Saturday, June 14, 2008
Restitution (June 12, 2008)
On June 10th Scott and I were before Mr. Alsup for the last time. There was a certain joy about the finality of the experience. It was for a restitution hearing. As it turned out the restitution was set at $512,000.00 roughly. We argued for $60,000,000.00 but they would have none of it. They through out all these large numbers when they want to make us the villains but when equity comes to surface the game completely changes. I know most of you don't understand me yet but I am not playing a game. I am very serious about my role and what I had to prove to my generation of stupefied retards. I will mention one party that I want to make a particular point to. The Mckays are part of the restitution order. I do not care about that. What I do care about is you and your profession of faith. As I wrote you in the past I said silver and gold have I not but what I do have I give to you. I wanted you to share in my faith which is the faith of Christ. I apparently was not successful at inspiring you. This I regret. Now I must confess that the silver and gold part was not completely the truth. I do have the resources to fix your situation and I will not be holding it back. I must do things in a way that works well under the environment of an enemy. My petition to you is that even when the pressures of finance have been taken from you will you still be faithless? I want you so much to come to the full richness of knowing that all your fears and phobias were vanity. God was always about blessing you and you were resistant. That is the self examination tour I hope you will take at the end of the day. What I speak about is the eternal that got lost in all your worries about the cares of this world. The government will not and cannot be your savior. Not on my watch. I will be clearly the Lord. Please pay special attention to the coming announcement about pay-outs. Pray earnestly about your participation so that the devil does not deceive you out of your remedy. I am on your side and have always been. You know this but you didn't trust that still small voice. I intend to punish none of you clients for your ignorance. Your ignorance has been punishment enough. I had to go through the full gauntlet to protect you from yourselves and the enemy. I am not finished yet. I still have to deliver myself. It appears that may be after I have delivered you. After I have proven myself I hope you will be brave enough to say you're sorry and assist me in the final execution of my remedies. Even if you don't I have protected myself against your ignorance but at this time I will punish by not doing the work for you. The government can't find my money. I hid it right in front of their face. Neither can you because you chose to be as blind as the government. Scott and I were always many tiers of thinking above our procedurally bloated enemy. What the Bible says about the snares the enemy sets becomes their own is more true than you can imagine. Mr. Alsup did more to promote me than to extinguish my efforts. Actually with enemies like him who needs friends. I had hoped God would have redeemed him but it is what it is.
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550 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 550 Newer› Newest»Moogie tries really really hard not to talk about the elephant
I still think none of the Brokers intentionally believed that they were defrauding clients by their Broker position & certainly didn't believe they were defrauding the financial institutions.
Moogs, even my cat wouldn’t believe that one.
jug beans...yo name is tooo long to type anymore...from no on, i jus' gonna shoten it up a bit an put a swarthen tang' to it...fro no on, i just gonna call yo...
"juggins'"
ho da wit yo?
now, get back to wok, juggins....
Notarial Dissent said: "let’s not forget the winner here, using the mails to commit fraud and the sending of fraudulent documents through the mails."
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ALL dorean clients used the mails & courier services to send certain documents & pay fees to either their Broker or to the Dorean Group in order to sign up for the process. Many clients recorded these so called "fraudulent documents" themselves. All clients knew that their properties would be quit claimed into a trust & that these documents would be recorded & even sent through the mails because the dorean clients mailed them voluntarily & knowingly after knowing what was in them & what they signed & agreed to participate in. Does that mean clients defrauded County recorders by filing false instruments? You believe that obviously.
The prosecution argued that the trustees had no legal authority, and that the banks had no legal obligation to answer the presentment. If you believe that dung, than the client signing up the trustees to be their agents to deal with their lender, also becomes another false document which the client agreed with too that they voluntarily & knowingly mailed which in order to be consistent according to the naysayers reasoning, also becomes mail fraud too.
There was a service agreement that was signed by Brokers & clients, a quit claim deed signed into the trust, a power of attorney given to the trustees, a dissolving of the lender's power of attorney by the dorean client, (remember the lender is still holding the borrowers deposit & suppose to be holding that in good faith). The lender never returned this & because of this, the dorean client entered the process to get that back.
Or if you believe there was never a deposit held by the bank, THAT THE CLIENT PAID, through the promissory note, than CERTAINLY THIS IS A FALSE DOCUMENT & THE DOREAN CLIENT WAS A PARTICIPANT IN SIGNING THIS FALSE document & the client knew that this document was being mailed through the postal system & even agreed to such.
Also there was a document giving all financial damages over to the trustees which the client signed also. In other words, there was an agreement & expectation that clients & the Dorean Group would get paid from the process AND have their mortgages legally & properly discharged, although most people understood the process to be controversial, and those that really listened, understood that the financial institutions wouldn't be rolling over playing dead any time soon. If any part of this process is a conspiracy, by mere participation as the prosecution argued, & motivations in joining were about expectations of profit, then by the clients signing the service agreement among other documents, than this makes all clients co-conspirators too since these documents were sent through the mails too by the client for what could be argued as selfish reasons by naysayers.
If the clients didn't get what they were COMPLETELY promised, or if the clients were deceived in any way, than these documents also become fraudulent documents that were entered into by the clients which were mailed too. Is there any elements missing in what clients did also that could also be argued as mail fraud according to your point of view & what the prosecution originally argued in the criminal trial? Notarial according to the arguments you have already made, in order to be consistent, that makes all dorean clients conspirators, with no exceptions, but even the Justice Dept. doesn't accept that or they wouldn't treat most of the clients as victims. There is so much double talk here & a huge double standard!!!!!! Herein lies the dung! The fact of the matter is, that only a few were prosecuted & convicted. Or maybe you want to talk about "mens rea" here or "intent" & "purpose" and FACTS before assuming someone is a co-conspirator? Certainly those very importants element weren't even considered in the criminal trial. Even Judge Alsup said of the Dorean Group even before the trial got under way: "Worse bad faith couldn't have been shown".
My point is you can't point your fingers just at the Dorean Group for your amusement. If they are guilty, than all are guilty too that participated in any way. And according to how the prosecution argued, ignorance is no excuse for the law either, because mere participation is enough to become a conspirator which is worthy of jail time & paying back restitution. The right hand doesn't need to know what the left hand is doing.
Any clients that talk ill of the Dorean Group for whatever reasons are just pointing their fingers back at themselves, but aren't smart enough to see that. They should hope that justice is eventually served soon & be more faithful & less critical. Judge not, that ye may not be judged!
Moogie trying really really really hard not to talk about the elephant
I still think none of the Brokers intentionally believed that they were defrauding clients by their Broker position & certainly didn't believe they were defrauding the financial institutions.
Even my cat wouldn’t believe that one Moogs.
Notarial Dissent said: "Since the Dorean Group did not exist as a legal entity,..."
______________________________
Is my name, a legal entity?
And if I'm not a legal entity, can I be sued or prosecuted of a crime if I don't legally exist?
Can a legal fiction NOT RECOGNIZED be put in jail?
Question asked: So if the client settlements happen, do you admit it can no longer be called a scam, & that the convictions should be overturned?
Judge Bean says: "Client settlements?" LOL!
________________________________
I'll take that as an evasive way to not have to answer a simple question.
The presentment was just a bunch of simple questions that the lender REFUSED TO ANSWER TOO.
Afraid of the truth?
I think Scott from Vineland is capable of at least answering yes to that scenario. Am I mistaken?
Further proof that naysayers like Judge Bean are extremely prejudicial & still refuses to look at the possibilities & prefers to say it can't exist.
whats the defenition of a tragedy? A busload of attorneys crahes off a cliff and one seat is empty.
Dr. SOP:
There's not enough information or any facts whatsoever from what you quoted to come to any certain conclusions. I prefer not to spend my time reading heresay stuff or stuff that is only intended to sensationalize or to sell.
What point are you trying to make?
Are you trying to say that the Mormon Church is guilty of "money laundering"? If that is true, I would be the first one to have the government prove it by some sort of court action. Aren't churches "tax exempt". Isn't money laundering generally the act of trying to avoid paying taxes, however, if you are tax exempt, than money laundering doesn't apply, does it? If you are trying to say that the Church is involved in illegal money activities, certainly you didn't specify what that was specifically, nor did the article. I suppose the newspaper will probably end up getting sued, but not really sure. The Church purposely goes out of their way to try & stay out of controversy type of stuff, however, this is controversy, isn't it?
You should provide the proof before you quote crap or pass garbage like that on, otherwise, you just become another basher who regurgitates what he reads by passing "heresay" stuff on. This only decreases from any credibility you desire.
Why would President Bush or Cheney provide any financial money to the Mormon Church? For what purpose? Do you really think they need any government assistance or paybacks? They are already the richest per capita Christian Church. Anyone or you have proof of wrong doing? Bank accounts, etc. If that were true, don't you think it would be on the TV news too? Actually, personally I would like to see the attorneys of the Mormon Church to do something to qwell such accusations, but I suspect nothing will happen from it & this story will die.
Please spell properly. I know you know how. It's very annoying when you purposely pretend to be illiterate. It's no longer funny. It's very hard to read what you post, let alone understand what you write most of the time.
Moogs, you make a good argument.
Perhaps the clients should be charged with mail fraud, as well.
Then they can get you as both a client and a broker.
Keep digging, you may have a big enough hole for you and the elephant, yet.
LOL
Judge Bean asks: Please explain any bona fide legal theory that connects yet another scam you and Fred are promoting to further scam the 'clents' to overturning the convictions of Johnson and Heineman.
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What's the point? You can't answer a simple question!!!! You're unable to think outside the box anyway. You're much too conventional.
Besides, the appeal is based on legal doctrine or defenses to overturn the wrongful convictions. If the appeal is even heard, than you are wrong by assumption.
Just get your hands on that & read it if you are really interested. I suspect you really aren't interested or sincere enough to do that however.
A scam to further scam the clients? You lost me on that accusation. You obviously don't even know what you are talking about. I certainly don't understand what you are saying.
I like that: Putting "bonifide" & connecting it with the word, "theory": "A bonified legal theory." LOL
Is that something like an "intelligent moron?" or a "smart loser"? LOL
You're about as confusing as SOP.
If you want a legal theory, try "agency by estoppel" or reading the Dorean Group's business plan that explained this in detail & even cited references from a the law. That doctrine justifies the alleged false documents that were filed which in reality aren't false.
How about the theory that judgments have monetary value & can be sold, or assigned or hypothecated?
How about the theory that the dorean process is a "settled matter" anyway, due to the silence of the financial institutions & that an "unrebutted affidavit is considered Factual", despite the criminal convictions that were obtained by violating court procedures & laws.
Nemo said: "Perhaps the clients should be charged with mail fraud, as well.
Then they can get you as both a client and a broker."
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Perhaps they should. At least then, the clients would be more united & as a group have more power to help overturn all of the B.S. that has already transpired. There is always power in numbers & the government fears this.
But then again, by doing so, it would make the prosecution & courts look very hypocritical, wouldn't it, & expose them as the liars that they are trying to portray the clients not only as victims, but as co-conspirators at the same time.
It's kind of like the expression "bonified legal theory" if you get my drift. Black is white sometimes, but only white when I want it to be & when it's convenient for my own purposes. LOL
moogal,
carm down....what i kwoted was as you no, from the roiled despots atricle....if yo haf a cow with it, i meen a beef, then yo shud rite to stroy about his story...afta all, he rit it, not mee....
and SOP addressin' me as STOP....STOP beemed up or assendid a long time ago...i commune with stop once in a while, but he up there now....in the havens....
but if yo rember, then even stop sayed that theres no umbilical chuchs anymo...they are all encrupted...so wha the big eel????
yo bee better of if yo stink to yo arial of sexpertise..the deegee...and sop write there.....
and as far as ho i rite, i cant hep it if i am illegitmate....i never graded from hi skool....so wah do yo want frum me?
....and ass fo yo, juggins', yo beets bee prying too, ass yo gonna be goin down when yo get assended.....
anynone notice how all of a sudden, on all the blaaaahgs, that everynone is gettin' crazy?
relly...i go on tons of blogs/forums/chitrooms/bulshitin' boards/etc. and everynone is writing and talkin' crazy sh*t all of a sudden....strange.....very, very strange....it like somethins' is gonna happen.....and soooon!
.very, very strange....it like somethins' is gonna happen.....and soooon!
that rite! i amos foget!
in a cupful of days, they goona get lit up in CERN swaziland....they gonna lite up that large-scale super collusion device ann then BOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!
we all gonna be assended....the earth goonna disapair.....me, yo, juggin's, deemo, mongrel, everynone goin'......↑↑↑
opps....sorry! juggins is gong ↓↓↓
juggins...i no that yo like kink nebucanzzar...so yo cant see the ritin' on da wall...so yo can see tat yo daisys are mumbled here:
count 'em!
www.lhcountdown.com/
large scale super collusion device....the last one was in 1913 at hekyll and jekyll iceland...and yo no what they did then?
now they will try it again....
Moogie’s really, really really trying
Is my name, a legal entity?
Slight difference there Moogs, you are a NON-entity.
The Dorean Group did not exist as a legal entity, wouldn’t have protected dim and dimmer from their crimes even if it had, but it like all the rest of their nonsense, was a fraud and a fiction.
Question asked: So if the client settlements happen, do you admit it can no longer be called a scam, & that the convictions should be overturned?
There will be no settlements, there is nothing to settle with in the first place, and even if there were, it wouldn’t alter the crimes that occurred and that they were convicted of. The only way they are going to leave prison is as very old men.
after being asked a straight question Moogs reply was:
What's the point?
The point of course is that there is no bona fide legal theory, case law, or anything else that supports any of the nonsense that the dim duo were spouting, and the Moogster knows it, but will not admit it since then he would have to admit to lying to everyone else as well as himself.
Moogie’s got another dead horse to beat
Besides, the appeal is based on legal doctrine or defenses to overturn the wrongful convictions.
In order to overturn the judgement, they would have to show they hadn’t committed mail fraud or that the court’s interpretation of the law was wrong, and that isn’t going to happen. I seriously doubt that it will be accepted for appeal in the first place, since there is nothing to appeal. If you have a copy of the appeal, please feel free to post it, we could all use a good laugh.
Moogie finds a really old dead horse to beat
If you want a legal theory, try "agency by estoppel" or reading the Dorean Group's business plan that explained this in detail & even cited references from a the law.
Which has already been adjudged fraud. In the first place, there is and never has been an agency by estoppel, and it certainly wouldn’t cover doing something the principal wouldn’t do themselves. This one lost a long long time ago.
more Dorean nonsense
How about the theory that judgments have monetary value & can be sold, or assigned or hypothecated?
How about you have to have a judgement before you can sell one?
and yet more Moogie
How about the theory that the dorean process is a "settled matter" anyway, due to the silence of the financial institutions & that an "unrebutted affidavit is considered Factual", despite the criminal convictions that were obtained by violating court procedures & laws.
How about this whole long poorly constructed sentence is a crock. Having no legal duty to do something means having no legal duty to do something. There was no legal requirement that anyone do anything more than toss the “presentment” in the trash where it belonged, and there could legally be no rights generated or issuing therefrom. The unrebutted affidavit nonsense is also a crock, it ONLY applies to court actions, and only if there is no rebuttal or objection, which there would be on nonsense like this, if the court didn’t strike it down first as legal nonsense. Your knowledge of court procedure is right on par with your knowledge of court procedure and law, financial, and real estate law, which is to say nonexistent.
more Moogie nonsense
Perhaps they should. At least then, the clients would be more united & as a group have more power to help overturn all of the B.S. that has already transpired. There is always power in numbers & the government fears this.
Dream on Moogs, if you think numbers make a difference you might want to look into the Global Prosperity trials, they are still trying, and convicting people for that one and it was over almost five years ago. Don’t give up hope, your turn may yet be coming.
Just keep right on raving Moogs, you’ve already blown your Cheek defense, maybe they will take pity on you and think you really were too stupid to know what you were doing.
btw, did yo all her about that eyetalian woman ho could here raydeo singles in her haid???
hur name was ann tenna
Notarial Dissent said: The thing you refuse to accept or acknowledge is that the fraud was based on many components, all of them illegal; the conspiracy to commit the fraud,
OH YOU MUST MEAN ONLY THE 6 PEOPLE THAT WERE INDICTED & CONVICTED?
LIKE YOU SAID, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET PAID TO BE PART OF A CONSPIRACY, SO WHY AREN'T ALL CLIENTS INCLUDED IN THE CONSPIRACY ON CRIMINAL CHARGES TOO? DID THEY OR DID THEY ALL NOT FURTHER THE PROCESS, CONSPIRE, OR PLAY OR EVEN PAY A SMALL PART IN THE SCHEME, OR AS YOU SAY CONSPIRE IN THE CONSPIRACY, EITHER KNOWLINGLY OR IGNORANTLY, DOESN'T REALLY MATTER ACCORDING TO HOW THE PROSECUTION ARGUED WHAT A CONSPIRACY CONSTITUTES.
the scamming of the clients for fees,
THE SETTLEMENT IS FORTHCOMING & A PROMISE OF RETURNED FEES. SCAM ARTISTS DON'T RETURN FEES OR FEEL A NEED TO PROMISE SUCH.
the presentment sent to the lenders,
A CHALLENGE OF A DEBT OR DEMANDING A VALIDATION OF A DEBT IS A LEGAL RIGHT. WHAT DO COLLECTION AGENCIES SEND OUT IN ALL OF THEIR FIRST LETTERS TO COLLECT A DEBT? THEY INCLUDE THE RIGHT TO HAVE THE DEBT VALIDATED WITHIN 30 DAYS, DO THEY NOT? A DEBTOR HAS A RIGHT TO CHALLENGE THE DEBT OR TO CHALLENGE ANY VIOLATIONS OF LAWS. THE PRESENTMENT WASN'T NOTHING MORE THAN A CHALLENGE OF RIGHTS & AN ATTEMPT TO GET TO THE TRUTH & TO THE FACTS OF THE LENDING SITUATION.
the fraudulent power of attorney,
THE POWER OF ATTORNEY WAS BASED UPON UCC LAW, THE SAME LAW THE COURT REFUSED TO HEAR ABOUT IN THE TRIAL, REMEMBER? YOU WOULD KNOW THAT IF YOU EVER READ THE POWER OF ATTORNEY.
the fraudulent releases,
WHY NOT TALK ABOUT THE FRAUDULENT LIEN IN THE FIRST PLACE? IF THE ORIGINAL LIEN IS FRAUDULENT, THE RELEASE CAN'T BE FRAUDULENT.
the loans obtained by fraud,
THE LOANS CAN'T BE OBTAINED BY FRAUD WHEN THE DOREAN PROCESS PAPER TRAIL WAS RECORDED WITH FULL DISCLOSURE. THERE WAS NO ATTEMPT TO PULL ANY PUNCHES OR TO DECEIVE ANYONE, YET EVEN WITH ALL OF THAT INTENT, & OPENNESS THEY ARE STILL ACCUSED OF BEING DECEPTIVE OR DISHONEST. THAT AMAZES ME! REMEMBER NO BANK FRAUD WAS EVER PROVEN & ALL BANK FRAUD CHARGES EVEN DROPPED & EVEN THE CONTEMPT OF COURT CHARGES. OF ALL THE CHARGES, THAT'S THE CHARGE THAT MAYBE THE PROSECUTION SHOULD HAVE NAILED. STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS, ESPECIALLY BY THE FACTS ALREADY ESTABLISHED.
the loan proceeds obtained by the dim duo after the fraudulently obtained loans were received,
THAT ONLY HAPPENED IN A DOZEN CASES. COURSE WHO WAS DEFRAUDED HERE? CAN'T BE THE BANKS SINCE NO BANK FRAUD WAS PROVEN IN THE COURT RECORD. AND IT CAN'T BE THE DOREAN CLIENTS EITHER BECAUSE THEY SHARED IN THE PROFITS OF THE REFINANCE, DID THEY NOT & EVEN AGREED TO SHARE IN WHAT YOU WOULD CONSIDER AS FILTHY LUCRE. AGAIN, NO CLIENTS AS VICTIMS WHO VOLUNTARILY & KNOWINGLY COMMITTED THE REFINANCE KNOWING FULL WELL THEY DIDN'T PAY OFF THE FIRST LOAN; AT LEAST ACCORDING TO WHAT THE COURT SAID. CAN'T BE A VICTIM & A PERPETRATOR OF A CONSPIRACY AT THE SAME TIME IN THIS PART OF THE SCHEME OF THE REFINANCE. THAT'S LIKE SAYING BLACK IS WHITE.
the fraud against the banks/lenders,
THERE WAS NO BANK FRAUD, THOSE CHARGES WERE DROPPED.
the fraud against the title insurance companies,
NO EVIDENCE OF LOSS BY THE TITLE INSURANCE COMPANIES IN THE COURT RECORD. TITLE COMPANIES DON'T PAY OUT WHEN FRAUD IS PROVEN ANYWAY. SORRY, NO COOKIE FOR YOU.
and the fraud against people who bought properties they thought were free and clear and weren’t,
AGAIN THIS WASN'T MENTIONED IN THE TRIAL WITH ANY WITNESSES TO SUCH. IF SO, WHAT WERE THEIR NAMES? IF PEOPLE BOUGHT PROPERTIES & DOREAN CLIENTS OBTAINED MONIES AFTER GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS, WHY WEREN'T THEY CHARGED TOO WITH CONSPIRACY? COURSE THERE IS NO SUCCESS STORIES ACCORDING TO THE NAYSAYERS, REMEMBER?? A DOREAN CLIENT MAKING A PROFIT FROM THE PROCESS & SELLING HIS FREE & CLEAR HOUSE WOULD BE A SUCCESS STORY & NAYSAYERS STILL ATTEST TO NO SUCCESS STORIES.
REMEMBER THERE WERE ONLY 6 CHARGED & CONVICTED, NONE OF THEM WERE CLIENTS SELLING HOUSES. THOSE ARE THE FACTS TO DATE. HOW DO YOU BUY A PROPERTY THAT HAS A MESSED UP TITLE ANYWAY & WOULDN'T YOU BUY A HOUSE & GET TITLE INSURANCE IF YOU PURCHASED A HOME? ISN'T IT THE TITLE COMPANIES JOB TO INSURE TITLE & THEY FIGURED OUT THE SO CALLED SCAM LONG AGO AS YOU SAY & THAT'S WHY ONLY A DOZEN PEOPLE WERE ABLE TO DO A REFINANCE. THE TITLE COMPANIES WERE PRIVY TO THE DOREAN PROCESS EARLY ON & SENT OUT MEMOS, TO ALLEVIATE ANY POSSIBLE LOSSES, REMEMBER, LONG BEFORE ANY ARRESTS. BESIDES THE FACT IS THAT THE FBI WERE WATCHING THE DOREAN PROCESS & PEOPLE FROM ALMOST DAY ONE.
and let’s not forget the winner here, using the mails to commit fraud and the sending of fraudulent documents through the mails.
YES, THE MAIL MAN IS GUILTY OF THAT BY CONSPIRING TO MAIL THE LETTERS & DOCUMENTS TOO. HE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN ANYTHING WITH THE DOREAN GROUP NAME ON IT WAS A FRAUDULENT DOCUMENT, RIGHT???? ISN'T HE AN EMPLOYEE OF THE GOVERNMENT? DON'T MAIL MEN WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT? DIDN'T THE US GOVERNMENT BRING THE CRIMINAL CHARGES? DIDN'T THE GOVERNMENT, THE TITLE COMPANIES, LAWYERS, THE FBI, COURTS, REAL ESTATE AGENTS & THE LOAN INDUSTRY IN GENERAL, KNOW ABOUT THE DOREAN GROUP'S BAD PRESS & ACTIVITIES FROM ALL THE PUBLICITY, RADIO, TV & internet, UNLESS OF COURSE SOMEONE IS LIVING UNDER A ROCK? ALL MAILS RECEIVED BY CLIENTS FROM THE DOREAN GROUP ALSO COME IN THIS CATEGORY TOO OF POSSIBLE MAIL FRAUD IF IT'S A FRAUDULENT ILLEGAL SCHEME, YET MOST CLIENTS ACCORDING TO YOU & THE DEPT. OF JUSTICE ARE NOT VICTIMS OR CONSPIRATORS, REMEMBER? THE PROSECUTORS DIDN'T CONSIDER THIS MAIL AS MAIL FRAUD AT ALL OF ANY CORRESPONDENCE FROM THE CLIENT TO THE DOREAN GROUP AS CONSPIRATORIAL IN NATURE IN THE COURT RECORDS.
These, and probably many others I have missed were all elements of the over all fraud.
NO, IT WAS JUST MAIL FRAUD, NOTHING MORE ACCORDING TO YOU.
There is no requirement, despite your delusions, that they be charged on all or even most of the elements,
YOU'RE RIGHT THEY WEREN'T PROVEN GUILTY ON MOST OF THESE ELEMENTS IN THE CRIMINAL TRIAL & MANY OF THE CHARGES WERE IGNORED BY THE PROSECUTION IN EVEN ATTEMPTING TO PROVE ANYTHING. YOU CAN'T PLEAD ONE VICTIM (THE FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS) & ATTEMPT TO PROVE ANOTHER THAT WAS NOT EVEN PLED AS A VICTIM (THE CLIENTS). THAT'S NOT EVEN GOOD COHERENT READING. IF IT WAS AN ENGLISH PAPER YOU WOULD GET AN F FOR FAILING TO PROVE YOUR ORIGINAL POINT. IF IT WAS A DEBATE CLASS YOU WOULD ALSO FAIL.
any one that is provable, and was, is sufficient.
NONE WERE PROVABLE BY FACTS, HOWEVER, YES, I AGREE THEY WERE CONVICTED. CONVICTED WITH NO REAL FACTS TO SUPPORT THE CONVICTIONS, IS NOT A CONVICTION THAT WILL STAND THE TEST OF TIME.
They were charged, tried, and convicted of MAIL FRAUD, which was a part of the overall scheme,
IF THE DOREAN GROUP IS CORRECT, THAN ALL LENDERS ARE GUILTY OF MAIL FRAUD, BANK FRAUD & WIRE FRAUD. WHEN LENDERS VIOLATE THE TILA LAWS & EXTRACT ILLEGAL FEES, & SEND DOCUMENTS THROUGH THE MAILS, THEY ARE GUILTY OF MAIL FRAUD. WHY DON'T THEY EVER GET CONVICTED OF SUCH OR WHY DON'T i HEAR ABOUT THIS IN MAJOR NEWS STORIES? EVEN JUDGE BEAN KNOWS THAT MANY LENDERS ARE LOAN SHARKS & CAN'T BE TRUSTED, YET STRANGELY ENOUGH, WHEN DO HIGH OFFICERS OF MAJOR LENDING INSTITUTIONS EVER GET CONVICTED EVER OF MAIL FRAUD!!! WHY IS THAT??????????
they were sentenced to prison for that crime.
SELECTIVE PROSECUTION DUE TO A POLITICAL AGENDA?????
The fact that the dimmest of the duo seems bent on adding a further round of charges to what he has already collected is just further amusement.
BENT ON ADDING ANOTHER CHARGE? EXCUSE ME!!! THE UCC FILINGS WERE FILED LONG BEFORE THEY WERE EVEN ARRESTED. SCAM ARTISTS USUALLY RELENT AT SOME POINT OR CONFESS OR ADMIT WRONG DOING TO MINIMIZE JAIL SENTENCES OR MAKE SELFISH DEALS. WHY HAVEN'T THE DOREAN GROUP DONE THIS TO DATE? IF ANYTHING, IT JUST SHOWS THEIR INTEGRITY & THEIR STRONGLY HELD BELIEFS THAT THEY ARE RIGHTEOUS IN THEIR CAUSE. IF THEIR CASE WASN'T INTERESTING, THE BLOG WOULD HAVE DIED LONG AGO WITH NO INTEREST FROM EITHER SIDE.
dR. SAID: "but if yo rember, then even stop sayed that theres no umbilical chuchs anymo...they are all encrupted...so wha the big eel????"
_________________________________
The big deal is that I don't agree with your assumption.
Notarial Dissent said: "there is and never has been an agency by estoppel, and it certainly wouldn’t cover doing something the principal wouldn’t do themselves."
_____________________________
What wouldn't the Principal do?
Are you suggesting Principals of lending institutions don't discharge mortgages or do deed of reconveyances as a normal cause of business?
Notarial Dissent said: "Having no legal duty to do something means having no legal duty to do something. There was no legal requirement that anyone do anything more than toss the “presentment” in the trash where it belonged
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Hey that's one of your better thought out statements. No requirement to do NOTHING, means obligated to throw it in the trash. LOL
Notarial Dissent said: "How about you have to have a judgement before you can sell one?"
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Maybe I should have used the term "debt instrument" or "obligation" in leu of the word "judgement" & maybe it would have made more sense to you. Obligations & debts are sold all the time for value or money. You think of a judgment only as a paper that needs to be signed off by a standing Judge.
Notarial Dissent said: "and there could legally be no rights generated or issuing therefrom."
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You must never read "disclaimers" or the "fine print" when you purchase anything on the internet then. LOL
Notarial Dissent said: "Just keep right on raving Moogs, you’ve already blown your Cheek defense,"
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Oh, I didn't realize I needed a defense. Another assumption of yours obviously with no real facts to show either. Nothing more than pure supposition. I'm a NON-entity, remember? I hope I can count on your testimony to stay consistent. If not, I'm sure your cat would be a better character reference. LOL
Notarial Dissent said: "there is nothing to settle with in the first place, and even if there were, it wouldn’t alter the crimes that occurred and that they were convicted of."
________________________________
The scam was according to naysayers like yourself & others I've talked with explaining this to me, was that the clients didn't get what they were promised & were deceived & that's why the documents & expectations were false & why the clients were victims.
When there is a settlement, than that allegation of deception is not true after all & the clients aren't victims of mail fraud because they certainly got real value for the fees they paid.
If you get what you are promised, & are content with that, I don't see that being a scheme or a scam. Obviously you do for some strange reason.
mogel007 said...
dR. SAID: "but if yo rember, then even stop sayed that theres no umbilical chuchs anymo...they are all encrupted...so wha the big eel????"
_________________________________
The big deal is that I don't agree with your assumption.
but mongrel, yo nedd to take it up with stroy who has the evidence of encryption at the moonem chruch.
now mongrel, yo bin a 'good boy' up till' now, but now yo gettin a little short templed....now go be a good boy and go outside and sit down and chew on your milky bones...or i am gong to haf to take out that roll up noosepaper and stot boppin' yo on yo nose agan fo beein a bad dog....an i no that yo dun lyke it when i bop yo on yo noze with the noosepaper....
BOP!!!!♪♫☼▲♦*&#
and yo relly wont like it coss the sunday nosepaper is very heavy too!
Gashler, it's hard to believe but you're getting more and more delusional or you're just desperate to keep the myth alive:
"Maybe I should have used the term "debt instrument" or "obligation" in leu of the word "judgement" & maybe it would have made more sense to you. Obligations & debts are sold all the time for value or money. You think of a judgment only as a paper that needs to be signed off by a standing Judge."
Byron - you need to put the word "REAL" in front of "obligations and debts..."
Just keep pushing it and you too can be indicted for filing bogus "debt instruments" through the mail.
Kurt's about to be - again, and it's for the ones he filed in July, September and October of 2007.
And keep telling yourself that fraud doesn't exist until someone loses something - that will speed your path to arrest.
...an juggins', wah r yo lookin' at!?
Adam 12 said: "MAY THEY ALL ROT IN HELL AND BE THE GLORY HOLE FOR THE BLACK AND ILLEGAL MEXICAN JAIL..
_______________________________
The bond was only $10,000. Don't think anyone is going to rot in jail over this. Securities fraud? Maybe he was raising money in a way that the SEC doesn't like or doesn't consider to be legal. If you don't register your offering & try to have too many investors, you can get shut down really quickly.
Dr. said: "but mongrel, yo nedd to take it up with stroy who has the evidence of encryption at the moonem chruch."
________________________________
I tried that with the other source from the Great Britain newspaper that prints all of that sensationalism too that you quoted months ago who also who had a slanderous remark about many Churches & he refused to produce the goods or confirm about what he said about the Mormon Church, so it's just a waste of time following your suggestion to challenge these irresponsible people. It's not nice to be cruel to animals. You'll probably get the wrath of Notarial Dissent for that. How do you know he has the evidence? If he had it, wouldn't he also print it, which he didn't? His whole article sounded like "heresay". It's irresponsible journalism at best.
Judge said: "Byron - you need to put the word "REAL" in front of "obligations and debts..."
_______________________________
Don't need to now. You did it for me.
Judge: Just keep pushing it and you too can be indicted for filing bogus "debt instruments" through the mail.
_________________________________
What does "pushing it" have to do with mail fraud? Have I recently mailed anything through the mail that is considered to be a false instrument? If so, please post it now, or cease your false accusations towards me.
Having a point of view is not tantamount to mail fraud. Man, you are whacked out, aren't you? If it's not mail fraud, you think a point of view must be some form of conspiracy, huh?
So Kurt is going to be charged with the ones he filed or sent through the mails in 2007? Were those filings related to some UCC-1 filings also in 2007 like I thought you insinuated on your website? I undertand he claimed to have a lien or claim against the Bureau of Prisons for their bad behaviour towards him. Maybe the B.O.P. needs to prove otherwise first. I had understood that the B.O.P. interferred with his personal rights & his right to defend himself in court without interference. The abuse of powers was a charge I believe was at the forefront here.
You know I hear about this idea that the banks had no obligation to answer any charges, but the B.O.P. felt obligated to file an answer in the court record, remember? What's up with that? Kind of a hypocritical stand, don't you think? The allegations by the Dorean Group certainly weren't considered worthy of the trash bucket in this particular instance.
Judge Bean said: "And keep telling yourself that fraud doesn't exist until someone loses something - that will speed your path to arrest."
______________________________
I'm not the one saying that. The naysayers like yourself are the ones that say the dorean scam is real because clients lost monies & homes as evidence of the scam.
Maybe you should be arrested for wire fraud by printing false things here. You think all of your posts are accurate & truthful?
Moogie, you crack me up.
ROFLMAO
Judge said: "Gashler, it's hard to believe but you're getting more and more delusional or you're just desperate to keep the myth alive:"
_________________________________
I'm delusional? Do they arrest, charge, convict, & imprison delusional people? You are so inconsistent with your childish threats & fear tactics.
You think I'm desperate? Let's see..... The government has already convicted two men for 20-25 years in prison. They'll be both close to 70 years old when they get out, assuming having to serve the full sentence. Now the government wants to add more time to that long sentence by adding more charges. Why? Sounds like a desperate attempt of overkill here, don't you think, or maybe the government is finally truly desperate & feels threatened here & feels it necessary to make another point or otherwise, the government can be threatened & shows it's vulnerability by doing nothing.
Gashler, to answer your original nonsensical question would require a leap into Fred Johnson's world of legal mythology intended to scam people.
You keep trying to promote something that convinces the 'clients' that there's going to be some mythological settlements - and it's pretty clear why. You and Fred are trying to keep them on the hook so they won't sue your sorry a**es.
Here's the message you're trying to send: "Stay on course - the settlements are coming for the faithful."
How much of a cut is Fred offering you to keep promoting the scheme?
Definition of a tragedy.A bus loaded with attorneys goes off a cliff with one seat empty.
Clean up your up town counselor before you start calling some one else a liar.
tontie listen to sudden sam kendy.......really a good show to get yo JOHN DOUGH© back from uncle scam....or juggins.....
Dear Friends,
At this very moment, two patriots who decided to depart commerce and return to the county land are in the process of moving back into their homes in defiance of the rogue de facto sheriffs who enforced bank foreclosures against genuine sovereigns. Tonight (June 29) at 9 PM EST on TAKE NO PRISONERS I will bring you their stories on the Republic Broadcasting Network (Google ‘RBN’) and suggest how a sovereign man on the land might act in such a situation, and moreover, how those of you who desire or need a complete divorce from U.S. Inc. and are prepared to live without debt, credit cards, licenses, insurance, annuities, social security, and adhesion contracts, and those of you who do not yet understand the term: return to the county land, can rise from the abyss and live that dream.
mongrel, looky, i dunno if stroy has the evadance or not....to me it relly doont matta anyho....i agree with the assended stop when he sayed that all chruchs are crupt....his word was goo enfu fo me....whtver stroy says is his busyness...not mind...but in any case, yo gotta be constant...if yo goann bleeeve what he say about the evil bakers and all the wantum stuff, then yo not gonna bleeve what he say about all the crupt urchins....they all swimmin in a sea of cruptins....in any case no maffa to me....like he say, it all just a fiance obfuction divices......used as juggins would use the word... ENTER ALIENS to convict scamming ooperations.....
mongrel, yo goota unstand....like slop said...there are no umbilical crutches left....they all cut the cord 2000 ears ago....and now they cant walk strate...they all walk crocked.....
Judge Bean said: "Please explain any bona fide legal theory that connects yet another scam you and Fred are promoting to further scam the 'clents' to overturning the convictions of Johnson and Heineman."
__________________________________
So if the appeal overturns the convictions, than this court decision is a scam too????
You must think there is a communist under ever rock. Senator McCarthy would have loved you.
sam kendy gonna have like ed sillyvan yooz to say: "a really good shew" tontie:
worht a lissen...
For those who do not wish or need to cross that bridge, I will also bring you stories of the rapidly expanding commercial victories which have been brought to my attention this week: discharges of bills, setoff of loans and hospital bills, refunds and releases of liens. All verified with copies of direct deposits, checks and statements of account. Is this not the most exciting time to be restoring the brilliance that was the American dream? What a difference a year makes.
And finally, it is my honor to bring you the wisdom of Tom Schaults in a one-on-one no-holds-barred personal interview. Tom is a commercial master and devoutly pious sovereign Christian who not only devotes most of the year in selfless service to others without charge, but walks the freedom walk robustly. Tom is a reluctant guest because his humility bars him from even entertaining the possibility that his words might have value to others. No irony then that there will likely be many insightful pearls from which we can learn. This would be a time to bring the neighbors and family into the room to hear the persepctive of someone who has not bowed to the pagan corporation. It could be eye-opening.
AND FIVE IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENTS…
1. I urge every patriot who is serious about spearheading freedom as a genuine sovereign on the land rather than in name only, to attend the Stewards for the County seminar being offered by Keith-Edwards’ (Keith Livingway) the weekend of August 2nd and 3rd in Albany, New York. I have no affiliation with Keith other than respect for his work, but I expect the event to be life-changing for those who are at the point of complete divorce from U.S. Inc. You can RSVP to Keith at:
cde_jure@yahoo.com (underscore between the e and j)
2. For every patriot who enjoys having IRS collect for them, who seeks a return of funds to the original lender (us), who seeks to harness the commercial society for the needs of their family, who wishes to crawl out from liens and hellacious bills without completely abandoning commercial society and its employment, banking and insurance privileges, I urge you to contact the BIC Study Club (info@bicstudyclub.org) to enroll in the five day extensive BIC Beginners Workshop being held at Las Vegas on July 28th through August 1st. I am not affiliated with the Club, but I expect the seminar will be invaluable for beginners facing challenges. This is to be a hands-on workshop where attendees forge their own remedies under the guidance of superb commercial mentors. And I understand that Tom Schaults will be in attendance for the entire week.
3. I am pleased to announce that the emerging Great Registry (!) for all de jure land records can be examined at:
http://www.onesteward.org/contact.html
Just how significant is the availability of a centralized registry of land records in restoring America and giving a tangible face to the Law? Think about the possibilities once every de facto county-in-fiction receives notice. Folks, the Registry is not my project, but as I reported at the beginning of the year, great forces are coming together in 2008 to ensure that this is the year of the Second Exodus.
4. I am also pleased to announce in response to the urgent demand for competent commercial notaries, that the most competent BIC notary in the country is offering a Notary Training Seminar on August 16 and 17 for notaries who wish to become skilled in commercial procedures with minimum risk and patriots who who wish to learn to become competent commercial notaries public. Please contact;
NotarySeminar@hush.com
This is a wondrous chance for study groups bring these services home and divorce themselves from the inconvenienceof out-of-state services.
5. Sherry Jackson is desperately in need of funds in prison to purchase edible food, and I URGE EVERY PATRIOT TO CONSIDER SENDING A POSTAL MONEY ORDER to:
Federal Bureau of Prisons
Sherry Peel Jackson #59085019
PO Box 474701
Des Moines, IA 50947
Thank you on her behalf for the support.
________________________
In answer to the inquiries, the Collecting in Bankruptcy course CD IS still available at
Restore.america@hotmail.com
It’s an excellent resource if you have your back to the wall and need relief, or wish to try your hand at monetizing a lien. I consider it to be my best work.
I hope to see you tonight. If you have no objection, would you kindly forward this email to your list?
God bless,
Sam XXXXX
i dun put in anynones reel name for privacy reesons
this is imnportatn:
5. Sherry Jackson is desperately in need of funds in prison to purchase edible food, and I URGE EVERY PATRIOT TO CONSIDER SENDING A POSTAL MONEY ORDER to:
Federal Bureau of Prisons
Sherry Peel Jackson #59085019
PO Box 474701
Des Moines, IA 50947
Thank you on her behalf for the support.
________________________
the event to be life-changing for those who are at the point of complete divorce from U.S. Inc.©©©
hey juggins©....c' ya!
now go get sum vaslin, and then take you © and stuff it up yo assended....
i guess yo dun have access to a printer.... why bother when yo can jus' print yo own.....assumin that yo no what yo doin'.....
its bin dun b4.....
Judge Bean would Love for one of these guys to attempt show their hand but, who ever response to this request probably doesn't have a clue what our friends have up their sleaves.
P.S. Thanks for the Phone call last week K, it was great hearing your voice, Gods speed to both of u my brothers see u soon!!!
and Moogie rants on
OH YOU MUST MEAN ONLY THE 6 PEOPLE THAT WERE INDICTED & CONVICTED?
LIKE YOU SAID, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET PAID TO BE PART OF A CONSPIRACY, SO WHY AREN'T ALL CLIENTS INCLUDED IN THE CONSPIRACY ON CRIMINAL CHARGES TOO?
No, that is not what I mean. As to why they indicted who they indicted, you’ll have to ask the prosecutors, they didn’t confide in me and I don’t really care. They were/are under no obligation to indite everyone involved, they made the decision based on their criteria, not mine.
Moogie still ranting
THE SETTLEMENT IS FORTHCOMING & A PROMISE OF RETURNED FEES. SCAM ARTISTS DON'T RETURN FEES OR FEEL A NEED TO PROMISE SUCH.
Just another Dorean crock, there is nothing to settle with since they had nothing to start with, therefore, just another fraud.
still ranting
A CHALLENGE OF A DEBT OR DEMANDING A VALIDATION OF A DEBT IS A LEGAL RIGHT.
And this wasn’t the way to do it.
We’ve been down this goat trail before Moogs, it was a crock from beginning to end, and it has been judicially adjudged a fraud from start to finish. The matter is dead and closed.
The only charges prosecuted were for MAIL FRAUD, and that is what they were tried on, convicted on, and sentenced on. Dropping of charges does equate to innocence Moogs, it means they dropped them, they can be reinstituted at any time.
Moogie’s mouth trips him up yet again
BENT ON ADDING ANOTHER CHARGE? EXCUSE ME!!! THE UCC FILINGS WERE FILED LONG BEFORE THEY WERE EVEN ARRESTED.
No I don’t excuse you, your ignorance and moral turpitude are appalling. Incidently, the latest charges are from documents they filed recently while in prison. They have been filed against Federal officials, which makes it a Federal Felony yet again, combined with mail fraud, they’ll get a twofer on this one. If there is any justice they get these sentences tacked on to the ones they already have.
further Moogie nonsense
What wouldn't the Principal do?
Are you suggesting Principals of lending institutions don't discharge mortgages or do deed of reconveyances as a normal cause of business?
They certainly wouldn’t release a TD that hadn’t been paid off.
Moogie blathers some more
Maybe I should have used the term "debt instrument" or "obligation" in leu of the word "judgement" & maybe it would have made more sense to you. Obligations & debts are sold all the time for value or money. You think of a judgment only as a paper that needs to be signed off by a standing Judge.
Maybe you should actually say what you mean, but it might help if you had clue one about what you were talking about. The second statement is true. The third is your delusion again. A judgement, must by definition and law be signed by a judge, otherwise it isn’t a judgement, and has neither legal force nor effect.
Moogie nonsense
You must never read "disclaimers" or the "fine print" when you purchase anything on the internet then.
And you have obviously missed the point that there has to be some basis in reality before anything can happen. There wasn’t any, so there could be nothing issue forth from a fraudulent document.
Moogie tries to be funny
Oh, I didn't realize I needed a defense. Another assumption of yours obviously with no real facts to show either. Nothing more than pure supposition. I'm a NON-entity, remember? I hope I can count on your testimony to stay consistent.
You’re the one who keeps complaining that the brokers and clients haven’t been charged. Remember the old saying, “be careful what you wish for”? You’re the one making the noise, not me. As to your sparkling personality, I doubt if it will seriously matter if they decide to continue prosecution. Be patient Moogs, your time will come.
Moogie tries to explain away the elephant in the corner
The scam was according to naysayers like yourself & others I've talked with explaining this to me, was that the clients didn't get what they were promised & were deceived & that's why the documents & expectations were false & why the clients were victims.
The scam was, according to the court, the fleecing of the “clients” and the attempted fleecing of the lenders using fraudulent documents. The expectations were false for the simple reason that dim and dimmer could not do what they promised. The documents were fraudulent because they were just that, from beginning to end. Your “understanding” of this, like your “understanding” of the law is non existent. The clients were “victims” because the entire thing was an attempt at fraud from beginning to end.
Moogie practices auto-hallucination
When there is a settlement, than that allegation of deception is not true after all & the clients aren't victims of mail fraud because they certainly got real value for the fees they paid.
Do you have any other fantasies we need to know about. Get this through your feeble mind, there AIN’T gonna be a settlement, not now not every, there is nothing to settle with. Since the whole thing was a fraud, there is no way to make it anything else.
Moogie’s true moral character comes through
If you get what you are promised, & are content with that, I don't see that being a scheme or a scam. Obviously you do for some strange reason.
If you get what you were promised and got it as the result of a fraudulent activity, then there is a problem, it is called complicity in a fraud, and yes, I guess you could say I have a real problem with that.
hey, juggins....
rember all those huses that yo stole from ppl with them crupt layers and bakers...well, rember, the devil always eat its own....now, the 'beast' has turned it tale and now gonna devour yo!!!
------------------
The Shrinking Influence of the US Federal Reserve
By Gabor Steingart in Washington
Humiliation for Mr. Dollar: Ben Bernanke, the chairman of the United States Federal Reserve Bank, faces a general investigation by the International Monetary Fund. Just one more example of the Fed losing its power.
The United States Federal Reserve Bank, or Fed, seems as much a part of America as Coca-Cola or Pizza Hut. But at least one difference has become apparent in recent days. While the pizza chain and soft-drink maker are likely to expand their scope of influence in the age of globalization, the US central bank is finding that its power is shrinking.
The US Federal Reserve.
No Fed chief in US history has been forced to submit to the kind of humiliation that Ben Bernanke is facing.
This is partly down to circumstances. Inflation is going up and up, and this year's average will likely top 4 percent. But this time Mr. Dollar is also Mr. Powerless. He can raise interest rates in the fall, or he can pray, which would probably be the better choice. At least prayer would not prevent the US economy from growing, a highly likely outcome if interest rates go up.
After years of growth, the United States is now on the brink of a recession, one that is more likely to be deepened than softened by a tight money policy. Investments will automatically become more expensive, consumer spending will be curbed and economic growth will slow down, immediately affecting unemployment figures and wages.
The textbook conclusion is that this will stabilize the value of money, because no one will dare demand higher wages or higher prices. But the macroeconomics textbooks are no longer worth much in the age of globalization. Modern inflation is driven by the global scarcity of resources. Nowadays purchasing power exceeds purchasing opportunity. Most of all, there is not enough oil, and too few raw materials and food products. These increasingly scarce resources are becoming the focus of disputes among many people and billions of dollars are at stake.
This is why the price of a barrel of crude oil (159 liters) has increased from $25 (€16) in 2002 to $135 (€87) in 2008. And it is also why the price of corn has tripled in the same time period, while that of copper has almost quintupled.
If the inflation introduced in the United States is excluded, a small miracle is revealed, namely something approaching price stability. Adjusted for inflation, prices are in fact rising by only 2.3 percent. If this were the extent of it, the Fed chief could simply blink like an old watchdog and go back to sleep. Instead, he is barking loudly, which is his job. But he has lost his bite, because the Fed's interest rate policy can do nothing about the scarcity of goods.
US Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke. The entire US financial system is to come under the scrutiny of the IMF
Embarrassing Investigation
Some of Bernanke's personal adversaries are also contributing significantly to his current humiliation. In the past, the chairman of the Federal Reserve was a pope among the priests of the financial elite. But unlike his predecessor Alan Greenspan, Bernanke is finding that his policies are not universally accepted, even within the Fed.
The last seven decisions reached by the Federal Open Market Committee, which sets monetary policy, were accompanied by a growing number of dissenting votes. Bernanke's critics say that with his policy of cheap money -- in other words, recurring rate reductions -- he in fact helped fuel the inflation problem he is now trying to combat.
Another problem for Mr. Dollar is that it will be several months before his actions take effect. Officials with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) have informed Bernanke about a plan that would have been unheard-of in the past: a general examination of the US financial system. The IMF's board of directors has ruled that a so-called Financial Sector Assessment Program (FSAP) is to be carried out in the United States. It is nothing less than an X-ray of the entire US financial system.
As part of the assessment, the Fed, the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), the major investment banks, mortgage banks and hedge funds will be asked to hand over confidential documents to the IMF team. They will be required to answer the questions they are asked during interviews. Their databases will be subjected to so-called stress tests -- worst-case scenarios designed to simulate the broader effects of failures of other major financial institutions or a continuing decline of the dollar.
.
Under its bylaws, the IMF is charged with the supervision of the international monetary system. Roughly two-thirds of IMF members -- but never the United States -- have already endured this painful procedure.
For seven years, US President George W. Bush refused to allow the IMF to conduct its assessment. Even now, he has only given the IMF board his consent under one important condition. The review can begin in Bush's last year in office, but it may not be completed until he has left the White House. This is bad news for the Fed chairman.
When the final report on the risks of the US financial system is released in 2010 -- and it is likely to cause a stir internationally -- only one of the people in positions of responsiblity today will still be in office: Ben Bernanke.
Translated from the German by Christopher Sultan
http://www.spiegel.de/
international/world
/0,1518,562291,00.html
still, i do haf ta admint, the fed investgating the fed is funny....prob nothing will cum out of it....cept maybe juggins will get some more loads of vaslin stok
Dr. quoted: Restore.america@hotmail.com
It’s an excellent resource if you have your back to the wall and need relief, or wish to try your hand at monetizing a lien.
______________________________
Monetizing a lien? Making money from a lien you have? Dr. SOP maybe you should buy that CD & make a report on the steps of the process. Without the why's & wherefore's of the process, it's just a nebulous concept to most. I have some liens I could assign to you if you really believe the process is workable & easy.
Judge Bean said: "You keep trying to promote something that convinces the 'clients' that there's going to be some mythological settlements - and it's pretty CLEAR why. You and Fred are trying to keep them on the hook so they won't sue your sorry a**es.
Here's the message you're trying to send: "Stay on course - the settlements are coming for the faithful."
How much of a cut is Fred offering you to keep promoting the scheme?
________________________________
that CONVINCES?....... If it's mythology, as you say, it would hardly CONVINCE anyone. Please choose your words more carefully so you come across more believable.
A cut? Wait a second, how can their be a cut if there is no settlement coming? If I know I am defending a lie or a scam, why would I have an expectation of a cut from something that can't be?
Judge, your problem is you don't think before you open your mouth.
My goodness. How amusing that LIES are so CLEAR to you. Your remarks are more proof of more slander & libel adding up to your talley sheet when you present things as facts.
Suing doesn't accomplish anything if you can't collect on it. That's the type of paper that Notarial Dissent refers to as worthy of the garbage can. My assets are in trust & those assets have liens in front of a possible lawsuit anyway & I'm judgement proof anyway, so what's the point of litigation, even if you are assuming some possible litigant has a worthy cause. You think I've never been sued or that I'm afraid of possible civil actions? How well do you think you know me? Please don't feel the need to editorialize the word "ass" or "asses" when referring to what you think of me. It's not in keeping with your style of pulling no punches & saying whatever you feel without any facts.
Should I ask you how much the government is paying you to post slanderous information or would that be considered a little uncooth & unprofessional?
Anyone you know that has sued the Dorean Group that has actually monetarily benefitted at this point in time? Would you like to share that with us in such a CLEAR WAY for everyone to appreciate & understand? Nothing is stopping anyone to file their claim in court they feel they might have. You don't even need a good cause to sue & anyone can sue anyone for anything. It's done all the time. I couldn't stop anyone from exercising their rights anymore than you can.
Maybe in your selfish world people have to be paid to do anything or defend a cause, and maybe that's your mindset also, but are all people with that same mindset?
monetizing leans....it would seem that its pretty slim pickens to do that...i have listened to dr. kendy, and he says that there have bin sum succeses, but woldnt this be the same thing that that handsum guy tried to do for trillon of $$$$ and then he despair all of a sudden???
i am in touch with sum ppls from those goops and what so far is that the process is reltvily easy; monsterizin the leans...the problem is that tis pretty 'lean' to try to collect on it...until nosira comes in, i jes cant see the traitory or the feudal reverse jes diposting a few mill in yo bake acct?
now the feudal land registyr seem like an intratin concep.....
and that woman in jail shud jus get assed to a pinter an pint up her own nots...save time and money.
maybe she culd take some egold?
Notarial Dissent said: "The clients were “victims” because the entire thing was an attempt at fraud from beginning to end."
_________________________________
If it's so CLEAR to you, than why would all client take such risks & join the process if it is as simplistic as you say & as clear as you say from beginning to end? Are you saying that all clients were just PLAIN stupid because the ENTIRE THING WAS FRAUD FROM A TO Z? Are you calling all dorean clients RETARDS now? I'm sure in all fairness, you should get a backlash from this comment.
Dr. SOP says: "the problem is that tis pretty 'lean' to try to collect on it."
_____________________________
Again, what does that mean? Is it a worthless judgemnt, or are you saying there are almost no buyers for the paper, what do you mean? You're not being clear enough.
i am mean...there is not byers for them, as noone will take a chance and spend good money for possible bad money....not yet....and no fed agency is gong to deposit any real money in your acct...so agian, the strategy would be, for sumonone already with $$$ would be to buy them up at a discount now, and wait for nosira to cum in....
you instill didnt asswer my question...are these the same type of thins the handsum guy was monesthizing?
Dr. SOP said: "and that woman in jail shud jus get assed to a pinter an pint up her own nots...save time and money."
________________________________
The problem with unsecured notes not secured by property or real estate, that they are so difficult to sell & most knowledgeable Brokers won't even peddle the paper & most investors out there don't want to take a risk like that even if the promised return is high & even secured by a person with a high FICO score & even secured by a commitment for funding in the future where there are plenty of monies set aside for the buyer of the note to be paid on a timely basis.
Not to say that such investors don't exist, I just don't know where to find them.
SOP, I tell you what, you find an investor that recognizes a great deal & will purchase an unsecured promissory note & he'll be given a short term balloon payment on the note of principal & interest in less than 6 months with a great return of 20% plus. Send him my way. I'll pay you a healthy finders fee for a bonfied investor that closes on a newly created & large unseasoned note guranteed by me & guaranteed by the lender that the principal of the note is safe & will be returned if the loan closing for the hotel/resort doesn't happen for whatever reason.
This will allow me to purchase a multi million $ resort/hotel with nothing down that has a large cash flow on an interest only loan of 3.6% for 5 years.
Course Nemo, the real estate genius & mentor, says such concepts are a waste of time & can't be done, & aren't worth paying for, this being a Robert Allen or Russ Dalbey type of concept.
Maybe your investor wants to be a joint venture partner for coming up with only 5% down in leu of purchasing the unsecured promissory note or he can do both. I'm serious!!! I'll even make a contribution to the woman in jail if this comes together due to your efforts. Need a job?
Dr. SOP said: "buy them up at a discount now, and wait for nosira to cum in...."
_______________________________
Problem is that Nessara won't happen, and only a fool would bank on that happening. I gave you an offer to do something now that can happen & in theory makes sense.
Dr. SOP said: "you instill didnt asswer my question...are these the same type of thins the handsum guy was monesthizing?"
____________________________
Since I don't know enough how the process you were talking about works, where you can learn about this in Las Vegas, I can't really answer your question fairly, but I would think the concept is simliar or the same thing to what Mr. Hansen attempted to accomplish.
My understanding was that that Mr. Hansen had started selling some of those UCC-1 liens he had & had an attorney & a real estate agent helping him. Now, you don't hear anymore about what he is doing, whether he was successful or not, who can say? It's not a good sign that his blog is silent & he hasn't updated his actions & progress since Feb. 2008.
Problem is that Nessara won't happen, and only a fool would bank on that happening. I gave you an offer to do something now that can happen & in theory makes sense.
is this really mongrel rightin' like this....nose-eye-ha wont cum in????
this surely cant be mongrel
maybe juggins has eyejacked mongrels user id ;-)
Hey, just got my Dept of Justice letter....WHAT A JOKE!!! LOL!!!
Total deception....Liars.
This is what i say to those who seek "justice" for us "victims":
John 8:44,45
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me.
Notarial Disent said: "and got it as the result of a fraudulent activity, then there is a problem,..."
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The point I'm trying to make is that if no clients ever complained, I don't believe the idea of the dorean process being a scam or being mail fraud would have ever been believed by the Jury.
mongrel, it would be very difficult to put togher a deal like you takin aoubt right now....all the markets are running very scared...eel estate, stock, gold, oil...the markets are predicating something reall BIG is about to happen....
the are thingking that the craazee usa mite really booom iran and then we can all conjugate the verb run, jus like in hi skool; iran, youran, weran, he/she/it ran...they ran...etc...even juggins will be runnin to wok...and not driveling his car as that event will lock up the oil markets and gas → $10/gal with the war preimum included....
what deese jeenyes oil anal-ysts dont have is accewss to the assended SOP...and sop tole me that iran will not get boooomed...not yet....noone knows the nt bible better than sop....he has the ear of the hs for interpretation...iran will get booomed but not before the rapture/assencion wehn all the crisians are gone....then the evil will cum full and iran/israel will go at it...palestins will all be killed. damscus will get "lit up" etc...all in book of resolutions....but for now...ALL mkst. are TIGHT....until nose eye ha!
in dimple inglish...only jimmy nooone will buy dissed nots rite now....he the only one.
an ho many he gonna by...
-0-
yea....that eye rish guy...jimmy noone...he never around wehn yo nedd him....
Dr. SOP: I'm not a believer of Nesarra, as it is told on the internet. sorry. Don't believe in the "rapture" either, as it is told in the evangelical churches too.
Even you admit there are two Nesarra stories or two websites & they don't agree how things are theoretically suppose to happen. Too much disinformation out there on this subject. Nesarra is just too "ivory tower" type of thinking for me, although it makes for a great story that solves everything, or most everything, but I think Cinderella is a great story too, especially the part that "they lived happy ever after." Who doesn't like that idea?
Dr. SOP: What is Jimmy Noone's website or contact information?
i yooze the word nose eye rah for concept...yo can kall it wha ver yo want...the buttom ling is they gonna b a new moonitary sytem cumming in...yo can call it 'corn flaks' if yo like.....
jimmy noone...he got sits all ova da place and he everywhere...everytime yo lookin for sumone to do sumting....usually, the only guy around is noone...tank godness fo jimmy nooone
but mongrel, werent yo a big billevil in noseira before...yo cahnging yo toon now...ho come?
i got an email from you about 5 yers ago and you were relly pushing nosira...
Dr. SOP said: "Sherry Jackson is desperately in need of funds in prison to purchase edible food,"
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Here's some questions I'm not sure how to answer. Can you have food sent to inmates & expect them to get it? If an inmate enjoyed a great New York cheescake, could someone have one sent to them?
Or if you send money to an inmate, where do they buy edible food, it's not like they are free to go to the malls or to the grocery stores themselves? Even a telephone might be restricted to them.
somewhere i think taht thers antoer Dr. who culd aswer that quiston???????
prehaps yo shud addriss it to him?
Notarial Dissent said: "Dropping of charges does equate to innocence Moogs, it means they dropped them, they can be reinstituted at any time
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Sounds like "double jeopardy" to me of reinstating the same claim that was dropped if not an abuse of the legal process in the least. There are time restraints to follow in the system also that reinstatement would violate also. Even in the best scenario, this seems extremely improbable even if the prosecution wanted to do something dumb like that. Dropping of charges sounds like they had a flea ridden dog & wanted to get rid of it as soon as they could.
We at least agree that dropping the charges EQUATES to innocence. Just so you know I take you at face value & stricly listen to exactly what you say. Not everyone does that. LOL
SOP said: mongrel, it would be very difficult to put togher a deal like you takin aoubt right now..
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Not really. The note business is very strong, despite the difficult economy now. Opportunities exist in all economies. Your doom & gloom thinking is going to blind you to the opportunities around you right now. Remember Y2K? Why if you believed all of the garbage promoted from that, you would have sold everything you had & moved underground. Even the Federal Reserve believed the hype which I found a little amusing.
SOP said: "i got an email from you about 5 yers ago and you were relly pushing nosira..."
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Not sure I really understand your comment there. I may have been studying it, but to say I was pushing it, or truly believed it, I believe your conclusion to be a mis-statment from you. I studied the Y2K thing too before the fact, but that doesn't mean I believed the doom & gloom from that either. After all, I didn't buy any generators, or buy a house in the desert somewhere prior to Y2K thinking that the world as we knew it was coming to an end.
Who are some of the promoters of Nesarra?
People like "Dove of Oneness" or whatever her name is.
If someone needs to be convicted of mail fraud, or promoting fraudulent stuff, maybe she's a more likely target? How many of her promises have turned out to be false? One could write a book just on that.
No one in the government is currently & seriously promoting Nesarra to become law, so why should anyone believe it is going to happen?
No one in the government is currently & seriously promoting Nesarra to become law, so why should anyone believe it is going to happen?
thats exactly it!
if the govt. was proting it, then i would doubt that it would ever happen....anyway, like is sayed, you can cal it corn flaks if you like...the mony sytem is a changeing...
and if yu think that the e con o mine is so good, then why all the gratis to me about puttin toher a deel??
put all yo deels to ghetreh.
jes beein frendly i guss...?
fake it mongs...d e con o mine and yours too, is but to co lapse in to blivy on....
now sit and take a bough....the show is over....
nut a qision of if it claps...but when....
SOP said: "the buttom ling is they gonna b a new moonitary sytem cumming in."
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A new monetary system is not the same thing as Nesarra & all of the things Nesarra promises.
SOP said: "are these the same type of thins the handsum guy was monesthizing?"
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I didn't see any evidence Mr. Hansen was monetizing the debt he had acquired, but that he was attempting to sell properties that he had put liens upon.
mogel said....Just so you know I take you at face value & stricly listen to exactly what you say. Not everyone does that. LOL
LOL!! AMEN TO THAT
SOP said: "and if yu think that the e con o mine is so good, then why all the gratis to me about puttin toher a deel??"
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I didn't say the economy was so good. I said you can make money & buy properties in all economies. If money becomes worthless, the real estate is still valuable. People always have to have a place to live or to vacation at.
You're the one that mentioned that the lady in prison should produce her own note(s). Well that's fine & good, but you need a Buyer of the note or someone to accept it as being valuable. One is no good without the other. Half of a solution is no solution at all.
You're the one that mentioned that the lady in prison should produce her own note(s).
she cant...she dun have asses to a pinter....
da e con o yours is relly good....yep...put yo hansel togher...day gonna claps....
June 28, 2008
Fortis expects bankruptcies amongst 6000 American banks which have a small coverage currently. But also Citigroup, General Motors, there is starting a complete meltdown in the US”
Fortis Bank predicts US Financial market meltdown within weeks…
Fortis is a large bank and insurer in the Netherlands and Belgium. It took over ABN Amro last year, together with RBS and another bank. Last Thursday, its share lost 17% because Fortis attracted foreign capital.
I was shocked when I read the following, which was brought out 4hours ago:
American ‘meltdown’ reason for money injection Fortis.
28th of June, 9:10
BRUSSELS/AMSTERDAM - Fortis expects a complete collapse of the US financial markets within a few days to weeks. That explains, according to Fortis, the series of interventions of last Thursday to retrieve € 8 billion. “We have been saved just in time. The situation in the US is much worse than we thought”, says Fortis chairman Maurice Lippens. Fortis expects bankruptcies amongst 6000 American banks which have a small coverage currently. But also Citigroup, General Motors, there is starting a complete meltdown in the US”
This fits in the picture, with the other press releases last week, like the short advise of Goldman Sachs and some other of the same messages last week.
Although gold has rallied a lot lost week: first thing monday morning: short Dow, long Gold?
Or will there be a rate cut, which undermines (delays) everything?
Original press release:
VOTRON BLIJFT AAN NA GOLF VAN KRITIEK
Amerikaanse ’meltdown’ reden geldinjectie Fortis
28 Jun 08, 09:10
door onze correspondent
BRUSSEL/AMSTERDAM (DFT) - Fortis rekent binnen enkele dagen tot weken op het volledig instorten van de Amerikaanse financiële markten. Dat verklaart volgens de bankverzekeraar de serie ingrepen van donderdag om zich met €8 miljard te versterken. „We zijn op het nippertje gereed. Het gaat in de Verenigde Staten veel slechter dan gedacht”, zegt Fortis-chairman Maurice Lippens, die volhoudt dat topman Votron aanblijft. Fortis verwacht faillissementen onder 6000 Amerikaanse banken die nu weinig dekking hebben. „Maar ook Citigroup, General Motors, er begint een complete meltdown in de VS.”
http://www.dft.nl/bedrijven/fortis/4…ie_Fortis.html
...da china sindrum....3...2....1....
MELTDOWN!!!!!!!
for yo ho dun rember, da movie 'da china syndrome' was about a complete nuclear 'meltdown' of a nrg rector, which would burn a hole troo the erth all the way to the fine dishes.....or plates if yo like....
SOP said: fake it mongs...d e con o mine and yours too, is but to co lapse in to blivy on....
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Oblivion? Real assets, food, real estate, silver, etc. will always have value, despite any huge economic collapse of the monetary system.
The issue isn't whether the economy is going to collapse or how worthless the dollar becomes. I don't doubt that will happen sometime.
The important issue is exactly when will that take place so I can invest or plan accordingly before the fact.
I've heard this doom & gloom stuff since the early 1970's. My parents bought into that & purchased a bunch of gold & silver at the time. The fact is that there were better investments to put their money into at the time. There are several books written on this subject that this huge economic collapse was suppose to happen soon after these books came out. Well almost 50 years later, the economy has not come screeching to a halt. If I believed the advise of those books back in the 1970's, those like Howard Ruff & the like, I would have lost out believing in wrong assumptions.
How many Church cults have predicted the end of the world as we know it & even gave dates when this was going to happen & turned out to be sadly wrong? Even the early Christians in Jesus's time, believed that the end of the world was coming to an end soon, so they neglected their crops & family life. What good did that do them believing in a false thing during their life times?
Citigroup, General Motors, er begint een complete meltdown in de VS.”
yah...it "begint a cumpleet meltdun..."
yo begin to write like me pal....my ritin copywronged©
so if yo gonna rite like me, i gonna "begint' to soo yo ass.....do yo een derstand wha i sain???
Real assets, food, real estate, silver, etc. will always have value, despite any huge economic collapse of the monetary system.
yo rite there, but yo foget one thins on yo list....plenty of M-9's and glocks and plenty of ammo....that yo gonna nedd if yo got all that stuff and a meltup ocries.....o' yo gona defense on the please to defense yo???? LOL!!
day be ppls ritin in da steets if dat hoppens...yo shiva and goats....forget about it!
no good duriing marital law....which will hoppens if day is a real meltown...
ven the early Christians in Jesus's time, believed that the end of the world was coming to an end soon, so they neglected their crops & family life. What good did that do them believing in a false thing during their life times?
the problem with this thihking now mogs is that the "fig tree is ripened" you know that summer (the end) is near...
sop used to say, that wehn the fig tree ripened, ie., israel became a nation again after 2500 years, the end time clock starting to tick FOR REAL....so, ever since may 14, 1948 we have been on a real collision course with the end time clock...you can slice it anyway you want...the early christians may not have had hs wisdom that some have today....and itts nohting that can be proven....it would be given knowledge by the hs as slop would say...you cant read it in the bible, or you can read it ,but will not interpret it coorectly....
why do you tink that all the properity porgrams, hiyps, etc are all reddy to pay out?//
becasue it not about the meony anymore....the ptb want to focus on the spirit...ho esle they goanna get teh ac to come in????
its just plain and simple not about the money anymore....
i will take the money tho...not saying that i wont...just saying that ones awareness must stay one step ahead of the reasons that things happen.....and givvine some the meny will allow them to focus on the next aspect of it... the spirtiual side of things...that why sloop alreddy assended....
in the past, the ptb wanted to control ppl phyuscially...but now, they gonna give you the meny, bcoss they now want to controll you spitually....and the only way is by givine you the meny to take yo mind off of pysical lavor....
SOP said: "but not before the rapture/assencion wehn all the crisians are gone.."
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You see this is one of the fallacies that is taught & WIDELY BELIEVED. All Christians are gone? Only the evil people left on this earth to suffer from all of the calamaties with all the good people saved from all calamity, being safe of course in heaven.
When in the history of the earth have only the wicked been punished soley with no innocent blood to spill in a fight?
Even in the flood of Noah, the Lord didn't take ALL the good people away from the earth, NEVER TO RETURN AGAIN, but saved 8 of them to continue the posterity of the earth.
Even if you believe in the rapture as it is taught, why would all of these raptured people come back to earth, or even want to? The way I understand the rapture teachings is that they are already in heaven & have no reason to come back to this earth & don't.
So who's going to populate the earth during the great Millinium of a 1000 years of peace? Evil people that survied the calamities? LOL Survivors of evil people are going to create a utopian society? Not!!!!!!!!
What about the great War of Gog & Magog after the 1000 years of peace when the Devil is "loosed again for a season" before the end of the 2nd world (Earth) as we know it? Who's going to fight that battle if all the Christians are gone from this earth, safely tucked away in heaven, never to return?
The stupidest show I ever saw I saw last night on television, entitled "The Rapture". I think everyone should watch it for it's entertainment value. The protagonist shoots her child in the head so she could be with God; she & her child abandoned their home & went to the mountains with no provisions or food believing that God was going to rapture her & her child very soon. When that never happened on her time frame, she beliving that she had received a revelation from God to go to the desert & WAIT, she grew cold towards God even though most of the time during the movie, she was this devout & believing & of course a saved Christian. She ended up getting raptured from jail, with another saved Christian in her cell, but she was taken to some place other than Heaven even though she was raptured & in the end, knowing that her fate was to be punished for all eternity because she wouldn't say that she loved God & even despite her dead child begging her to do that & say that only once, since that was the only necessary thing to save her from eternity to eternity. She of course stopped loving God, even though she was saved, because God didn't perform the rapture in her time frame she expected, so she hated God in the desert & never overcame that. Her expectations & impatience caused her to shoot her daughter in the head with a revolver she took up into the mountains, thinking that God was late in his promises, so she was going to be in a beter place, being in Heaven with her martyred husband who was shot in the chest earlier by his psychotic employee. Course the plan was to shoot herself too right after killing her daughter first, so both could be with God, but she didn't have the courage to that. Great Christian movie to watch & a powerful title to entice you to watch the movie: "THE RAPTURE" It was on the "Independent Film Channel" for those that need to watch a really bad movie. LOL
why do you tink that all the properity porgrams, hiyps, etc are all reddy to pay out?//
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Why do you think that 99% of all HYIP promoted on the internet are scams? Why do you think that 99% of all people that promote HYIP are also people with little net worth NOW? Why do you think that 99% of all HYIP fail in the first 2 years of management? Couldn't be because it's a poorly managed ponzi or pyramid scheme, could it?
Know anyone that invests in HYIP & recommends them that is financially recognized in the Forbes most richest people?
If you think you've found a legitimate HYIP, & it is, just count on the government squashing it.
Has investing in HYIP changed your lifestyle where you don't have to work anymore? Enough said.
My goodness. You stand a better chance of hitting the lottery.
"The meek shall inherit the Earth".
If those that are "twinkled" by the rapture are gone, what is there to inherit?
Maybe the Bible should have read:
"The meek shall be raptured." LOL
mogel....
"The meek shall inherit the Earth".
If those that are "twinkled" by the rapture are gone, what is there to inherit?
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Exactly...Your Kingdom COME, your will be done on EARTH as it is in Heaven.
But Christians today want to fly away.
SOP says: "complete collapse of the US financial markets within a few days to weeks."
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How many times can you yell Fox, before the townspeople won't come to save you from the Fox that is going to eat you up when the real Fox comes because the town is so tired of hearing disinformation & bad jokes?
A few weeks from now will come & be gone, & this will be just yet another forecast of gloom & doom that doesn't happen timely & people have been manipulated wrongly once again by speculation & articles that only incite panic & a lack of confidence?
You want the economy to continue & people to prosper? Than maybe panic is the last thing you would even want to ever consider to introduce & maybe not even then if you're even correct.
Belief of Stability of the System is necessary to continue economic growth & keep the System from collapsing.
If you see a guy in a car wreck & he is hemoraging badly from a loss of blood, & his face is all cut up & he asks you how he looks, what do you think is the intelligent thing to say? Are you going to tell him, he has hours to live & cause him to die from a heart attack by his panic? Or maybe a mirror is the tool of choice here?
"But Christians today want to fly away."
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Ostrich, put your head in the sand, type of thinking maybe?
It's much more flattering to believe a lie, don't you think?
If you tell your Church following, that the road is going to be tough & rough, & you may not make it, do you think that will increase Church contributions?
Jesus is talking to his friends/apostles about his friends/believers & the precausions they should take in the last days PRIOR TO HIS GREAT JUDGMENTS.
Mark 13: 8: "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the BEGINNINGS OF SORROWS.
9: "BUT TAKE HEED TO YOURSELVES; FOR THEY SHALL DELIVER YOU UP TO COUNCILS; AND IN THE SYNAGOGUES YE SHALL BE BEATEN: AND YE SHALL BE BROUGHT BEFORE RULERS AND KINGS FOR MY SAKE, for a testimony against them.
A testimony of the wicked against the wicked? Nope!!!!! Jesus will allow you to be beaten for his word, but will save you later in a twinkling of an eye in the rapture?
12. "Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death."
13. "And ye shall be hated of all men for MY NAME'S SAKE; but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
WHAT POINT IS THERE OF ENDURANCE IF THE RAPTURE SAVES YOU?
14. Let them that be in Judea, flee to the mountains;
WHY FLEE TO THE MOUNTAINS, IF YOU CAN FLY AWAY IN THE RAPTURE & BE SAFE?
15. And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing, out of his house;
WHAT? SOME DEVOUT CHRISTIANS WON'T BE SAFE BY GOING BACK TO THE EVIL CITIES?
17. But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
YOU MEAN PREGNANT CHRISTIAN MOTHERS AREN'T EVEN SAFE?
18. And pray ye that your flight is NOT IN THE WINTER.
IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE RAPTURED, & SAFE, WHAT DOES THE SEASONS HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?
19. For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, NETHER SHALL BE.
IF I DON'T FEEL SAFE TODAY, WHY WOULD I FEEL SAFE THEN?
20. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, NO FLESH SHOULD BE SAVED; but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
33. Take heed, watch & pray: for ye know not when the time is.
WHY WATCH IF ALL CHRISTIANS ARE SAFE THROUGH THE RAPTURE?
35-36. Watch therefore; lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
SO IF YOU ARE SLEEPING, YOU WON'T BE RAPTURED?
Don't get me wrong, I believe the very elect will meet Jesus up in the clouds when he comes again in judgment & they will be changed from mortality to immortality in a twinkling of an eye, but to say that all Christians are safe from all calamities in those judgment years & they are suddenly flown to heaven at that time & never return to earth to face any challenges , is just pure nonsense & is not scripturally based thinking.
So who's going to populate the earth during the great Millinium of a 1000 years of peace? Evil people that survied the calamities? LOL Survivors of evil people are going to create a utopian society?
mongs, yo tuped too much there to address all at once adn i am tired now...
the millenium will occur, just not the way you expect....take it how yo wnat from slop...
the rapture will occur...or assenstin, whaver yo wnat to call it...
then, 7 yaer triblusion....
3 1/2 years in, the AC appers.....walks in the jooish temple, with a gorge forman grill..... furs up the grill and roasts a pig on the altar....no cramberry sorce...yuk....this the abdomination of desaltation as they call it...
3 1/2 years later...end of tribulsion....as sop called him, yeshua comes back with His fightin' saints and put evil down....thus begins the 1000 year millenial kingdom...the true mk, not the phony one that many now will be fooled into bleiving... "i will send them strong delusion so that they beleive the lie"...because all they life they rejected the truth...so its like...heres the lie, do yourslef up with it.....enjoy
after 1000 years of no evil, or should i say, that the saints will be givne the power to judge evil on the sop.....so, like on the spot, if slop was here and he saw someone doing evil, its like...no second chance..no fifth amendment...no appeal...slop would have power to say..."see ya" bye......evil will be judged on the spot....nothing sloppy about it...
after 1000 years of relative sinless living, then gog is relesed for the final battle of armageddon....at which natch, the saints prevail and gog is bound in chains for eterntiy....follwoin which a new heaven and new earth are created...nice....
for all things were passed away.....
and evil was no more
heaven made of a shiny amber glass...no sun was needed fo rthe light of god was enuf...etc...etc....
basically, thats it....
but before all this...
the "2 witnesses" msut apper...preaching the gospel of the kingdom
grace is about finished...now yo will pay for yo sins...no more free pass.....better hope that yo hiyups pay out!
and even now, as everthing casts a "shadow" there exist and are living today, the predecessors of the 2 witnesses whom only jimmy noone will listen to...becaues it appears that what they say is "nonsense"....and you know that jimmy noone is a nobody....
better listine to what slop used to say....yo dont want to be like jimmy noone....
but to say that all Christians are safe from all calamities in those judgment years &
the rapture is NOT saying that all christians are safe from all clamites...they are dying everyday....it is saying that a remnant of those left who manage to survive all the calamities will be taken to the clouds....the ac cannot appear while christian are still on the earth...somehting slip siad that one eitehr understands or one doesnt...weve been thru all this before...sop isnt here and i wont get into the quoete scrip for scriip becsue as slop said...its not about the scirp, its about he interpretation thereof....sbuject to the hs wisdom
Notarial Dissent said: "And you have obviously missed the point that there has to be some basis in reality before anything can happen. There wasn’t any,
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HERE'S THE BASIS IN REALITY & FILED FOR THE WHOLE WORLD TO EXAMINE & SEE.
No, I didn't miss the all important point & fact. The all important point is that a challenge was made to the financial institutions to prove they gave a legitimate loan. They didn't, they can't, they never will & a default was gotten through an administrative process against the financial institutions by the paper trail created & affirmed by a Notary. That's the elephant of FACT I see in the corner that doesn't go away & that Sigfried, Roy & Notarial can't hide or disappear.
the strangest thing...just after i made these posts here, i actually went to check on one of the nosira site and yo wont bleive what i read!!!!
for june 30, 2008
hrere it is:
"As you know, the time will soon come when Sananda-Jesua will be able to make his appearance among you before going to Jerusalem. However, it is our understanding that peace must be declared in that part of the world before these great historic events will take place.
so there it is!!! the ptb are gong to annoucne jesua/yeshua/jesus whaver yo wnat to call him soon...
ok mongs...then this waht the world order is announcing..then my QUESTION to you is:
do you bleive that this will be jesua/yeshua/jesus etc?????
your answer is extremely important....
if you dont knw the truth, then like jepardy game, either answer loses.....
so whats it gaonna be...will that be yeshua thats gong to jersualem?????
see, ppl who bleive like you wont be able to hold out...they will get trapped...can you see why???
i am gong to sleep now...but you thing about it...how/why will ppl be fooled by this stuff....is it as easy as saying no, it wnt be him..but then what will be the consequence of ssaying no???
or will you go along and say/bleive that its yeshua???
see your dilemma if you dont knw the truth????
pray that the hs gives you much wisdom in the very near future...like yesterday!
the men from the boys...
the wheat from the tares...
the major leaguers from the minor leaguers...
they all gonna get separated real soooon!
Notarial cried: They certainly wouldn’t release a TD that hadn’t been paid off.
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There was a case in Illinois where the lender discharged the debt because the lender had so many TILA violations they committed. The alleged loan was NEVER PAID OFF BY THE BORROWER, so WRONG AGAIN.
The Judge threatened the lending institution & told them to settle this before the next hearing took place. The lender settled it with a free & clear title & the borrower never paid off the obligation.
CERTAINLY, you shouldn't be so absolute in yout thinking.
see your dileema if you bleive that the millenial kingdom can come in w/o the real jesus????
how will you recognize the real jesus???
ans. you cant...only hte hs can..OR those with the hs...you cant study for this test by reading the bible...you either have it or you dont!
SOP said: "do you bleive that this will be jesua/yeshua/jesus etc?????"
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HEAVENS NO!!!!!!!
evil will be judged on the spot....nothing sloppy about it...
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Scripture justifying this doctrine, please!
SOP says: "the rapture will occur...or assenstin, whaver yo wnat to call it...
then, 7 yaer triblusion....
______________________________
Please prove that chronological order by scriptures.
gog is relesed for the final battle of armageddon....at which natch, the saints prevail and gog is bound in chains for eterntiy..
_______________________________
Who says Gog is the Devil? Scripture please.
yeshua comes back with His fightin' saints and put evil down....thus begins the 1000 year millenial kingdom...
_________________________________
Are you saying that Jesus comes back with his fighting saints who are obviously now resurrected immortal beings to put evil down here on earth? No mortals are going to be coming back with Jesus.
Are these the Christian saints that were "recently raptured" that you are referring to? Who exactly are the "fighting saints"? Any scriptures you can refer to talking about these "fighting saints"? Are they from New Orleans?
In the Dear victim letter of June 26, 2008 update from Dept. of Justice we read:
"If you were NOT INCLUDED in any of the Judgment/Resitution Orders, it was most likely due to us not receiving documeted proof of loss, in which you were DIRECTLY involved in the fraudulent scheme."
Hey with three letters now with my name being addressed as a victim,
the evidence is mounting that the Dept. of Justice considers me a victim. What are they going to do, take away my Victim Identification number & PIN & declare otherwise down the road?
Were't all clients directly involved? According to Notarial Dissent, EVERYONE WAS TOUCHED BY THE FRAUD that participated in any way or who was affected by the so called scheme. It appears the Dept. of Justice is suggesting differently suggesting that only direct involvement means filing a claim & proving it. What claims were filed & proved in the criminal trial for DIRECT PROOF?
Does a client have to file papers in order to prove direct involvement? Isn't direct involvement a given if you got a letter & a log in VIN number & PIN number?
The word "directly" was put in black bold letters. LOL
What are they saying here? Are they meaning to say, if your name isn't included for payment in any restitution program ajudicated by the Court, that you could be part of the conspiracy & may be guilty of mail fraud too?
Or do they mean to say that you aren't DIRECTLY involved if you don't file a claim, but isn't direct involvement assumed when a dear victim letter is sent?
With all the misinformation or disinformation, from the US Dept. of Justice on this case, should I DIRECTLY care?
"Please Note that you may have been ordered restitution to be paid by one OR MORE of the defendants involved in this case. If you were not included in the most recent Heineman Restitution Order, the reason may be because you were included in one of the OTHER defendant's Restitution Order."
"Additionally due to the length prison terms received by some of the defendants in this case, it may take MANY YEARS before you receive ANY PAYMENTS towards the amount awarded to you."
By the way, what's the present value today of $3,000 collected in one lump sum 25 years from now, assuming the cost of money is 5%? Not hard to figure out for you finance majors out there. Not very much is it? Assuming clients are victims, is this justice? My goodness didn't the FBI confiscate hundreds of thousands of dollars in the U.S. banks & one bank confiscated millions of dollars in a wire transfer from Latvia & this takes many years to distribute to victims? Yep, the Dept. of Justice & the FBI have the clients best interests at heart, don't they? LOL
"Since there are over 500 victims in this case, I hope the information provided in this letter will be of assistance."
Only about 500 victims huh? This must include financial institutions, title companies, & any one touched by the fraud, according to Notarial Dissent. Doesn't leave much money left for clients in the best scenario case.
The VNS (victims notification system) website is designed to provide you with information regarding the case. The Website: www.notify.usdoj.gov
"While this enforcement benefits you as a victim of a crime, neither the United States Attorney's Office, nor the Dept. of Justice, nor any employee thereof, is your attorney."
WHAT? You mean they aren't my advocate looking after my best interest as a victim?
"The United States Attorney's Office will not SEEK YOUR CONSENT to any action it may undertake to pursue enforcement of the restitution order."
Well, didn't they seek my consent when they wanted proof of wrong doing?
"A restitution order contained in a judgment Order is enforceable for a minimum of 20 years."
Does it take that long to collect upon due to the pace of government? LOL
"The ability to obtain enforcement of the restitution order will be limited by the defendant's economic circumstance."
What's the pay rate in federal prison these days making license plates or ironing clothes?
"The United States Attorney's Office cannot consult with your regarding your individual rights to pursue civil litigation against a defendant. You may wish to consult with a private attorney to obtain information about your ability to proceed against a defendant to recover losses or damages you sustained as a resuilt of this crime."
YEA, SOUNDS LIKE THEY HAVE ALOT OF CONFIDENCE IN EFFECTING PAYMENT BY THEMSELVES. INSTEAD THEY REFER YOU TO CIVIL LITIGATION. SOUNDS LIKE THE D.O.J. IS AS GOOD AS A COURT APPOINTED LAWYER.
WARNING! The Victim Notification System is the property of the United States Department of Justice. The Department may monitor ANY ACTIVITY on the system and retrieve any information stored with the system. By accessing this computer system you are consenting to system monitoring for law enforcement and OTHER PURPOSES. Unauthorized use of, or access to, this computer system may subject you to criminal prosecution and penalties."
Isn't anything private anymore, EVEN THE VICTIMS RIGHTS? LOL
Hey what about this right according to the 1st letter from the D.O.J:
"the right to FULL and TIMELY restitution as provided in the law."
Course the other letter reads:
"Unless the court has ordered otherwise, any recovery obtained will be distributed to all designated victims IN PROPORTION TO THEIR LOSSES."
Which lie is the truth?
Course the first letter gives this right:
"The right to be treated with fairness and with RESPECT FOR THE VICTIM'S DIGNITY AND PRIVACY."
Yet they tell me with a disclaimer warning at their website:
WARNING:
Any information can be used without respect for dignity or privacy. ANY D.O.J. PURPOSE IS SUPERIOR TO DIGNITY AND PRIVACY RIGHTS OF THE VICTIM IF THEY SO DEEM.
Again, which statement is true & which statement is the lie? Both statements can't be true. Each letter contradites the other.
Way to go Deborah Kusber, you are gaining the trust of dorean clients one statement at a time, I mean one lie told at a time.
When "contradites" looks like the spelling of "contradicts," it's time to go to bed.
just Moogie
If it's so CLEAR to you, than why would all client take such risks & join the process if it is as simplistic as you say & as clear as you say from beginning to end?
Does the word desperation mean anything to you?? The whole basis of this con was to prey on desperate and naive people who were hoping for a solution to a very bad problem, which makes it even more heinous than it was otherwise. Desperate people will do stupid things, like become involved with the Dorean Group or some other guru who promises to magically end their problems.
Moogie trying to twist things to his advantage, and failing
Are you saying that all clients were just PLAIN stupid because the ENTIRE THING WAS FRAUD FROM A TO Z? Are you calling all dorean clients RETARDS now? I'm sure in all fairness, you should get a backlash from this comment.
Since you know quite well, that that not only is not what I said, or what I meant. Trying to twist my words does nothing for your culpability in any of this. The above, are yours, and Kurt’s words not mine. I said the “clients” were victims.
Moogie missing it again
The point I'm trying to make is that if no clients ever complained, I don't believe the idea of the dorean process being a scam or being mail fraud would have ever been believed by the Jury.
Oh give it a break Moogs, the jury saw it for exactly what it was, a slimy con put forth by two slimy individuals preying on people who were desperate and probably didn’t know any better. You may be that dumb, oh wait, you’re still shilling this crap, so you are that dumb, but the jury certainly wasn’t.
Moogie the legal eagle or maybe that is beagle
Sounds like "double jeopardy" to me of reinstating the same claim that was dropped if not an abuse of the legal process in the least. There are time restraints to follow in the system also that reinstatement would violate also.
Sounds like, as usual, you don’t have a clue, but then when did you ever. Your vaunted ignorance is showing again, "double jeopardy" occurs, ONLY if there has been a trial on the charges, there hasn’t been. The other term you can’t quite wrap your feeble mind around is “statute of limitations” and they have 10 years to prosecute so I wouldn’t go holding my breath now if I were you.
Moogie still can’t read
We at least agree that dropping the charges EQUATES to innocence.
In a pig’s eye we do!!!!!!!
Moogie still holding the party line
HERE'S THE BASIS IN REALITY & FILED FOR THE WHOLE WORLD TO EXAMINE & SEE. The all important point is that a challenge was made to the financial institutions to prove they gave a legitimate loan.
And here’s the little bit of reality that you can’t seem to get around, the lenders have the note, they have the trust deed, and they have the loan agreement, that is sufficient proof, that and the fact that the borrowers have been paying on it since it was issued. The lenders had valid loans, and documentation to back them up. If there was a defect or fraud, the courts were the arena in which to have dealt with it. There is no “administrative process” that can break those documents. It has to be before a judge or it is just so much nonsense, which of course was exactly what the Dorean Process was. Our system of law does not work otherwise.
Moogie comparing apples and oranges
There was a case in Illinois where the lender discharged the debt because the lender had so many TILA violations they committed.
And the point was that the lender filed the discharges, not someone with a concocted power of attorney, and the releases were done, curiously that, at judicial order, again so much for your nonsense.
Moogie trying for a funny
What are they going to do, take away my Victim Identification number & PIN & declare otherwise down the road?
Well, I guess the question would be then, did you file a proof of loss???, did you read the declarations against perjury very carefully??? are you capable of making an honest statement to begin with???
Moogie oblivious
Were't all clients directly involved? According to Notarial Dissent, EVERYONE WAS TOUCHED BY THE FRAUD that participated in any way or who was affected by the so called scheme.
And yet again the Moogster cannot keep his lies straight. I said all the clients were involved in the fraud by virtue of participating in the process, their level of involvement in the actual fraud would depend on what they knew and what their intent was. I would suspect that the majority were unaware that they were participating in an act of fraud. You had better learn to read more closely Moogs. You can be a victim of the fraud and still a willing participant in parts of it, which can send you to jail just as quickly as the masterminds behind it. They are asking for proof of loss, and any false statements can and will come back to haunt you.
They printed the available funds Moogs, so don’t go fantasizing about things that didn’t happen.
Moogie incredulous
Only about 500 victims huh? This must include financial institutions, title companies, & any one touched by the fraud, according to Notarial Dissent. Doesn't leave much money left for clients in the best scenario case.
Since I haven’t seen the list I wouldn’t know, my understanding from seeing an edited version is that it includes clients and some businesses, you are right about one thing, no one is going to get much back out of this, and I haven’t heard if there was a prioity assigned or not.
said Moogie in amazement
WHAT? You mean they aren't my advocate looking after my best interest as a victim?
Not quite as dumb as you appear.
Moogie oblivious
Well, didn't they seek my consent when they wanted proof of wrong doing?
No, they asked if you had been defrauded and how much.
Moogie missing the obvious
Does it take that long to collect upon due to the pace of government? LOL
What are they going to collect on, the .13 an hour the dim duo will get for working in the license plate plan?
Moogie trying to sound profound
YEA, SOUNDS LIKE THEY HAVE ALOT OF CONFIDENCE IN EFFECTING PAYMENT BY THEMSELVES. INSTEAD THEY REFER YOU TO CIVIL LITIGATION. SOUNDS LIKE THE D.O.J. IS AS GOOD AS A COURT APPOINTED LAWYER.
Since there isn’t much left, there isn’t going to be much to pay back with, and since the actual likelihood of dim and dimmer ever having more than a spare dime between them, the prospects of actually recovering anything is like nonexistent.
Notarial Dissent adds: Does the word desperation mean anything to you??
_____________________________
Sure does. That would account for many of the homes being foreclosed upon. Some merely ran out of solutions or money to pay the mortgage. They would have lost their homes anyway, but now, the so called victim, has a scapegoat to blame all of their financial ineptness & budgeting plans upon, don't they? Hey it's never my fault, it's always someone else's fault.
Course it BECAME the policy after a certain date not long after the Dorean Group really got going, NOT to take clients who were already in foreclosure & clients were suppose to be current with their mortgage when they entered the process. Taking advantage of people's situation was not what it was all about.
Notarial Dissent: double jeopardy" occurs, ONLY if there has been a trial on the charges, there hasn’t been.
_______________________________
So a criminal trial alleging bank fraud or conspiracy to commit bank fraud never happened & count # 1 is a figmant of my imagination too since bank fraud was never an issue at the criminal trial? You're only giving more credence to Kurt's appeal with statements like you make.
Notarial Dissent: I said the “clients” were victims
________________________________
Yes, I know, the D.O.J. refers to me as a victim too & has given me a victim number & a PIN # to access their website so I can learn of all the developments as they happen. Three letters to date referring to me as a victim. Victim today, defendant tomorrow, and hero next week. Its' all in a week's work.
Notarial Dissent said: "And here’s the little bit of reality that you can’t seem to get around, the lenders have the note, they have the trust deed, and they have the loan agreement, that is sufficient proof, that and the fact that the borrowers have been paying on it since it was issued.
_______________________________
They have the note? Funny, I demanded a copy of the original note & they refused to present it to me. Don't believe they have the original note, kind of think they don't have it or they LOST IT, SOLD IT, OR MAYBE THREW IT IN THE GARBAGE CAN ACCIDENTLY. LOL
Don't believe all borrowers are paying on it WITHOUT ANY PROTEST disclaimers every month when they make a payment.
By the way, the trust deed is NOT EVIDENCE OR PROOF OF A DEBT, THE PROMISSORY NOTE IS. Remember the deed of trust is the paperwork to secure the debt, not evidence of the debt. And you think I know nothing about real estate!!!!
Loan agreement? No, an agreement or contract is signed by both parties. The lender never signed the so called agreement. How's that for a reality check?
So if I pay a ransom or pay under duress of foreclosure or any other threat, this is a legally binding contract?
Didn't you say receiving monies under false circumstances or false promises, constitutes fraud & a fraudulent scheme can't stand up EVER & is not enforceable? It's not about the payments. The payments might even be usurious.
"Loan agreement" is a misnomer. The lender agreed to give a loan & technically never did. If the whole agreement wasn't performed, the entire contract can be voided.
So are extorted payments proof of a legally bound contract that is enforceable SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY WERE PAID EVERY MONTH?
Any scriptures you can refer to talking about these "fighting saints"? Are they from New Orleans?
LOL!!! NO!!! THOES PPL WEAR BAGS OVER THEY HEADS...THEY ARE CALLED THE "AINTS" IF I REMBER CORRECTLY!!!!
as far as quotin the scrip goes...like sloop use to say...it much too late for that now...its all there in the babble...yo just nedd to to there and fine it and interpret it that way.
and btw, i used to term fitin saints...that term is not used there...but same difference...these now immortal humans in the millenaial kingdom will have spiritual bodis and they will judge evil on the spot....if yo do evil, they will make juggin beans look like capt. kangaloo...or mr. rogets...a very nice hamless man...
here dat juggins?...look that up in yo dinasaurus......
mogel said...
Yet they tell me with a disclaimer warning at their website:
WARNING:
Any information can be used without respect for dignity or privacy. ANY D.O.J. PURPOSE IS SUPERIOR TO DIGNITY AND PRIVACY RIGHTS OF THE VICTIM IF THEY SO DEEM.
__________________________________
JUST AS THE LORD SAID: "YOU'RE JUST LIKE YOUR FATHER THE devil...HE IS A LIAR AND THE FATHER OF LIES"
THESE ARE OUR HEROES OF JUSTICE ACCORDING TO THE NIEVE NAYSAYERS.
REMINDS ME OF MY FAVORITE MOVIE:
Agent Smith: We're willing to wipe the slate clean, give you a fresh start. All that we're asking in return is your cooperation in bringing a known terrorist to justice.
Neo: Yeah. Well, that sounds like a pretty good deal. But I think I may have a better one. How about, I give you the finger
[He does]
..... and you give me my phone call.
THE MATRIX
WAHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! CAN'T WAIT!!!!
Byron you're deliberately confused about TILA cases:
"The Judge threatened the lending institution & told them to settle this before the next hearing took place. The lender settled it with a free & clear title & the borrower never paid off the obligation."
No, not quite as you're trying to depict it - you're leaving out what actually happens.
In TILA rescission cases the parties are restored to their previous status as if the loan was never made.
Which means, if the property had a previous mortgage holder (or in rare cases, property owner) that had been paid off by the TILA-violating lender who did your refi, that original lien holder's interest in the property is restored.
That original mortgage holder returns to the refi lender any funds they received in the transaction. The refi lender returns whatever the borrower has paid them and the borrower is right back where he or she was before the loan was ever made.
It's rescission - not elimination.
Gashler, you're so easily confused by even marginally complex legal issues that I have to repeat myself:
Get an attorney.
You're doing the equivalent of a do-it-yourself vasectomy; the results are always bad.
Judge Bean asked: "So what part of the charges were false?"
_____________________________
All of them.
from the eyetaliam woman ho culd here rayfio singals in her haid named ann tenna, to the eyetalian guy who who always prepared spoiled rotten food, sal monella...way to go sal!
Judge said: "It's rescission - not elimination."
______________________________
It amounted to the same thing when you no longer have to make anymore monthly payments, with no potential problems from the lender, as in this particular IL case.
The question was asked can you get a mortgage discharged without having to make all of the mortgage payments? The answer is yes. I provided an example. This client got a credit in essence due to all of the damages that accrued, which cancelled out the mortgage amount claiming to be due. In the end, the client got a deed of reconveyance or discharge of the indebtedness voluntarily done by the lender WITHOUT PAYING ALL OF THE PAYMENTS DUE ON THE MORTGAGE AGREEMENT OR NOTE.
All I was doing was responding to an alleged statement of fact, which wasn't necessarily a statement of fact. Not sure what who you are arguing with since I didn't talk about the things that you discussed at all.
what really funny is if yo look in whit pages fun book, yo can rely fine ppls with deese 2 names.....
maybee ann tenna sho marry sal monella.....
and what would yo get?
Judge said: "Get an attorney."
_________________________________
Mail fraud is a complex issue? Maybe Kurt was right, the mail fraud statute is so vague. Another legal defense of his, which you agree with obviously.
Maybe I have created a picture with all the contradictions & B.S. I've discovered, learned, & found so far to make it that way.
The abortion done by the prosecution in the criminal case has made their job pretty difficult & complex I'll admit.
Judge Alsup may need an attorney along with the U.S. prosecutors who handled this case.
Simple solution, you have a potential legal problem, get an attorney. Attorneys seem to just mess things up & then seem to take the lion share of monies when all the dust settles.
Attorneys were listed as one of the major influences of the down fall of the ancient race of the Americas (Nephites) that were killed off by their enemies (the Lamanites) according to the Book of Mormon since the lawyers of the day were always stirring up the people against each other due to the contentions, and issues they created.
The world would be a better place without any attorneys & you think I should get one?
...a spoil rotten cupful ho could here evertins dat go on in da nayboho....
Notarial Dissent said: "The other term you can’t quite wrap your feeble mind around is “statute of limitations” and they have 10 years to prosecute so I wouldn’t go holding my breath now if I were you."
__________________________________
No, I wasn't referring to "statute of limitations" pertaining only to the crime itself, & how many years can transpire befeore you can bring a court action, I was referering to court rules of time restraints, like one rule is that you have so many days to serve papers prior to the court hearing, or you have so many days to file a motion before a hearing, or so many days to bring charges to trial to not violate the speedy trial act, etc.
Notarial Dissent said: "And the point was that the lender filed the discharges, not someone with a concocted power of attorney, and the releases were done, curiously that, at judicial order, again so much for your nonsense."
_________________________________
Not exactly a Judicial order, that was forthcoming though had the lender not have quickly acted. The Judge threatened the lender, but oh no, WE DIDN'T SEE THAT SPECIAL ORDER SIGNED BY THE JUDGE YET. The lender felt the order was coming & acted accordingly & didn't want to be ordered to pay MORE DAMAGES. They wanted to minimize their loss.
Remember when I talked about that concept before? Scott did the lenders a favor by discharging the mortgages of record by minimizes the lenders loss by doing the right thing for the lender. Course when the lenders foreclosed on dorean clients anyway, well, this minimization efforts done by Scott become a slap in the face & the lenders undid the benefits that Scott created as an agent looking after the lenders best interests by minimizes potential damages.
You know what they say, You can lead a jackass to water, but you can't make him drink.
Notarial Dissent said: "did you read the declarations against perjury very carefully???"
______________________________
On you mean the DUNNING "form letter" just sent out wrecklessly by some secretary out of the office of the D.O.J NOT INTENDING TO BE ANY LEGAL DOCUMENT?
You really think that's a good idea SIGNING UNDER THE PENALTY OF PERJURY, when even the D.O.J. can't determine exactly how many victims there are, how is a victim IS DETERMINED, WHO ARE THE VICTIMS FOR SURE & for how long A PERSON CAN REMAIN ON THIS VICTIM STATUS?
I wouldn't touch this VAGUE THING with a ten foot pole. Not in the least interested in playing games with people that are professionals at it.
Notarial Dissent said: "And yet again the Moogster cannot keep his lies straight. I said all the clients were involved in the fraud by virtue of participating in the process, their level of involvement in the actual fraud would depend on what they knew and what their intent was."
_________________________________
Which criminal trial did you watch? Certainly not the Dorean Group's trial. That's NOT how the prosecution argued things. As you say, "in a pigs eye".
Notarial Dissent said: "They are asking for proof of loss, and any false statements can and will come back to haunt you."
__________________________________
Yea I know, Kurt & Scott asked for the same things of proof of loss & wanted statements under oath too.
All they got was the silent treatment from all the parties involved.
Yes silence or actions of fraud will in the end come back to haunt everyone who lied or who perpetuated lies through silence.
Notarial Dissent said: "The other term you can’t quite wrap your feeble mind around is “statute of limitations” and they have 10 years to prosecute so I wouldn’t go holding my breath now if I were you."
I WOULDNT WORRY ABOUT THAT....UNLESS ALL OF THESE JOKERS THAT WERE INVOLVED IN THE PROSECUTION...INCLUDING THE HEAD PROSECUTER (POSING AS A JUDGE)...UNLESS THESE PEOPLE REPENT AND HUMBLY TURN TO THEIR CREATOR, MY GUESS IS THE CREATOR MIGHT FORCE THEN INTO EARLY RETIREMENT.
ONCE THE LORD CLOSES AND SEALS A CASE, ITS SEALED...PERIOD.
PSALM 37:20-26
20 But the wicked shall perish;
And the enemies of the LORD,
Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish.
Into smoke they shall vanish away.
21 The wicked borrows and does not repay (JUST LIKE WHAT THE BANKS DO TO US)
But the righteous shows mercy and gives.
22 For those blessed by Him shall inherit the earth,
But those cursed by Him shall be cut off.
23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD,
And He delights in his way.
24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down;
For the LORD upholds him with His hand.
25 I have been young, and now am old;
Yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken,
Nor his descendants begging bread.
26 He is ever merciful, and lends;
And his descendants are blessed.
Notarial Dissent said: "They printed the available funds Moogs, so don’t go fantasizing about things that didn’t happen."
_______________________________
You sound like my bank, giving me a balance, and an available balance. They aren't the same thing.
Millions of dollars were confiscated. That doesn't equate to only 500 clients or victims the DOJ pretends to exist.
The UCC-1 filings has close to a 1000 clients if I'm estimating accurately. Dorean Group if I'm not mistaken estimated about 5,000 total clients, so if the D.O.J. wants to only say there is 1/10 of the numbers as a reality, than that's about as believable when the IRS says that 92% of the population are tax compliant or the statistics that say that the average FICO score in the country is somewhere around 675. Don't believe that either. There's propaganda, & then there's the truth.
psalm 37:
27 Depart from evil, and do good;
And dwell forevermore (SEE, THERES HOPE FOR THESE PEOPLE, THEY JUST HAVE TO REPENT..THATS ALL)
28 For the LORD loves justice,
And does not forsake His saints;
They are preserved forever,
But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
29 The righteous shall inherit the land,
And dwell in it forever.
HEY NEO, HOW COME YOU NEVER QUOTE THESE KIND OF SCRIPTURES?...THERE ALL OVER THE BIBLE....YOUR A REAL CHRISTIAN AREN'T YOU? IT DONT GET AS PLAIN AS THAT.
10 YEARS FROM NOW SOME OF YOU WILL LOOK BACK AND STILL BE SAYING TO YOURSELVES.."HOW THE HELL DID THEY DO IT?"
those nosira sites yooze sum really wired names for chirst....
i meen...jesua, sananda, esu, ashtar, (ishtar/easter?), etc., etc..
none of em is even close, excetp maybe wehn they refer to krist as the "archangel micheal"....this does have sum scriptrual basis...as it will technically be the archangel micheal taht will come donw with that no. awlins team and krush evil on earth.....
"and the dragon (bruce lee) and his angles fawt, and the archangel michael (kwai-chang caine/the legend) kiked they *ss out of haven" down to earth...
so they found out...ho goo is yo kung-fu? now we no..... "i am caine...i will help you..."
"...go to chinatown...ask for caine..."
an wile yo at it...nosira refers to christ as "esu"...i wonder if they are misspeling it...are they really fooling people and talking about "esau"....obivously a hose of a diffnt coolor....
house of esau = today palstins...they will all bae destroyed......durng the trib
dont eat the tomatos by sal monella.
Habakuk said: "HEY NEO, HOW COME YOU NEVER QUOTE THESE KIND OF SCRIPTURES?...THERE ALL OVER THE BIBLE...."
________________________________
I accidently found another scripture just today referring to the same subject while researching a totally different subject. Imagine that.
Malachi 3: 4-6
4. "Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the Lord, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
5. And I will come near to you TO JUDGMENT; and I will be a SWIFT witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against FALSE SWEARERS (D.O.J. Prosecutors?) and against
those that oppress(or defraud) the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside THE STRANGER FROM HIS RIGHT, (Kurt Johnson?) and fear not me, saith the Lord of hosts.
6. For I am the Lord, I CHANGE NOT; threfore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Pay particular attention to "THOSE THAT DEFRAUD THE HIRELING IN HIS WAGE". (Bankers/lenders?)
They are singled out to be burned at the 2nd coming. The Lord doesn't change. He abhorred the lenders of his day & kicked their ass & still deplores their actions even today & he doesn't change. He will do something about it & when he does, IT WILL BE SWIFT JUDGMENT.
juggins...ho yo makin out with da there large scale collusion timeclock???
thnk it say only 6 more days left....i just chekcd it and it say:
time left= 6d 03h 7min 23sec
not too much tiem.
we gettin close the end? ah, meen near(er) the end??
now be carful, plug yo nose if yo get too close the end.
time left= 6d 03h 7min 23sec
not too much tiem.
geee....i hope belly brawls HYIPs payout bfore then bfore we all despair into a black ho.
He abhorred the lenders of his day & kicked their ass & still
go git 'em tuff guy!
go out there and kike sum ass!
go git 'em tuff guy!
go out there and kike sum ass!
yeah! then day bee reedin the eyetalian sports pages...the def notices....
bet yo didn no that origianl dr. gilac was an eyetalian... ...yah...he had to cahnge his name because in the old days, when yo jump off the boat, and cum to amrica, eyetalians faced a lot of incrimination...not like toddy, when day got loss to protect certain peeples from dis crime in nations....too much cryne toddy.
bet yo didn no that origianl dr. gilac was an eyetalian..\
almose foolgot...his organal name was "gilacchi"
it rimes with dat other famus eyetalian name...villachi....rember him???
he was a big sootagila!
Letter of complaint from Dr. Gilacchi:
Dear Signore Direttore:
Now I am a-tella you a story how I was a-treated at your hotella.
I am a-coma from Roma as tourista to London and stay as younga christian man
at yorra hotella.
When I cumma in my rooma I see there is no shitta in my bed - how can I sleepa
with no shitta in my bed?
So I calla down to the receptione and tella:" I
wanna sheeta". They tella me "Go to toiletta".I say:"No.I wanna sheeta in my bed"
They say:"You better no sheeta in your bed, you sonna-mabitch!".
I go down for breakfesta into da ristorante. I order bacon and eggs and two peece
of toast. I getta only one peece of toast. I tella waitress and pointa atta da toasta
"I wanna two peece!" She tella me:"go to da toiletta." I say:"No.No. I wanna two peece on
my plate!". Then she say to me:"You bloody hella not piss on the plate, you
sonna-mabeech!". Second person who do not even know me sonna-mabeetch!- What
is a sonna-mabeetch?
Later I go for dinner in your ristorante. Spoona and knife is laid out on the
taybla. But no fock. I tella da waitress:"I wanna fock!" anna she tella me:
"Sure, everyone wanna fock!". I tella her:"No.No. You don't understand me.
I wanna fock on the table!". She tella me:"So you sanna-mabeetch wanna fock
on the table? Get your assa out of here!".
I go to receptionista and aska for a bill. I no wanna stay in dissa hotella
no mo. When I have paid the billa, the porter say to me:"Thank you and
peace on you!" I say:"Piss on you too, you sonna-mabeetch!"
I go back to Italy. I never more cumma stay your hotella no mo,
you sonna-mabeetch.
Sincerely
Dr. Ira Gilacchi
Gashler, why not take up your scam theory with the authorities in your church and see if they condone your promotion of it?
Could it be you'd risk your status in the church if they knew what you were promoting?
Or could it be that you really aren't a member any more because of what you promoted and keep lying about?
It's really one way or the other, Byron; you're either lying to your church to keep your membership and risking going to hell for that, or you're lying about your beliefs in the Mormon church to keep promoting the scam.
Does the church condone scams and what you've done? If you say they do, that's a very telling defamation on your part of the Mormon faith.
If you try to say they don't have a stand on members promoting a scam, that's yet another telling defamation on your part of the Mormon faith.
Which is it? Does the church condone your supporting known criminals or not?
What 'general authority' has given you the go ahead to keep luring people into these schemes?
Are you willing to bring scorn to your faith by advocating a scam and saying your faith doesn't condemn it?
Not exactly the profile of a saint, now is it?
now for sum 'slippery' humor....
If you are in for some humor this morning, you may find the following
series of letters amusing. It is a correspondence that actually took
place between a London hotel's staff and one of its guests. The London hotel
involved submitted this to the Sunday Times. No name was mentioned.
I got it a few days ago through a friend who lives in London:
Have fun.
Helmut
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Maid,
Please do not leave any more of those little bars of soap in my
bathroom since I have brought my own bath-sized Dial. Please remove
the six unopened little bars from the shelf under the medicine chest
and another three in the shower soap dish. They are in my way.
Thank you,
S. Berman
- -
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Room 635,
I am not your regular maid. She will be back tomorrow, Thursday,
from her day off. I took the 3 hotel soaps out of the shower
soap dish as you requested. The 6 bars on your shelf I took out
of your way and put on top of your Kleenex dispenser in case you
should change your mind. This leaves only the 3 bars I left
today which my instructions from the management is to leave 3
soaps daily. I hope this is satisfactory. Kathy, Relief Maid
- -
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Maid -- I hope you are my regular maid.
Apparently Kathy did not tell you about my note to her concerning the
little bars of soap. When I got back to my room this evening I found
you had added 3 little Camays to the shelf under my medicine cabinet.
I am going to be here in the hotel for two weeks and have brought my
own bath-size Dial so I won't need those 6 little Camays which are on
the shelf. They are in my way when shaving, brushing teeth, etc.
Please remove them.
S. Berman
- -
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. Berman,
My day off was last Wed. so the relief maid left 3 hotel soaps
which we are instructed by the management. I took the 6 soaps
which were in your way on the shelf and put them in the soap dish
where your Dial was. I put the Dial in the medicine cabinet for
your convenience. I didn't remove the 3 complimentary soaps
which are always placed inside the medicine cabinet for all new
check-ins and which you did not object to when you checked in
last Monday. Please let me know if I can of further assistance.
Your regular maid, Dotty
- -
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. Berman,
The assistant manager, Mr. Kensedder, informed me this A.M. that you
called him last evening and said you were unhappy with your maid
service. I have assigned a new girl to your room. I hope you will
accept my apologies for any past inconvenience. If you have any
future complaints please contact me so I can give it my personal
attention. Call extension 1108 between 8AM and 5PM. Thank you.
Elaine Carmen
Housekeeper
- -
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Miss Carmen,
It is impossible to contact you by phone since I leave the hotel for
business at 745 AM and don't get back before 530 or 6PM. That's the
reason I called Mr. Kensedder last night. You were already off duty.
I only asked Mr. Kensedder if he could do anything about those little
bars of soap. The new maid you assigned me must have thought I was a
new check-in today, since she left another 3 bars of hotel soap in my
medicine cabinet along with her regular delivery of 3 bars on the
bath-room shelf. In just 5 days here I have accumulated 24 little
bars of soap. Why are you doing this to me?
S. Berman
- -
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. Berman,
Your maid, Kathy, has been instructed to stop delivering soap to your
room and remove the extra soaps. If I can be of further assistance,
please call extension 1108 between 8AM and 5PM. Thank you,
Elaine Carmen,
Housekeeper
- -
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. Kensedder,
My bath-size Dial is missing. Every bar of soap was taken from my
room including my own bath-size Dial. I came in late last night and
had to call the bellhop to bring me 4 little Cashmere Bouquets.
S. Berman
- -
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. Berman,
I have informed our housekeeper, Elaine Carmen, of your soap
problem. I cannot understand why there was no soap in your room
since our maids are instructed to leave 3 bars of soap each time
they service a room. The situation will be rectified
immediately. Please accept my apologies for the inconvenience.
Martin L. Kensedder Assistant Manager
- -
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mrs. Carmen,
Who the hell left 54 little bars of Camay in my room? I came in last
night and found 54 little bars of soap. I don't want 54 little
bars of Camay. I want my one damn bar of bath-size Dial. Do you
realize I have 54 bars of soap in here. All I want is my bath
size Dial. Please give me back my bath-size Dial. S. Berman
- -
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. Berman,
You complained of too much soap in your room so I had them
removed. Then you complained to Mr. Kensedder that all your
soap was missing so I personally returned them. The 24 Camays
which had been taken and the 3 Camays you are supposed to receive
daily (sic). I don't know anything about the 4 Cashmere
Bouquets. Obviously your maid, Kathy, did not know I had
returned your soaps so she also brought 24 Camays plus the 3
daily Camays. I don't know where you got the idea this hotel
issues bath-size Dial. I was able to locate some bath-size Ivory
which I left in your room. Elaine Carmen Housekeeper
- -
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mrs. Carmen,
Just a short note to bring you up-to-date on my latest soap
inventory. As of today I possess:
- - - -- On shelf under medicine cabinet - 18 Camay in 4 stacks of 4
and 1 stack of 2.
- - - -- On Kleenex dispenser - 11 Camay in 2 stacks of 4 and 1 stack of 3.
- - - -- On bedroom dresser - 1 stack of 3 Cashmere Bouquet, 1 stack of 4
hotel-size Ivory, and 8 Camay in 2 stacks of 4.
- - - -- Inside medicine cabinet - 14 Camay in 3 stacks of 4 and 1 stack
of 2.
- - - -- In shower soap dish - 6 Camay, very moist.
- - - -- On northeast corner of tub - 1 Cashmere Bouquet, slightly used.
- - - -- On northwest corner of tub - 6 Camays in 2 stacks of 3.
Please ask Kathy when she services my room to make sure the
stacks are neatly piled and dusted. Also, please advise her that
stacks of more than 4 have a tendency to tip. May I suggest that
my bedroom window sill is not in use and will make an excellent
spot for future soap deliveries. One more item, I have purchased
another bar of bath-sized Dial which I am keeping in the hotel
vault in order to avoid further misunderstandings. S. Berman
-----------------------
dr. gilac says: now if it wre me, i would have been more clear about it:
WOULD YOU JUST PLEASE REMOVE ALL THE F@@KING TRAVEL SIZE SOAP FROM MY ROOM!
altho, maybe if i were in london, i wuld havs said if differntly:
WOULD YOU JUST PLEASE REMOVE ALL THE BLOODY F@@KING TRAVEL SIZE SOAP FROM MY ROOM!
THANK YOU!
nuttin like sayng thins clearly.
...and only in hangland would such an issue over f@@king soap!
LOL!!!
btw...what is an eng?
these live in england
mogel.....
6. For I am the Lord, I CHANGE NOT; threfore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
YEAH, I LOVE THAT SCRIPTURE.....PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO "I CHANGE NOT".....THE FRAUD HASNT CHANGED AND NEITHER HAS THE ONE THAT JUDGES IT. THIS STUFF IS SERIOUS BUSINESS TO G-D, ITS SO CLEAR IN HIS WORD.
Isn't Utah the scam capitol of the country?
and the bleating of the Moogie was heard
Taking advantage of people's situation was not what it was all about.
BS, I think more than adequately sums up that last statement succinctly enough. It was always about taking advantage of the desperate, they were the ones who wouldn’t look too closely or be thinking too clearly and in too much of a hurry to really find out they were being swindled. There is no indication that there was ever any policy other than getting as much money out of the sucker er “client” as they could manage.
Moogie proves denser than usual
So a criminal trial alleging bank fraud or conspiracy to commit bank fraud never happened & count # 1 is a figmant of my imagination too since bank fraud was never an issue at the criminal trial?
You really are dense aren’t you?? The only charge dim and dimmer were tried on was MAIL FRAUD, so that is the only one that went to trial. There was NO trial on any other charge. So, that means that if they feel like re-filing the other charges, they have any time in the next 10 years to do so.
Moogie waxes dumb
Yes, I know, the D.O.J. refers to me as a victim too & has given me a victim number & a PIN # to access their website so I can learn of all the developments as they happen.
You were dumb enough to give them money, so you are included among those considered to be victims.
Moogie plays dumb
They have the note?
Unless they are totally inept, they have the note and all the other documentation, or else they have proof that they own the note, same difference. Just keep concocting you little fantasies, it won’t do you any good, but it will give you some to distract yourself from what you are really worrying about.
Moogie is dumb
Mail fraud is a complex issue?
You really don’t have a clue do you? This train wreck is going to be fun to watch.
Moogie is clueless
I was referering to court rules of time restraints,
In case you missed it Moogey boy, the trial and what not is all over and done with, and you have completely missed the boat. The only thing a clock was running on is over and done with.
Moogie misses the point
On you mean the DUNNING "form letter" just sent out wrecklessly by some secretary out of the office of the D.O.J NOT INTENDING TO BE ANY LEGAL DOCUMENT?
You really don’t have a clue!!!
Moogie tries again
Which criminal trial did you watch? Certainly not the Dorean Group's trial. That's NOT how the prosecution argued things.
The only thing the prosecution argued was the MAIL FRAUD case involving dim and dimmer, nothing else Moogs.
Moogie tries another approach
Yea I know, Kurt & Scott asked for the same things of proof of loss & wanted statements under oath too.
The difference being that all dim and dimmer could do was pick their pockets, lying on the Federal form could get you real prison time for perjury. A significant difference in my opinion.
Moogie gets funny
Millions of dollars were confiscated. That doesn't equate to only 500 clients or victims the DOJ pretends to exist.
Oh, do tell Moogs, according to everything I’ve read the $500k was all that was seized, if you have a source, please feel free to post it. Like I, or anyone else of sound mind is going to believe anything dim and dimmer claimed. If the gov’t had seized/recovered more money there is no reason for them not to make a point of announcing it or listing it.
Judge Bean said: "Gashler, why not take up your scam theory with the authorities in your church and see if they condone your promotion of it?
_____________________________
Why don't you discuss your colon cancer with your dentist to see if he can help you?
Judge said: "It's really one way or the other, Byron; you're either lying to your church to keep your membership and risking going to hell for that, or you're lying about your beliefs in the Mormon church to keep promoting the scam."
_________________________________
What are you talking about, I'm in hell right now discussing this subject with you right now.
Judge Bean said: "What 'general authority' has given you the go ahead to keep luring people into these schemes?"
_______________________________
Here's a better question: Which general authority has said that I CAN'T support the Dorean Group? You find that in writing for me, or don't bother to play your childish games with me or your loaded lawyer like questions which don't amount to a hill of beans. Your games aren't becoming of a person in general at all, let alone a saint which I never said I was a saint. I'm a sinner just like everyone else that wants to throw stones. I'll let God Judge me thank-you very much.
Judge: Just so you know there have been general authorities & even learned professors of the Mormon faith who taught at BYU that have written books on the evils of the Federal Reserve System & the evils of how the lending system works. This is not a new concept.
However, you are going to find if you are really as smart as you pretend you are, that the Mormon Church is silent on many subjects as far as an official church stand is concerned. The Mormon Church is not the court that judged the Dorean Group, so please stop playing the religion card. It only makes you look like the fool that you are.
Judge Bean said: "Not exactly the profile of a saint, now is it?"
__________________________________
If I wanted to learn about sainthood, I would most certainly learn from a Saint.
If I wanted to learn about being a judgemental ass, I would go to you for advice, however, I don't seek knowledge in that particular area of expertise.
Nemo said: "Isn't Utah the scam capitol of the country?"
______________________________
Which Dun & Bradstreet report did that come from?
No, Nemo, I think it's Washington DC.
Notarial Dissent said: "You really are dense aren’t you?? The only charge dim and dimmer were tried on was MAIL FRAUD, so that is the only one that went to trial. There was NO trial on any other charge. So, that means that if they feel like re-filing the other charges, they have any time in the next 10 years to do so."
________________________________
Your conclusions or your statements if believed true by an appellate Judge are only going to ASSURE a reversal of the guilty convictions. What you say isn't necessarily bad. I can live with what you say here.
Notarial Dissent said: "You were dumb enough to give them money, so you are included among those considered to be victims."
________________________________
Again, like Judge Alsup, you will help win the appeal all by yourself. I think that statement should be put in the court record too.
Byron, there are also people in the church who understand how you work your scams:
"Warner Woodworth, a Brigham Young University professor in the Department of Organizational Leadership and Strategy, said there are many reasons for so-called affinity fraud, including a culture of friendship and trust.
In the LDS culture, despite admonitions from church leaders, he said a high value is placed on having big bank accounts, owning cars and houses, and being successful. This includes a belief that God blesses the faithful.
"Middle-class Utahns who are active members of the LDS Church tend to hold this Protestant value that they are special, that God loves them more than others and that if they work hard they will have great material success," said Woodworth."
" In March, about the time Southwick was pleading guilty to nine second-degree felony counts of securities fraud, the LDS Church issued a statement read in Utah wards that was prompted by "reports of fraud schemes and unwise investments." It called for members to invest with established financial institutions.
"We are also concerned that there are those who use relationships of trust to promote risky or even fraudulent investment and business schemes."
From:
http://www.sltrib.com/faith/ci_9587492
Moogie clueless as ever
Your conclusions or your statements if believed true by an appellate Judge are only going to ASSURE a reversal of the guilty convictions.
You really don’t have a clue do you??? If, and I say if, this goes to appeal, the only thing that is appealable is whether they got a fair trial-they did, whether there was sufficient evidence of the crime-there was, were there any errors-there weren’t, was the sentence appropriate and within guidelines, and if the jury verdict was reasonable-it was. If, and this is an incredibly huge if, the appeals court were to overturn the verdict, the only thing they can do is send it back for a new trial-where they will get convicted all over again, or direct the court to reconsider the sentence, which would not be a good thing for the dim duo. There is nothing appealable in this case that will not, on the improbably chance it would stand, not get them right back where they are now. Not to mention there are still all those other charges waiting in the wings to be filed.
So dream on Moogs, that is all it will ever be. Besides if dim and dimmer file an appeal like they have filed everything else, it won’t get past the clerk’s desk before it is bounced.
Incidently Moogs, stupidity and gullibility on your part does not constitute an affirmative defense for criminal actions.
SOP said: "is that when i try to mail a letter and i put already used stamps and then mail it? try to fool the PO?"
______________________________
No, mail fraud is when you intercept mail that isn't any of your business and snoop into it, and control & manipulate it's contents & distribution.
SOP said: "is that when i try to mail a letter and i put already used stamps and then mail it? try to fool the PO?"
______________________________
No, mail fraud is when you intercept mail that isn't any of your business and snoop into it, and control & manipulate it's contents & distribution.
good! then its ok to kepp on mailing letters with already used stumps on them!
Judge said: Warner Woodworth, a Brigham Young University professor in the Department of Organizational Leadership and Strategy, said there are many reasons for so-called affinity fraud, including a culture of friendship and trust.
In the LDS culture, despite admonitions from church leaders, he said a high value is placed on having big bank accounts, owning cars and houses, and being successful. This includes a belief that God blesses the faithful.
"Middle-class Utahns who are active members of the LDS Church tend to hold this Protestant value that they are special, that God loves them more than others and that if they work hard they will have great material success," said Woodworth."
________________________________
If "affinity fraud" includes friendship & trust, two good values to have, than, I don't see your point or how your comments relate to the Dorean Process or Dorean Group.
Not only does segments of the LDS culture suffer from materialism, but other religions & cultures as well.
The test of dealing with prosperity & poorness are both tests that are important to experience in order to really know & see what really defines you. Neither scenario should make or break or define the person or his self worth or his relationship to his Maker. The Book of Mormon is about the story of 2 civilizations. One people couldn't handle being blessed by God. They let materialism & pride literally destroy them. It is a book for our day, because the same challenges are happening now.
If Utahans tend to feel that they are special, again, this is nothing unique. People in prison & those of all faiths also feel that they are special too. We are all children of God, and therefore special. Again, no point of substance has been made by you.
A belief that God loves them MORE than others? God is NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS PERIOD. He is fair & loving and merciful to all & his door is open to all. There tends to be something egotistical & even perverted in that type of better than thou thinking or that the Lord only blesses the faithful. "The Lord allows the sun to rise upon the just as well as the unjust."
The fact of the matter is that this ISN'T what is taught or fostered in the doctrines & society of the Church & any LDS person who studies the faith would never have the attitudes & priorities you describe, but you are defining a personal problem, not necessarily a Church problem.
2 Nephi 9: 42
"And whoso knocketh, to him will be open; and the wise, and the learned, and they that are rich, who are puffed up because of their learning, and their wisdom, and their riches, yea, they are they whom HE DESPISETH; and save they shall cast these things away, and consider themselves FOOLS BEFORE GOD, and come down in the depth of humility, he will not open unto them."
1 Nephi 16: 35
"Behold the Lord esteemeth ALL FLESH IN ONE, he that is righteous is favored of God."
2 Ne 30: 1-2
"And now behold, my beloved brethren, I would speak unto you; for I Nephi, would not suffer that ye SHOULD SUPPOSE that ye are more righteous than the Gentiles shall be. For behold, except ye shall keep the commandments of God, ye shall ALL LIKEWISE PERISH; and because of the words which have been spoken, ye need not suppose that the Gentiles are utterly destroyed.
2. For behold, I say unto you that AS MANY OF THE GENTILES AS WILL REPENT are the covenant people of the Lord, and as many of the Jews as will not repent shall be cast off; for the Lord covenanteth with none save it be with them that repent & not believe in his Son, who is the Holy One of Israel."
Notarial Dissent said: "If, and this is an incredibly huge if, the appeals court were to overturn the verdict, the only thing they can do is send it back for a new trial"
________________________________
No, you are the clueless one.
Ever the ignorant fool, Gashler posits:
No, mail fraud is when you intercept mail that isn't any of your business and snoop into it, and control & manipulate it's contents & distribution.
Implication of course that the BOP is breaking the law while going through prisoner's mail. Sorry, Byron. Prisoner mail carries no confidentiality with certain exceptions for counsel. Since the dim duo have no counsel of record there isn't anyone they can communicate with that carries the privacy of the attorney-client privilege.
Postal Operations Manual (POM), section 615.1 provides that mail is to be delivered to the institutions authorities who, in turn, deliver the mail to the addressee under the institution’s rules and regulations.
Federal Bureau of Prisons Regulations (28 C.F.R. 540.14) requires prison staff to open and inspect all incoming general correspondence and allowing staff to read outgoing correspondence of inmates in federal medium and high level security institutions.
And reusing canceled stamps is covered in Title 18, I. 83, § 1720. Canceled stamps and envelopes.
Notarial Dissent said: "the only thing that is appealable is whether they got a fair trial-they did, whether there was sufficient evidence of the crime-there was, were there any errors-there weren’t, was the sentence appropriate and within guidelines, and if the jury verdict was reasonable-it was."
______________________________
There are many other issues you didn't even think to list in your limited cluless mind.
The appeal lists "jurisdiction reasons" among many others unlisted by you, as a basis to void the complete verdicts & original trial, let alone a new criminal trial you assume is necessary for justice OR COURT PROCEDURE.
A new criminal trial THROWN BACK TO A LOWER COURT is NOT MANDATORY, NOR WOULD THE PROSECUTION NECESSARILY EVEN AGREE TO THAT IN ALL CRIMINAL TRIALS. THE PROSECUTION IS NOT OBLIGATED TO DO WHAT YOU SUGGEST & YOU SAYING WITHOUT A DOUBT, WHAT THE END CASE SCENARIOS ARE IS JUST PLAIN ARROGANCE ON YOUR PART. THAT TYPE OF THINKING TOTALLY IS A SLAP IN THE FACE OF THE APPEALS PROCESS & THE POWER & MEANING OF THE HIGHER COURTS RULING & AUTHORITY & ISN'T EVEN GOOD LAW. WHY DO YOU CONTINUALLY LIE & DECEIVE?
jUDGE SAID: "Since the dim duo have no counsel of record there isn't anyone they can communicate with that carries the privacy of the attorney-client privilege."
________________________________
That was one of the issues still unresolved WITHOUT FACTS TO THE CONTRARY. The actions of the BOP suggest they were the counsel for the Dorean Group. The BOP acting in a DUAL ROLE is a real legal problem for the BOP, much like an attorney reprenting two separate clients with opposing interests all at the same time, all involving the same issue. It's a huge "conflict of interests".
juggins...this is fo yo and all crocked jugis like yo...day gonna make yo "sit up strait"....
June 30, 2008
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A lawsuit filed by a Wisconsin couple against their mortgage lender could have major implications for banks should a U.S. appeals court agree that borrowers can cancel their loans en masse when their lenders violate a federal lending disclosure law.
Photo
A foreclosed home is seen in Stockton, California in this May 13, 2008 file photo.
The case began like hundreds of others filed since the U.S. housing boom spawned a rise in sales of adjustable rate loans. Susan and Bryan Andrews of Cedarburg, Wisconsin, claimed that lender Chevy Chase Bank FSB (CCX_pc.N: Quote, Profile, Research) had hidden the true terms of what they believed was a good deal on a low-interest loan.
In their 2005 lawsuit, the couple said the loan's interest rate had more than doubled by their second monthly payment from the 1.95 percent rate they thought was locked in for five years. The interest rate rose well above the 5.75 percent fixed-rate loan they had refinanced to pay their children's college tuition.
The Andrews filed the case seeking class action status; and in early 2007, U.S. District Judge Lynn Adelman ruled that the bank had violated the Truth in Lending Act, or TILA, and that thousands of other Chevy Chase borrowers could join them as plaintiffs.
The judge transformed the case from a run-of-the-mill class action to a potential nightmare for the U.S. banking industry by also finding that the borrowers could force the bank to cancel, or rescind, their loans. That decision was stayed pending an appeal to the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which is expected to rule any day.
The idea of canceling tainted loans to stem a tide of foreclosures has caught hold in other quarters; a lawsuit filed last week by the Illinois attorney general asks a court to rescind or reform Countrywide Financial Corp (CFC.N: Quote, Profile, Research) mortgages originated under "unfair or deceptive practices."
'MASSIVE CLASS SUITS'
The mortgage banking industry already faces pressure from state and federal regulators, who have accused banks of lowering underwriting standards and forcing some borrowers, through fraud, into costly adjustable loans that the banks later bundled and sold as high-interest investment vehicles.
The loans have caused serious instability in the financial sector, as mortgage interest rates adjusted upward and borrowers began defaulting at a significant rate starting in 2007, drawing lawsuits from investors and homeowners.
Federal appeals courts disagree over whether class-wide rescission under the Truth in Lending Act is available, said attorney Christine Scheuneman, whose firm represented Chevy Chase at the district court.
"If class treatment is found to be available for rescission ..., given the current crisis not predicted in 2005, the result all over the country could be massive class suits," said Scheuneman, a partner at Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP.
The Truth in Lending Act, a 1968 federal law designed to protect consumers against lending fraud by requiring clear disclosure of loan terms and costs, lets consumers seek rescission, or termination, of a loan and the return of all interest and fees when a lender is found in violation.
Should the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals agree with Judge Adelman, banking industry associations predict "confusion and market disruption" as banks curtail lending further.
"Class certification of rescission claims would saddle the mortgage lending industry and secondary market with billions of dollars of class action exposure for supposed violations of TILA that do not give rise to any actual damages," the financial services associations wrote in an amicus brief.
But the Andrews' attorney, Kevin Demet, said lenders want to scare the judiciary into banning class action rescissions because they were unable to convince Congress to do so in the 1990s.
"If (banks) get relief (from the appeals court), it's activist judges trying to give them what they could not get legislatively," said Demet, of Demet & Demet of Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
Consumer advocates said the banks would have "no more or no less" liability for the tainted mortgages if the court found in favor of the Andrews plaintiffs.
But an adverse ruling for borrowers would cut off an important remedy. Borrowers would "lose the opportunity to use rescission to save their homes from foreclosure or to rescind their mortgages and refinance into affordable ones," the Center for Responsible Lending, the National Consumer Law Center, Public Citizen and AARP Foundation Litigation wrote in an amicus brief filed in the case.
Both sides said the case will likely be decided by the U.S. Supreme Court.
(Reporting by Gina Keating; Editing by Mary Milliken and Gerald E. McCormick)
uk.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUKN2634924420080630
corse, i no fo yo its hard...coss yo always got sumtin pokin yo in the end...
Byron, the point you raised was:
"Here's a better question: Which general authority has said that I CAN'T support the Dorean Group? You find that in writing for me, or don't bother to play your childish games with me or your loaded lawyer like questions which don't amount to a hill of beans."
So I provided it for you - or was that message from the Church that was read in the wards confusing? Or maybe you just missed it. (I got it from the Salt Lake Deseret News newspaper web site.) What part of this message from the first presidency (I presume those are general authorities you asked for) didn't you understand?:
"We are also concerned that there are those who use relationships of trust to promote risky or even fraudulent investment and business schemes."
Since the Dorean process has been ruled a scam and some people are in prison for promoting it, are you going to try and make us believe you're in good standing with your church by promoting a known fraudulent business scheme?
Or are you just lying to them, too?
Federal Bureau of Prisons Regulations?
They were in a State of CA run jail, were they not, not a Federal Prison when these infractions took place, so why are you reading Federal rules to me?
And they weren't a convicted inmate at the time, but a civilian with real rights. You can't assume a person is an inmate because they are all innocent until proven guilty, it's the American ideal, and the infractions took place before they were determined to be guilty, so yes, human rights violations did occur any way you look at it.
Fred, Frankly, I hope the Andrews win, but predicting how the Supreme Court will finally rule on it is impossible to say.
Judge says: In March, about the time Southwick was pleading guilty to nine second-degree felony counts of securities fraud, the LDS Church issued a statement read in Utah wards that was prompted by "reports of fraud schemes and unwise investments."
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Sorry, I don't see the Dorean Group name specified in that statement. Nice try, but no cookie for you. You obviously didn't listen to my challenge.
If you are suggesting that the Dorean Group were convicted of securities fraud in the latest criminal trial, again, no such charge even existed.
Don't even see any statement either about any sanctions you feel the Church should impose either.
The article seems to be about financial advise only, not about what punishments are appropriate & why.
Lastly, the final authority on this subject hasn't spoken to you. There are those that feel the Lord himself led them to the Dorean Group. Who are you to say otherwise?
Gashler, you're getting more and more delusional. They were, and are, Federal inmates because their case was a Federal crime. And Dublin is a Federal Detention Center.
Once you're in, you're under the BOP rules whether you're convicted or not.
Judge said: "We are also CONCERNED that there are those who use relationships of trust to promote risky or even fraudulent investment and business schemes."
Since the Dorean process has been ruled a scam and some people are in prison for promoting it, are you going to try and make us believe you're in good standing with your church
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Since I never discussed my standing in my Church, are you going to try & make everyone believe that I made this an issue?
Nice try at your manipulation, lies & perversion, but I don't make religion an issue, when it's not an issue. I don't use my religion for personal gain or for notariety. That's kind of tacky don't you think? Why do you continually assume things that aren't true & then present them as facts? That's what liars do, even the father of all lies, Satan himself.
The First Presidency is ALWAYS CONCERNED & concerned on many issues. What is your point?
BOP rules:
NEVER BOP YO DAWG ON THE LEFT SIDE OF HIS NOSE. THIS SENDS THE RAWNG MASSAGE.
ALWAYS BOP DOG BEFO HE URNATES ON YO RUG. NEVER AFTA, THEN HE WILL THING THAT ITS DA RITE TING TODDO.
ALWAYS BOP JUGGINS IN HIS *SS. HE LIKE IT THERE.
The judge transformed the case from a run-of-the-mill class action to a potential nightmare for the U.S. banking industry by also finding that the borrowers could force the bank to cancel, OR rescind, their loans.
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Wonder if there is a difference between CANCELLING & RESCINDING in the intent here of how the Judge will finally rule?
Seems to me the language of cancelling should mean elimination of the debt entirely since the term "fraud" & "securities fraud" is used in the article too in explaining the real problem.
Judge Bean: maybe that's what the Mormon authorities WERE CONCERNED ABOUT in your latest article! Maybe they are suggesting that refinancing with a predatory lender is a bad business practice scheme or investment to get involved with. LOL
Gashler, you're getting more and more delusional. They were, and are, Federal inmates because their case was a Federal crime. And Dublin is a Federal Detention Center.
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Are you being delusional by saying that this mail abuse didn't happen when they were incarcerated in West Valley, Utah too, obviously a State run Prison?
Byron, it's not much different in local jails, including the one they were held in in Utah:
(13) MAIL AND PUBLICATIONS
(A) Prisoners may send as many letters as they wish as long as they use pre-stamped envelopes from the commissary. Letters weighing more than seven ounces or mailed to another country require additional postage. Prisoners must have sufficient funds on their books to cover the extra cost.
(B) All incoming and outgoing mail may be opened and inspected for contraband and may be read for security reasons. Mail is distributed Monday through Friday, except holidays.
The Jail's mailing address is:
(Prisoner's Name and SO#)
c/o Salt Lake County Metro Jail
3415 S 900 W
Salt Lake City, UT 84119
(C) Letters from public officials, attorneys, or courts are considered privileged if the mail is marked "Privileged" or “Legal Mail” and the envelope displays an appropriate letterhead with the name the attorney or sender. Appropriately marked, privileged mail will only be opened and inspected for contraband in the presence of the prisoner to whom it is addressed.
Judge: Dr. Ira Gilac is not Fred Frankly or even Fred.
Maybe it's your delusion kicking in?
Judge: When the movie the DaVinci Code came out, due to the controversial themes presented in that movie, like "Jesus was married" & "Jesus had children from this union,", the Mormon Church for whatever reasons unknown to me, other than maybe not willing to promote contensions or controversy by a different stand, felt compelled I guess, to issue a statement on the subject. In essence the statement read:
"There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER to say that Jesus was married." Or words similiar to that effect as I remember. Now disseminating a possible false statement throughout the church, is that mail fraud if ANY if the statement is considered to be false by facts or by true reality? Jesus himself can take away my salvation if he wasn't in fact married here upon this earth.
As a matter of fact, Mormons can't be gods if they aren't married in the Mormon temple under the authority of the priesthood, but can only become angels to god is the doctrine taught. The subject of marriage is much more important than cars owned, or houses owned or success at work that you imply Mormons are so consumed with.
Now is that a fraudulent statement or even a fair statement of fact to emphatically say, that there is no evidence whatsoever on Jesus's status, & then to publicly disseminate that as being the position of the Church?
Judge, if you insist that the Mormon Church should judge me a non-Saint or whatever your insinuations were based upon a mail fraud conviction issued by ONLY 1 CRIMINAL CASE, which there is even an appeal on, I think any High Council putting me in judgment, will have a tougher time proving that statement about Jesus's martial status as factual, meaning THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF HIM BEING MARRIED, than proving that I or the Dorean Group ever were involved in any REAL scam.
If marriage is as important to the Mormon Church as their doctrine implies in the Doctrine & Covenants & even the doctrine of the Bible, than I suggest it is a bigger & more important issue to solve than whether the Dorean Group is a scam or not.
Let's look at the evidence or any POSSIBLE EVIDENCE that Jesus was IN FACT married & let's reason together:
John 2: 1-4
1. "And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Gaililee; and the mother of Jesus was there.
WHY IS THIS RELEVANT TO DISCUSS IF IT WASN'T THE MARRIAGE OF JESUS HIMSELF & WHY IS THE MOTHER OF JESUS THERE & WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO MENTION THAT FACT? MOTHERS DO GO TO THEIR SONS MARRIAGE & PROBABLY WOULDN'T MISS THAT EVENT.
2. "And both Jesus was called, and his disciples to the marriage."
AGAIN THE EVIDENCE IS MOUNTING UP THAT THIS IS JESUS'S MARRIAGE SIMPLY BECAUSE HIS CLOSEST FRIENDS WERE THERE TOO.
3. "And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine."
WHY WOULD THE MOTHER OF JESUS TAKE IT UPON HERSELF TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT DRINK REFRESHMENTS, IF THIS WASN'T IN FACT THE MARRIAGE OF HER SON JESUS? AND WHY WOULD MARY MAKE THIS ISSUE HER SON'S PROBLEM TO SOLVE? WHEN'S THE LAST TIME YOU WERE INVITED TO A WEDDING THAT WASN'T YOUR OWN, & THE ISSUE OF DRINK BECAME YOUR PROBLEM TO SOLVE? ALSO IN THE JEWISH CULTURE AT THE TIME, IT WAS THE MOTHER OF THE GROOM'S RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE CARE OF THE REFRESHMENTS FOR THE MARRIAGE PARTY. AS A MATTER OF FACT, A BOOK WAS WRITTEN BY A WELL KNOWN MORMON AUTHOR, ENTITLED: "JESUS WAS MARRIED" & PROVIDED AMPLE EVIDENCE OF THAT HYPOTHESIS. EVEN CULTURE OF JESUS'S DAY, SUGGESTS THAT THIS IS THE MARRIAGE OF JESUS BECAUSE IT WAS THE GROOM'S MOTHER'S RESPONSIBILITY FOR DRINK & REFRESHMENTS FOR THE GUESTS.
4. "Jesus saith unto her (Mary), Woman, what have I to do with thee?
IN OTHER WORDS, JESUS IS SAYING, MOTHER THIS IS YOUR JOB, BUT BEING THE GOOD SON HE WAS, HE SOLVED THE PROBLEM AND TURNED WATER INTO WINE. IT IS ALSO SIGNIFICANT TO NOTE THAT THIS WAS JESUS'S FIRST PUBLIC MIRACLE DONE. MUST HAVE HAD MORE SIGNIFICANCE THAN JUST THE FIRST MIRACLE DONE IN PUBLIC.
Also the custom of Jesus's day, demanded that spiritual teachers of the day like Rabiis be married.
Otherwise, they would have never been taken seriously.
"Jesus often kissed Mary upon the lips" according to the gospel of Phillip. For Jesus to do that if he wasn't married, would have been considered very bad conduct in public & would have lessened his appeal to the masses as a leader & spiritual advisor.
Now let's look at what was said by either Brigham Young or Joseph Smith as I remember the source is.
"God himself came down from heaven & married Adam & Eve in the Garden himself & blessed their union."
Is what God does, eternal? Is his power eternal & this blessed union, a man shouldn't divide the Lord's union through divorce or separation without violating his law or commandment. If so, God is a liar or the scriptures saying otherwise are false in the very least, or the prophet who said that God married Adam & Eve is a liar. Take your pick of choice.
Does Jesus NOT have to do anything & still be the perfect Man he was, or could Jesus not have been married, & still been considered a perfect man?
Jesus "in order to fulfill all righteousness" was even baptized, not that he needed it, so it logically follows that he was even married "to fulfill all righteousness" to set the proper example for all of us to follow since marriage is "ordained of God".
Since marriage is ordained of God & good, can a leader create a commandment & not follow it himself & still be a good & perfect leader & fulfill all righteousness? Who is the example of ALL GOODNESS? Did Jesus do ALL THINGS OPENLY TO SHOW HIS PERFECT CHARACTER THAT HE WAS NEVER HIDING ANYTHING, but all truth was in him. Maybe the marriage in Cana, now takes on more significance then by being even mentioned as part of God's policy of plainess & openness.
Was Jesus a hypocrite in any way, form, or fashion? Does an employer command his employee to do something he wouldn't do himself & still keep the respect of his employee?
Jesus made the commandment which he also followed himself by taking a wife & the scriptures are numerous here to conclude if Jesus wasn't married, HE WAS A HYPOCRITE.
To me that is self evident:
Mark 10: 7-9
Math 18: 19
Genesis 2: 18
Math 19: 3-8
Math 22: 28
Ecclesiastes 3: 14
1 Cor 11:11
Math 19: 3-8
Math: 18:18
Math: 16:19
Math 22: 25-29
1 Peter 3: 7
Math 19: 8
Gen. 2: 23
Math 22:30
Heb. 9: 17
I Cor 9: 5
Eph 3: 15
and finally
Doctrine & Covenants 132: 14-17
for those that think couples are not reunited in heaven as a MARRIED couple.
Even Paul, the apostle was married:
Acts 26: 5 or 1 Corinthians 9: 5-6
You know the guy that said: "It is not good for a man to touch a woman."
So we get back to the original statement allegedly the position of the Mormon Church of "no evidence that Jesus was married"
Excuse me???????????? I have a brain & i intend to use it.
Judge: You may already know all of this. I suspect you might. It wouldn't even surprise me if you were LDS yourself once & maybe you're an apostate who has been excommunicated? Or is this just supposition on my part?
At any rate, you probably should be LDS since you probably know as much as the average baptized Mormon or at least show the same interest.
One last thing, the Mormon faith teaches that God the Father is not only married, but has a wife, called, "Heavenly Mother". Also other Mormon prophets have suggested if not outright said in plainess that God himself has more than one wife, even suggesting that He has a Caucasion wife, an oriental wife, & a black wife. That would at least explain the existence of the different races of the earth since the physical creation was made in the likeness of the spiritual creation.
The Doctrine & Covenants speaks of many wives in heaven too for some in the next life. That becomes a fact if the LDS religion is the "only true church on the face of the earth that the Lord is totally pleased with," according to the decree of the Doctrine & Covenants who states that plainly.
The polygamy issue can't go away even if the Church stops practicing it currently on earth, because it's evident that if Mormon doctrine is true, that some will have plurality of wives in the hereafter.
As a matter of fact, the famous Primary song, entitled, "I am a child of God" teaches & affirmed by our own Spirit that there is a Heavenly Mother, "otherwise, it makes reason stare".
Certainly Judge you must believe all of those things too since you obviously have close friends of yours who are also Mormons & since you were the one that brought the issue of faith up first yourself & the importance of getting to the truth & proclaiming the truth in all places & at all times, in order to be literally be called a Saint. I can only conclude that you would want a righteous Church & a righteous Judge who teaches the truth & does not lie, TO ALSO JUDGE ME, being the fair & righteous person that you assume you are, so reason tells me that you trust any judgment of the Mormon church too as always being fair & just & true.
Or am I mistaken? Which is it?
If I am ever Judged wrongfully, don't you think God will make things right? And if that's true, should I really care who judges me or be concerned about losing any Church status, especially if I sincerely believe I am right with my own conscience? As Huck Finn said, "you can't pray a lie".
If the Mormon church is a hoax, than certainly you wouldn't want a hoax to judge me, would you? If you do, what does that say about you & your own integrity & you as a Saint? If you're not a Saint, why do you bring the subject up? If you aren't a Saint, why should I even care about what you think? Do you think I care? I tell you I don't. You're a pion, and the crabgrass on the lawn of life. Yet you have pressed this issue of judgment as a matter of conscience & a quest of yours. Give it up.
I don't think you believe any of the Mormon things & doctrines I posted so your own suggestion of Mormon judgment, makes you the hypocrite, not me.
mongrel007 said...
Judge: You may already know all of this. I suspect you might. It wouldn't even surprise me if you were LDS yourself once & maybe you're an apostate who has been excommunicated? Or is this just supposition on my part?
geez...yo relly thik that juggins is a mammon???
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