Saturday, December 09, 2006

Psalm 211

In the scripture Psalm 105 and 106 are sister text with the last verse of 104 being the true beginning of 105. What you have then in style is a praise opening and a praise ending with God’s faithfulness to His promise and a recounting of His mighty works He performed to encourage us to trust His faithfulness in 105. In 106 it starts with praise and ends with praise but the text looks at God’s faithfulness in another light. That being His faithfulness even in the midst of our unfaithfulness. II Timothy 2:13 recounts this thought, “if we are faithless, He remains faithful-for He cannot deny Himself.” I thought I would write a psalm combining these 2 styles to boast of God’s faithfulness in this situation and the preceding history. 211 is this combination.

Blessed be the Lord God
whose word is changeless
and can be trusted
from everlasting to everlasting

You called me before the
foundations of this world
and from the womb
placed courage in me

You made 13 a number
to attach my hope to
you grafted me into Manasseh
and revealed Christ to me at 13

You showed me how you were faithful
throughout history you moved hearts and nations
so that, reluctantly or willingly,
they would perform on your promises

Nowhere can a man say your word has faultered
Nowhere can a man call you a liar
Suddenly and in an instant your delivery came
surprising all the defiants

Men throughout the ages can say their trust is not vanity
God bends low to hear our prayers
and has a mighty right arm to perform
all necessary to justify His renown

Blessed be my Deliverer who has shown my eyes
wherever they should turn His reliability
Though men of ignorance try to strike fear
My heart was made steadfast by your faithful promise

I listened to these men and their golden tongues of reason
for a short season which quickly stole my joy
Even in my faithlessness you were faithful
Though I turned from your promise you did not turn

Men embraced me then as one of them
though my motives were selfish they loved me
a hero without ridicule or fault
judged by an unrighteous standard as righteous

You did not quiet Your voice
but you made it rage within me
The sin that shamed me
still found hope in your steadfast love

Finally you turned my heart from its error
and taught me the faith of Christ
who authored it and finished it in me
by the unwavering trust of your world

Even now as my enemies boast in their false wisdom
and slander the promise of your calling
I find endless strength in your faithfulness
My eyes have seen your goodness in the land of the living

Blessed be He who is unchanging, always the same
He who sent the upright record through all generations
Who sets my feet on the firm foundation
the rock of refuge, the sheltering cloud, the Christ

Glory, honor, and praise fill your temple
they are all justified and deserved
Yada Yada Yada, Hallelujah, Forever and Ever
AMEN!

27 comments:

neodemes said...

"Yada Yada Yada"

EXACTLY!

LOL

light1rae said...

Thank you for sharing Kurt I weep with joy with the hearing... for YHVH is the same yesterday, today and tommorrow. Glory praise his name forever and ever Amen! CONTINUE TO STAY THE COURSE my brother!

R&P :)

imbigo said...

God bless and keep you my friend, It was a GREAT Blessing to see you on this Thursday past!!! May our God continue to bless you as you do what HE has called you to do!

AND B-4 ANY OF YOU DECIDE TO JUDGE WHAT GOD HAS CALLED ANYONE TO DO, CHECK YOUR OWN CALLING, AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE DOING WHAT YOU WERE CALLED TO DO.

Also I have never meet anyone with the Faith that this brother has, and I do fill that OUR GOD will bless KURT and SCOTT for their faithfulness.

GOD SPEED TO YOU BOTH!!!!

BIG"O" 1+1+1=1

dgwondering said...

Faithful?

Practicing deceit is faithful?

Trying to twist perpetrating a scam into some kind of Christian mission is faithful?

It's reprehensible. You guys are completely whacked out.

god said...

"It's reprehensible. You guys are completely whacked out. "

YES... AND WE'RE LOOKING FOR MORE RECRUITS....MUUUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH!

god said...

....IF YOU ARE FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE IN OUR BANKING SYSTEM, JUDICIAL SYSTEM, AND GOVERNMENT

IF YOU ARE AGAINST JAILING THE INNOCENT

IF YOU ARE AGAINST FINANCIAL PLUNDERING THE PEOPLE OF THIS NATION.

.....THEN YOU ARE A CANDIDATE FOR OUR "CULT"

mogel said...

DG Wondering said: Faithful?
"Practicing deceit is faithful?"

LAST TIME I CHECKED THE BANKS AND LENDERS ARE STILL FAITHFULLY SAYING THEY HAVE MONEY TO LEND.

Trying to twist perpetrating a scam into some kind of Christian mission is faithful?

YOU CAN BE A FAITFUL LIAR, A FAITHFUL DECEIT. I CAN FAITHFULLY DEPEND ON YOU TO CALL ME NAMES AND YOUR FAVORITE WORD STARTS WITH AN "L". YOU MUST THINK IT'S YOUR CHRISTIAN MISSION TO CALL ME A LIAR? YOU'RE PRETTY FAITHFUL YOURSELF DEFENDING THE BANKS POSITION! THAT MUST BE YOUR CALLING & MISSION TO CONFUSE THE FACTS.

It's reprehensible. You guys are completely whacked out.

NO, "REPREHENSIBLE" IS PRETENDING TO BE A MORAL BEACON, LIKE YOU!!!! :O) COURSE I WOULDN'T SAY YOU ARE COMPLETELY REPREHENSIBLE THOUGH. I'M GOING OUT ON A LIMB IN SAYING THIS, BUT I THINK THAT "WILL ROGERS" COULD FIND SOMETHING NICE TO SAY ABOUT YOU IF HE WERE HERE. YOU SHOULD STOP USING SUCH BIG WORDS LIKE 'COMPLETELY', SUCH BIG WORDS THAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. START WITH THE SMALLER WORDS & MASTER THE MEANINGS OF THOSE FIRST. JUST A SUGGESTION! MAYBE THAT WILL HELP YOU TO REMEMBER WHAT YOU SAY. YOU'VE HAD A PROBLEM WITH THAT IN THE PAST IF YOU REMEMBER.

dgwondering said...

Byron you're still lying and making stuff up. In your mind its OK for you to break the law if you tell lies about someone and accuse them of breaking a law that doesn't exist.

So you can steal from anyone all you have to do is say they broke some law you invented.

mogel said...

Brad & Stumpy aren't through. Now that Stumpy has been declared innocent through charges being dismissed, the games will begin. I think the government pissed off the wrong people!!!! LOL
___________________________________

I have just completed an analysis of criminal charges that could be
filed against various actors involved in the criminal case against
Stumpy that has been dismissed.

> MCL 750.82. Felonious assault. (1) Except as provided in subsection
> (2), a person who assaults another person with a gun, revolver,
> pistol, knife, iron bar, club, brass knuckles, or other dangerous
> weapon without intending to commit murder or to inflict great bodily
> harm less than murder is guilty of a felony punishable by
imprisonment
> for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or
both.

On 2/25/05, a female LEO from the Wayne County Airport Police battered
Stumpy three times. (1) grabbing her chin and slamming her into a wall.
(2) throwing her to the ground. (3) grabbing her chin and slamming her
into a wall (a second time).

> MCL 750.81. Assault and battery. (1) Except as otherwise provided in
> this section, a person who assaults or assaults and batters an
> individual, if no other punishment is prescribed by law, is guilty of
> a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or
> a fine of not more than $500.00, or both.

At a pre-trial conference, the assistant county prosecutor stood over
the table from Stumpy and screamed at Stumpy, placing Stumpy in fear
that she was in imminent danger.

> MCL 750.491. Public records; removal, mutilation or destruction. Any
> person who shall wilfully carry away, mutilate or destroy any of such
> books, papers, records or any part of the same, and any person who
> shall retain and continue to hold the possession of any books, papers
> or records, or parts thereof, belonging to the aforesaid offices and
> shall refuse to deliver up such books, papers, records, or parts
> thereof to the proper officer having charge of the office to which
> such books, papers, or records belong, upon demand being made by such
> officer or, in cases of a defunct office, the Michigan historical
> commission, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by
> imprisonment in the state prison not more than 2 years or by a fine
of
> not more than $1,000.00.

Before a pre-trial conference, Stumpy asked the clerk to file a
document
into the court file. The clerk told Stumpy that the assistant county
prosecutor had possession of the court file and Stumpy gave the
document
to the prosecutor. The prosecutor took the document and threw it into
the trash can. After Stumpy went onto the record and reported the
willful destruction of the document, the court administrator retrieved
the document from the trash can. Because the prosecutor's effort to
destroy official court documents was prevented, the charge can be
modified by the "attempt" statute (MCL 750.92), to decrease the penalty
by one half.

> MCL 750.122. Threat or intimidation of witness. (3) A person shall
not
> do any of the following by threat or intimidation: (a) Discourage or
> attempt to discourage any individual from attending a present or
> future official proceeding as a witness, testifying at a present or
> future official proceeding, or giving information at a present or
> future official proceeding.
>
> (7) A person who violates this section is guilty of a crime as
> follows: (a) Except as provided in subdivisions (b) and (c), the
> person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more
> than 4 years or a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both.

The assistant county prosecutor bumped into Stumpy's mother in the
hallway and later reported that Stumpy's mother had assaulted and
battered her. A criminal charge of assault and battery was instituted.
Stumpy's mother later plead nolo contendre to the charge (because she
does not have the stomach to fight such a charge). However, this was a
bald attempt to intimidate Stumpy's mother (who was present at the
airport when the incident that gave rise to Stumpy's charges occurred)
from testifying in Stumpy's case.

> MCL 750.370. Falsely and maliciously accusing another. Falsely and
> maliciously accusing another of crime, etc.—Any person who shall
> falsely and maliciously, by word, writing, sign, or otherwise accuse,
> attribute, or impute to another the commission of any crime, felony
or
> misdemeanor, or any infamous or degrading act, or impute or attribute
> to any female a want of chastity, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

This covers the assistant county prosecutor's false charge of assault
and battery against Stumpy's mother.

> MCL 750.411a. False report of crime. (1) Except as provided in
> subsection (2), a person who intentionally makes a false report of
the
> commission of a crime, or intentionally causes a false report of the
> commission of a crime to be made, to a peace officer, police agency
of
> this state or of a local unit of government, 9-1-1 operator, or any
> other governmental employee or contractor or employee of a contractor
> who is authorized to receive reports of a crime, knowing the report
is
> false, is guilty of a crime as follows: (a) If the report is a false
> report of a misdemeanor, the person is guilty of a misdemeanor
> punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or a fine of not
> more than $500.00, or both. (b) If the report is a false report of a
> felony, the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment
> for not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or
both.

This also covers the assistant county prosecutor's false charge of
assault and battery against Stumpy's mother.

> MCL 750.425. Inciting or procuring one to commit perjury. Inciting or
> procuring one to commit perjury—Any person who shall endeavor to
> incite or procure any person to commit the crime of perjury, though
no
> perjury be committed, shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by
> imprisonment in the state prison not more than 5 years.

The assistant county prosecutor found a "witness" to the alleged
assault
and battery of the assistant county prosecutor by Stumpy's mother. A
man
who was being prosecuted for driving while license suspended had his
charge reduced to driving without a license in exchange for the false
testimony. This "witness" should also be charged with MCL 750.370 and
MCL 750.411a(1)(a).

Next, at the time that the attempted (MCL 750.92) assault on a police
officer (MCL 750.81d(1)) charge was instituted, there was another
series
of crimes. There was no basis for the charge, because it never
happened.
There is no mention of an assault on any of the police reports and the
videotape of the incident did not show that any assault had occurred.
The "source" of the information appears to be an assertion by someone
that was not even there, the attorney for the Airport Authority, who
made the accusation in his motion to dismiss our FOIA suit that Stumpy
had instituted in an effort to secure the videotape. I wonder why they
did not want to give us that tape? Maybe because it does not show
Stumpy
committed any crimes and because it shows Stumpy being assaulted by the
police.

So the Airport Authority attorney has committed MCL 750.370 and MCL
750.411a(1)(b). In the alternative, the Airport Authority attorney and
the assistant county prosecutor conspired to bring forward this false
charge.

> MCL 750.157a. Conspiracy to commit offense or legal act in illegal
> manner. Any person who conspires together with 1 or more persons to
> commit an offense prohibited by law, or to commit a legal act in an
> illegal manner is guilty of the crime of conspiracy punishable as
> provided herein: (a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b), (c) and
(d)
> if commission of the offense prohibited by law is punishable by
> imprisonment for 1 year or more, the person convicted under this
> section shall be punished by a penalty equal to that which could be
> imposed if he had been convicted of committing the crime he conspired
> to commit and in the discretion of the court an additional penalty of
> a fine of $10,000.00 may be imposed.

The next criminal in this set of transactions is the detective for the
Airport Police who signs virtually all of the criminal complaints. He
has to be able to testify under oath that he has some factual basis to
believe that an offense has occurred.

> MCL 750.423. Perjury. Definition—Any person authorized by any
statute
> of this state to take an oath, or any person of whom an oath shall be
> required by law, who shall wilfully swear falsely, in regard to any
> matter or thing, respecting which such oath is authorized or
required,
> shall be guilty of perjury, a felony, punishable by imprisonment in
> the state prison not more than 15 years.

Because the detective signs these complaints under penalty of perjury,
and because he has no evidentiary basis to believe that Stumpy
assaulted
anyone at all, based upon either the police reports or the videotape,
he
has committed perjury. Either the detective is perjuring himself or the
assistant county prosecutor is procuring his perjury (MCL 750.425).

> MCL 750.425. Inciting or procuring one to commit perjury. Inciting or
> procuring one to commit perjury—Any person who shall endeavor to
> incite or procure any person to commit the crime of perjury, though
no
> perjury be committed, shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by
> imprisonment in the state prison not more than 5 years.

Finally, the charge that was added (MCL 750.81d modified by MCL 750.92)
is a legal impossibility. Technically, an attempted battery is an
assault, and there can be no such thing as an attempt to attempt a
battery. Because of this, the charge itself was instituted contrary to
law, leaving the assistant county prosecutor subject to prosecution:

> MCL 752.11. Upholding or enforcing the law; duty of public officials.
> Any public official, appointed or elected, who is responsible for
> enforcing or upholding any law of this state and who wilfully and
> knowingly fails to uphold or enforce the law with the result that any
> person's legal rights are denied is guilty of a misdemeanor.

So, to recap:

Female LEO: 12 years; $6,000

Detective: 15 years

"Witness" to the assault by Stumpy's mother upon the assistant county
prosecutor: 93 days (twice); $1,000

Assistant county prosecutor: 93 days (thrice) plus 13 years; $18,000

Airport Authority attorney: 6 years; $12,000

Now all we have to do is to get someone to initiate the criminal
charges.

> *MCL 764.1a Complaint; allegations; swearing before magistrate or
> clerk; finding of reasonable cause; testimony; supplemental
> affidavits; basis of factual obligations; complaint alleging
violation
> of MCL 750.81 and 750.81a or corresponding ordinance; compliance with
> MCL 764.1; "dating relationship" defined.*
>
> (1) A magistrate shall issue a warrant upon presentation of a proper
> complaint alleging the commission of an offense and a finding of
> reasonable cause to believe that the individual accused in the
> complaint committed that offense. The complaint shall be sworn to
> before a magistrate or clerk.
>
> (2) The finding of reasonable cause by the magistrate may be based
> upon 1 or more of the following:
>
> (a) Factual allegations of the complainant contained in the
complaint.
>
> (b) The complainant's sworn testimony.
>
> (c) The complainant's affidavit.
>
> (d) Any supplemental sworn testimony or affidavits of other
> individuals presented by the complainant or required by the
magistrate.
>
> (3) The magistrate may require sworn testimony of the complainant or
> other individuals. Supplemental affidavits may be sworn to before an
> individual authorized by law to administer oaths. The factual
> allegations contained in the complaint, testimony,
>

Here's the court rule that implements the statute:

> MCR 6.101 The Complaint.
>
> (A) Definition and Form. A complaint is a written accusation that a
> named or described person has committed a specified criminal offense.
> The complaint must include the substance of the accusation against
the
> accused and the name and statutory citation of the offense.
> (B) Signature and Oath. The complaint must be signed and sworn to
> before a judicial officer or court clerk.
> (C) Prosecutor's Approval or Posting of Security. A complaint may not
> be filed without a prosecutor's written approval endorsed on the
> complaint or attached to it, or unless security for costs is filed
> with the court.

So, technically, Stumpy could go in and swear to a complaint before a
district court judge, a magistrate, or the clerk of the district court,
provide "security for costs," and she would not need the "prosecutor's
written approval."

So many defendants, so few recipes.

mogel said...

DG Wondering said: Byron you're still lying and making stuff up.

TALKING IN GENERAL TERMS STILL? CAN'T GET SPECIFIC?


In your mind its OK for you to break the law if you tell lies about someone and accuse them of breaking a law that doesn't exist.

WHAT LAWS HAVE I BROKEN OR THE DOREAN GROUP FOR THAT MATTER?

So you can steal from anyone all you have to do is say they broke some law you invented.

I'M NOT BEING ACCUSED OF STEALING!!! ARE YOU MAKING SOMETHING UP AS USUAL? SOME LAW, I INVENTED? I THINK YOU ARE THE ONE THAT IS SMOKING SOMETHING ILLEGAL & ARE WHACKED OUT OF YOUR MIND, & MAYBE EVEN COMPLETELY, PARDON THE BIG WORD.

neodemes said...

moogie -

nobody gives a sh!t about Stumpy.

Scroll On Past!

believerandfollower said...

who is stumpy and what does he/she have to do with the dorean group or this blog?

son of a prophet said...

you got me!?

i'm stumped!

son of a prophet said...

btw,

its not that guy on TV with the wooden leg, is it??

Lost my House said...

I have four children,we have been forced too live in a 2 bedroom apt,because of what the dorean group has done to us,not to mention the money lost to the group whice im sure is being used for the doreans defence.We were forced out of a beautiful ranch home on 5acers with a little over 4,000sq ft.Now the apt is a little under 800sq times are hard for us at this point and with my credit after all this process i see it getting no better in the future.Our american dream has turned into a living nightmare.We was told that this process has worked for thousands that there is nothing to worry about,i think the dorean group should of perfected the process before taken any money at all,but this wasnt the case.Im new to this blog it has taken me awhile to read some of the posts on here and im worryed the 85% of the posts on here is all garbage juat a lot of people with nothing better to do but sit on there pc and write stuff.Especially you Mr Mogel I truly hope you sleep well at night.Pic 6 people in a small 2 bedroom apt tryin to sleep its very hard,but we do have a roof over our head thank god and we almost couldnt get that with the foreclosure on my credit need to remind you of excellant credit before all this happen.Mogel sounds like you back this group a 100% Kurt and scott are safe and sound being put in prison and Im most sure they will never get out i dont care what lies you make up,but if i was you i couldnt sleep at all knowing what has happen to all the people that lost their homes.Id always haft to watch my back,cause im sure your being watched infact i know for sure you are.Be carefull my friend and dont want to see anybody physically hurt over this,however im sure the dorean has messed with the wrong people and they are wanting pay back.However I sign the check so i feel im the one to blame during all this crap that has happened to my family,so i hold no grudge and thank God that i turned my life over to him many years ago,because if i didnt mr Mogel is the only one left on the outside Id start with him and work my way to the top of the scammers and everytime you took a step you would be reminded of all the people you and your dorean group has hurt.Alright im ready to hear all the negative stuff everybody has to say about my post.Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all who lost on the dorean process god someday will bless you.

mogel said...

Lost my house: Let me see if I understand your post correctly? You are SURE THAT i am being watched and hope that no one physically assaults me. You call me "my friend". You wish I sleep well at night. You say you lost your house in the dorean process. You blame no one but yourself for losing your house, but you wish that all the so called scammers are caught and that they should start with me, YOUR FRIEND? :o)

"mr Mogel is the only one left on the outside Id start with him and work my way to the top of the scammers and everytime you took a step you would be reminded of all the people you and your dorean group has hurt."

You sincerity and regards for me is only exceeded by your honesty! :o)

mogel said...

Lost my house said: "im sure the dorean has messed with the wrong people and they are wanting pay back."
_________________________________
You think this "pay back" you were speaking of had something to do with YOU losing your house?

So if you think "they should work their way to the top to weed out the scammers" so to speak, do you think that might and should end OUSIDE THE DOREAN GROUP? Or do you sincerely believe that the buck stops with Kurt & that the lenders and banks are truly 100% innocent in all of this? What say ye?

mogel said...

Believer and Follower said: "who is stumpy and what does he/she have to do with the dorean group or this blog?"

Can I assume a question reflects some sort of interest and that Nemo was incorrect saying that Nobody is interested and that Nemo in his arrogance lied again?

Do you think Stumpy being falsely accused of crimes and fighting the court system for 2 years and then all charges being dismissed without a trial or penalty against her is just an oversight and a mistake or a coincidence, or just pure luck?

Do you think the prosecution falsely suppressing evidence in her case they had access to, which is a Fact, that this evidence would have allowed Stumpy to be free of all these bogus charges LONG AGO is also a coincidence, or does the prosecution often hide the truth and evidence they already have in their possession, by violating the law and principles of justice & that they often want to win at all costs even at giving up principles of FULL DISCLOSURE?

Do you honestly see no similiarities between Stumpy's case and the Dorean Group's saga now?

Do you think once Kurt & Scott go free that there will be no Civil trial against Judge Alsup, and no dues to pay so to speak, or maybe never a trial or lawsuit against other people that contributed to the Dorean Group's imprisonment, people who conspired unlawfully to perpetrate the myth that K&S are criminals?

I could go on & draw out many similiarities, do I need to?

papa_dont_preach said...

Lost my House, don't blame Mogel, it wasn't his fault you lost your house. Blame your BANK for deceiving you. When they get caught filing bogus pleadings like, "oh, the note? Yeah, I personally saw it about 2 years ago, but I can't find it right now. Here's an affidavit of lost note that I swear I have it..." …And the judge "rubber stamps" it as gospel? PLEASE!

What a friggen joke. And you want to believe the naysayer’s here on this board who support these blatant LIES as TRUTH? Once again, PLEASE!

Oh, and not to worry Lost my House, you will be compensated justly for the suffering caused by your BANK.

Did I just promote the alleged scam again naysayers? If you don't like it... You know the rest.

comebackfromfantasyland said...

sorry to hear that lost my house, but with the ppl on this blog, they do and say anything in the name of their jesus and it if it doesnt work out, they take absolutely no responsibility and it becomes your own fault for not doing your 'homework', if it should work out it is all their responsibility and they are the hero. convenient isn't it.

and thats religion for some. form it as you will.

it is unfortunate the ppl have been deceived and told 'proven' and here is another who lost their house, and bloggers will tell you to have more faith! more of that 'faith' will get you more of the same.

i truly wish you well 'lost my house'

mogel said...

As housing goes, so goes the US economy?
Researchers say that the recent housing downturn doesn't necessarily mean an end to economic growth.
By Mark Trumbull | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

Evidence keeps piling up that the housing sector, after fueling the American economy with its historic boom, is now in a recession.
Usually, housing downturns precede broader recessions in the whole economy. But this time, forecasters say that, for a range of reasons, the economy may continue on a path of growth.

Real estate's bumpy ride
Stories
11/30/06

As housing goes, so goes the US economy?

11/22/06

One path to affordable housing: You own the house, but a trust owns the land

11/07/06

As prices fall, US home buyers benefit

09/29/06

Risky mortgages threaten a squeeze

09/26/06

How long will housing slump last?

Commentary
10/02/06

Editorial: Keeping real estate real

The decline in home prices and sales volume has ripple effects, to be sure. Wednesday, the Commerce Department reported that the economy grew at a 2.2 percent annual pace in the quarter from July through September, a slower pace than earlier this year. A main reason was the slump in residential construction.

But housing and the rest of the economy may be traveling on divergent tracks. In 2001, the last time the nation was in recession, housing did well as home prices continued to climb. Now, the reverse appears to be occurring.

"Typically in the past when housing fell into a recession so did the economy," says Ed Yardeni, chief economist at Oak Associates, an investment firm in Akron, Ohio. This time, "the rest of the economy is growing quite well.... There seems to be a certain amount of resilience."

Weathering the housing slump won't necessarily be easy.

This week, the median sales price of previously owned homes took its biggest tumble ever, falling 3.5 percent in October from the level one year ago to $221,000, according to the National Association of Realtors.

The housing slump hurts the economy in several ways.

There's lower construction spending, falling purchases of appliances, paint, and other home-related goods, and a negative "wealth effect" that affects consumer spending. As home prices dip, homeowners have less equity in their homes, or less money to spend.

Of the 13 occasions when residential construction turned negative on a year-over-year basis, recessions followed 10 times, according to research by the investment firm Merrill Lynch in New York.

Several factors, though, suggest that the current housing downturn may not drag the wider economy into recession:

• It usually takes more than just a housing contraction to cause an economy-wide recession. Although construction and home sales have often preceded past recessions, some other factors - a drop in government spending on defense, a jump in oil prices - have also contributed to a wider slump.

• The Federal Reserve is learning more about what it takes to guide the economy to a "soft landing." The Fed's goal is to remove inflationary pressures from the economy while not causing a recession by squeezing the credit environment too much.

As in the past, interest-rate hikes by the Fed over the past two years have cooled the housing market. The policymakers have stopped raising rates for now, watching to see whether they can thread the needle just right. Often past efforts have failed, but most economists think the Fed will avoid causing a recession this time.

• The market for home mortgages is very different than in 1990, when the last big housing crunch occurred. Now, when people get a mortgage, the loan generally doesn't stay with the bank that originated it. Instead, loans are packaged in bundles and sold to investors who reap the stream of monthly income from homeowners.

The upshot: The housing market's risk is diffused more widely, so banks face less pressure to cut back on lending during housing downturns.

"One of the important developments on the capital markets since the mid-1980s is securitization" of loans, Mr. Yardeni says. In this housing slump, banks are still lending, and their stocks are doing well on Wall Street.

• While the housing downturn is steep, its effects on consumers may be smaller than many fear. Surging home prices have added trillions of dollars in wealth to homeowners. That won't all be wiped away by a 3.5 percent decline in home values, or even by a 10 percent decline, which some forecasters say is possible.

Moreover, any negative "wealth effect" from home values promises to be offset by rising incomes. In the current job market, with unemployment near record lows, wages are on the rise. It's hard to know how long that pattern will continue, but it will help offset the impact of home prices.

"Income is 10 times more important than wealth" as driver of the economy, says Richard Berner, US economist at the investment house Morgan Stanley in New York.

That's a key reason he expects the economy to escape a recession next year.

"This isn't bulletproof," he says.

The risks are that the housing recession could fall deeper than analysts expect, or that energy prices could spike higher again.

Oil has edged back above $60 a barrel this week, trading close to $62 Wednesday morning. That's still well below its peak of around $75 a barrel this summer.

The stock market shows little worry of recession among investors. Stock prices rebounded Wednesday despite the rise in oil prices, with the Dow Jones Industrial Average well above 12,200 in morning trading.

In a speech this week, Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke described a generally strong economy, where inflation was a greater concern for policymakers than the risk that the housing sector will put too much of a drag on economic growth.

"Although residential construction continues to sag," he said, "some indications suggest that the rate of home purchase may be stabilizing, perhaps in response to modest declines in mortgage interest rates over the past few months and lower prices in some markets."

For both new and existing homes, the pattern this year has been of sales volume declining and prices weakening - but not necessarily every month. Wednesday for example, the government reported that new-home prices rose in October even as sales fell sharply.


SOURCES: NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS, CENSUS BUREAU, DEPT. OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT/RICH CLABAUGH - STAFF

mogel said...

Comebackfromfantasy said: "if it should work out it is all their responsibility and they are the hero. convenient isn't it."
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If it should work out, then you have nothing to bitch about!! If it should work out, are you saying you know how people will feel and act in the future as if some will take all the credit as a hero? Have you forgotten that some have ALREADY given the credit to Jesus? Isn't that presumptuous on your part to judge things before they are finished? Or is it just CONVENIENT for you to say that you know how people will feel in the future? Is it your religion or your Jesus to judge people;s feelings and behaviour's that haven't even happened yet?

I agree, that's a horrible thing to tell someone to have more faith. How arrogant is that? LOL

comebackfromfantasyland said...

mogel said... are you saying you know how people will feel and act in the future


...I'm saying again, deceiving the ppl brings no good to them

Leslie Neilsen said...

Hey lostmyhouse,

Don't worry. I too lost my house in October of 2005 and do not blame anyone,understand?

I am about to close on a house in a couple of weeks. I also thought that my screwed credit would prevent me from buying a house for a long time, but these banks are so damned greedy they will loan to anyone. The whole credit scam is in place to make you think that the banks are taking a risk loaning you money based on your credit score. Pure B.S.

You just need to work a little bit and you can find what you are looking for. I purchased a foreclosed property that the bank had been sitting on for several months for about half it's market value.

So, you can piss and moan about what happened to you and stay defeated in your two room apt or you can do something about it.

BTW I spent 6 months in two bedroom house and I have seven kids. You get no sympathy from me.

neodemes said...

Yeap, look at all the pleas for more info on, Stumpy.

LOL

mogel said...

Nemo said: "Yeap, look at all the pleas for more info on, Stumpy.

LOL
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You forgot to scroll on past. You made a comment on the subject matter. Sounds like MORE interest.

mogel said...

Comebackfromfantasyland said: "Come I'm saying again, deceiving the ppl brings no good to them"
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I think there's a big difference between deception and poor communication.