Friday, May 12, 2006

The Common Tader (4/26/06)

The potato is a staple in America. Hashed, mashed, scalloped, chipped, julienned, fried, baked, boiled or liquefied into vodka we are all aware of its presence. Likewise a new staple has appeared in our culture but lacks any nourishment called the commentator. They are not participators like some great writers: Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, these men commented on their experience unlike a Chris Taylor of Eastbay Express who only knows the experience of commenting. He knows nothing of the subject and had no intention of learning. He like all the others have become wordsmith of flatulence. Without the restraints of truth, reason or fact their gas is wasted energy. I love the collection of stupid opinion because I served notice long ago by TV, radio and print what I’m doing, why and what it means to the status quo these idiots enjoy. They will themselves be yesterdays news at the end of the story.

71 comments:

imbigo said...

imbigo said...

FIRE UP THE GRILLS, NOW SERVING...
1.B.B.Q. CROW
2.SMOTHERED CROW
3.FRIED CROW
4.CROW KABOOB
5.SMOKED CROW
6.CURRY CROW
7.WELL YOU GET THE MESSAGE

Hay guys does crow go good with potatoe!!!

BIG"O" 1+1+1=1

tcob247 said...

Kurt said.....

"You could not even love me and Scott as we loved you enough to subject ourselves to threat of life on you behalf."

Oh how you love us so...


"You ridiculed your only friends."

You brought that on yourself


"Despite you we have performed on a promise and blessed you."

UHH....I think people are still waiting on that one


"Your eyes and ears are not the trusted advisors you presumed."


But yours are right?


" In closing I can say that Christ has shown Himself true and reliable."

He always does, not you

"Repent now, cast away that foolish pride"


Repent for not following you?

" and follow me as I follow the Christ into the promise."

Ok David Koresh, or is it Jim Jones?

complainers suck said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
mogel said...

TCob247 said: "You ridiculed your only friends."

The Bible does say, "the Lord chastises those that He loves."

Maybe you have taken things too personally & this has locked out your ability to see other things? I think the repenting applies to the bitterness that you so often show.

Didn't David Koresh & Jim Jones both die in their unrighteous causes? Is that how you really see the fate of all of this? Are you really that pessimistic & faithlessthat in your own mind you have already orchestrated the worst & this final fate?

I don't think anyone with a dream could share their vision with you without you picking it apart & discouraging them. Am I correct?

neodemes said...

Mogel, I don't think tcob intended a direct correlation between Koresh/Jones and Kurt, i.e. death for the leaders and followers.

However,I don't think following him into a jail cell would be advisable.

Just my 2 cents.

Have a nice night.

mogel said...

Nemo said: "However,I don't think following him into a jail cell would be advisable."

What specific command by Kurt are you referring to that would accomplish that jail cell fate for me, I don't quite understand what you are saying.

What I have done & what I have stood for hasn't or can't be changed. I can't change that, nor do I want to. Doesn't that show integrity, rather than remorse of position or admittance of wrong doing?

Jesus said, "Come follow me", & oh, let's see, he was jailed too, was he not? So by your same logic, since Jesus was jailed, should I not follow him too?

Just my 3 cents worth.

Nemo: May I suggest the "curry crow" on the menu. It's much better than "I told you so." And it does go well with potatoes if you are a meat & potato man.

mogel said...

Nemo said: "Mogel, I don't think tcob intended a direct correlation between Koresh/Jones and Kurt, i.e. death for the leaders and followers."

Then, may I also suggest, it isn't a very good analogy or example that was used.

mogel said...

Nwmo: What kind of a System jails people for following their conscience anyway & against those that challenge the validity of a System? Is such a system something I should fear or respect or bow down to? Wouldn't that be like worshipping a graven image & wouldn't I be degrading myself in a sense? Is that what you want for me?

If you are for jailing people in such a situation, & teaching others to show fear towards such a System, even though they sincerely follow their conscience, aren't YOU ALSO A MODERN DAY PHARISEE? The Pharasees were pretty hip on rules that violate real character & doing whatever was necessary to keep people in line. The rules in essence become more important than anything else, more important than justice or mercy & the like.

Should I take advice from a Pharasee or from someone that probably never has ever been to jail? And you know it's bad because............

Ace said...

tcob, I have not been here for a long time. You seem to make more sense than anyone so please tell me, Has my mortgage been canceled yet? What is all this talk I saw in the previous post about a payola for us? Can I get it in gold, silver, and Budweiser? Can I stop making my mortgage payments and tell the bank to stuff it, or am I just whistling Dixie out of my sphincter? (Did I spell that right?) Ace.

newgurl said...

habakkuk said...
against the odds,
No. You don't pay taxes on a loan. But is the settlement a loan?


I asked my husband and he didnt know either, is there any tax on any settlements? anyone know?

WillToFight said...

Geopolitics, oil, ETF funds, de-hedging, supply/demand and a weak dollar
! $715 gold! ... $14.40 silver!... ! Should we expect a 10-15% market correction? ... Undervalued Gold? ... Soaring gas prices shatter consumer confidence ... Fed bumps rates to 5%, $72 oil, gold rockets 4%, Dow craters to 3-mo. low... inflation fears... Who expects $1,000+ gold? ... Pandemic experts advise owning gold... Morgan Silver dollars soar... ... NYT discovers GATA... Gold bugs aren't ! alone anymore -WSJ... Staggering gold price melt-up ahead ... U.S. Mint losing money ... Ha! ... Will rising gold/oil cause rate increases? ...

Traders impose de-facto gold standard... central bankers’ worst nightmare... !

against_the_odds said...

newgurl, the BEST way to get your questions answered is to go to the source. Call Dr. Fred as he'll be able to provide ALL the answers you seek.

408-866-8625

tcob247 said...

Ace said...
"tcob, I have not been here for a long time. You seem to make more sense than anyone"

Uhhhh, not really, just another desenting voice.

"so please tell me, Has my mortgage been canceled yet?"

You have a piece of paper typed up by Kurt that says it is. The best use for it is on the roll next to the toilet.

"What is all this talk I saw in the previous post about a payola for us?"

DR Fred has been promising that it would be paid out "any day now" for a very long time. Up to you to believe him. (remember he did jail time for fraud too)

"Can I get it in gold, silver, and Budweiser?"

I suggest you buy a lot of budweiser and drink it all at once. Then you can hallucinatte that you received the payola

"Can I stop making my mortgage payments and tell the bank to stuff it,"

Yes, you most certainly can.
(be prepared to lose your house though)


"or am I just whistling Dixie out of my sphincter? (Did I spell that right?) Ace."

Dont know about the spelling. You'll have to ask Kahooya.

As far as the act, you should contact the David Letterman show, they might be interested on using you for the stupid human tricks.

son of a prophet said...

thoughts......



david koresh was a cult leader. nonetheless, he was murdered by the govt.

just like ruby ridge, atlanta olyupics, ok city, etc.

all done to see how much govt. culd get away with, leading to 9/11, the ultimate 'lets see if we can pull it off' job

mog, are you a mormon?

you seem to know a lot about the book mormon. do mormons acknowledge the HS?

i did not think that they did, like the jehovahs witness. father and son only; no HS.

surfer said...

New gurl my understanding is that it would be taxed. You should have a good talk with a good CPA.

surfer said...

You guys all complain, But has anyone had to go toe to toe with the law. I had the state fraud invetigator in my house tell me to my face, if i continued with the group He would come back and lock me up. This is in Utah. I am still in all the way. buck up and fight like MEN.

son of a prophet said...

and supposedly ppl are dying for oil when the govt. knows that car can run on WATER!??

---------------------------



May 12, 2006 posting ... !!!! emergency posting !!!! this just in ...


tell your friends and neighbors ...


an inventor in clearwater florida has a system of injecting hydrogen into a standard automobile engine and running it ...

the process starts with WATER and by electrolysis removes the hydrogen and he then sends it through a closed rubber tube system into a standard automobile engine ...

the interesting thing is he has been producing Hummers for the US military with this technology and our worthless congress has known about this for a long time ... HMMMMM !&*&$^*( !!! ... bet that might be why we have artificially high oil prices ... maybe the oil boys know they are in the last throws of raping the public for profit ... the original source of energy of this new technology is electricity (and water) ... he runs about 100 miles on 4 ounces of water (that's about 3000 miles per gallon and the end product is pure non-polluting water) ... coupled with efficient localized power like wind and walla ... goodbye oil and electric monopolies and hello free energy for farms and truckers and many other applications not to mention you mr. john and jll q public ... i will be covering this with special announcements so keep posted ... jim mccanney

WillToFight said...

Yeah I heard about that too SOP!

newgurl said...

surfer said...
New gurl my understanding is that it would be taxed. You should have a good talk with a good CPA.

against_the_odds said...
newgurl, the BEST way to get your questions answered is to go to Call Dr. Fred


no offense against_the_odds, but dr freds credibility doesnt seem all that received on this blog.

surfer, if it is not income, then how could it be considered a tax though, thats the part I dont get, I will try and do some research and ask a CPA.

habakkuk said...

"and supposedly ppl are dying for oil when the govt. knows that car can run on WATER!??"

Thats always been on my top 10 list of things that really tick me off:(

Thanks for stirring my anger SOP..lol!

neodemes said...

Newgurl,

check out:

http://www.lawyers.com/lawyers/A~1001868~LDS/FAQ+IRS+INCOME.html

and

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Taxes/Avoidanaudit/P34102.asp

more at:

http://www.google.com/search?q=re+settlements+taxable%3F&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

Of course, its all moot unless Dorean comes through for you.

As I recall, you can be free and clear in what, 45 days? That was the original promise. Dorean is good at promising. Its the delivering they seem to fall short on.

Best of luck.

son of a prophet said...

neodimes, -nickels, -pennies, -quarters...etc...


lol

you should just change you user id to that movie name, just "show me the money"


what you constatnly say can be summed up right there.

no need to even post. just login and post a blank message, your user id will say your message everytime.....



SHOW ME THE MONEY said...

son of a prophet said...

i ask again, does anyone have access to the right hand column of these article on the KJV bible??


plese post...


http://www.cuttingedge.org/
news_updates/
newsupdates.html

habakkuk said...

newgurl said...

surfer, if it is not income, then how could it be considered a tax though,

___________________________________

I hear ya newgurl...Its frustrating that no one on this blog can answer this.

son of a prophet said...

anyone know anything aobut galleon that i read in one of the pages i regualry visit from HYIPs


moog, you might know....

www.sovereigncrusaders.com

habakkuk said...

my bad...Neo stepped up with some answers, thanks

g-unit said...

thanks neo, I will check them out

mogel said...

mog, are you a mormon?

Answer: yes.

SOP said: "you seem to know a lot about the book mormon. do mormons acknowledge the HS?"

Answer: Definitely yes. The Church of Jesus Christ's of Latter Day saints (Mormons) 1st Article of Faith: "We believe in God the Eternal Father, & in his Son Jesus Christ & in the Holy Ghost."

Leaves no room for misinterpretation there. In the New Testament it cements this truth & says: "There are 3 that bear record in Heaven." Not one, but three.
____________________________

I did not think that they did, like the jehovahs witness. father and son only; no HS.
_________________________________

Answer: Your misunderstanding. Course it's not hard to do when many believe we aren't even Christians, like Nemo has suggested in the past to me by posting articles from uninformed Ministers that are just as ignorant as he is on the subject suggesting such. It's like posting bad information about the Dorean Process. If enough bad slanted articles are written, the ininformed who don't study the issue seriously, subconsciously assume it is the truth only taking in what they've heard, with no diligent research.

I could be mistaken, but I don't believe the Jehovah Witnesses acknowledge Jesus as a God (creator of the Universe) or as the literal Son of God, the Eternal Father. My conclusion is that their faith doesn't qualifiy as being true Christians when you take out the Divinity part that Jesus possesses. I think they only acknowledge him as a good moral teacher & not as our Saviour which is really a contradiction in terms. Maybe someone who is Jehovah Witness can enlighten me or tell me the exact doctrine of belief. All I know is Jehovah Witnesses like to argue & are zealous at missionary work & that they have their own translation of their own Bible which is quite different from the King James version. How people can believe & maintain that the Bible is 100% accurate when there are many translations out there that really have different meanings is something I can't understand. Which Bible are we talking about? If the Bible was so accurate & easy to understand, you wouldn't have over 1000 Christian denominations in the world. Christians would be united in their doctrine, would they not? God is "not the author of confusion."

6:31 AM

mogel said...

Surfer: Tell the Utah State fraud investigator that if he comes back to your house without a Court warrant, & disrespects you in YOUR OWN HOME AGAIN, that you will have him locked up for tresspassing & harrassment. It's the Sheriff's responsibility to keep people like him in check anyway. Why not even file a report now against this guy so it's on the record? Bully's are a dime a dozen. We've already seen how Utah follows through with their threats.

mogel said...

SOP: I'm thinking a better name for Nemo would be "Miracle Demander". He won't believe unless a miracle is shown to him with undisputable proof. How often did Christ rebuke & put down those that would not believe unless a plain undisputable miracle was shown? But then, Jesus did MANY undisputable miracles & still it paid little towards a person's conversion in most cases. Wasn't it wicked King Herod, whom Jesus called "a fox", that summoned Jesus so that he could be entertained by a miracle by Jesus? Did Jesus perform one for such an unbeliever & WICKED MAN. Didn't Jesus say: "It is a wicked & adulterous generation that seeketh after a sign."

What did Jesus say to the Centurion who asked Christ for a blessing on his son? Christ response was "never had he seen such faith". Remember the Centurion, just said, "Jesus just say the words & I know my son will be healed, you don't have to go & visit him."

How would it be if all clients just said, "kurt said it will happen, that's all I need to know." How about if people said: "I don't need to know when or how it will happen. I just have enough trust in his integrity that his word is good enough for me, so I know he'll follow through."

Course if you don't like that name, there is always the username, "My 2 cents" for Nemo. Nemo must like that name since it's his own admission.

Or how about "Most vocal Dorean Dissenter". Other choices are "Faithless One", "Bottom of the Heap", "Baalams ass", "Bald men are beautiful", or even "Fools R us".

I never was good at picking.

mogel said...

Galleon has been around for some time. Most HYIP fail in the first year. That is always a good sign that they have been around for years now.

mogel said...

As far as the taxation issue of a judgment award, why not figure out first what the true definition of "income" really mean? Is the IRS really giving you the true legal definition of income when they suggest almost all income streams are taxable or who a Taxpayer really is? I submit that they do not give you the 100% truth.

Wages aren't even suppose to be included in the definition of income based upon Supreme Court cases, but people voluntarily give away their money anyway in taxes & then swear under oath that they owe it, even if they legally don't. Voluntary Ignorance truly is bliss.

against_the_odds said...

newgurl, are you going to let the naysayers on this blog direct how you think? If you want to know the answers to your questions the BEST way to get your questions answered is to call Dr. Fred. I will attest to the fact that Dr. Fred doesn't bite, but is very much helpful in answering your questions.

I'm really trying to help you get your questions answered, unless of course you are on a fishing expedition and are not really a client... ;)

408-866-8625

son of a prophet said...

mog,

you seem like a good guy, so its really difficult to bring this up, but....


i am a christian, but will plead ignorance on the mormon religion, other than i know that they live (in general) more moral than others (probalbly including me also) altho, muslims in general live more moral lives than 99% of christians do, but still are unsvaed becasue they worship the wrong god-but that is for another day.
christians worship the correct god, but do not live as zealously as muslims do. but god sees the heart and man does not, so as rightewuos as they live,its still not good enuf, without belief on yeshua.


anyway, did not joseph smith advocate polygamy?

and did he not say that any one who calls himself a prophet and is wrong even once, is a false prophet?

so he made some propehcys taht were wrong; so doesnt that make him a false prophet?

mogel said...

Last but not least of usernames to pick from for Nemo's new username is: "Wordsmith of Flatulence".

I apologize for leaving that choice out of the many popular ones voted in as the most definitive. It was totally an oversight on my part.

son of a prophet said...

moog,

are you aware of this statement by joseph smith??

--------------------------------



The Mormon prophet and founder Joseph Smith taught, "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens... We have supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see." (Teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith, page 345)

mogel said...

mog,

you seem like a good guy, so its really difficult to bring this up, but....


i am a christian, but will plead ignorance on the mormon religion, other than i know that they live (in general) more moral than others (probalbly including me also) altho, muslims in general live more moral lives than 99% of christians do, but still are unsvaed becasue they worship the wrong god-but that is for another day.
christians worship the correct god, but do not live as zealously as muslims do. but god sees the heart and man does not, so as rightewuos as they live,its still not good enuf, without belief on yeshua.
_________________________________

Answer: Yes, you must accept Jesus Christ as your mediator & Saviour. THAT IS RATHER CLEAR. Who knows though, many Muslims & non Christians eventually will accept Him in the Spirit World & will eventually have the same claim to the same blessings too if they didn't have the full opportunity to hear the gospel in this mortal life. They will accept him because their hearts are right, but only believe a certain way because they know no better. That's how fair & how merciful & patient God is.
_______________________________


anyway, did not joseph smith advocate polygamy?
_________________________________

Yes, he did & the United States made it illegal to practice it in about 1901, & threatened to financially destroy the Church & would have, so the Church stopped practicing it & still does not practice it even today. The prophet of the Church at the time claimed to have received a revelation revoking the need to practice the law of polygamy anymore. "God can revoke or command as he seeth fit". Any Churches in Utah, Colorado, or Arizona that practice it today, are "break offs" or different sects from the original Mormon Church. However, it is still accepted as a revelation in the Doctrine & Covenants. Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and many Old Testament prophets, also considered to be righteous & according to the Bible, were "just men" were also polygamists, having many wives, so God must have sanctioned this , or God lied when he said these men were "just men". Take your choice.

The doctrine is not a new doctrine or one made up by Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith didn't want to reveal or practice this revelation to the Church for a very long time, but in his own words said an angel with a sword in his hand, appeared to him & commanded him to reveal it & practice it at the peril of his life.

Needless to say, it didn't go over well with his 1st wife either. To practice polygamy it REQUIRED the consent of the 1st wife, otherwise, it wasn't practiced. Emma Smith did give her consent, but probably her heart wasn't totally into it. Like all higher laws, I think for most of the people called to do this, it wasn't righteously practiced & so there was alot of problems with it too. Only a small percentage of the Church ever practiced it also & the best people were only the ones called to do this. Most members were monogamous. The early Church was also called to practice "the law of consecration", where ALL THINGS WERE HELD IN COMMON, but the bulk of the Mormon Church failed at this also, & so they weren't financially blessed. The City of Enoch practiced this higher law & the scriptures say: "There were no poor among them". They were so righteous, God took them off this earth & translated the whole City. Imagine that. The Nephite race also practiced this law of consecration & there was peace & prosperity for 200 years the Book of Mormon says right after Jesus appeared to this people after his resurrection. Course this race was eventaully exterminated due to their unrighteousness after the 4th generation after Christ's appearance to them. The Book of Mormon explains why this happened & how we might avoid this happening today.

The point being, a law must be practiced in righteousness with the full purpose of your heart. Not always easy to do.

Joseph Smith's wife eventually left the Church & didn't go out West with Brigham Young when they came to Utah. Course she had a hard life losing many of her sons to death & the constant harassment the early Church experienced may have driven her over the edge.
___________________________________

and did he not say that any one who calls himself a prophet and is wrong even once, is a false prophet?
_______________________________

Answer: I agree with that in a sense. Although, a prophet is only a prophet when he is speaking in a prophets position, like "Thus saith the Lord". Prophets have opinions sometimes. Prophets are still imperfect men & sometimes make mistakes when they are acting in the capacity of just a man or giving an opinion. If one is in tune with the Holy Ghost, you will feel the truth when a prophesy is spoken for the Holy Spirit will reveal it to you, so the responsibility is more on you to live in such a way that you can recognize & feel the truth & be worthy of that witness.
_______________________________

so he made some propehcys taht were wrong; so doesnt that make him a false prophet?
_______________________________

Answer: I don't know what specific prophecies that you are referring to, that you believe were wrong or didn't come to pass, so it's difficult to comment. I don't believe Joseph Smith ever lied about anything or ever made any false prophecies. I don't think that was in his nature to lie or mislead. I don't believe the doctrine of polygamy was selfishly made up, & NOT originating from God, if that is what you are suggesting.

mogel said...

moog,

are you aware of this statement by joseph smith??

--------------------------------



The Mormon prophet and founder Joseph Smith taught, "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens... We have supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see." (Teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith, page 345)
__________________________________

Yes, I'm aware of that doctrine. It originated from his sermon "King Follet's discourse", Joseph Smith's greatest sermon & discourse. You should read the whole sermon to appreciate & understand what is really being said. Maybe an internet search would get this for you, or you can read it from "Deseret Books", a publishing outfit in Salt Lake City, I would imagine. I once had the full discourse in print & I have read it many times & understand it well. It is a doctrine we believe as LDS people. Another prophet said the same thing this way: "As man is, God once was, & as God is, man may become." What do sons of God become.......Gods?


It's probably regarded as the best or most fascinating doctrine out there for God to give "everthing that he hath to us, his children". Course that are stipulations & many who achieve this eventual goal. "We are heirs of Christ & it doth not yet appear what we shall be, but when he appears we shall we like Him." What do heirs become? "All things that God has will be ours too."

God is God from "everlasting to everlasting" & "is the same yesterday & forever", however, this only refers to the time when he became a God & henceforth & forever. The scriptures say, "there is none before him & none after him." Again, this refers only to OUR relationship to Him. "Thou shalt have no other Gods before Me." 1 Corinitians says that "there are Lords many & Gods many". The doctrine that the purpose of life is to become like Him is plastered all over the Bible. I realize most people think this is an unchristian doctrine, however, further serious study into it would probably change your mind & enlighten your mind. I have personally studied this doctrine extensively, however, my scriptures are out of State right now & I don't have access to all of my research. What I give you is strickly from memory.

Bottom line again, is that Joseph Smith told the truth & did not lie & this is definitely a true prophesy of truth.

I would be happy to debate this doctrine with anyone professing to be Christian.

The Book of Abraham, some scrolls translated by Joseph Smith, talks about the plurality of Gods in the Universe also. Is not God the Father, Jesus Christ & the Holy Ghost, who are 3 Gods, a plurality of Gods?

mogel said...

SOP: Jesus said, " I do nothing of myself, except what I have seen the Father do." Jesus lived a mortal life, so why is it unreasonable to think that God the Father, also experienced a mortal life at one time & grew to perfection & perfect stature. Scriptures say, Jesus grew from "grace to grace". How can Jesus or God truly understand us if they didn't experience the same mortal things, challenges, problems, death, etc. that we as mortals go through? Jesus also once said, "The Father is greater than I". Again, you can't be greater than yourself. Again, a plurality of Godhood or evidence of "polytheism".

There's a scripture in the Book of Revelations that talks about God the Father's Father. Hmmmmmm....
Another God of higher stature?

There's a scripture in Proverbs that talks about Heavenly Mother, who by all definitions is a Godess.

If there is no beginning to all of this, logically speaking, there need be no end. Time is only measured unto Man.

In the Book of Moses 1: 39, God said: "For behold this is my work & my glory to bring to pass the immortality & eternal life of man." That's what brings him happiness & fulfillment. That's his job & his work. He also showed to Moses all of his creations & worlds & said, "all of his creations are known to him & numbered unto Him."

Eternal is another title or name for God. Eternal life therefore is God's life. If you live God's life, are ye not a God? Isn't the logic there? Eternal life means more than just living forever in Heaven.

The Doctrine & Covenants Section 76 best explains this doctrine. Again, you could get these prophecies at any public library.

Again these are all issues of faith, but the scriptures are there to justify the belief.

dgwondering said...

Byron you are so far into the scam that you discredit your avowed religious beliefs. You should not only be prosecuted but the Mormons should excommunicate you for luring others into a scam.

mogel said...

For some that were disagreeable about my view on the accuracy of the Bible, I'm sure this doctrine may be even more offensive & more disagreeable to you, however, the truth is the truth, & I don't apologize for it.

Maybe I'll beat "Fruit" to the punch & say Satan was not cast out of Heaven for trying to be like God, but he was cast out of Heaven for trying to pervert the ways of God, by proposing a plan that wouldn't exalt & perfect mankind. He was a selfish glory seeker but was seeking glory in the wrong way. Satan's plan was in contradiction to the eternal plan of honoring free choice that has existed forever even before God became God. Satan's plan had no risk (force), Jesus's plan did have risk (free choice). Force & no free choice without risk, never exalts or produces character growth. Sure Satan wanted to take over God's position, but you can't do that on unrighteous terms & expect to succeed. This is an eternal law older than God himself. That is why Satan & 1/3 of the angels were cast out from Heaven because they violated eternal laws of truth by proposing a lie. This is something most Christians don't understand. To understand what I'm saying, you can read the Book of Abraham that explains this.

mogel said...

DG Wondering: Thank you so much for your opinion. I'll file it under B.S.

mogel said...

DG: The Mormon Church doesn't excommunicate based upon conscience beliefs. And at this point in time, it isn't a felony, so what basis would they excommunicate? You're not my Judge, so I could care less what you think. If ignorance was a crime, you certainly should be convicted or excommunicated from whatever faith you profess.


Obviously, you have some knowledge of some kind, otherwise, you wouldn't have made that comment. Are you LDS? You want to go toe to toe with me? Divulge some personal information yourself. Who are you? YOu have the advantage knowing my name. Or do you prefer threats under an anonymous position, oh thou courageous one?

I think you discredit yourself being on the side YOU are on, SO PISS OFF OR ANSWER MY QUESTIONS.

son of a prophet said...

mogel said....


"Yes, he did & the United States made it illegal to practice it in about 1901, & threatened to financially destroy the Church & would have..."
--------------------------------


but mog,

if you consider that js advocated polygamy, does it matter that the USA made it illegal?

in other words, if the USA did not make it illegal, then js would have continued it then.

if the founder of the church goes contrary to yeshuas teachings, how can the founder be a teacher?

much less a prophet??


im sorry, i cannot reconcile this myself.


anyway, as i do not belong to any oraganised church, as to me they are all apostate, and none teach correctly, why not just be a christian and study the bible on your own?

son of a prophet said...

mogel said...

"However, it is still accepted as a revelation in the Doctrine & Covenants. Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and many Old Testament prophets, also considered to be righteous & according to the Bible, were "just men" were also polygamists, having many wives, so God must have sanctioned this , or God lied when he said these men were "just men". Take your choice. "
---------------------------

yes mog,

but that was the OT. we now live under the NT.

they are different. god does not change, but his commandments to men on how to worship do; thats why there are no more temple sacrifices, etc.

and romans clearly states of a man having just one wife.

mog, to me joseph smith was a false prophet, plain and simple.


as far as your belief is concerned,
as i have always stated, i am nor have i ever been anyones judge. yeshua doesnt need my help. i am only to bring the truth as the HS gives it to me.


you seem like a good person, so taht is all that is allowed of me to judge. i cannot see the heart, only god can, so you are ok with me; and so is everyone else on this board, pro dg or anti dg.

spiritually doesnt recognize pro or anti dg, only believers and non-believers.

so even nemo, if he is a beleiver is ok with me. god will judge all, not me.

son of a prophet said...

btw mog,

i have been researching the private bank thing, and it seems like a good idea, but just now i have had some contacts email me that there is some kind of info going around that the prvate bank may be a scam and that hutt river province does not reconize this bank and cannot verify the licese.

could the licenst be bogus?

mogel said...

SOP: It's possible that the private banking license may be bogus. I read that the province in Australia where it is supposedly licensed is not recognized, or something like that. Not sure I understand exactly what that means. Maybe caution is the word here & wait & see how things turn out first.

mogel said...

mogel said....


"Yes, he did & the United States made it illegal to practice it in about 1901, & threatened to financially destroy the Church & would have..."
--------------------------------


but mog,

if you consider that js advocated polygamy, does it matter that the USA made it illegal?

ANSWER: THAT IS AN EXCELLENT QUESTION. THE PROPHET OF THE CHURCH SAW IN REVELATION THAT THE CHURCH WOULD HAVE BEEN DESTROYED HAD THEY HAVE CONTINUED PRACTICING IT CONTRARY TO THE U.S LAW. "The Lord commands & revokes as he sees fit." (Doctrine & Covenants).
_________________________________

in other words, if the USA did not make it illegal, then js would have continued it then.
_________________________________

ANSWER: I'VE ALWAYS WONDERED THAT MYSELF. YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND JOSEPH SMITH WAS MARTYRED IN 1844 & WASN'T AROUND ANYMORE, BRIGHAM YOUNG TOOK OVER THE REINS AFTER THAT. BRIGHAM YOUNG WAS A POLYGAMIST & HAD 28 WIVES.
___________________________

if the founder of the church goes contrary to yeshuas teachings, how can the founder be a teacher?

much less a prophet??

ANSWER: I AGREE. A TEACHER OR PROPHET CAN'T DO THAT, OTHERWISE, HE LOSES HIS POSITION & POWER. A PROPHET MUST FOLLOW THE LORD. DAVID LOST HIS POSITION & POWER THROUGH ADULTERY & MURDER, HOWEVER, HE WAS A PROPHET, MAYBE A FALLEN ONE, BUT A PROPHET NONE THE LESS FOR A LONG WHILE.


im sorry, i cannot reconcile this myself.

ANSWER: SOME THINGS ARE DIFFICULT TO RECONCILE BUT THE ANSWERS ARE OUT THERE & WE LEARN PRECEPT UPON PRECEPT & LINE UPON LINE. NOT KNOWING EVERYTHING, MAKES SOME THINGS CONFUSING TO US AT TIMES. CERTAINLY NOT A REASON TO LOSE FAITH.


anyway, as i do not belong to any oraganised church, as to me they are all apostate, and none teach correctly, why not just be a christian and study the bible on your own?

ANSWER: BECAUSE YOU NEED INSPIRED DIRECTION & APOSTLES & PROPHETS & THE POWER, AUTHORITY & KEYS THAT THEY POSSESS. GOD WORKS THROUGH AUTHORITY GIVEN TO CERTAIN MEN. UNTIL THE RESTORATION IN 1820, YOU WERE RIGHT IN SAYING THAT NONE DID TEACH CORRECTLY FOR THERE WAS AN APOSTACY OF TRUTH & A FALLING AWAY OF THE ORIGINAL CHURCH OF THE PURE & FULL TEACHINGS OF CHRIST. EARLY REFORMERS LIKE CALVIN & THE LIKE UNDERSTOOD THAT & THIS APOSTACY OF TRUTH WAS FORETOLD IN THE BIBLE ALSO. STUDING THE BIBLE ON YOUR OWN IS CERTAINLY AN EXCELLENT START & YOU HAVE CERTAINLY SCHOOLED YOURSELF IN MANY WAYS.

5:17 PM


son of a prophet said...
mogel said...

"However, it is still accepted as a revelation in the Doctrine & Covenants. Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and many Old Testament prophets, also considered to be righteous & according to the Bible, were "just men" were also polygamists, having many wives, so God must have sanctioned this , or God lied when he said these men were "just men". Take your choice. "
---------------------------

yes mog,

but that was the OT. we now live under the NT.

ANSWER: I'M NOT SO SURE THAT IS ENTIRELY TRUE. THE NEW TESTATMENT TALKS ABOUT "DOUBLE HONOR". THAT COULD REFER TO POLYGAMY IN MY BELIEF. I DON'T BELIEVE ALL THINGS WERE DONE AWAY WITH, INCLUDING POLYGAMY IN NEW TESTAMENT TIMES. MANY THINGS WERE DONE AWAY WITH THOUGH, AND THE LOWER LAW WAS REPLACED WITH THE HIGHER LAW.

I READ A BOOK ONCE THAT SAID JESUS WAS MARRIED & THE AUTHOR CLAIMED THAT HE HAD 2 WIVES: MARY MAGDALENE & MARTHA. DON'T KNOW, CAN'T PROVE IT, BUT IF TRUE, IT DOESN'T SHAKE MY FAITH.
___________________________________

they are different. god does not change, but his commandments to men on how to worship do; thats why there are no more temple sacrifices, etc.

and romans clearly states of a man having just one wife.
____________________________

ANSWER: WHY DON'T YOU QUOTE THAT VERSE ABOUT ONLY ONE WIFE FOR ME SO i CAN UNDERTAND IT IN IT'S GIVEN CONTEXT. PAUL ALSO SAID, IT IS BETTER TO BE SINGLE. OBVIOUSLY HIS VIEW, & PAUL WAS A PROPHET, GOES AGAINST THE SCRIPTURE THAT "MARRIAGE IS ORDAINED OF GOD, & WHAT GOD JOINS TOGETHER, LET NO MAN PUT ASUNDER." AND "IT ISN'T GOOD FOR MAN TO BE ALONE." PAUL PROBABLY HAD AN EVIL X & A BAD EXPERIENCE IN MARRIAGE. PAUL HAD HIS OPINIONS TOO.
__________________________________

mog, to me joseph smith was a false prophet, plain and simple.

ANSWER: MAYBE MORE STUDY & INVESTIGATION & EARNEST PRAYER MIGHT CHANGE YOUR POINT OF VIEW? I AM NOT YOUR JUDGE EITHER. IF THERE ARE FALSE PROPHETS, THAN, THERE ARE OBVIOUSLY TRUE PROPHETS. GOD DOESN'T CHANGE HOW HE INTERACTS WITH MANKIND. HE HAD PROPHETS IN OLDEN TIMES, THEY MUST EXIST TODAY. IF HE SET UP A CHURCH IN OLDEN TIMES WITH AUTHORITY TO CERTAIN MEN, THEN, IT FOLLOWS HE WOULD DO THAT IN OUR DAY TOO. "I KNOW MY SHEEP & MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE."

YOUR TASK IS TO FIND THE TRUE PROPHETS THAT GOD HAS SENT. THE HOLY GHOST WILL BE YOUR GUIDE. "SURELY THE LORD GOD WILL DO NOTHING EXCEPT HE REVEALS HIS SECRET UNTO HIS SERVANTS THE PROPHETS." (AMOS 3: 7) OBVIOUSLY BEING INFORMED IS BETTER THAN BEING IN THE DARK. i HOPE GOD CONTINUES TO BLESS YOU, BUT WE BOTH KNOW HE HAS ALREADY BLESSED YOU WITH THE KNOWLEDGE YOU ALREADY HAVE. THERE IS MORE OUT THERE FOR YOU.


as far as your belief is concerned,
as i have always stated, i am nor have i ever been anyones judge. yeshua doesnt need my help. i am only to bring the truth as the HS gives it to me.


you seem like a good person, so taht is all that is allowed of me to judge. i cannot see the heart, only god can, so you are ok with me; and so is everyone else on this board, pro dg or anti dg.

spiritually doesnt recognize pro or anti dg, only believers and non-believers.

so even nemo, if he is a beleiver is ok with me. god will judge all, not me.

ANSWER: I DISAGREE IN PART WITH THAT COMMENT, BUT RESPECT YOUR BELIEF. I THINK SPIRITUALITY IS VIOLATED IN PART IF YOU ARE DEFENDING A WRONG POSITION OR DOCTRINE OR GOING AGAINST THE WILL & PURPOSES OF GOD OR WHAT HE WANTS FOR HIS PEOPLE. PART OF ACCEPTING THE LORD IS BECOMING ONE WITH HIM. WE ALL KNOW NEMO BELIEVES IN CHRIST BASED UPON HIS HIS OWN ADMISSION, BUT "NOT ALL THAT SAY, LORD, LORD, SHALL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, BUT THEY THAT DO THE WILL OF GOD" SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT WILL IN ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE, INCLUDING THE BANKING ISSUE.

5:28 PM

provb1022 said...

Mogel,

Mogel,

Holy Spirit does not triumph the written Word of God. He is the one that inspired it. He agrees with the written Word even as He agrees with the Father, Son and doesn’t trump them. The Word of God says these 3 agree. You made the statement that the Word of God is such only if is translated correctly… Show me the translation that is incorrect out of the many that our out there except for the Jehovah Witness Bible where many major scholars take issue with some verses regarding the deity and humanity of Jesus Christ. This is a test in I John to know if the spirit is from God or not. Holy Spirit is not the “author of confusion” but neither is the Word of God where that quote comes from. It is interesting to me that Jesus never said he had a bad translation of the Word of God. He studied it without fear that he was reading a bad translation since He did not even have the originals. That is the wrong question. Jesus quoted from every book of the Old Testament except one verifying His acceptance of the Word as His Standard and putting His stamp of approval on what the Scribes and Pharisee read from themselves. The trouble with your theology is that it is very subjective. The only truth you have is yours and your HS. Which HS trumps yours or mine? Neither if we have the same Spirit. The standard of the Word of God is Truth. “Thy Word is Truth”. “Jesus is Truth”. The Holy Spirit is the “Spirit of Truth”. They all agree. I’m sticking with the 3 that agree and honor each other. I find trying to decide which verse to believe or not believe leads to confusion, which we know He is not the Author of. If He (Jesus) put His stamp of approval on the Word, that should be good enough for any believing Christian. He the Spirit of Truth will lead and guide us into all Truth. The standard is the written Word of God the Holy Bible the measuring stick.

newgurl said...

thank you all for the help, neo, and against the odds,

against the odds, I am trying to see if someone really knows the answer from someone outside of dorean with a unbias opinion. someone that really doesnt have have any reason to persuade me either way, just show me the facts. I wil look into what neo has links to. thanks both

neodemes said...

mogel says:

"Who are you? YOu have the advantage knowing my name. Or do you prefer threats under an anonymous position, oh thou courageous one?

I think you discredit yourself being on the side YOU are on, SO PISS OFF OR ANSWER MY QUESTIONS."

Ah. So, you can relate on that aspect of these discussions.

Good. We can agree on something.

neodemes said...

mogel sez:

"How would it be if all clients just said, "kurt said it will happen, that's all I need to know." How about if people said: "I don't need to know when or how it will happen. I just have enough trust in his integrity that his word is good enough for me, so I know he'll follow through.""

Why would anyone possibly want to have blind faith in Kurt? He hasn't come through with a single thing promised.

No need to go into your "isn't it possible" routine.

Its possible momkies will fly out your butt some day, but not likely...same with your scenarios.

Thanks for all the username suggestions. I'll stick with the one I have.

As far as bald goes, its genetic and part of live for some of us. It was good enough for my dad and his dad. It's never bothered me.

If you have an issue with baldness, direct it to your boy D. Scott.

Bald is beautiful?

mogel said...

Prov 10:22: I agree with what you have said. The Holy Ghost inspires the word & there is no contradiction, & all 3 of the Godhead agree, however, our interpretations often see or judge a contradiction between the word & what is being interpreted as the word. I gave you the example of Nephi to try & show my point. When in doubt of an interpretation of a doctrine, listen to the Spirit for clarification. Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough the first time.

Read the site: www.evilbible.com

I think there are apparent contradictions in the different Bible text's that are used including even mistakes in the King James version. Most will not spend the time to read over the complete internet site & ponder it. Often mistakes causes people to lose their faith; that of course is a shame. It comes from a negative point of view about the Bible, however, there are some valid points there to show contradictions or obvious mistakes. That is why modern scripture is helpful to clarify the confusion.

mogel said...

Nemo said: "Why would anyone possibly want to have blind faith in Kurt? He hasn't come through with a single thing promised."

I think your simplistic statement is not true & very unfair by the way. He has come through with many promises. That's like saying a person is totally one way or another or totally evil with no good in them. I'm a little uncomfortable with such blanket statements that seem to be all encompassing like this statement of yours. That's about as believable if I asked you to find 3 good things about Kurt & tell me all you could do is stare at me in silence & stupor of thought. And I am not an advocate of blind faith. Trust is a commodity that is earned. If you say that Kurt has not earned anything, than I take a serious & real exception to that. Faith in a person is based upon many tangible & intangible things & even one's power of discernment & feelings & many other factors that are very real. Everything is not intellectual or fact driven. YOu just choose to look at all of the negatives & accentuate them all out of proportion. That's not all bad, you serve a purpose. You cause people to evaluate their position on a deeper level.

mogel said...

Here are two good books:

"The Naked Capitalist" by W. Cleon Skousen & "The Truth in Money Book" by Theodore R. Thoren & Richard F. Warner.

Both books talk about the aims & purposes of the Federal Reserve System. The Truth of MOney explains exactly how money is "created" & it comes from a nonbias source; someone who is not peddling or believing in mortgages challenges. Both authors are much more educated than I can ever think of becoming. I don't think Judge Alsup ever read either book.

Course Dr. Skousen called the Federal Reserve a scam & he was LDS. He worked as chief of police in Salt Lake City for 10 years & even worked in the FBI & his book was a best seller in 1961. He was a religious professor for many years at B.Y.U. I even took a class from him back in the Stone Age. This book is still relevant today.

I wonder if he should be excommunicated for such a stance & I wonder if he disgraced his religious affiliation by writing such a book & exposing fraud? I think DG Wondering would think so.

mogel said...

"The refusal of King George to allow the colonies to operate on an honest, colonial money system, which freed the ordinary man from the clutches of the manipulaotrs, was PROBABLY THE PRIME CAUE OF THE REVOLUTION.

If you do not exclude them from these United States, in this Constitution, in less than 200 years our descendants will be working in the fields to furnish them substance while they shall be in the counting bonuses rubbing their hands.

I warn you gentlemen if you do not exclude them (from Government) for all time, your children will curse you in your graves."

BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
___________________________

Have the manipulators been excluded? 200 years are up. Is the American people working for their creditors?

neodemes said...

Regarding polygamy:

mogel, chances are you will have a long answer as to why the following does not rule out polygamy.

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

To be one flesh with more than one wife seems illogical to me, and, even if convoluted thinking gets one around it, consider the use of plurals and singulars in the following:

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife [see] that she reverence [her] husband.

Catch my drift?

neodemes said...

mogel sez:

"I think your simplistic statement is not true"

Well, please show me a fulfilled promise in terms of "free& clear title in 45 days". Heck, I'll even toss in extra days if you need them.

If the marketing was solely intended to get enough people into the process for a proper challenge to the backs, it by no means lends credence to the notion that Kurt has integrity. Such an action is deliberately manipulative and mis leading.

So which is it; failure to come through as advertised or a deliberate ruse?

neodemes said...

correction:

proper challenge to the banks

mogel said...

Prov 10:22 said: "It is interesting to me that Jesus never said he had a bad translation of the Word of God."

I don't find that surprising either. Course alot can happen over 2000 years. I explained what happened when I cited the verses in 1 Nephi. The original prophecies & word was well preserved in correctness in Jesus's day. That's very believable. I DON'T CONTEND WITH THAT EITHER.



I Nephi 11: 21-42:


21. And the angel said unto me; Knowest thou the meaning of the book?

22. And I said unto him: I know not.

23. And he said: Behold it proceedeth out of the mouth of a Jew. And I Nephi, behled it; and he said unto me: The book that thou beholdest is a record of the Jews, which contains the covenants of the Lord, which he hath made unto the house of Israel; and it also containeth many of the prophecioes of the holy prophets; and it is a record like unto the
engravings which are upon the plates of brass, save there are not so many; nevertheless, they contain the covenatns of the Lord, which he hath made unto the house of Israel; wherefore they are of great worth unto the Gentiles.

24. And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou has beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.

25. Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.

26. And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seeth the formation of tht great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have TAKEN AWAY FROM THE GOSPEL OF THE LAMB MANY PARTS WHICH ARE PLAIN AND MOST PRECIOUS; AND ALSO MANY COVENANTS OF THE LORD HAVE THEY TAKEN AWAY.

27. And all this have they done that they might perver the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.

28. Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.

29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters, which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of capitivity, thou seest---because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainess which is in the Lamb of God---becaue of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, AM EXCEEDING MANY DO STUMBLE, YEA, INSOMUCH THAT SATAN HATH GREAT POWER OVER THEM."

30. Nevertheless, thou beholdest that the Gentiles who have gone forth out of captivity, and have been lifted up by the power of God above all other nations, upon the face of the land which is choice above all other lands, which is the land that the Lord God hath covenanted with thy father that his seed should have for the land of their inheritance; wherefore, thou sees that the Lord God will not suffer that the Gentiles will utterly destroy the mixture of thy seed, which are among thy brethren.

31. Neither will he suffer that the Gentiles shall destroy the seed of thy brethren.

32. Neither will the Lord God suffer that the Gentiles shall forever remain in that awful state of blindness, which thou beholdest they are in, because of the plain and most precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb which have been kept back by that abominable church, whose formation thou has seen.

33. Wherefore saith the Lamb of God; I will be merciful unto the Gentiles unto the visiting of the remnant of the house of Israel in great judgment.

34. And it came to pass that the angel of the Lord spake unto me saying: Behold saith the Lamb of God, after I have visited the remant of the house of Israel---and this remnant of whom I speak of they father---wherefore, after I have visited them in judgment, and smitten them by the hand of the Gentiles, and after the Gentiles do stumble exceedingly, because of the most plain and precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb which have been kept back by that abominable church, which is the mother of harlots, saith the Lamb---I will be merciful unto the gentiles in that day, INSOMUCH THAT I WILL BRING FORTH UNTO THEM, IN mINE OWN POWER, MUCH OF MY GOSPEL, WHICH SHALL BE PLAIN AND PRECIOUS, SAITH THE LAMB.

35. For behold, saith the Lamb, I will manifest myself unto thy seed that they shall write many things which I shall minister unto them, which shall be plain and precious, and after thy seed shall be destroyed, and dwindle in unbelief, and also the seed of thy brethren, behold these things shall be hid up, to come forth unto the Gentiles, BY THE GIFT AND POWER OF THE LAMB.

36. And in them shall be written my gospel, saith the Lamb, and my rock and my salvation.

37. And blessed are they who shall seek to bring forth my Zion at that day, for they SHALL HAVE THE GIFT AND THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST; and if they endure unto the end, they shall be lifted up aat the last day, and shall be saved in the everlasting kingdom of the Lamb; and whoso shall publish peace, yea, tiding of great joy, how beautiful upon the mountains shall they be."

38. And it came to pass that I beheld the remnant of the seed of thy brethren, and also the book of the Lamb of God, which had proceeded forth from the mouth of the Jew, that it came forth from, the Gentiles unto the remant of the seed of my brethren.

39. And after it had come forth unto them I behld OTHER BOOKS, WHICH CAME FORTH BY THE POWER OF THE LAMB, FROM THE GENTILES, UNTO THEM, UNTO THE CONVINCING OF THE GENTILES AND THE REMNANT OF THE SEED OF MY BRETHREN, AND ALSO THE JEW WHO WERE SCATTERED UPON ALL THE FACE OF THE EARTH, THAT THE RECORDS OF THE PROPHETS AND OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE LAMB ARE TRUE.

40. And the angel spake unto me, saying: these last records, which thou hast seen among the Gentiles, shall establish the truth of the first, which are the twelve apostles of the Lamb, and shall make know the plain and precious things which HAVE BEEN TAKEN AWAY FROM THEM; and shall make know to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Saviour of the world; and tha all men must come unto him, or they cannot be saved."

41. And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, wherefore they both shall be established in me,; for there is one God, and one Shepherd over all the earth.

42. And the time cometh that he shall manifest himself unto all nations, both unto the Jews, and also unto the Gentiles, and after he has manifested himself unto the Jews and also unto the Gentiles, then he shall manifest himself unto the Gentiles and also unto the Jews and the last shall be first, and the first shall be last.

mogel said...

Nemo said: "Well, please show me a fulfilled promise in terms of "free& clear title in 45 days". Heck, I'll even toss in extra days if you need them."

Now in all fairness, you changed your premise. YOu said, Kurt NEVER FULFILLED ANY OF HIS PROMISES. Now you are qualifying it with a promise in terms of free & clear title.

I'm not going to play your silly games.

neodemes said...

uh-oh.

You copped out. That's not like you.

I didn't change the premise.

I chose one instance of unkept promises.

After all, this whole thing began as a marketing of mortgage elimination - a promise of free & clear title. That promise lured in a scad of believers who shelled out their cash because they believed the 100 successes story.

So, did they fail to deliver on the promise or did they intentionally mislead so as to challenge the banks in a big way?

It has to be one or the other.

mogel said...

Nemo said: "So which is it; failure to come through as advertised or a deliberate ruse?"

A loaded question. I don't appreciate loaded questions as I said previously.

"Neither" of your choices is my answer to your question. It's not a one or the other as the only possibilities to your question. Neither situation is also a possibility, is it not? Isn't a ruse a purposeful orchestrated event, knowing beforehand you are deceiving, taking advantage of one due to knowing facts which are not divulged? I don't think this was ever intentionally done at the peril of a client. Maybe you can read the intents of one's heart. If so, you are ahead of me. Or do you give me that option, as an answer. In your world, of course my answer doesn't exist, does it? That's OK, I forgive you for your paradigm. Don't take only one statement out of context and ignore all of the other marketing & other statements given. That's hardly fair & it is one of your many tricks in your bag.

The banks don't recognize the validity of the process. So does this prove it ISN'T a legitimate process? Of course not. Will they be forced to at some point. I believe so.

I recognized early on who was signing the discharge of mortgage or the deed of reconveyance. That was one of my first questions before I even ever saw the paperwork. When I saw that it wasn't the bank, but Scott H., I knew that the process could be confrontational and could be debated & fought as to the authority of this document. So I studied, "agency by estoppel". That was enough for me to accept it's validity & to justify the process among other things like the tender of the bond. There was more than one explanation to justify that the debt was no longer legally owed. I said early on it would be wise to make payments to your own escrow account, just in case the bank is confrontational with you as an insurance policy & tries to foreclose. That is well documented. Maybe even some here, remember my exact words. I guarantee to you that I said that. If you think people were led to believe that it was a cake walk, & was an automatic thing with no possible fight whatsoever & the banks were powerless to take unfair advantage of the process, I think you are the one high on drugs & misleading people. So which is it? Are you high on drugs, or are you misleading people yourself?

mogel said...

Nemo said: "I chose one instance of unkept promises."

So what!!!! WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE PRICE OF BEANS IN CHINA?

That is not what you originally aid. You said, Kurt has kept NO PROMISES. YOU ARE COPPING OUT IF YOU DENY THAT.

mogel said...

What is your definition of success? Can't a recorded document that shows clear title be argued as success or the context of what was meant or said ? That WAS delivered. Has Dorean given up in establishing or proving that this process is rock solid as to the legality & eventual success that is tangible to even skeptics like you? If dates were not met, even though well intentioned, welcome to real life in the human race.

I don't think the Dorean Principals knew in the beginning all of the exact outcomes & turns that this process has now taken from the beginning to now? Do you think they would have or could have predicted that $280,000 + would be confiscated & that the FBI would raid them & that the Courts would illegally shut them down so soon & that the press wouldn't ever have anything nice at all to say ever & that their Landlord would conspire with the FBI in their eviction? Do you think they would have predicted that they would be charged with 67 counts of Federal fraud & that the government would in fact try to make it stick or at least the appearance of doing that? Do you think they knew that they would be charged in Utah & that Utah would screw them around just to dismiss or let them go? Do you think Scott knew he would lose his family & wife over this & his house? Do you think they knew that they would be in prison for a year before any real trial happened & something of material relevance actually gets discussed? Or do you think Scott legitimately believed his discharge would stick since the bank left him alone for 2 years? Do you think Scott knew in the beginning he would be foreclosed upon? Do you think that Dorean thought that all banks would act badly & none would validate or at least attempt to answer the affidavit of truth. No, Kurt hoped that at least a few banks would at least try with the hope of getting paid double. He made that statement. By doing so, then, Kurt would have them by the balls by their affidavits of lies & something to trip them up which is very tangible. Do you think Dorean would sue 10 different banks knowing full well they couldn't win in a corrupt civil case? Do you think Kurt would have expected that his staff & some close friends would bail out on him too & break his trust? Do you think Dorean would hire a lawyer & praise him in the beginning just to have him screw up things for them & bail out not doing what was instructed to him & bail out like a scared chicken? Do you think Mr. Spielbauer would have ever taken on these cases if he knew he was going to be sanctioned & possibly disbarred? Do you think he knew he was promoting a scam? Do you think Kurt was lying when he said he wasn't truly unaware of certain cases that was used in the Alsup trial to discredit the "vapor money" theory? If Kurt has a weakness, maybe it's that he's too honest & too nice sometimes & people take advantage of his candid words & his honesty. Maybe some things even the truth could be left better unsaid to some, so wicked men don't trample all over you & take unfair advantage of your good nature & good intentions.

Hey forget the marketing for now, let's talk about what knowledge actually existed in the beginning of how all of this would play out & if anyone is suprised, shocked, or even more angry now due to events that have happened due to wrong expectations or injustices that have taken place. Let's discuss the improved dedication to this cause due to all of this crap. Hindsight is 20-20 as they say.

mogel said...

Correction: Do you think Kurt was lying when he said he WAS truly unaware of certain cases that was used in the Alsup trial to discredit the "vapor money" theory?

mogel said...

Nemo said: "To be one flesh with more than one wife seems illogical to me"

Maybe you also find the Great Intercessor Prayer of Jesus ALSO illogical when he prayed "that the world would be One also as Jesus shared a Oneness with Him."

No, I don't catch your drift.

mogel said...

Prov 10:22

Here might be an example of a mistranslation: "Thou shalt not kill."

A more accurate translation of the truth would be: "Thou shalt not murder".

Murder implies unrighteous premediated evil of the taking of a human beings without righteous cause or God's sanction. Killing could apply to not taking of animal life ever or at all, which the Bible says that animals were meant for man's use so that translation can't be correct. See the confusion even though slight that it is based only upon one word taken out of context?

mogel said...

Prov 10:22 Or maybe you believe that all Christians were meant to be vegetarians or that animal sacrifices were never commanded of the Lord in Old Testament Times. After all, he did say, "thou shalt not kill", or did he say that exactly? Oh well, so much for a good New York steak with mushrooms & for the meat & potatoe man. Can't have it, or you are violating God's words. :o) What does the Holy Spirit say?

neodemes said...

mogel,

You can sing Dorean's praises from now till doomsday. That's your right.

But, no, filing a paper that says discharge, is not a succesful mortgage elimination. Ensuing foreclosures and the necessity of continuing mortgage payments have proven that, despite your continuing series of scenarios of future events.

Kurt has said somewhere on this blog that they were not a mortgage elimination company (though clearly marketed as such, which you can try to side step, but will never go away) and that the clients were bait for their bankster snare.

Should they have been able to predict all the twists and turns? Probably not, but they shouldn't have marketed 100 success, either.

You are a good and loyal defender of your cause, though.

mogel said...

Nemo said: "Kurt has said somewhere on this blog that they were not a mortgage elimination company (though clearly marketed as such, which you can try to side step, but will never go away)

SEMANTICS IS A DIFFICULT THING TO DEBATE. DID NOT THE MARKETING COMPANIES CHANGE THE WORDS OF "MORTGAGE ELIMINATION" TO "MORTGAGE CHALLENGE" IN KEEPING WITH YOUR POLITICAL CORRECTNESS THAT YOU SO DEMAND? IF THE MARKETING COMPANIES WEREN'T TRYING TO IMPROVE ON BEING AS HONEST AS POSSIBLE, WHY CHANGE THE WORDING OR APPROACH AT ALL EVER? YOU AGREE THAT THE EXPECTATIONS DID CHANGE OVER TIME, SO IF THE MARKETING ALSO CHANGED WITH THE EXPECTED RESULTS, IS THIS NOT HONEST?