Wednesday, July 18, 2007

The Plea Agreements

I heard that Neo placed the Tobias plea agreement upon Quatloos. Actually I have to say to Bruce this is the first time I can sincerely complement him for doing something honest. I hope all of you will read it. A lot can be learned from it. First you will notice that Dewey Tobias pled guilty to 1 count of conspiracy against the UNITED STATES (who?) under Title 18 § 371. I found this interesting since the UNITED STATES was not an original victim under Title 18 § 20 and is precluded from being so by that section. Our indictment is based on 27 victims who qualify as financial institutions under § 20 and then are considered the victims for § 1341, 1343, 1344, and 1349. These have now been reduced down to 12 remaining victims with one that is out of business, which won’t survive pretrial actions. This means that our total exposure to victims is 11. You might suspect again what I told you long ago that the clients of Dorean are an irrelevant number. Unless you can find a way to identify yourself with § 20 your claim is moot. (Maybe) If the crimes of Dorean are against the UNITED STATES there is only one way for that to be possible. That is through the commerce clause. The financial institutions are not the UNITED STATES or any agency of the UNITED STATES. Now the currency is not of the UNITED STATES but the UNITED STATES would have an interest via the commerce clause and public policy. Is this what they are admitting? I should certainly like that since that would make our incarceration criminal. If the crime is commercial then our settlement is legitimate and their dishonor a crime. If not then the 371 is an impossibility. Now Dewey and Farrel each plead to this § 371 and that section alone. It must be great to have an attorney to make the impossible come to pass. Maybe I should change my mind or opinion of this profession.

Here is another amazing stat. Our total exposure to victims is 11. That includes every count and all the defendants. Dewey and Farrel were considered minor participants and yet Dewey plead to more than 10 victims actually 40 while Farrel plead to more than 50. These added points that would increase their sentences. So now we have our co-defendants pleading to a charge against the UNITED STATES who must have an interest in the Dorean clients to allow them to be considered victims under § 371. To my knowledge none of the Dorean clients are the UNITED STATES or and agency thereof yet here they appear as though they are. How is that possible unless the clients are accounts on behalf of the UNITED STATES and therefore a commercial damage in a commercial crime?

The next stat is just as troublesome. The total loss or potential loss of these 11 victims if you conclude that the entire amount of the mortgages in question was exposed to loss would add up to $2,315,929.73. Even if most of this loss is impossible since there are 302 statements made to the FBI from these victims that they had no loss this total is millions less than the 7 million Farrel pled to and barely more than the 1 million Dewey pled to.

Can you see how your big scary UNITED STATES v. case is a lot more hot air than fact. If we believed in this farce called justice and the statutes as relevant then at this moment we could plead to the 11 victims at the un-factual full pop of $2,315,929.73 and still end up with a sentence of about 3 years for me and credit for time served for Scott. Now that doesn’t stop these blowhards from pretending that they have a life in prison case but if you read the indictment you’ll see for yourself. My question is what damages are left for me to plead to if Dewey and Farrel have already accepted responsibility for 4 times the total at risk? Maybe we are not the big cats in this game?

If I was here looking out for myself my exit would be right now. You can see from the plea agreements and this indictment that the UNITED STATES isn’t protecting your perceived interest. So again I ask you if you still think I’m the bad guy waiting out the opportunity to bring you and this retarded economics of a government (?) into the truth of the matter? Something is fishy if you look at the facts of the case and what is presumed to be the facts by the public, the press, and the judiciary.

30 comments:

mogel said...

This post is the best so far!!! When the prosecution can't wield any more threats due to the lack of substance they possess, then, a dismissal and settlement must be closer than ever.

Thanks Farrell & Dewey for making the trial a moot point now if it wasn't a moot point all along. Maybe you guys can get out of your plea agreements due to improper & inept legal counsel even if that might be a long shot at this point in time since you waived almost all of your rights.

Course there is no mention or any evidence or record of any deal that Sarah Magoon has made and the government has made no efforts to extradite her, so her situation becomes a curious matter at this point in time. Is it really necessary and paramount to have all Defendants make an appearance for the trial for the trial to proceed as scheduled?

Course it does make one wonder how the prosecution can get away with getting a conspiracy charge stick when it was never admitted who you guys colluded with & really what the substance of the scam really was.

It might be safe to say you couldn't have colluded with Kurt & Scott since Kurt & Scott weren't charged with conspiracy, so who did you guys collude with? The only other possibility would be you colluded with your clients in an alleged scam.

Course if it were the clients, then, the clients would also be subject to bank fraud or conspiracy charges & of course, none of them were charged, so in that case, the prosecutions case is only about selective prosecution, which according to the Yick Wo case, the basis of the conviction was declared unconstitutional and the Defendant was absolved of all charges.

Apparently the case can't be about bank fraud since the banking institutions by their own admissions weren't financially damaged, nor are there any affidavits that say so. If there is no bank fraud, there can't be any wire or mail fraud, or even conpsiracy charges, and even no victims at all, so where does the restitution monies end up with that is paid in the future according to the plea agreements signed by Farrell & Dewey? And if the restitution monies will eventually go back to the clients from Dewey & Farrell, than wouldn't that be a misappropriation of funds by the Court if the victims really aren't the dorean clients according to the statute?

And if Dorean pays out a settlement & even reimburses the entrance fees, and some clients get back restitution monies for their entrance fees from the Court, wouldn't that amount to getting paid twice, which is unjust enrichment?

And if the restitution monies go to the court only, isn't the court committing mail fraud accepting monies under false pretenses due to false charges, especially if there is no trial & especially if the Principals are acquitted & set free?

~~The Swami~~~ said...

Paul McCartney's $40 million offer to settle his divorce battle with Heather Mills apparently isn't enough, as the Beatle's ex is asking for $100 million to finalize things.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.............she doesn't have a leg to stand on.

habakkuk said...

"I've said it before and I'll say it again.............she doesn't have a leg to stand on."


HAHAHA!!!! I love it.

justice7777777 said...

mogel said...
This post is the best so far!!! When the prosecution can't wield any more threats due to the lack of substance they possess, then, a dismissal and settlement must be closer than ever.

Thanks Farrell & Dewey for making the trial a moot point now if it wasn't a moot point all along. Maybe you guys can get out of your plea agreements due to improper & inept legal counsel even if that might be a long shot at this point in time since you waived almost all of your rights.

Moogs, Moogs, Moogs, not only is this post by "GOD" ridiculous, your believing it, is even worse.

This has got to be the most pathetic "by far" from both of you. But then again, Johnson's twisting of events has become a mastery trait over the past two plus years.

Unfortunately, it will not turn out as heckle and jeckle (Johnson and Moogs) have foreseen.

justice7777777 said...

....and before I forget, Tobias and Lecompte plead to victims/clients.

The federal charges are crimes against victims/financial institutions, so they are two SEPERATE classes of victims.

Ok, moogs give us the spin.....

justice7777777 said...

Conspiracy is the easiest charge to make stick in a federal case. This law was written so vague it does require much to convict, and it was intentionally written for the purpose of an easy conviction for the gov't.

habakkuk said...

"Conspiracy is the easiest charge to make stick in a federal case. This law was written so vague it does require much to convict, and it was intentionally written for the purpose of an easy conviction for the gov't."

___________________________________

Yeah, 2 years later....easy.

mogel said...

Justice said: "and before I forget, Tobias and Lecompte plead to victims/clients."
________________________________

I UNDERSTAND that the perceived restitution based upon the conspiracy charge was based upon the monies paid by Dorean clients which is who the prosecution is referring to as the victims, but apparently the code is saying otherwise and also simply because if there is no bank fraud, there can't be an victims as far as clients are concerned & hence no conspiracy exists. However, it appears to me that the two Brokers who pled are assuming that bank fraud by the Dorean Group is a given and an easy thing to prove by the prosecution, otherwise, neither of them never would have made a deal & having to pay back this restitution ordered by the court, has got to be a real bitch to boot.

Since Flemcompte had more clients (90) & Tobias had fewer than 50 clients, Tobias's restitution to pay was only $60,000 as I remember from memory, & Flecompte's restitution will be far greater to pay back having had more clients. I guess the difference between the two deals is that Tobias knows where he stands now as far as jail time & Flecompte doesn't since he hasn't been sentenced officially. I guess the court is waiting for his future performance as a perceived star witness for the prosecution. Maybe Flecompte thinks he can earn more brownie points thus reducing his jail time by his great cooperation with the court, however, the fact is the courts recommendation of leniency based upon his cooperation, is still no guarantee of a lesser jail sentence. Maybe Flecompte didn't negotiate a very good deal after all? I figure he is facing 3-5 years realistically which I find to be sad & unjust & undeserving in & of itself, but I guess life must go on.

That must be a difficult thing for Flecompte, knowing that before the charges were filed, Flecompte was such a great undying strong supporter of the Dorean Process & now he has totally changed his view by virtue of his plea agreement, which in essence is admitting he was an "idiot" buying the theories of the Dorean Group.

I'm sure that perceived realization or forgone conclusion is very difficult for him to swallow. Also having a real interest in either possible outcomes of the trial, must be a real bag of "mixed emotion" too for him. How does he cope & who is he really betting on deep down inside? If he is betting on Kurt & Scott deep down, & at the same time agreeing & testifying that the process is a scam, that must be hard to deal with. He must think the Dorean Group winning is the longest shot in the history of oddsmaking, but what does that say of him as a Dorean Broker who before, promoted the System as a legal & ethical challenge?

mogel said...

Justice said: "Conspiracy is the easiest charge to make stick in a federal case. This law was written so vague it does require much to convict, and it was intentionally written for the purpose of an easy conviction for the gov't."
_______________________________
That must be the reason why Kurt & Scott were also charged with this too. LOL

justice7777777 said...

mogel said...
That must be the reason why Kurt & Scott were also charged with this too. LOL

Not that funny at all, moogs. Why don't you call down to your local US Dist Court and ask a prosecutor about the conspiracy law and whose favor it was written for. You might be unpleasantly surprised.

mogel said...

The term VICTIM is a source of confusion in that the UNITED STATES is the party named yet the claim arising out of USCS 18 % 1344 requires financial institutions to be victims. The indictment does not make the victim(s) clear. Also in the curative instruction in the motions in limine, it says that the UNITED STATES is the victim. (USCS 18 % 1344 requires financial institutions to be the victims. In the motion in limine, the prosecution says the UNITED STATES is the victim.

Here are the unrefutted, Facts since no evidence demonstarting or proving otherwise is sworn to on the court record:

1. The UNITED STATES is not the victim of account in the case known as CR-05-00611 WHA.

2. Under the statute, the UNITED STATES, cannot be named as a victim.

3. The UNITED STATES is not the "financial institution" of the statutue 18 % 1344

4. The financial institution is a fictional entity unto itself.

5. The financial institution as a separate entity is not under the canopy of protections by a principal-agent relationship with the UNITED STATES.

6. The UNITED STATES is not an entity identified with standing to bring suit.

7. the prosecution team, are not authorized agents of the UNITED STATES claiming to be the victim.

8. The UNITED STATES is not an entity with standing to claim a damage.

9. The financial institution as a separate entity from the UNITED STATES is not a citizen of the UNITED STATES.

10. The financial institution is subject to another jurisdiction as in a state of the union as opposed to the UNITED STATES.

11. The UNITED STATES has no equity stake in the separate financial institution.

12. The UNITED STATES is not an officer, not a member of the board, and has no vote in the operation of the financial institution.

13. The private interest of citizens are not synonymous with the public interest of the UNITED STATES absent a contract.

14. Absent a contract the UNITED STATES interest are severed from the interest of others.

15. The UNITED STATES cannot claim an interest without proof of an interest.

16. The UNITED STATES is not exempt from the tenets of law concerning notice and expression.

17. The UNITED STATES as plaintiff is not the Union of States united created by the will of the people as a republic.

18. The UNITED STATES is a corporation with private interest.

19. the UNITED STATES is not a public trust endowed with public policy.

If the UNITED STATES is not the victim, and the financial institutions cannot be the victim since no loan was extended, how did the clients become a victim in that scenario & relevant with any standing or claim in this Court case?

In light of all of this, why would any of the charged Brokers agree to compensate any clients & agree to a restitution amount to pay back since it doesn't figure in to any of their charges of conspiracy in the indictment?

mogel said...

Justice said: "This law was written so vague it DOES require much to convict....
___________________________________

Huh? Don't you mean "DOESN'T" instead of "does" unless you meant to contradict yourself or to confuse further just as the prosecution has done for the past 2 years, kind of a trademark for them.

Well Justice, you've done a fine job at confusing people, I'll give you that.

Wouldn't you think if the conspiracy law was purposely written in a confusing way, & an easy way to convict someone, are you saying the prosecution FORGOT about their built in advantage that they had, & forgot to also charge Kurt & Scott with this CONSPIRACY charge also? Is the prosecutions ineptness to FORGET TO TAKE an easy advantage of the Principals, another sloppy example of the PROSECUTIONS FILING? Or do you think that the prosecution has too much respect for Kurt & Scott, that they already knew that they wouldn't fall for that easy ploy? Which is it? I'm waiting to hear your spin on that.

mogel said...

Justice said: "Conspiracy is the easiest charge to make stick in a federal case. This law was written SO VAGUE...."
______________________________

Yea it was written in the same vagueness just like the plea agreement Flecompte signed and agreed with.

The courts have held when a law or agreement is vague or confusing, it is not generally enforceable.

The amount of restitution he agreed to pay, which is large enough,(more than he took in from clients entrance fees), WILL NOT BE LIMITED to the loss attributable to the counts in which he pled guilty.
How vague is that???????????

Don't like that, how about this vagueness: Flecompte also agree that the Court is NOT BOUND by the Sentencing Guidelines calculations shown, but the Court may conclude that a higher guideline range appies to him, (meaning more jail time or higher restitution costs), and if it does, Flecompte will not be entitled, nor will he ask to withdraw his guilty plea.

There are more examples than these, but who wants to depress a man more when he's already depressed by being beaten up so badly anyway by a bully?

Swami, what's more funny or more tragic, not knowing exactly where you stand, or only having one leg to stand on?

Who would sign and agree to something as VAGUE AS SOME OF THOSE STATEMENTS in a plea agreement?

You would think having an attorney, that at least he would demand that clarity or a negotiated contract would define all terms more accurately and precisely without having to give away almost all of your rights. I get the impression the prosecution may have said, "here's your best deal, sign here" and the attorney said, "sounds good to me." Course this deal was signed in September 2006, so Flecompte jumped ship & lost hope and faith long ago. Whatever Flecompete paid or owes for legal counsel, it's too much.

Yetter said...

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we CONSPIRE to deceive.So selective justice,conspiracy is the UNITED STATES favorite sin? That door swings both ways. Alsup and his band of merry men should use caution. I followed the trial where the UNITED STATES tried to eat one of their own with piracy, excuse me conspiracy.The judge and prosecutors of Joe Bannister used it to such relish that it became so obvious to the jurors the focus wasn't about the truth.Many of the jurors expressed extreme concern after the aquital of the behavior and motives of the UNITED STATES.Sorry about the caps notoial dissent, merely a malfunction and completly meritless.

neodimes said...

Come and see my newest Hyip at my REI blog and make some REAL money!

mogel said...

Neodimes: Yea, I went there:

www.neodemesne.com

And all I saw was things like "Hot porn", "Latinas nude", and "adult gallerys" and such....

What is that all about? Is this still Bruce's domain site & is he a girl now that has gone wild?

Maybe he's trying to improve his credibility & has decided to become more worldly? Course I don't really know what's going on there. Didn't see any HYIP though, unless porn is considered one now. Or maybe this is just Bruce's way of making things appear not as they really are. He's a master at that you know.

neonickels said...

Hey Brother,

Can you spare a dime?

neonickels said...

I loosed all my money on neo's Hyip and now I am broke.

GYHOOYA said...

justice7777777 said...
mogel said...
That must be the reason why Kurt & Scott were also charged with this too. LOL

Not that funny at all, moogs. Why don't you call down to your local US Dist Court and ask a prosecutor about the conspiracy law and whose favor it was written for. You might be unpleasantly surprised.

7:38 PM

****************************

It's very clear by your post that you see the Gov't for what they are now. The facts that you have stated here are that the law was writen in a way that would more to favor the Gov't and less towards the people is that correct?

If so then by your own admition here your saying the law you so uphold and want in waiting to convict Kurt and Scott is so unfair that know one could have the chance of a FAIR trial and that if any conviction is granted that it would have come from only law that was one sided and know one Right or Wrong could have a chance to win is that waht your saying?

It would seem that by hook or crook the one's we call naysayers here are out for nothing more that to be able to say they were right even if that means that JUSTICE IS NOT SERVED!

HOW MUCH I WISH FOR YOU TO BE AT THE HANDS OF THAT VERY SAME MIND SET AND UNFAIR PLAY SOMEDAY SO YOU CAN FEEL HOW IT FEELS TO HAVE YOUR RIGHTS TOSSED OUT AND YOUR VOICE SILENCED BY A SYSTEM OF UNJUSTICE.

iF i HAVE READ YOU CORRECTLY THAT IS.

The building blocks of the law and order must be such that are delt out without any onesidedness or it will olny cause the breakdown and colapes of the faith needed by the people to keep it running.

As with the money system that is in place is so fragile so is the legal system and only hold's it's power to keep the peace by the faith the people have in it.

If the basic is to be looked at with this hole thing and all do fairnes is given to both side's then we nmust look at this as the banks having oversteped their rights and the law in thier businessin a way as such. The bank's making loans by way of paper and noot by concideration ids their down fall here and they know it they paly the game and someione stood up to expose it for all to see. If there was some foorm of consideration on their part it would be with the risk of loss. As the bank's are so quick to say they are lending these monies and the interest rate they charge is fair do to the est. amount that they would have made from that same monie if it was'nt lent to any given person in the form of an loan. We have heard this said many time to justify the amount of interest the bank charges us which is outrages when you look at it with anfair eye.

The fact that the banks say this is what that money could earn them over the same time as the loan to us is the bullshit in the soup when it comes to the loan because there is nothing that the bank's are lending as far as money from their pocket not even if they were to carry on as before and fractionalize the amount's they have in holding would this be a fair assesment of their risk or the amount the monies would make over 30 years time because it has been broken up into 9's and there for every dollar lent is only that of .09 cents of real money being at risk the rest is all made money or better made-up monies and the only risk is something like what the Dorean group has done and that is their being exposed for the other 8 cents their lending they don't really have to lend.

So when you say that the system is stacked that my freind is the understatment of the year.

to expose and have all the cards laid to see the bank's have walked right over the intented law around how lending should be done and they know it so dose the Gov't but now what?

The Gov't has tied their hands altogether in this by siding into bed with these crooks and now that they have let this to go on for so long the banks have the power and the Gov;'t must do what ever to keep up the lie so as not to have the PEOPLE LOSE FAITH AND THE FOLLOWING PROBLEMS WE all know would be caused by that with the money system and such today.

So how hard is it to understand that the two guy's are getting the shit end of the stick and all FAIRNESS has been left by the roadside long ago when it comes to this topic and the FED's shady deal with the banks.

It's just not that hard to understand unless you have a system that is hell bent at any cost to make sure that most people in this country hav'nt a clue how the hole thing works so they may stay the lemmings that they are and the Gov't can have their crums thrown them by the banks for their part. The only time you hear or see any kind of action by the Gov't to look like their correcting some issue with the bank's ids when the banks have gone so far with their B.S. that the effect has a wide spred result and so many are exposed to be a victom of it. As we see right now with the Sub-Prime lending issue.

Tell me why is it that 90% of the people asked about the Fed REs Banks and their workings hav'nt a clue to the correct answer or anything of the sort's that take place in our money system today?

You would think that as a leading world power we would as a people be better informed by our Gov't as to just what is the real deal and how it all works. Then there would be a lot less need to spend our money on cases in the courts like this do to the fact that most would know how it worked and the banks following what was set down in the law of how it should be done. In fact the hole Fed REs bank would most likly be non exsistant as it is today if The People wer'nt fooled by the Gov't and thr truth be told clear and basic so all understood the cost of the rights they give or don't give up to outside forces and banking.


That that in a nut shell tell me if I have overlooked somthing that should point to this being a fair process and not as it is so very unfair.
unjustics77777 carry on with your brand of law and fair play it will one day bite you in the but and I only wish I could be there to see your spin on how it's only unfair to you and not the rest of the persons who have been brought under it's arm.

neodemes said...

LOL

moog is behind the times, as usual.

REI Resource moved some time back.

Duh.

neodimes said...

Come and see my newest Hyip at my REI blog and make some REAL money!


LOL. Hey, looky there, free advertising. That's where all the traffic came from suddenly.

Try to get it right, buckwheat, I never said it would work.

I'll tell you low-brows what... if you can't tell the difference between a good deal and BS - Don't click this link

I wouldn't want to see y'all hurt yourselves doing something stupid.

TTFN

WillToFight said...

Kurt

They must be talking about the "STRAWMAN" OR Copyright that they own on all citizens in the UNITED STATES. But the amount would be far greater then 2.3 million.

Boy what Suckers Farrel and Dewey are!

Fear is a strange animal!

WillToFight said...

Hey Mogel

Dewey and Farrel must and employed

Esq's or mere Enterloppers just wanting to get paid!

WillToFight said...

test

WillToFight said...

test

frivolous said...

Will, re; your "CORPORATE CITIZEN" statement, I find it fascinating how Kurt/Scott have cornered them in potentially exposing this hidden adhesion contract that most don't know about.

neonickels said...

Thanks for sparing a dime.

Now I can go back an invest in Neos Hyip where you can make REAL money!

Share the wealth!

neodimes said...

Heres your nickel, brother. Enjoy it an come spend it at my site!

mogel said...

"this loss is impossible since there are 302 statements made to the FBI from these victims that they had no loss; this total is millions less than the 7 million Farrel pled to"
__________________________________
Pertaining to the conspiracy charge:

Real loss by banks 0

Farrel's pled to a
banks loss of 7 MM

Alleged amount
indicted
by prosecution
against Farrell
originally 20.5 MM


Alleged indicted loss against Farrell is the total amount of mortgages of all Farrell's clients for his 90 clients. Farrell pled to losses that didn't EVEN EXIST ACCORDING TO THE INDICTMENT.

Course in the Federal Indictment against all Defendants, there were only a small amount of financial institutions that were originally mentioned as victims pertaining to the bank fraud charges, this number being ALSO MUCH LESS than the total amount of institutions that were involved in all of the Dorean Presentments for all the clients.

Course the clients aren't relevant in this criminal case, Farrell & Dewey were led to believe otherwise by their legal counsel.

Kurt is saying that only 11 alleged victim financial institutions are relevant now in the indictment & that potential loss that the prosecution is claiming adds up to only a few million in mortgages. Since MORE than a few million in those losses have already been claimed by Dewey & Farrell as being responsible for the banks losses, how can the prosecution charge Kurt & Scott with responsibility for anything now?

No more damages, no crime possible, & no further punishment possible, so the Judge needs to dismiss this case & charade now or he is exposing his conflicted interests.

If you plead to fantasy stuff like Farrell & Dewey, you are charged with real consequences.

Just like income tax filings. If you swear under oath you had an income, you MUST pay a tax or face consequences. It doesn't matter if it's a fact that you had NO EARNED "income" according to how income is defined according to the Supreme Court. Your signature on the tax return becomes the evidence that you owe THE IRS.

Call it trickery, deception, or B.S. by the prosecution, or whatever you like. It is what it is.

2:51 PM

mogel said...

Maximum prison sentence for 1 count of conspiracy against the UNITED STATES is 5 years

Maximum fine is $250,000

Maximum supervised release term is 3 years

Mandatory special assessment is $100

Restitution is determined by the court.

So if restitution due to the conspiracy charge against the UNITED STATES is paid by Farrell & Dewey and assuming that some or all of these restitution monies are eventually paid back to the Dorean clients as victims, then the prosecution is basically suggesting that the Dorean clients are a legal part of the UNITED STATES or have some contractual interest in the UNITED STATES or are an employee of the UNITED STATES which makes no sense to me.

However, the UNITED STATES is not the injured party in the statute that was supposedly broken, but the injured party has to be a financial institution. And the financial instituion isn't a victim due to having no loss & proving no loss. If there is no loss, there is no scam. If there is no scam, there can't be any mail or wire fraud either, so all the charges become fantasy. So where does that leave Kurt & Scott other than being imprisoned unjustly still.

justice7777777 said...

Moogie,

How much of the discovery in this case have you or anyone seen?

My guess is not any, which means the only thing you have to go by in this case is the propaganda that Johnson has put out.

Which leads to the question, how many times has Johnson been right about anything he stated since this process began?

The facts show that he has been wrong at every turn, so I can see why everyone believes all that he says.

Why did Julian run and try to fight extradition, and why did Magoon run and not come back?

Maybe because this case is not what people on the outside looking in think. This may be why Tobias and Lecompte cut deals, you think?