Wednesday, June 13, 2007

Refreshing (05-27-07)

As creatures our origin was of the dust of this world. After the curse (the fall) this earth and the dust of it took on a certain filth. As we walk through this life in Christ our souls have been baptized, cleansed, and renewed, but our feet get a little dusty. Christ showed that there are times of refreshing needed when He washed the feet of His disciples. Today this is done with a good word given in season. Many of you have done this for Scott and I over our trial. Scott and I do this for each other all the time. Christ said to the woman at the well that a drink of the living water would quench your thirst. Christ knows how to speak a word that will instantly recalibrate us, refresh us, and remove the filth that our journey brought us. The advice given here by our retarded commentators has no refreshing within it. All it does is foment filth upon filth. Let me ask you an honest question. If God has been faithful in your refreshing do you not think He will be faithful to deliver you a victory? To me He who is faithful in the small things is faithful in the big things. I want to thank all of you for those moments when as agents of Christ you have washed the filth of this journey off our feet. Watch the retards spew filth and completely miss again the truth.


sd said...

sop10 said...
"To identify truth, one must know....."
+++++++++++++THE HS++++++++++++++

I "know" one thing and it is this -- THE HS --- (the one that I know) does not insult to gain allegence. He does not degrade to make a point. He does not speak of purity with vile and impeous language. He does not belittle to gain a following.

Congratulations are in order if you have all the answers and you always can "know" fact from fiction and truth from lies. Because if you are capable of "knowing" all truth you are certainly the exception in ths world.

Perhaps you would be kind enough to show mercy upon an uneducated mere mortal such as I. Bear with me while I toil through this life digging for the truth. Not always "knowing" and having to research for clairification of doubt.

Just call me Thomas, and show me the scars before you give up on me though.
Tis true that blessed are those who "know" through faith alone but remember that even in the cercumstance with Thomas, understanding was shown and so were the scars as proof of the TRUTH being told. I dare say that Thomas "knew" the truth, he "knew" --- THE HS --- yet because he was human (as am I), he required reassurance and evidence to satisfy his doubt.

Perhaps you have already made it to the next level, to another plane...
Meanwhile I remain grounded, sometimes struggling to "know".


sd said...

Mogel said:
SD, aren't you doing the same thing, judging & accusing & finding fault and at the same time being prone to being hurt by what others say?

Response: No I am not doing the same thing. I am trying to make a point: the point being that: Very little will be accomplished and very few will ever learn what is really going on with the system as long as inquiry and question is met with anger and insult.

You nor Kurt nor anyone else here can not and have not hurt me through your words. Words are powerful but they mean nothing if the voices speaking have no standing to the listener.
You are right about one thing, I have very little tolerance and do not need to have strong character traits because no one knows who I am except maybe the people behind bars. But, everyone on the blog knows Kurt.

Therefore credibility and honor of the speaker (Kurt) is paramount.

I already know the truth (or lack thereof) of the system. I just disagree with the method being used to teach others. (I also disagreed with some of the methods used in the Dorean Process but that cannot be changed)
Many Many others will have to accept the truth about the corruption before anything in the system will be changed.
Case and point: I know that K and S and B have not committed the crimes for which they are accused but they are still in jail, are they not?
That is because the system is corrupt and it will not change just because someone is willing to become a poster child for the cause.
And the poster child will not get any help as long as he forms his arguements as if they were the living word of God and tries to force it upon the masses as if it should be taken without question.

I can speculate what you are going to say to that, you'll say something like, Kurt needs no help, he has The Holy Spirit backing him. Well, maybe you are correct when it comes to his relationship with his maker but we are currently in Satans domain and the people/judicial system that was here 2000 years ago killed Jesus, what do you supose they are going to do to Kurt?

I see you like quoting scripture to justify your actions. I think this is a good practice and you are to be commended. I do the same sometimes, here's one for you.

Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

When negitive and spiteful things are written by the incarcerated, they send a signal to the masses that make them question his integrity. I state that again because you missed my point on the other post.

I am sure that you don't care and Kurt does not seem to care what people think, he has made that pretty evident, I just disagree with him on that point. I think that their perseption of him does matter and if the message of corruption is ever going to get out and change is ever going to take place then the mouth of the moderator needs to speak with a voice of non-reproach.
I have very rarely if ever heard an arguement from anyone from the opposing side saying anything like "the Banks are good" or "the system is OK". They can't get past the personal things. They argue crimes and criminals, they are not defending the banks they are attacking the messenger. And until the messenger quits insulting the masses, they will never hear the message.

To answer one of your questions to me about Jesus' credibility: There are two answers,
Answer number one is: YES, it did ruin his credibility at that time, it went so far as to condemn him in the eyes of his judges. Wrong as they were it was the human reaction to a heavenly act.
Answer number 2: NO, it did not ruin his credibility to me (in this current time) because I know of his mission. The people in his time and the people in his audience did not know.
I'm sure you will probably say the same is true of Kurt's position but you would be wrong. Jesus knew he had to be condemned to die if his mission was to be completed. His loss was for the greater good,
If Kurt looses his case, dies or fails in his current situation, nothing will change. There is a BIG difference.

I very strongly believe that the current system which we are slave to is wrong and needs changing but I am voicing my opinion that decent by defimation and insult will not get the job done.
To change the system, a lot of people will have to be educated and no one is going to listen as long as the so-called experts are trying to jam it down their throats while telling them they are morons for not believing or retards for voiceing opinion.

In my last post I did not give you my definition of "retard" it was my observation of Kurts use of the pharse.

I would address many more of your items but I currently have better things to do and have spent enough time beating this dead horse.

I usually sign off as sd but I think this time I'll sign as

cry baby
or maybe tarded cry baby

I would have signed "retard" but I don't think I have been promoted to that level as yet.

neodemes said...

Good answers, sd. Well thought out. Others could benefit from your example.

It's funny; hatred, filth and venom has been spewed at me since I uttered my first dissenting opinion, and neither moogster nor anyone else seemed to want to chastise the vile and cowardly offenders.

Now, why do you suppose that is?

sd said...

Oh my, I am surely in trouble now. I have been commended by someone from "the other side". I'll probably be placed with them now, right?
Funny how perception can change, isn't it?
Just a few written words and people's opinion turn 180 degrees.

Can anyone see the point?


sinner_onlysavedbygrace said...

I am a client and have been watching this blog since the beginning. I have contemplated joining in this commentary for quite some time but I know from experience, as well as reading the comments from others, that a lot is left out of the message through typing (emotions, intent, facial expressions, etc.) which can cause unintentional strife to ensue. I really still don't know why I joined this morning...perhaps to be heard or perhaps in hope to help in some small way although this seems very unrealistic. Since this is getting long I will post this message and then post my thoughts afterwards.


sop10 said...


****K is not Yeshua****

What you are looking from Yeshua, you are trying to find from K.

Stop looking to K from what you must find from the HS.

This is the problem all people have; that of trying to find from the "pastors" what only the HS can give them.

K is human; stop trying to hold him to perfection. IF he were perfect, he wouldnt be where he is today, and neither would any of us be where we are today either.

So, just let him do the job he was set out to do, and just try to do the job that YOU were set out to do; i.e., find the HS ON YOUR OWN and stop looking to others to find Him.

Everyone looks to their "pastors" to find the HS, and then after a time they find flaws. NO KIDDING!?

The flaw is in themselves looking to humans for perfection. Look to the heavenlies. Problem is they have little faith or do not want to put in the work; ie, the SUFFERING thru which the HS teaches.

So, go and do your learning, I means suffering on your own and leave the criticism (judgment) of others to God.

sinner_onlysavedbygrace said...

I will try to state this as objective and peaceable as possible. I believe K & S are fighting for truth. I believe God is involved to some degree and will accomplish His will, whatever that may be. I applaud Kurt & Scott for their strength to stand by their convictions and see it through to the end, no matter what the sacrifice or end result. I fully believe that both truly are doing their best to love the Lord, but as with all of us sometimes our flesh comes out and we still sin or do/say things we shouldn't or don't really mean to. Paul obviously struggled with this. None of us are perfect and we never will be on this earth. It seems to me that Scott is a very humble person and I sometimes struggle with Kurt's choice of words because I really can't picture Jesus talking like that and I know from experience that my mouth was one of the first things God cleaned up in me. I believe the intentions are good and the convictions run deep. I continue to pray for God's will to be done first and foremost in this matter. To Kurt and Scott(sp?) I would like to say: Please continue to humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord and continue trying to love (obey) the Lord in all things. To my fellow bloggers I would like to say the same! We are all going to give account someday for every word and deed (whether you believe it or not) before the Lord our God. May we all continue to work out our salvation each day!!


near the end said...

The problem with NEO other than fileing for "Bankruptcy"; is that he condems KURT and Scott and does not even look at the facts.

Kurt and Scott could have ran a long time ago.

Been in another country a long time ago.

If they were crooks seeking to steal money;


mogel said...

SD said: "I am sure that you don't care and Kurt does not seem to care what people think, he has made that pretty evident, I just disagree with him on that point."

Is he suppose to care about the untruths and disruptions caused by some? Wouldn't that be just a distraction from his energies to what he was called to accomplish? Isn't it a weakness to be a people pleaser TO EVERYONE & doesn't that show a lack of character of direction and purpose? Do you think someone like the person you describe, sensitive to everyone's opinion, could withstand all the pressures to date that K&S have put up with?

You also said: "if the message of corruption is ever going to get out and change is ever going to take place then the mouth of the moderator needs to speak with a voice of non-reproach."

All I can say to that is LOL. I couldn't disagree with you more. Please Mr. Bully, let my people go, and pretty please to boot. LOL
The people in power in Satans kingdom, look down on people like that & consider mercy & soft spoken words to be a character weakness & walk all over people like that.

You also said: "And until the messenger quits insulting the masses, they will never hear the message."

A good example of why I disagree with you again is the story of Jonah being sent to Ninevah to call the people to repentence. He pulled no punches in his speech & held nothing back whatsoever & it was the language the people understood, so they eventually repented.

SD, I think you are missing the point of the Dorean approach. The enemies don't need to respect the messenger or the process. We will win regardless of their respect of the presentation since we have the upper hand. The bully is cornered and has no where to go. We have put them in a position where they have to negotiate with us & that was done without the need to walk on eggshells or speak flattering words.

You want a message of non-reproach? Due to the subject matter, that is impossible. How do you trap a thief and those that support a thief as dishonorable & not cause reproach and anger? The messenger is not insulting the "masses as you say". The messenger is speaking the truth & the guilty are angry because the truth cuts to the very center or core. That is not the messenger's problem no matter how you may want to twist it.

As you say, you & I will seldom agree on anything for we both come from different perspectives & different experiences.

mogel said...

SD said: "To change the system, a lot of people will have to be educated and no one is going to listen as long as the so-called experts are..."

Again, SD, I think you've completely missed the point & purpose. "There will be a public perception and a private perception as to the success of the Dorean Process". To most, the process will look as if it was a complete failure. The process was never in & of itself alone expected to dethrown the Federal Reserve of their power.

You are like Barabas of old in Jesus's day, thinking that the Messiah was going to dethrown the Romans from political power, instead of his real mission which was to bring spiritual peace and truth and bring personal salvation to all that would listen & obey. Jesus's message of salvation had nothing to do with achieving political freedom and separtism from Rome's domination. That was Barabas's perception which he completely misunderstood. He thought that murder of Romans & their complete overthrow could only accomplish the mission he envisioned, so Christ's message of loving your enemies & a freedom from within, was completely an enigma to him, so he rejected Him.

It wouldn't have mattered the presentation because as you say, it would have gone misunderstood anyway by the masses of his day, "looking beyond the mark".

mogel said...

Nemo said: "Now, why do you suppose that is?"

Oh and you believe that no filth and venom has come out of your own mouth. Do you really want to go there?

Nemo, you are no better than the people you condemn. So what's the point of chastizing any of you?

You would only like SD, take it as some sort of character flaw anyway from the messenger.

Jesus said: "If you are not with me, you are against me." You obviously support the corrupt lending system by fighting the opposing party, so your stance alone, shows your character based upon which side you are on. You support stealing, deception & corruption by your very stance of opposing the Dorean Process & condemning it a scam.

You are nothing more than a wolf in sheep's clothing.

By the way, there's been many Dorean clients on previous boards that have chastized the so called filthe you have spoken of, so don't lie about it & say nothing has ever been said, just because you want to appear as some victim whose had their reputation hurt.

People have attacked you because they have come to know you & they simply don't like you. Even if you had been on the right side, it still wouldn't have mattered, you still would have been the butt of many jokes.

near the end said...

NEMO, DO YOU NEED A HUG ?!!!!!!!!!!

mogel said...

Sinners_onlysavedbygrace said: "I sometimes struggle with Kurt's choice of words because I really can't picture Jesus talking like that..."

Can you picture Jesus taking a whip & physically beating the moneychangers, while tables are being overturned in the temple in the commotion & all the while Jesus is calling them "thieves" & seeing Jesus's ire that they made his temple a "den of thieves".

You know this very act was never condemned by the masses of his day by the Pharasees or their ilk. They must have respected this act of Jesus showing that the Sabbath Day should be observed & that the temple shouldn't be defiled with temporal things & that stealing has no place anywhere or anytime & especially not in the House of the Lord.

I suppose Jesus could have been more thoughtful & more merciful in his presentation however. Course that's not my opinion though.

Tell me, can you picture Jesus calling Herod the King a "fox". That certainly wasn't a compliment of flattery.

Can you picture Jesus chastizing the Pharasees & scribes & attorneys of his day, when he called them "hypocrites worthy of going to hell?"

Since when is Kurt suppose to be Jesus anyway? Aren't people like you taking things a bit far by your expectations of judgments? Get over yourself.

Kurt or Scott don't have to be perfect in every way to fulfill the mission they were called to, nor should anyone point out any weaknesses that they believe they might have, because it's really quite immaterial to their purpose & mission anyway. Let God deal with such things.

To listen to what you have to say might lead someone to think that God isn't in control, and God doesn't inspire certain men for specific missions. Don't you think God knows all of what you say? Do you think He is persuaded by such things in his decisions?

I am reminded in Church history there was a Mormon apostle who was called to lead in the earlier history of the Church & be one of the special 12 witnesses of the Lord's resurrection. His name was Golden Kimball. Actually he wasn't so "golden" to some though. He was a common farmer who liked to swear alot & apparently he offended many Church members that didn't know his heart but only the weaknesses of his speech & language. He is most remembered by some by his one statement: "God can't send me to hell because I repent too damn fast".

This humble man with a huge heart may have needed to improve on his speech, but to say he never should have been called to be a special witness of Christ is tantamount to questioning the Lord's purpose & wisdom of calling him in the first place. And when you start to do that, you are on shaky gound anyway questioning the wisdom of God's annointed and his knowledge of all things from the beginning to the end.

sinner_onlysavedbygrace said...

Once again I have proven to myself that typing words opens the doors to misinterpretations, judgements, among other things. Thank you for your response Mogel and yes God is always in control!

sd said...

Mogel said: "There will be a public perception and a private perception as to the success of the Dorean Process". To most, the process will look as if it was a complete failure. The process was never in & of itself alone expected to dethrown the Federal Reserve of their power.

Well I have heard it all now. If that statement does not cover every possible outcome as a victory, then I don't know what would.
Congratulations, You can always go back to that one to cover every possible ending. I can see that you would make an excellent politician.

May I suggest: "Mogel for Pres"

Attention All, Now Hear This...
Win Lose or Draw - Dorean will have VICTORY.

All kidding aside,

I'm not trying to be judgemental or even sarcastic. but I would summize from your statement that the outcome will be a victory but only the enlightened few will be able to see it?

If that is the case, then I no longer seek enlightenment.

sd,(aka "tard")

mogel said...

Sinner said: "Scott is a very humble person and I sometimes struggle with Kurt's choice of words because I REALLY CAN'T PICTURE JESUS TALKING LIKE THAT and I know from experience that my mouth was ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS GOD CLEANED UP IN ME.

Once again I have proven to myself that typing words opens the doors to misinterpretations, JUDGMENTS, among other things."

Sinner, saved by grace: I am sure you are a wonderful and good person with great intentions, and a good heart, but I believe you opened the (door of judgment) first yourself.

I would also think if God cleaned up your speech as one of the first things he did for you, & I think that's great, that you would have less judgmentalism in that area towards anyone. Maybe I'm mistaken.

I tend to have more mercy & leniency & less judgmentalism & the ability to overlook things towards those that share my same weaknesses & sins or those sins that I have overcome, always remembering where I was, so to speak.

Course if someone is willing to go to jail for MY CAUSE & MY INTERESTS for 2 years, they can say anything they want to me and I'll still overlook the abraisive words, or the lack of a perfect delivery & promise not to be offended, because I'll only see and feel the heart of the matter anyway.

Sure, we will be judged by our words, but words alone, do not define the character of the person & I don't believe words a person uses, should be the highest measuring stick either. Passion & commitment to a worthy cause is a higher character trait to hope for than "delivery" or mere words. Can you imagine someone putting on another persons grave that the greatest thing they did in life was: "He never cursed" & for that he will be remembered forever.

Since when do words become more important to discuss than the cause & commitment itself & somehow a person's words somehow diminishes the cause or one's intentions or diminishes one's credibility?

neodemes said...

Psalm 19
14Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

neodemes said...

Titus 3

1Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

2To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

3For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

9But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

~~The Swami~~~ said...

" HUCK IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

What people with a harelip say when they get tired of fu*king with something.

lee o. wantar said...



Sunday 17 June 2007 01:45

mogel said...

SD: I suggest giving Dr. Fred your safe-mail address you set up, so you can get on Dr. Fred's mailing list for periodic updates. Maybe by doing so, you might understand the private vs. public perception of Dorean better. Again, you missed the mark I'm sorry to say. The success will be obvious to all clients.

neodemes said...

"The success will be obvious to all clients."

Just 90 more days!

mogel said...

"I do know what I don't know, is BIGGER than what I thought." :o)

sd said...

And ... ignorance is bliss
never a more true statement spoken

I wish I didn't know now, what I didn't know then. etc. etc. ...

Knowing you are a slave to the government/bankers is not as comfortable as having a dream and not knowing the finanial basis of your dream is a farce.

Knowing has done one thing for sure, it made me want less. At least if the only way to obtain it is to play the Banker's game.
How about you?

poopoo said...

When the trial? Anyone know?

lee o. wantar said...



Shepsut said...

I'm back

Really never left!

What's all the comotion about.

B.B. Give me a call, must fill you in.

To the Good Fight!

sinner_onlysavedbygrace said...

Words are extremely important. See James 3. "Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so." Also, the comparison to Jesus is because the most basic definition of a Christian is Christ-like. Therefore we should always compare ourselves to Jesus in order to become more Christ-like. My statements of Kurt and Scott were not judgements but only statements based on the fruit that is shown. You are right in that actions do speak louder than words but remember that out of the heart the mouth speaks.

Also, I find analogy of Jesus and the money changers to be apples/oranges. The money changers were supposed Godly people of that time or what we would call "Christians" today. I find a better analogy to be Jesus before Pilate and His accusers. As far as Jonah goes...after first disobeying God he finally gave in to God's will and spoke only what God told him to speak...I was unable to find swear words in this story in my version of the Bible or demeaning words. In fact Jonah was very disappointed in the result and if he had spoken his own words the result would have been different.

Just my 2 cents.


sinner_onlysavedbygrace said...

Just thought I should have posted more of the scripture to capture the context better.

"9 With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. 11 Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening? 12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Thus no spring yields both salt water and fresh."

This tells me that what proceeds out of our mouth is not only very important...but that it tells a lot about where we stand.