Tuesday, March 27, 2007

Life (02-12-07)

The capacity to relate to one’s environment being a great definition of life also exposes a dilemma. In the movie The Sixth Sense this is played with well. You see the Bruce Willis character relating to various situations throughout the movie only to discover at the end he was relating to none and was a ghost. This is the struggle I have with life and you may have also. Christ in John’s gospel goes through a grand discourse on Him being life and those not of Him have not His life. He made it clear He was above this world, not of it, and the authority over it. Now we know God placed something in our blood called life that sustains existence, which gives us the capacity to relate to our environment. All are possessed with this gift but this is no guarantee to relate to Christ and His environment that is not of this world. Picture if you will two people living in the same house, never meeting, never relating and oblivious to the other’s existence. Now their would be signs constantly appearing in a domain you thought you controlled like a toilet seat left up or down, a dirty cup left in the sink, a fragrance, food missing or appearing etc., but with no concept of a shared existence one could never reason these events. If by chance a shared existence comes by revelation then all your gifts and closed world reasoning becomes obliterated by entirely new equations and answers. As I reason with my environment on the logical, legal, emotional, esthetic, ethical, and temporal in relation to the case and characters of the case I am plagued by an otherworldly voice postulating a completely different set of facts. Now I am fortunate by revelation to have been given an invitation to relate to Christ, His world, and to have a dual existence. The dilemma created is this, that the deductions are irreconcilable. They are only compatible if the lower course is enfolded into the motives and intentions of the course of the world above. As I approach the end of this trial it is not what is before my eyes that concerns me but what is appearing from the influence of the world above that I might not be seeing clearly for what it is. Prayerfully now I seek to be relating to this life. If I being a dual-citizen struggle with postulations of divine influences how much more will my enemies who are aliens and foreigners? Surely my gifts as potent as they might be pale in comparison to any display of the giver. As the house is not as glorious as the builder neither can this trial be greater than He who designed it. My life, which started with the struggle of birth, struggles to exist as it does in being born again and to breath the rarified air of another world. The will to act is poised as a sprinter in the blocks but the passionate neuronic burst awaits the command from the head, which is the Christ. Until that moment I can run the race in my imagination and reiterate the mechanics and training I developed but with no clear reality until life happens. To worry is to give imagination the status of fact. To trust has inherent in it patient endurance. I do not have the answer to life but I know Him and am known by Him and this world can only marvel at the signs of an existence they have no revelation of.

19 comments:

tcob247 said...

lol

down but not out said...

I am in amazement at the level of derogatory comments spoken by so called believers. Not just about Kurt and Scott, but about each other as well. All you good "Christians" should take a look at scripture and see what God says about scorn and mockery. Look at James 3:9 "With the toungue we praise Adonai our Father, and with it we curse men,who have been made in His likeness"10 "Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing, My brothers, this should not be"
How many of you would proudly show your Pastor, Priest, Rabbi, etc what you have posted on this blog ? Not many I suspect.

near the end said...

down but not out, Your 100% right. I'm sorry to all I have bad mouthed and scorned and cussed. I let my emotions get the better of me and for that I'm sorry.

We should all hope and Pray that K and S win this battle.

Then all the people who feel like they have lost money will get it back.

Yetter said...

A mighty oak was once a nut who held it's ground.
God's speed Kurt and Scott.

oksurewhynot said...

The Sixth Sense? Wow. That movie is a bit old and so are his postings.

Leslie Neilsen said...

Is there anybody......out there?
Where be SOP, TACO, KAFOOLIO, MOOGSIE, JUDGE BEANIE BABY, et al?
BTW why have we not heard from Will to fight for such a long time?
Did he strike a deal with the federalies?

mogel said...

For those naysayers that say that the criminal trial is meaningless since the Civil courts have already said or ruled that the dorean process is a scam, consider all of these court cases where it says that you can't interfere in contracts, or interfere in a persons right to labor, & a persons right not to be incarcerated wrongfully & the right of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution that has been violated with Kurt & Scott.

Once the Principals go free, they will have huge damages against many Defendants including the prosecution team, the court, the FBI, etc. Anyone with some intellect can see how the cases below can be applied to Kurt & Scott's situation.

Adams v. Tanner, 244 U.S. 590, 378 Ct. 662 (1917), the Supreme Court considered a statute prohibiting employment agencies from charging fees for obtaining employment. The Supreme Court, citing and quoting Allgeyer, held:

"The liability mentioned in that amendment means not only the right of the citizen to be free from the MERE PHYSICAL RESTRAINT OF HIS PERSON, AS BY INCARCERATION, but the term is deemed to embrace the right of the citizen TO BE FREE IN THE ENJOYMENT OF ALL OF HIS FACULTIES, to be free to use them in all lawful ways; to live and work where he will; to earn his livelihood by any lawful calling; to pursue any livelihood or avocation."

The Supreme Court was presented with a challenge by a German teacher of a Nebraska law which prohibited teaching lessons in any language other than English in Meyer v. Nebraska, 262 U.S. 390, 43 S. Ct. 62 (1923). The Supreme Court held the law was AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL INFRINGEMENT ON A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT PROTECTED BY THE 14th AMENDMENT. At p. 399 the Supreme Court stated:

"While this Court has not attempted to define with exactness the liberty thus guaranteed, the term has received much consideration and some of the included things have been definitely stated. Without doubt, it denotes not merely FREEDOM FROM BODILY RESTRAINT, but also the RIGHT OF THE INDIVIDUAL TO CONTRACT, to engage in any of the common occupations of life, to acquire useful knowledge,.... to enjoy those privileges long recognized at common law as essential to orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.
Slaughter-House Cases, 16 Wall.36; Butchers Union Co v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746; Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356; Minnesota v. Barber, 136 U.S. 313; Allgeyer v. Louisiana, 165 U.S. 578; Lochner v. New York 198 U.S. 45; Twining v. New Jersey, 211 U.S. 78; Chicago, Burlington & Quincy RR. Co v. McGuire, 219 U.S. 549; Truax v. Raich, 239 U.S. 33; Adams v. Tanner, 244 U.S. 590; New York Life Ins. Co. v. Dodge, 247 U.S. 357, Truax v. Corrigan, 257 U.S. 312; Adkins v. Children's Hospital, 261 U.S. 525; Wyeth v. Cambridge Board of health, 200 Mass. 474.

In Massachusetts Bd. of Retirement v. Murgin, 427 U.S. 307, 96 S. Ct. 2562 (1976) Justice Marshall writing at 322:

"Whether fundamental or not, the right of the individual...to engage in ANY OF THE COMMON OCCUPATIONS OF LIFE has been repeatedly recognized by this Court as falling within the concept of liberty guaranteed by the 14th Amendment."

"In Smith v. Texas, 233 U.S. 630 (1914) in INVALIDATING A LAW THAT CRIMINALLY PENALIZED ANYONE who served as a brakeman, and that thereby excluded numerous equally qualified employees from that position, the Court recognized that all men ARE ENTITLED TO EQUAL PROTECTION OF THE LAW in their right to work for the support of themselves and family. Id., at p. 641."

"In so far as a man is deprived of the right to labor, his liberty is restricted, his capacity to earn wages and acquire property is lessened, and he is denied the protection which the law affords those who are permitted to work. Liberty means more than freedom from servitude, and the constitutional guarantee in an assurance THAT THE CITIZEN SHALL BE PROTECTED IN THE RIGHT TO USE HIS POWERS OF MIND, AND BODY IN ANY LAWFUL CALLING." Id., at 636.

"IT HAS BEEN WELL SAID THAT, THE PROPERTY WHICH EVERY MAN HAS IS HIS OWN LABOR, as it is the most sacred and inviolable."
Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations, Bk. 1.

The Supreme Court in Grosjean v. American Press Co., 297 U.S. 233 (1936) said:

"The word "liberty" contained in the 14th Amendment embraces not only the right of a person to be free from physical restraint, BUT THE RIGHT TO BE FREE IN THE ENJOYMENT OF ALL OF HIS FACULTIES AS WELL."

So when the Dorean Group goes free, and they will, the flood gates of damages will be wide open.

To those clients that are angry at the Dorean Group, please put the blame on the right entities that your mortgage is not now forgiven or cancelled or annulled.

Anyone that possesses a sincere & open heart can see that the best of intentions have been applied to achieve the objectives that have been promised to clients. This is not fraud as the court alleges. There has never been any willful intent to deceive or not give that which was promised.

notarial dissent said...

Again with the misquotes Moogs, the statement was that the outcome of the criminal trial will have no effect on the civil verdict, each is independent of the other.

Quoting Moogles: “....consider all of these court cases where it says that you can't interfere in contracts, or interfere in a persons right to labor, & a persons right not to be incarcerated wrongfully & the right of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution that has been violated with Kurt & Scott.”

And those would be what cases oh legal expert???? There is nothing in law that says a contract based around a fraud is anything more than a fraud, and there is no right to commit fraud, so wrong again. a persons right not to be incarcerated wrongfully refers to a person right to be charged and aprised of the charges against them and this has been done, so nice try, and as far as the 14th is concerned, they have been treated like every other scumbag that commits fraud, they have been arrested, charged, and jailed, and are awaiting trial.

Keep on dreaming Moogs, dim and dimmer had best get used to prison gray, it is going to be their wardrobe for most of the remainder of their lives. There isn’t going to be any “when they get out”.

There is no constitutional right to commit fraud or to conspire to commit fraud, and an act that is illegal in and of itself CANNOT be made legal because of a contract. So, as they say, no cookie.

mogel said...

Notarial Dissent: I'm sorry to inform you but in this country a person is assumed innocent until proven guilty BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. That hasn't been done yet. And proven guilty with facts and witnesses who are sworn under oath. You still haven't shown where there are any damages caused to the lenders, let alone any fraud committed by the Dorean Group. Where are the testimonies under oath of the lenders being damaged? Shouldn't that be in the court records? Doesn't a Defendant have the right to be faced by their accusors and also be able to question them? When are these victims going to come forward & testify? Never?

You should go back to the country you came from where the opposite is true where assumptions are facts, and facts are only opinions and assumptions. You know, the world of Alice in Wonderland where you came from.

A person is not automatically a "scumbag" because they've been arrested and imprisoned.

Speaking of misquoting, I never said there was a constitutional right to commit fraud.

When fraud can't be proven, & the prosecution can't make the charges stick, this will only show that the unfair rulings in the civil cases were based upon lies.

mogel said...

Notarial Dissent said: "as far as the 14th is concerned, they have been treated like every other scumbag that commits fraud, they have been arrested, charged, and jailed, and are awaiting trial."
___________________________________

Wrong again, this case is about "selective prosecution". 6 people charged out of 4,000 + clients. If this is all a scam, as you say, than it's also illegal to participate in a scam or even market a scam.

Let's see that's .0015% being charged. Pretty selective, wouldn't you say? Kind of reminds me of the Chinese laundrymat case you & I discussed; he being discriminated against since he was only Chinese.

And oh, Dewey Tobias, one of the 6 charged, only was charged & convicted with one count of conspiracy. That's only 2 years in his sentence. Since he's served one year, he's only got one more year to serve. The trial could be postponed & the eventual result could last at least another year theoretically due to continued motions & delays, if not longer, as you have maintained, so he would have probably stayed in jail at least another year anyway, whether he pled guilty or not. At least in a year, he's done with all of any tricks the prosecution could play, so maybe he didn't make such a bad deal after all?

Contrast that with the Principals being charged with 68 counts & being threatened by the Judge with life in prison. Equal protection or equality under the law. Don't think so.

notarial dissent said...

Poor Mooney, run out of dead horses finally????

I never said they had been convicted yet, just that I believe they will be, and on the face of what they have done I see no reason why they won’t be. I say this from 30 years experience in the banking, real estate, and law fields, and knowing from personal knowledge, that every action the dim duo took was fraud from beginning to end, and was done with the knowing intent to defraud the lenders, and the people they were supposedly helping.

As to the rest of your long winded diatribe, let’s wait for the trial, at which point there will be a veritable parade of witness, all under oath, and testifying to what dim and dimmer did and conspired to do. I would also suspect that they will also trot out the mountains of paper with their signatures fraudulently appended as well. At this point, the gov’t will have boxes and boxes and boxes of affidavits, testimony, depositions, and just good old hardcopy documents showing the fraud, and it will all come out at trial, and of course, if dim and dimmer have anything that shows they weren’t committing fraud or that will rebut what the gov’t is alleging, they can trot that out too. You, as usual, are putting the cart before the horse, since none of this will be in the court record until it is properly introduced at trial.

The facts are, that they conspired to and did in fact defraud numerous lenders by filing documents they had no right to file, they conspired with and aided in several peoples getting second loans on houses on which they hadn’t actually paid off the first mortgage on, and then attempted to perpetuate the same fraud again on that loan as well. Most importantly, they took money under false pretenses, being that they could “legally” void a mortgage, and then split the proceeds of the second mortgage between themselves and the mortgagees. Yep, real honest and above board, committing fraud not only once but twice on the same piece of property, didn’t work more than a few times though before it all fell apart though. By the way, Moogs, how many people lost their houses after trying this particular part of the stunt??/

Since I wouldn’t trust dim and dimer to tell, let alone know the truth if it came up and bit them, we probably won’t know now many people were only just conned out of their money as opposed to the ones who actually participated in the fraud until after it all comes to trial and the actual figures come out.

Moogems, I am free to make all the assumptions I want to, and particularly since they are based on the evidence of what dumb and dumber have done, and my own knowledge of how this all works. I’m not on the jury, and would ask to be excused if I was called. I’ve seen too many of the “boys” documents, and they all reek of fraud.

quoting MoogeyA person is not automatically a "scumbag" because they've been arrested and imprisoned. “ I will have to agree with you there, however their actions do determine that opinion, and I was quite convinced their scumbagginess long before they were arrested or even charged. They had long before proven their character, or lack thereof.

I’m sorry, if I misconstrued your valiant defense, but if you were attempting to imply that dim and dimmer had a constitutional right to pursue their business, they you were implying they had a constitutional right to commit fraud, since that is what they were doing, plain and simple. As someone once pointed out, Freedom of Speech does not extend to shouting fire(unless there is one) in a crowded theater, anymore than the rights of equal protection of right to work or however you want to phrase it grants a right to commit gross and ongoing fraud.

Again Moogs, you can’t seem to get it through your head that the verdicts in the criminal or civil trials, are totally unrelated one to the other. Even, on the absurd chance that the criminal verdicts come in not guilty, it will not change the civil verdict, anymore than the civil verdict says they are guilty of the criminal action. You are free to dream on, but it ain’t a gonna happen.

quoting Moogey”this case is about "selective prosecution"“ Not really Moogs, the charges against the principals is based on their active participation in the fraud and open conspiracy to commit the fraud and the multiple counts of fraud against them, as to the remaining their prosecution would depend upon their level of participation and their level of knowledge of what they were actually doing, and whether they did anything more than contribute to dim and dimmer’s spending habits. So I would suspect the figure is more likely closer to about 600 for people who “might” be prosecutable to one degree or another depending on their involvement.

My understanding is that Tobias cut a deal for a shorter sentence, and from what I understand, he was inept enough that he may have been only liable for the suckers he drew in. In any event, he was not the one calling the shots, just one of the down line that got caught.

The charges are based on each incidence of violation they could find, so 68 is not out of bounds, but if correct, definitely makes a lie of all the mortgages they voided.

mogel said...

Notarial Dissent said: "So I would suspect the figure is more likely closer to about 600 for people who “might” be prosecutable to one degree or another depending on their involvement."
____________________________________

The FBI confiscated all the documents that were in the Dorean office, so the prosecution knew how many clients were in the process at that time & it far exceed 600 & they had names & addresses & other personal information.

Also, do the math yourself. Even an average cost of $3,000/client x 600 clients is only 1.8 million. That doesn't even come close to what the FBI reported offshore in newspaper articles. Also alot of money went to expenses too, payroll, etc. & that would never be in the bank when the FBI confiscated funds since they were expenses that were paid out.

Also, the UCC liens filed in CA against the individual notes exceeded 1200 clients, so you are no where close in your assumptions.

mogel said...

Notarial Dissent said: "By the way, Moogs, how many people lost their houses after trying this particular part of the stunt??/"
__________________________________

I don't know. I can't say that I know of any of them that did a refinance that also lost their homes.

mogel said...

Notarial Dissent said: "The charges are based on each incidence of violation they could find, so 68 is not out of bounds, but if correct, definitely makes a lie of all the mortgages they voided."
__________________________________

So let me see if I understand you correctly. You say that there were at least 600 clients, and false documents were filed for each client, but the prosecution could only find 68 times where documents were filed in public records?

You also indicate the fact that they were charged, automatically makes a lie of all the mortgages the Dorean Group voided? So charging is tantamount to a guilty verdict?

Do you really believe the words you spout out?

mogel said...

Notarial Dissent said: "Since I wouldn’t trust dim and dimer to tell, let alone know the truth if it came up and bit them, we probably won’t know now many people were only just conned out of their money as opposed to the ones who actually participated in the fraud until after it all comes to trial and the actual figures come out.
__________________________________
Wrong again. Kurt did tell how much he brought in from the Dorean business. If my memory serves me correctly, it was said on this blog and it was 15 million dollars or 15 million credits. If the average person paid $3000 for entrance into the program, you can get into the ballpark & you can figure out how many clients that might be.

What do you mean, the Dorean Group wouldn't know how much money they took in from their bank account & other records?

Conned out of their money as opposed to participating in the fraud?

Sorry to inform you of your ignorance, but ALL CLIENTS participated in the process by signing documents, quit claiming their home into a trust & signing other papers and paying an entrance fee.

mogel said...

Conspiracy: "a combination of two or more persons to commit a criminal or unlawful act, or to commit a lawful act by criminal or unlawful means, or a combination of two or more persons to concerted actions to accomplish an unlawful purpose, or some purpose not in itself unlawful by unlawful means. It is essential that there be two or more conspirators; one cannot conspire with himself. 314 P. 2d 625, 631. A conspiracy to injure another is an actionable tort; it may also be a criminal offense if the object of the conspiracy is within the reach of the definition of criminal conspiracy in the particular jurisdiction. Compare accessory; accomplice, aid and abet.

mogel said...

Let me quote again from the legal dictionary:

CONSPIRATOR: "One involved in a conspiracy; one who acts with another, or others, in furtherance of an unlawful transaction. "It is NOT NECESSARY that all of the conspirators either meet together or agree simultaneously...It is not necessary that each member of a conspiracy KNOW THE EXACT PART WHICH EVERY OTHER PARTICIPANT IS PLAYING; NOR is it necessary in order to be bound by the acts of his associates that each member of a conspiracy SHALL KNOW all the OTHER PARTIPANTS therein; NOR is it requisite that simultaneous action be had for those who come on later, AND COOPERATE in the common effort to obtain the unlawful results, TO BECOME PARTIES HERETO AND ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR ALL THAT HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE." 47 F. Supp. 395, 400-01. According to the Model Penal Code, a conspirator is one who, with another person or persons with the purpose of promoting OR FACILITATING THE COMMISSION OF A CRIME "a( agrees with each other person or persons that they or one or more of them WILL ENGAGE IN CONDUCT WHICH CONSTITUTES SUCH CRIME OR AN ATTEMPT OR SOLICITATION to commit such crime; or b) agrees to aid such other person or persons in the planning or commission of such crime or an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime." Model Penal Code 5.03 (Approved Draft 1962).
__________________________________

Notarial Dissent, since you say that the Dorean Process is a scam, as also testified by Judge Alsup, then by the definition above, all clients are conspirators. Clients don't even have to understand the process or know what others are doing for them in order to be a conspirator. The only element is that the conduct was illegal & that they participated. So your mumbo jumbo B.S. about saying that some people were conned is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT extraneous, redundant & immaterial to the discussion.

The only relevant issue to be answered is whether the Dorean Process is a lawful pursuit, or is it not a lawful pursuit? If it is a lawful pursuit justified by UCC law or other law, then, there can't be any commission of a crime, hence there can't be any conspiracy.

I've already established that all clients participated by their actions whether they were implied or expressed actions. Knowlege of what went on by the actions of those "calling the shots" is also irrelvant in terms of making a conspiracy charge stick.

The prosecution only has to show that one participated and that the participation was unlawful.

Since the FBI confiscated all of the Dorean Group's records, and since the FBI works in concert with the Court, the prosecution already knows who all the participants in the dorean process are. So if this is truly a scam, WHY IS EVERYONE NOT CHARGED TOO?

In conclusion this proves that the trial is about "selective prosecution", and hence the Court needs to say that the statutues are being wrongfully & prejudicially used as an unfair weapon, ONLY TO A SELECT FEW, just like they were under the same rule of law that Yick Wo was acquitted.

You can't be subject to a statute that is only used as a selective weapon for only a few. This is not justice, but a weapon of tyranny.

Also your judgment of Dewey Tobias is also totally inaccurate. He is not inept as you say. I've read things that he has written & he isn't inept, BUT VERY INTELLIGENT. The best that the prosecution could do is give him one charge of conspiracy!!! OHHHHHH THAT MAKES ME SOOOOOO SCARED!!!!!! :O)

And wrong again, he didn't GET CAUGHT AS YOU SAY. He was already in jail, and hence was an easy target to be indicted. Bullies go after easy targets because in essence bullies are lazy and weak.

Charging 4000 people with conspiracy would be too much work and manpower & expense, and since the trial isn't about justice, but only selective prosecution, the actions to date of the court & prosecution only trying to make examples of a few, makes TOTAL SENSE as far as their motives are concerned.

mogel said...

Notarial Dissent said: "The facts are, that they conspired to and did in fact defraud numerous lenders by filing documents they had no right to file,"
__________________________________

Wrong again!!!

Whether the trustees, had a right to file the documents they did is a legal question that needs to be ruled upon or answered according to the law.

A legal issue or question is not automatically a fact as you allege.

notarial dissent said...

Moogles, I am basing my figures on the numbers the gov’t released at the time of the indictment, they were saying there were between 5-600 loans that had actually been affected at one level or another. They never released a number for people who had been victimized but hadn’t actually terminally screwed themselves and were only out some money, and I have yet to see anything that actually lists a dollar figure for what was seized or that they estimate was taken.

Since I have no idea what criteria they used for filing their bogus liens, I have no idea where they came up with that figure, but it certainly isn’t the 4,000 clients they claimed. The liens being bogus in the first place, they were only a waste of someone’s money.

Actually, I can give you a partial list of the losers in CA;
The Case Family Trust
The James J. Shyrock, Jr. Family Trust
The Shavirovich Family Trust
The Beard Family Trust
The Pafundi Family Trust
The Mitchell Family Trust
The Edward A. & Janice L. Costa Family Trust
The Heineman Family Trust
The Elisia's Hope Trust
The Komes Family Trust
The Margery Naomi Johnson Family Trust
The Williamson Family Trust
The Magoon Family Trust
The Raymond J. Gaudreau Family Trust
The Frances Kenny Family Trust
And mustn't forget the best of the bunch The Heineman Family Trust and The Johnson Family Trust. There also should be a list for Oregon, N & S Carolina, and Florida. Really impressive when you can't save your own property with your magic remedy.

I have no idea what criteria the prosecutors used in making up their lists for charges, but you can be sure they will trot it all out at trial. I would suspect in part that they were only charged with things that happened within the northern district, since that would be their base of operations, and I know they had identified at least 17 cases within California.

Kurt hasn’t told the truth about anything to date, so I have no intention of taking his word for anything, I think his idea of the take, as with his idea of his client base is pure hooey. Since he started put claiming a huge number of successes, that didn’t exist, I don’t intend to give any credence to anything he claimed otherwise.

Well, unless my math has deserted me, you have dim and dimmer, and one con artist plus one fool certainly can add up to a conspiracy, and then when the brokers are added into the mix is adds up as well. They certainly were accessories before and after the fact to the actual scam, so no escape for them.

Problem with your definition Moogs, those conspiring actually have some hand in the conspiracy, which leaves most of the clients out of that part of it, since most of them were only purchasing the program so saying they were involved in the conspiracy would be difficult, participating in the fraud is another matter, some of them had to have known that what they were doing was illegal.

The Dorean process is not lawful, legal, or moral to paraphrase one of their early claims, never was, and never will be. Fraud is fraud, no matter what fine feathers you dress it up in. Dim and dimmer committed wholesale fraud, and conspired to do so and get other people’s money in the process. Those who participated in any of the process committed fraud, and as such are liable for either civil and or criminal actions down the road. Yet again, and once and for all Moogey, the UCC does not apply to real estate transactions, and very specifically says so.

I have no idea why the justice department made the charges the way they did, but I suspect they are taking the cases on the level of severity basis. The remainder of the Dorean charges will probably be in the realm of one or two charges per person, and not multiples like Kurt and Scott. In any event, they will not be charged with the same or same group of violations that the duo has been charged with. There is nothing that says they all have to be charged at the same time either, so again your excuse falls flat.

Comparing this to Yick Wo is ridiculous, since there is nothing similar between them.

If Tobias was so smart, then why was he in jail in the first place, and why did he get mixed up with a couple of inept con artists. Doesn’t impress me as particularly bright.

Mooney, filing a document you have no authority to file is fraud. None of the releases they filed were either valid or lawfully signed, so they committed fraud. True it will be decided in court, but they will be found guilty of filing false instruments.