Wednesday, June 20, 2007

Death Always A Surprise (06-06-07)

I’ve just heard of the death of two different people. One was the founder of Universal Trust Services Chuck Gibson. He was a great man who spent more than half of his 90 years fighting against the tyranny that was getting progressively worse during his tenure here. He was a blast for me to discuss law with because his perspective was shaped by his own experience and knowledge from teachers dispensing with 19th century experience. He had so much knowledge about the changes and development of this nation. His death came at the end of a full and accomplished life. I was saddened by my loss but also filled with joy for having known him.

The other death I heard of was the suicide of one of our client’s 19 year-old son. I can’t even fathom the devastation of an event like this. I can say my heart was wrenched with compassion. We should all lift this family in prayer. To you I say even under this heavy blow do not lose your faith. The heartache I imagine is enhanced by the many why questions. As children ourselves we will never be possessed with all the answers except Jesus. Press in even more so when you are confused. Some gifts take deep root in our souls and their loss leaves deep wounds. Jesus as God is really the only one who can honestly understand your pain and be the supply of real comfort. There is a sense of robbery I’m certain but there is no such thing in Christ. As you suffer through this partial blindness reach for the hand of Christ and walk hand in hand with Him contemporaneously through the storm. You have our vow that you are in our prayers and we are asking for your family to be lifted up and strengthened.


notorial dissent said...

Well, Kurt, I guess congratulations are in order, you can now probably add the death of an innocent to that massive blot of disgrace you call a character, and now you have something of major consequence to answer for when your time comes, and I do not think that judge will be as forgiving as Alsop will be.

mogel said...

Notarial Dissent: What is your problem? You take a simple fact that a son of a dorean client has committed suicide & you are ready to add your assumptions that somehow the client's son's death is somehow related to being a Dorean client and hence, Kurt is somehow responsible to answer for this when there is no correlation or link WHATSOEVER to believe your conclusion.

Let's look at this reasonably & rationally. If Kurt found out about this death, it is probably because the client thought high enough of Kurt and has a close enough relationship to this person in order to inform him of this event, otherwise, it's extremely unlikely this news of this death would have been known by Kurt to even report on.

In other words, the dorean client is not holding Kurt responsible for anything, only YOU ARE. You truly seem to be a hateful person & you are completely out of line here!!!

Kurt offers condolences and offers compassion for this difficult event for the parent & asks others to have this parent in their prayers & you meet this event with rash judgments & scorn & hatred. Are you really as brash & judgmental and incompassionate and inconsiderate as you come across to be? This is an all time low for you.

Obviously your character isn't forgiving at all.

Like there is any evidence that shows Judge Alsup is more forgiving than God himself or that Judge Alsup has given the Defendants the benefit of any doubts ever or that he has shown great mercy during this trial. Is 30 years to life showing mercy?

Notarial Dissent, I'm not so sure you really think about the things you post sometimes.

Maybe you're just a "retard" after all & that retardation doesn't even need to be exposed since you're doing a great job yourself all on your own by your prejudicial statements & ignorant perspective.

If you really believe the garbage what you write, aren't your words nothing more than blasphemy? And if they are, how can you know anything about God and his passions of mercy if you think man's character (Judge Alsup) is somehow greater & more merciful?

Gosh I wonder why Nemo hasn't stepped right in immediately to chastize you on these vile words out of your mouth that even questions the integrity and mercy of God himself? I assume he must condone your words, "birds of a feather" you know.

GYHOOYA said...

Let me say that my heart goes out you whom ever you are for your loss.
I will hope for a swift end to your pain and sadness.

I don't think there is anything that I or anyone could say that might lessen this painfull time for you and I am truly sorry for your loss.
My hope in posting this is
may peace find and hold you in your time of saddness.

GYHOOYA said...

As for you Notorial indesent

There are know words to discribe your thoughts and postings around this. The onlything it does show is your intent to cause trouble here no matter at what cost or no matter if it's at someone's expence.

You just might want to read your own post and think about how it better appies to yourself then any other.

At what cost are you willing to continue your quest for what end I'm not really that sure. It would seem that your just here to throw sticks and stonees no matter if these two are Right, It looks as if you would stop at nothing to help convict the innocent.

there is so much you will learn here in the near future so stay tuned pal your a piece of shit and you know it what kind rule are you playing by ? oh thts right the kind that are made as you go .

just like the banks and the Gov't throught out .

Tell me all of you neysayers what make more to the truth around this

That the big bankers have no idea about how all of the so call bad apples out there who write loans and screw thousands out of there savingas you would have people think that these big companmies with hundereds of lawyers and many other ways to see waht to next play iis could not know that there is wrong doing out here and that they help if not carry it out and gain from it's work of lies and hidden codes and such to keep all the customers from knowing the truth and there by seeing how their getting the shaft . oh sure they don't how could they with all that they have toi resurch it how would they know whats going on but myseldf only one guy can say without a doubt that there is all kindas of shit they no anout and in fact if the stoy about just afew bad apples is true then I must have got them all on my pat loan over the past 5 years cus all were out to screw me and were lieing and working it so as to make my money without do cause along with all sortd of other stuff point is they must be all right here if thee is only a few or I would have meet one by now with over 6 loans and counting in that time . you think? they just might be making so much money they don't want to change it or follow the laws in pplace to stop them you think?

maybe you don't ........................think and thats the problem .. got to be something cuase your way of thinking just don't add up and its looing like the cheats are the ones with the badges and power but will see and so will you.

the true said...

Notorial Dissent you are truly unbelievable. You only think about hurting someone when a family has just lost their son and is hurting.

To the family I would like to say how very sorry I am. I wish there was something we could say to stop the pain, but there isn't. Just know that God loves you and know that you will see him again. We will be praying for you and your family.

God bless you all, even you Notorial Dissent. I think maybe you need more of our prayers than any rest of us. I really feel sorry for you. You are a very sick person.

habakkuk said...

Notrial Dissent will probably come back to this blog as someone else and spew the same crap.....Just ignore this idiot.

peacekeeper said...

Family look to the hiils from whence your HELP comes from, Earth has no sorrow the Heaven can't heal!!!

the truth said:

"you will see him again", It pains me to say that the only way they will see him again is if they take the same way out that he did...

Please dont bash me for me statement but the same Bible that everyone on the blog is quoting say it.

truth is truth!!!!!!!

neodemes said...

peacekeeper said...
"Please dont bash me for me statement but the same Bible that everyone on the blog is quoting say it."

No bashing intended, but, please show me where your Bible says this?

Mine says that those who accept Jesus as savior are forgiven, even of murder.

While someone who commits murder to his/her self is unable to repent for that final sin, is God's Grace not big enough and Christ's blood not sufficient to cover his/her final sin?

mogel said...

Nemo said: "While someone who commits murder to his/her self is unable to repent... he can be forgiven"

Murderers and all murderers who shed innocent blood with the evil intent to do so, who know better, are sent to hell to suffer. You must repent or be able to repent, or you must suffer, it's that simple. That way, God is not only a just God, but also a merciful God. Mercy can't rob justice.

How is God forgiving murderers then if he sends them to hell? If you say that isn't true, then explain David's situation to me? If God forgave David & those like him, then certainly murderers would not go to hell. It would be done & forgotten, & over with, wouldn't it in a truly forgiven situation? Even David who killed Uriah said to the Lord & praised Him saying: "thou wilt not LEAVE my soul in hell." Thus you learn that hell is not a permanent place, & I am only speaking of the hell in the Spirit World, not the endless hell (another place) where Satan & his angels are cast into at the end of times, ALONG WITH THOSE THAT HAVE COMMITTED THE "UNPARDONABLE SIN" which the scriptures say there is no forgiveness in this life or in the life to come."

Why should someone be punished if they are indeed forgiven & deserving of being forgiven? How is that just to continue to punish if you're forgiven? Isn't that the same as punishing the innocent? Or can you say, "I forgive you honey, but get the hell out of my life, and go to hell!!!

Sorry Nemo, murderers don't fall under the mercy of the atonement. Jesus only performed the atonement & his mercy only applies to those that believe on his name & repent of their sins, otherwise, you deny the justice of God & personal responsibility for one's actions & you deny the purpose of the final judgment & personal accountability & Jesus judging us according to our works: Rev. 20: 12

You can't repent of murder, and you can't be forgiven for murder, thus you must suffer for the penalty of that sin.

Nemo, your false religion & false beliefs are giving you a perverted outlook on life, not only here, but of the next world to come & your doctrine is certainly not scriptual & your type of thinking certainly won't save you, so you're the one that is "lost".

You can't be saved in ignorance, or in believing false doctrines, nor can you know the truth & believe in falsehoods & still expect to be free.

mogel said...

Mosiah 15:11

"Behold I say unto yhou, that whosever has heard the words of the prophets, yea, ALL THE HOLY PROPHETS, who have prophesied concerning the ocming of the Lord, I say unto you, that all those who havE hearkened unto their words, and believed that the Lord would redeem his people and have looked forward to that day for a remission of their sins, I say unto you, that these ARE HIS SEED, or they are the heirs of the kingdom of God.

12. For these are they WHOSE SINS HE HAD BORNE; these are they for whom he has died, to redeem them from their transgressions. And now, are they not his seed?

Alma 11: 37,40

"And I say unto you again, that he CANNOT SAVE THEM IN THEIR SINS; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that NO UNCLEAN THING CAN INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN; therefore, how can ye be saved; except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.

40. And he shall come into the world to redeem HIS PEOPLE; and he shall take upon him the transgressions of those who believe on his name; and these are they that shall have eternal life AND SALVATION COMETH TO NONE ELSE.

mogel said...

Nemo asked: "is God's Grace not big enough and Christ's blood not sufficient to cover his/her final sin?"

Nope God's grace (atonement) isn't big enough because it wasn't intended to be. Jesus only suffered for sins that he knew would be repented of, not for all sins that would ever be committed by all people. He paid no penalties for those that went through their whole life mocking & ignorning Him & his laws. There would have been no purpose to suffer for those people. Jesus suffered no more & no less than what was needed to appease the eternal demands of justice. Jesus only suffered for HIS SEED, NOT THE DEVILS SEED.

When the atonement isn't big enough, you have to personally atone for your own sins & suffer & this will apply to many unfortunately who decide not to repent, or who lose the ability to repent due to their bad habits. Course it's all a choice.

Doctrine & Covenants 19: 15-18

"Therefore I command you to repent-repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore--how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea how hard to bear, ye know not.

For behold I God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent.

But if they would not repent they must suffer EVEN AS I.

Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to BLEED AT EVERY PORE, and to suffer both body and spirit, and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink."

Murderers & their ilk & their fate are talked about in D&C 76: 81-112

sop12 said...







mogel said...

Forgiveness might become a moot point if in order to obtain it, you must first suffer as Jesus. The atonement of Jesus was the merciful way out where a person can repent without suffering.

SOP, the problem with your conclusion is that in order to repent one must restore the damages that have been done. Mortals cannot restore a life that has been taken, only God can do this, hence it becomes unforgiveable, & hence one must suffer the consequences of that act & being in a position of not being able to fully repent.

By your one example of blaspheming the Holy Ghost you have already admitted that the atonement doesn't cover all sins ever committed by everyone, nor was it intended to do that.

Justice says you can't be forgiven if you can't fully repent. That is why consequences must follow.

The Lord sent David, the great prophet, to hell, an act of God that is hardly an indication that David was forgiven in his mortal life for his act of murder. The mercy of God is shown in that David knew he would not spent eternity there, but hell is not a vacation place. It is a place of suffering for one's sins, because mercy is nonexistant until one has "paid the uttermost farthing" as Jesus said.

It is inconsistent with reason to say "I forgive you", but I'm also going to punish you. That example is why murderers are not forgiven & not covered under the atonement.

Alma 42: 22-25

"But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed; and a repentence granted; which repentance mercy claimeth; other-wise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.

But God ceaseth not to be God, and mercy claimeth the penitent, and mercy cometh because of the atonement; and the atonement bringeth to pass the resurrection of the dead; and the resurrection of the dead bringeth back men into the presence of God; and thus they are restored into his presence, to be judged according to their works, according to the law and justice.

For behold, justice exerciseth ALL HIS DEMANDS, and also mercy CLAIMETH ALL WHICH IS HER OWN; and thus NONE but the truly penitent are saved.

What do you suppose that mercy can rob justice? I say unto you, Nay; not one whit. If so, God would cease to be God."

Alma 34: 34

Ye cannot say, when you are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this, for that same spirit which doth posssess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world."

mogel said...

SOP: All those that are worthy of going to hell have fallen from grace. David the prophet did not achieve the potential God wanted for him because he murdered innocent blood.

D&C 132: 39

"David's wives and concubines were given unto him of me by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and IN NONE OF THESE THINGS DID HE SIN against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and therefore he hath FALLEN FROM HIS EXALTATION, and received his portion, and he shall not inherit them out of the world.

Hardly an indication that the Lord forgave him in his mortal life of murder.

mogel said...

D&C 132: 27

"The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye COMMIT MURDER wherein ye shed innocent blood, AND ASSENT UNTO MY DEATH , after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter in my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.

neodemes said...

Sorry, moogie.

I had to scroll past you latest book.

You aren't qualified to answer.

No heretic is.

Nothing personal.

mogel said...

If David achieves forgiveness, it is only AFTER suffering in hell, as a Spirit in the next life, not the type of forgiveness the atonement brings, since the atonement and true repentence achieves forgiveness in this mortal life, without the need for suffering in hell.

I hope that distinction or difference is clear. That was the point I was making. One is an easy way, (a merciful way) and one is the hard way (through justice).
Who wants to do things the hard way solely on their own?

mogel said...

A heretic is one who commits heresy.

Heresy: A doctrine, principle, or set of principles AT VARIANCE with established or GENERALLY RECEIVED PRINCIPLES. Principles contrary to the established religious faith, or what is regarded as the true faith.

Nemo: What established religious faith are you referring to? True faith? Which true faith are you referring to of the over 1000 Christian denominations or sects? Were the early Reformers such as Calvin & the like correct in many of their principles? I suspect they were. There were heretics were they not?

"Straight is the gate & narrow is the way that leadeth to life eternal and FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT."

Not so sure I want to be in an agreement with the general populas on most issues. Certainly Jesus was considered a heretic or radical in his day too.

You conclusion that a heretic can never be right is truly laughable.

Course you are a crowd follower of the masses and not a leader, so I don't take your statement "personal" either so there is no need to be offended by your name calling.

neodemes said...

* The Holy Bible is the inerrant Word of God.

* We are the creation of God, our Holy Father - a triune being comprised of the three distinct persons; Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

* We are born in sin - spiritually dead and apart from the fellowship God had intended for us

* Jesus Christ - God in flesh, born of a virgin, was sent to die for our transgressions, bringing the Gift of unmerited salvation, by Grace, so that we should not perish, but have eternal life in God's presence. Furthermore, Jesus rose bodily from the dead and ascended to Heaven, where He dwells until such time that He returns bodily to judge all mankind.

"REPENT THEREFORE and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord." (Acts 3:19)

"IF WE CONFESS OUR SINS, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)

"... if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation." (Romans 10:9)

Note: Works, no matter how good, won't promote you to god of your own planet.

neodemes said...

"Straight is the gate & narrow is the way that leadeth to life eternal and FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT."

Yep. And the next verse is:

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

'nuff said.

mogel said...

Nemo: You're the champion at quoting a scripture & concluding that a particular scripture is all that God has said on a particular subject & that no clarification is needed to understand the whole subject matter. You take one fact as a premise and use it to deduce a fallacious conclusion that you consider to be factual too. The "enough said" attitude is evidence of your mentality. Or the "scroll on past" attitude.

You don't accept further revelation from anywhere other than the Bible (which on some subjects you don't even understand the smaller picture) because you think God doesn't have any more to say on the subject of salvation, or his plan, or his nature & His attributes or the mysteries of heaven.

The scriptures say that "ALL THINGS shall be revealed whether on earth or in heaven, whether there be one God or many gods" and your "enough said" attitude will never hear, consider, or learn those things because by your nature, you are very closed minded. It is so much easier for you to judge & say that you have all these things figured out, for example, you are saved and there is nothing more to consider, or that I am a "wolf in sheep's clothing" & hence I'm a heretic & heretics can never proclaim a truth on any spiritual matter. I therefore, am not of the seed of God but not even a brother, since it's inconceivable to you of the possibility that Lucifer, the son of the morning, the bright star, was once a glorified being, high in command in the pre-earth life, but his mistakes caused him to be thrown out of heaven along with 1/3 of heaven. Why is it so inconceivable that even Lucifer was once also a Son of God (in the Spirit) too? There is nothing definitive to say he wasn't & plenty of evidence to conclude he was.

If you are a betting man, you'd be wrong on those things too.

Course you've done the same thing on the Dorean Process issues from day one. You made your mind up on things long ago & you can't conceive anything other than your own paradigm you have created that it is a scam from the beginning & nothing good can come of it & that only misery & suffering is in the cards. Course not all the hands have been dealt yet & no one has seen all of the cards at this point in time.

mogel said...

1 Cor 2: 27

"But God hath chosen the FOOLISH THINGS OF THE WORLD to confound the wise; and God hath chose THE WEAK THINGS of the world to confound the things which are mighty."

One might even interchange foolish with "the insignificant".

For those that thing that Dorean can bring no good, consider this:

I Cor 2: 9-10

"But as it is written, eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the HEART OF MAN, the things of which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed them unto us by his spirit; for the Spirit searcheth ALL THINGS which God hath prepared for them that love him."

neodemes said...

1 Cor. 8

5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

mogel said...

Nemo: Why was this phrase even added or even necessary then to say: "(AS THERE BE gods many, and lords many,)"

Wouldn't the first phrase have been enough to say to be perfectly clear on the subject: "For though there be that are called gods whether in heaven or in earth"

The doctrine has been clear from the very beginning in Genesis 2: 20: And God said: Let US make man in OUR own image,....."
Why the plurality there? If there was only one God, it would read: "And I made man in MY OWN IMAGE." Or you can conclude it's just another mistake that needs modern revelation to clear up any possible misunderstanding.

It is a fact TO US, or in other words as far as we are concerned, there is but only one God that we should worship, for to do otherwise would be breaking one of the 10 commandments.

There has always been a patriarchal order or power structure in place & there has always been a Head God. As far as we are concerned, "Eloheim", one of the many names of God, literally interpreted means: "Head of the gods". Elo means God. Heim means head.

Nemo, since you don't look for intent of what is being said, you come to wrongful conclusions. You take parts of the full picture & think you understand everything that is being said.

This law or concept was even confirmed by Jesus himself & understood:

John 10: 34-36

34. "Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, I said, "Ye are gods?"

35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE BROKEN.

36. Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

In other words if such a doctrine was taught & believed, then Jesus saying he was the son of God was certainly not to be considered out of the ordinary or being blasphemy.

In other words, Nemo, this isn't a Mormon doctrine or a new doctrine. It is a doctrine from the beginning based upon the scriptures & reality & truth & even confirmed by Jesus in New Testament times too that was believed by the people.

Nemo, if your point of view is right & I am wrong, you would be able to defend everything with answers for the truth always prevails over falsehoods.

This doctrine is all over the New Testament & the Old Testament. It's nothing new.

mogel said...

Nemo: Why don't you explain this scripture:

Ephesians 4: 26:

"BE YE ANGRY, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon yur wrath."

Can you be angry and not sin? Can you be angry all day long and follow the admonition of the second part: "let not the sun go down upon your wrath"?

Isn't verse 4 completely different or the opposite from verse 31: "Let ALL bitterness, and wrath, and ANGER put away from you."

Anyone can take one scripture & pervert the full truth or meaning that is intended. You're an expert at doing that.

Until you have read & understood everything that has been written on a particular subject you can err & still not know what you are talking about.

Maybe you don't know all about salvation that you think you need to know after all?

mogel said...

First scripture: "if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

Second scripture: "Every lips shall confess and every knee shall bow and acknowledge that Jesus is the Christ."

Even the devils believe and tremble.

By taking JUST these two scriptures together & ignoring everything else that has been written on this subject, does this mean that EVERYONE IS saved then & WE ARE ALL BROTHERS & THE SEED OF GOD AFTER ALL?

If that is true, why worry about religion or works or grace or salvation or anything else?

Or am I proving my point that you can't take parts of the truth and think you know it all on a particular subject. That is exactly what you do Nemo & it causes you to err in your conclusions.

neodemes said...

Ah, I see.

I think I know it all and you do know it all.

Who woulda thunk it?


btw - I wasn't referring to you as a false prophet/wolf in sheep's clothing.

That would be your boy, Joe.

mogel said...

Nemo said: "We are born in sin"

Are children born in sin & not innocent then? Is a newly born infant therefore evil even though they came directly from God's presence?

Do you believe that children should be baptized then even before the age of accountability or understanding or is that a mockery?

I think it's better to say that all are born in a "fallen state" into a world of sin. This doesn't make us responsible or sinful or having to pay for the sins or transgression of our parents such as Adam & Eve.

mogel said...

How was Joseph Smith a "wolf in sheep's clothing?" My goodness, he died a matyr's death.

He passes all the tests of a true prophet.

What "fruits" of his, conclusively prove your conclusion, or are you again taking parts of the truth, & thinking you know the whole truth again?

neodemes said...

"He passes all the tests of a true prophet."

You seem to have a lot of time on your hands, moogie.

Refute this:
Summarized ... are about sixty prophecies of Joseph Smith which were not fulfilled

mogel said...

Nemo: You're clutching at straws.
Here is one example of the garbage you sent me to prove J.Smith was not a prophet.

PRAYERS ANSWERED: September 1830. D&C 29:6. Jesus promises the Saints that "Whatsoever ye shall ask in faith... ye shall receive." (see also D&C 132:40) Joseph Smith believed firmly in this promise (see Chron JS Mar 10, 1844)

FULFILLMENT: The prayers of the faithful Mormons, especially during the periods of conflict in Kirtland, Missouri, and Nauvoo undoubtedly included many requests for divine aid, victory over their enemies, and peace in their lands. Surely they asked for these things. But instead they were driven out and found no peace.
The Mormons received peace when they arrived in Utah. One can argue that their prayers were answered because they did receive their promised land & peace over their enemies by leaving.

Prayers are a conditional thing anyway. If one asks for the wrong thing, it isn't always granted. One can argue it was God's will for them to go westward.
A second example you gave was when Joseph Smith said that Isaiah 11 was ABOUT TO BE FULFILLED. "About" is also an ambiguous term & doesn't include a definite time period. Many things in Isaiah 11 WERE fulfilled, so I don't find his prophecy false. He did not say ALL THINGS IN ISAIAH 11 WOULD BE FULFILLED. Many things in Isaiah 11 were fulfilled in Joseph's Smith's life time.

Obviously the lamb & the lion lying down without any ire is a time in the future when the great millenium is ushered in after the 2nd coming of Christ. That is still "about" to be fulfilled too since many believe that they will see this 1000 years of peace in their lifetimes. You are arguing semantics.

I don't need to refute everyone of the many the author of this link has taken out of historical context, or has misquoted the truth, but I could comment on all 60 items if you're really interested. I've shown that 2 of the 60 are ridiculous if you consider those things proof that Joseph Smith can be dismissed as a true prophet.

I'd say you have alot of time on your hands if you thrill at reading garbage.

neodemes said...

You don't seriously think I read that, do you?

mogel said...

Nemo asked: "You don't seriously think I read that, do you?"

You mean my post, or the 60 prophecies on the link you posted?
Why would you reply to my post you haven't read my answer, or why would you post someone's link you aren't familiar with & draw your own conclusions without reading it and studying it thoroughly?

Either way, why am I not surprised?

neodemes said...

Hey, you should thank me.

I'm helping you write your book.

Consider me your muse.