.



The website added that prayers for the Mahdi's return were said daily in Iran: "In our time, many pray for his appearance and each day they renew their allegiance to him. 'O God, make me one of his companions, show me his respected and bright visage, and hasten his reappearance.'"



'Mahdi to come during spring equinox?'

The IRIB website is filled with details of the Mahdi's return, including descriptions of physical attributes of "the perfect human being."



"He will appear as a handsome young man, clad in neat clothes and exuding the fragrance of paradise… He has a radiant forehead, black piercing eyes and a broad chest. He very much resembles his ancestor Prophet Mohammad (SAWA).




“Heavenly light and justice accompany him. He will overcome enemies and oppressors with the help of God, and as per the promise of the Almighty the Mahdi will eradicate all corruption and injustice from the face of the earth and establish the global government of peace, justice and equity."



'The World Towards Illumination' series cites some Islamic sources as saying that the Mahdi's return "may coincide with the Spring Equinox... A saying attributed to the Prophet's 6th infallible heir, Imam Ja'far Sadeq (PBUH) says the Mahdi will appear on the Spring Equinox and God will make him defeat Dajjal the Impostor or the anti-Christ as the Christians say, who will be hanged near the dump of Kufa."

son of a prophet said...

intersting that the word "mahdi" had the elements of the roman word for god in it.

mah di

from latin "dio(s)" word for god.

was laemanski right after all?

did rome creat (mohammed) islam many years ago but then islam turned on rome?

when the arabs figured out that they were being used?

son of a prophet said...

if arctibeacon is right, then it means that rome wants to destroy jerusalem but is coy enuf to let the arabs do it by fooling them.

son of a prophet said...

the cehney/palsun stroy seem to be bogus.....




Bush Silences a Dangerous Witness


Saddam Hussein now won’t be around to give troublesome testimony about how he obtained the chemical and biological agents that his scientists used to produce the unconventional weapons. He can’t give his perspective on who got the money and who facilitated the deals, notes Robert Parry.


Like a blue-blood version of a Mob family with global reach, the Bushes have eliminated one more key witness to the important historical events that led the U.S. military into a bloody stalemate in Iraq and pushed the Middle East to the brink of calamity.

The hanging of Saddam Hussein was supposed to be – as the New York Times observed – the “triumphal bookend” to George W. Bush’s invasion of Iraq. If all had gone as planned, Bush might have staged another celebration as he did after the end of “major combat,” posing under the “Mission Accomplished” banner on May 1, 2003.

But now with nearly 3,000 American soldiers killed and the Iraqi death toll exceeding 600,000 by some estimates, Bush may be forced to savor the image of Hussein dangling at the end of a rope a little more privately.

Still, Bush has done his family’s legacy a great service while also protecting secrets that could have embarrassed other senior U.S. government officials.

He has silenced a unique witness to crucial chapters of the secret history that stretched from Iran’s Islamic revolution in 1979 to the alleged American-Saudi “green light” for Hussein to attack Iran in 1980, through the eight years of the Iran-Iraq War during which high-ranking U.S. intermediaries, such as Donald Rumsfeld and Robert Gates, allegedly helped broker supplies of war materiel for Hussein.

Hussein now won’t be around to give troublesome testimony about how he obtained the chemical and biological agents that his scientists used to produce the unconventional weapons that were deployed against Iranian forces and Iraqi civilians. He can’t give his perspective on who got the money and who facilitated the deals.

Nor will Hussein be available to give his account of the mixed messages delivered by George H.W. Bush’s ambassador April Glaspie before Hussein’s 1990 invasion of Kuwait. Was there another American “green light” or did Hussein just hear what he wanted to hear?

Like the climactic scene from the Mafia movie “Casino” in which nervous Mob bosses eliminate everyone who knows too much, George W. Bush has now guaranteed that there will be no public tribunal where Hussein gives testimony on these potentially devastating historical scandals, which could threaten the Bush Family legacy.

That could have happened if Hussein had been turned over to an international tribunal at the Hague as was done with other tyrants, such as Yugoslavia’s late dictator Slobodan Milosevic. Instead Bush insisted that Hussein be tried in Iraq despite the obvious fact that the Iraqi dictator would receive nothing close to a fair trial before being put to death.

Hussein's hanging followed his trial for executing 148 men and boys from the town of Dujail in 1982 after a foiled assassination attempt on Hussein and his entourage. Hussein's death effectively moots other cases that were supposed to deal with his alleged use of chemical weapons to kill Iraqi civilians and other crimes that might have exposed the U.S. role.

[For details on what Hussein might have revealed, see Robert Parry’s Secrecy & Privilege or Consortiumnews.com’s “Missing U.S.-Iraq History” or “The Secret World of Robert Gates.”]

Thrill of the Kill

Some observers think that Bush simply wanted the personal satisfaction of seeing Hussein hanged, which would not have happened if he had been sent to the Hague. As Texas governor, Bush sometimes took what appeared to be perverse pleasure at his power to execute prisoners.

In a 1999 interview with conservative writer Tucker Carlson for Talk magazine, Bush ridiculed convicted murderer Karla Faye Tucker and her unsuccessful plea to Bush to spare her life.

Asked about Karla Faye Tucker’s clemency appeal, Bush mimicked what he claimed was the condemned woman’s message to him. “With pursed lips in mock desperation, [Bush said]: ‘Please don’t kill me.’”

But a more powerful motive was always Hussein’s potential threat to the Bush Family legacy if he ever had a forum where he could offer detailed testimony about the historic events of the past several decades.

Since stepping into the White House on Jan. 20, 2001, George W. Bush has made it a top priority to conceal the history of his father’s 12 years as Vice President and President and to wrap his own presidency in a thick cloak of secrecy.

One of Bush’s first acts as President was to sign an executive order that blocked the scheduled release of historic records from his father’s years. After the 9/11 attacks, Bush expanded his secrecy mandate to grant his family the power to withhold those documents from the American public in perpetuity, passing down the authority to keep the secrets to future Bush generations.

So, even after George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush are dead, those noted historians Jenna and Barbara Bush will control key government documents covering a 20-year swath of U.S. history.

Already, every document at the George H.W. Bush presidential library must not only be cleared for release by specialists at the National Archives and – if classified – by the affected agencies, but also by the personal representatives of both the senior and junior George Bush.

With their backgrounds in secret societies like Skull and Bones – and with George H.W. Bush’s work at the CIA – the Bushes are keenly aware of the power that comes from controlling information. By keeping crucial facts from the American people, the Bushes feel they can turn the voters into easily manipulated children.

When there is a potential rupture of valuable information, the Bushes intervene, turning to influential friends to discredit some witness or relying on the U.S. military to make the threat go away. The Bushes have been helped immeasurably, too, by the credulity and cowardice of the modern U.S. news media and the Democratic Party.


What Can Be Done


Still, even with Hussein’s execution, there are actions that the American people can take to finally recover the lost history of the 1980s.

The U.S. military is now sitting on a treasure trove of documents seized during the invasion of Iraq in 2003. The Bush administration exploited these documents to discredit the United Nations over the “oil for food” scandal of the 1990s, ironically when Hussein wasn’t building weapons of mass destruction. But the Bush administration has withheld the records from the 1980s when Hussein was producing chemical and biological weapons.

In 2004, for instance the CIA released the so-called Duelfer report, which acknowledged that the administration’s pre-invasion assertions about Hussein hiding WMD stockpiles were “almost all wrong.” But a curious feature of the report was that it included a long section about Hussein’s abuse of the U.N.’s “oil for food” program, although the report acknowledged that the diverted funds had not gone to build illegal weapons.

Meanwhile, the report noted the existence of a robust WMD program in the 1980s but offered no documentary perspective on how that operation had occurred and who was responsible for the delivery of crucial equipment and precursor chemicals. In other words, the CIA’s WMD report didn’t identify the non-Iraqis who made Iraq’s WMD arsenal possible.

One source who has seen the evidence told me that it contains information about the role of Chilean arms dealer Carlos Cardoen, who has been identified as a key link between the CIA and Iraq for the procurement of dangerous weapons in the 1980s. But that evidence has remained locked away.

With the Democrats taking control of Congress on Jan. 4, 2007, there could finally be an opportunity to force out more of the full story, assuming the Democrats don’t opt for their usual course of putting “bipartisanship” ahead of oversight and truth.

The American people also could demand that the surviving members of Hussein’s regime be fully debriefed on their historical knowledge before their voices also fall silent either from natural causes or additional executions.

But the singular figure who could have put the era in its fullest perspective – and provided the most damning evidence about the Bush Family’s role – has been silenced for good, dropped through a trap door of a gallows and made to twitch at the end of a noose fashioned from hemp.

The White House announced that George W. Bush didn’t wait up for the happy news of Hussein’s hanging. After the U.S. military turned Hussein over to his Iraqi executioners, Bush went to bed at his Crawford, Texas, ranch and slept through the night.

Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories in the 1980s for the Associated Press and Newsweek. His latest book, Secrecy & Privilege: Rise of the Bush Dynasty from Watergate to Iraq, can be ordered at secrecyandprivilege.com. It's also available at Amazon.com., as is his 1999 book, Lost History: Contras, Cocaine, the Press & 'Project Truth.'

habakkuk said...

SOP...And how does that make the story bogus???

habakkuk said...

Heres where i heard it from:

http://www.worldreports.org/news/38_paulson_and_cheney_s

Christopher Story is from the UK and he's been a financial reporter since the 70s....He has intelligence sources that feed him info. He's also developed a personal relationship with Leo Wanta.

Alls i'm saying is that if he's pushing bogus info then we cant believe nothin we read.

son of a prophet said...

hab,

there is no one beleive that there is a NWO more than i do and that they are evil.

but, we all have to play fair here or we get like "them" too.

with all the alex jones types and poisin planet wchich the author is from the UK, you got to admit that at least ONE ohter anti NWO site would have had stoemting by now??? no?

but i kep an opne mind, if someinthting else shows up, i will read it and make judgemnet on whrehrt or not it is true.

plent of anti NWO intaernt folks would of jumped on this story.

son of a prophet said...

see, thats another reason that ppl think that they can defeat the NOW.

in order to defeat them, one would have to be like "them"

and tht means to abandon all godly principles.

but, with no godly pricniples, all you have done is repalced one un-godly group for another.

an you cnnot defeat the NOW using godly principels (till yeshua come back) becuss this would require to kill and for a christian, our weapons are not carnal, but spirtual.

and spirits dont kill ppeople.

son of a prophet said...

whre do they get these "polls?"


http://www.crooksandliars.com/
2006/12/28/
ap-poll-bush-1-villain-of-2006/

son of a prophet said...

i will give you one p;oint for your cheny/p;aulson story.

wahtcing the eveing news shwoing former pres fords funereal, many digs were there,

bush, cliton, sec def rumsel, other vip's, etc...

notably absent: cheney

mabye in the pen in gemarny??

habakkuk said...

SOP,

I dont thing Cheney was thrown in with Paulson (yet)...Paulson was in Germany meeting with the PM and he got nabbed while over there.

I dont think Christopher Story is a typical NWO whistleblower like Alex Jones, etc....He's a financial reporter who has been in the business for 30 + years...He is one of the lone journalists who are taking on the Wanta story (although in UK). He also has a friendship with Wanta and others associated with Wanta. He's almost been the Wanta Team's personal reporter because they trust the guy. I heard a couple audio interviews with the guy a few months ago.

habakkuk said...

I guess we can watch the news and see if they come up with a bogus story about the where abouts of Paulson. I'll be wathcing:)

son of a prophet said...

while i dont dispute the honesty of a chirs sotry story, we dont know if story was really the author of that internet story, do we?

it can easily be fraudulent, cant it be?

only way to know fo shu, is if yo a "paid" subscriber to the currency rewiew by the autheor, then you know it not fake, no??

other wise i can pay someone to write a story abut, you name it and claim it from a reliable source that everyone knows.

"alex jones says alien to visit earth next week"

son of a prophet said...

and i almost forgot, what about that anti NWO guy, atticdeacon.com???

that guy wiould be ALL OVER THIS STORY.

dont you think??

son of a prophet said...

in fact, somenone shudl send him the link to the sotyr, maybe he will post it?

habakkuk said...

"while i dont dispute the honesty of a chirs sotry story, we dont know if story was really the author of that internet story, do we?"

Thats kinda a stretch..but OK...I'll give u that.

BTW, He has been interviewed by Greg Szysmanski (arcticbeacon.com)several times about the wanta story....You'll probably see somethin on his site this week about the recent events.

mogel said...

SOP: I don't know if the Leo Wanta story is true or not. 4.5 trillion sounds like alot of money to me! To brings things into perspective, isn't that more than 1/2 the national debt?

If it is true that Mr. Paulson is arrested in Germany, which seems hard to believe, maybe it's just as hard to believe or accept that maybe there's some correlation to his arrest and the settlement for Dorean clients too? After all, the alleged arrest took place about December 23rd or December 24th, according to the articles, definitely before Christmas 2006 when things allegedly were suppose to be settled. That seems to be in the time frame of Kim Clement's alleged prophecy:
www.kimclement.com/words/
2005/Dec1/2005.html

"In 2006, God wants to clean your debts completely, entirely."

Weren't things supppose to be settled before Christmas 2006 according to this alleged prophesy? Wasn't this first where Kurt picked up on this idea as a settlement date? Course Kim Clement is a man, not a woman.

Who is the woman that seems to mimick Kim Clement's alleged propecesy that Kurt refers to? Her name was never mentioned.

It appears that "the woman" spoke about closure 90 days ago to happen before Christmas 2006, which is a different date from the date Kurt first heard about Kim Clement & posted the information of his alleged prophesy on his blog: March 3, 2006.


Maybe the arrest date of Mr. Paulson could be God's leveraging straw that will finally make things happen, & breaking the camels back so to speak, assuming of course Mr. Paulson is in jail right now. I don't know of course; I'm just speculating.

It doesn't hurt to speculate or suppose at this point since it appears to the human mind at least that the trial is going to start the end of March 2007, assuming nothing earth shattering happens before then, unless the Leo Wanta story is earth shattering enough.

After all, didn't the Secretary of the Treasury, diss on the Dorean Group through his silence and nonperformance of Kurt's offer to settle things by now? Is the law of karma happening here possibly? Isn't nonperformance & silence, acceptance of all of Kurt's original offer of terms? Doesn't one of those terms specify that if Kurt is convicted in a criminal trial, that the President of the U.S. has agreed to pardon Kurt & Scott? If that's the case & if you assume that Kurt's offer which some believe to be arguable a binding contract now due to an acceptance through silence, then, the President is bound by contract to disallow a life sentence for Kurt & Scott in the worst case scenario. One might say, that will never happen!!!!

Didn't President Clinton pardon a bunch of people before he left office, including Mark Rich, I think his name was, involved in all that money laundering stuff involving the Bush's & the Clinton's as the allegations say? Kurt couldn't be considered a bigger criminal than the Mark Rich's of the world, even if you are Nemo, or Fruit, or even Tycob!!!

Didn't President Ford pardon President Nixon, a proven felon by his breaking & entering & stealing of documents at the Watergate building? So it's no big deal for a President to pardon a proven crook and consider it, business as usual!!! Not that I'm implying crooked tendencies towards the Dorean Group because I'm not.

I always thought the office of President of his special power for pardoning was to redress wrongs done by the Courts & to pardon innocent people, not guilty people, but haven't Presidents already shown a propensity for pardoning felons & crooks?

I guess if Mr. Paulson is going to have to cough up 4.5 trillion, or be forced to spend 15 years in prison, what's another handout of a measly 40 billion to the Dorean Group comparatively speaking? Or is it 80 billion or 120 billion now owed to the Dorean Group due to the Secretaries default now since "all terms of Kurt's original offer now applies"?

Maybe the last event needed to settle things has already taken place? Maybe it's just a waiting game at this point?

comebackfromfantasyland said...

mogel said... That seems to be in the time frame of Kim Clement's alleged prophecy:

"In 2006, God wants to clean your debts completely, entirely."

Weren't things supppose to be settled before Christmas 2006 according to this alleged prophesy?



Mogel, mogel ,mogel all of those words ...

1. What part of 2006 did the ppl become debt free? and dont give us the "behind the scenes things are happening stuff"

2.earlier on this blog some1 stated that in the end times their god is going to set them free, unfortunately, that is a further proof of the sheep mentality of religions. where has this god been your whole life and all the generations before it? sitting back playing chess watching you all in bondage and fraud but at the very end it is going to 'set you free'? sheesh.

that would be the worst trustee in mankinds recorded history.


perhaps there is a alternate reality with a 2006 christmas that didnt happen yet! and there is still time to spin
or perhaps, some things are not as some would have you believe.

Stillwaiting said...

Hello all.... I have been away on business and vacation. When I got back and clicked on my bookmark for Mortgage Fraud which usually comes up with the blog about the DG, Kurt and Scott and info about MF. Instead my bookmark directed me here to this blog about religion, politics and some very off the wall/subject stuff.
Can anyone direct me back to the real topic - Mortgage Fraud and update from K&S.

getmeoffthisride said...

SOP - Jim Jones claimed to be a prophet and women submitted to him. He killed all of his followers including himself. It is wrong.

What about the Christian man who beats his wife regularly and says it's in the name of God and that she needs to submit more? Is she to submit more to his lame excuse of a man and be beaten more?

Whether you like it or not, women are filled with the Spirit and have messages to give. God will use whom He choses to use. You can't change God's word to make out to be what you want it to be. You said that you would even disagree with the bible about what it says in regard to women prophets. Wow, then that can only mean you refuse God's word. You are held accountable.

It is true that women are not to be heads of the church or teachers of men, we are also not to submit to false teachings because we are also, individually, held accountable to our relationship with Christ.

If my husband tells me to go out and steal, who is going to come first? God or my husband? God is going to come first. And in that moment, God has become my husband whom I will obey. The word says that Christ has come to divide not to bring peace. He divides the wheat from the chaff. You know what that means, right?

I have been filled with the Spirit many times and it is an awesome feeling and I LOVE sharing God's word with someone who needs it. I LOVE being used by the Holy Spirit to do God's work.

My husband isn't a godly man. He is fair though, isn't mean to me, works hard, and loves me no matter what. I'm still held accountable for my actions though. I will not follow him into beer drinking or watching movies that promote pornography (all movies made these days have sexual content in them and some of them have hard core sex, even children's cartoons while not showing sex, talk about it in a roundabout sort of way). I'm held accountable for my actions.

I will continue to homeschool my children. I'm held fast to my convictions to raise godly children. I don't want to send them into hell. My husband doesn't see anything wrong with taunting our teenage son with light porn that is shown in movies (in other words, he won't screen what he watches) so that our son won't fall into temptation before marriage. So, I set the limits.

At the same time, our marriage works out fine the way it does. My husband has set the standard for our home. I take care of everything here, bills, children, errands, laundry, teaching, and now I may add working to my list as we need a second income. The only thing I don't do at the moment, is work outside the home.

Like it or not, there are women prophets, God has shown us that there are in his word. Men aren't always right. The scripture says that if what a man says doesn't come true, then he isn't a prophet. Men have prophesied the the end of the world many times, and they have never been right.