Thursday, November 30, 2006

Angel of Mercy?

If this is J I can’t believe what you said, or that you really believe that crap. Yes God used me to launch your ministry. The men you visited that I lived with all that time had a very different report about me and still do. Don’t you think they are better judges on quantity of time at least. Maybe you have already judged them below yourself so their opinions don’t count. If you really saw me as that delusional why did you invite me into your home to teach Bible study? You never objected to my views then. You know I love you and invested in your ministry and believe in you. Put away this foolish judgmental hypocrisy. I don’t need anymore of the friends of Job to show up on this forum. You are right I haven’t changed because the facts haven’t changed. Maybe you haven’t changed and I was just naive. I’ll be out soon and I would love to see you and S again but I hope you will have the courage to apologize and take a little Bible instruction on how to live by faith and not by sight. Your sight here is way out of focus. Don’t worry friend I have already bet my life to prove it to you. If you are still in touch send my regards to Big Jim, Fred, and Mark A. Let them know I’ll return to visit upon my release. Have them send forms to my father now and I will get right on it.

56 comments:

justice77777777 said...

uh oh! did kurty receive a letter or some form of communication from a "teacher" or "mentor" that doesn't agree with what he/she taught and you are preaching?

just when we thought it couldnt get any more interesting, we find out that student is trying to teach the teacher, or that the tail can wag the dog.

GR82BMOI said...

Kafoolee said: "What a cheese ball for a brain you have if you can not understand what the fuck is going on with all this. No wonder you jump right in with both feet when someone tell you to without ever checking it out or waiting to see what is going to happen."

Was this comment directed at me? I don’t have to check it out or wait to see what will happen. Call me clairvoyant, but I can tell you now with ABSOLUTE certainty that the Dim Duo are going to prison for a long, long time. More Dorean clients will lose their homes. And, the crooked brokers will find some other scam to push. Wanna bet?

BTW – banks do not lend their “own credit”. Try to do a little research before you spout your ridiculous “legal” interpretations.

habakkuk said...

"just when we thought it couldnt get any more interesting, we find out that student is trying to teach the teacher, or that the tail can wag the dog. "

NO. We're finding out that the "teacher" has no business being a teacher....Thats aint uncommon.

the true said...

Why can't you guy leave everyone alone. Maybe you don't believe but the rest of us do. You have the right to think what you want but so do we. I would never disrespect you guys for what you believe. Didn't your mother teach you if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.
I believe in the guy and what they are doing. Its there lives on the line not Yours or mine, if they are willing to do this than why does it bother you so much. It was their choice. No one make them do this, it was something they believe in. If you are the Banks or FBI. (Which I’m sure you are) Then I guess you are being paid to upset, everyone. That being the case, I wont let you have much power over me, by letting you upset me. I believe in this process and that is my right. If God wants this to happen than it will and there is nothing you can do to stop it, But if he doesn’t it wont.
To the people that believe, If you are person for faith than you will keep the faith no matter what these guys say, so don’t give them to power to upset you. As I was taught you believe and don’t worry or worry and don’t believe. You can’t do both.

Blessing to all that don’t worry, because you do believe

Cheryl

justice77777777 said...

the true said...
Blessing to all that don’t worry, because you do believe
Cheryl

you have every right to believe in whatever you'd like. however belief and reality are two totally different traits for one to live within. most of you are caught up in this "quasi" law that johnson talks about and files into the court record to the laughter of everyone or the bs his father is feeding you, which will have johnson and heineman free "very soon"(how many times now), and this is your belief.

now, the reality is that you all are going to act in shock and disappointment when this is over, and the writing was on the wall, or actually on the court record the entire time, but most chose to ingore it.

so heed this post when all is said and done and the crying and complaining starts!

justice77777777 said...

habakkuk said...
NO. We're finding out that the "teacher" has no business being a teacher....Thats aint uncommon.

is that so? well then tell us who is the teacher and what qualification(s) does he or she lack that would prohibit them from being a teacher? and please be specific with your answers as most are probably be curious as to the identity of this person.

GR82BMOI said...

The true said: “Its there lives on the line not Yours or mine, if they are willing to do this than why does it bother you so much.”

Cheryl, who do you think is ultimately going to pay for the fraud? Just like theft or fraud against any other business, banks will pass the losses resulting from the Dorean scam along to their paying customers in the form of higher fees and higher interest rates. Likewise for any other business that has, or will, suffer losses because of Dorean and/or their clients. As a taxpayer, I am being stuck with the cost of investigation and prosecution and with housing those crooks for at least the next two decades. Foreclosures potentially devalue neighboring property – maybe even MY property. Shall I go on? Or, can we agree that I have every right to be bothered?

habakkuk said...

"is that so? well then tell us who is the teacher and what qualification(s) does he or she lack that would prohibit them from being a teacher? and please be specific with your answers as most are probably be curious as to the identity of this person. "

Your original thought was that one of kurts "mentors" disagreed with his methods and now thats supposed to seal kurt's guilt...right?

First of all your assuming this...as usual.

Secondly, i know lots of pastors, preachers, teachers in the church who are good people but they are just as ignorant about this stuff as anybody else. A friend of mine presented this to his pastor and the guy called him a heretic and told him not to spread these "illegal, irresponsible schemes" to anybody else in his church. But the pastor was clueless about this whole thing until he brought it up.

Bottom line, our standard is the WORD of G-d...Not a man's opinion. The WORD of G-d stands forever....in the end it will be the ony thing standing.

habakkuk said...

"As a taxpayer, I am being stuck with the cost of investigation and prosecution and with housing those crooks for at least the next two decades. Foreclosures potentially devalue neighboring property – maybe even MY property. Shall I go on? Or, can we agree that I have every right to be bothered? "

HUH!???? You gotta be kidding me. Let me tell u something pal...you have been paying big time for the fraud the banks have commited against you for years....And you blame kurt for that.

Dot make me laugh.

Yetter said...

Worry over K and S devalueing your homes and increasing your taxes is akin to worrying over the deck chairs on the Tittanic.

son of a prophet said...

"NO. We're finding out that the "teacher" has no business being a teacher....Thats aint uncommon..."


ONLY ONE TEACHER....

YOU ALREADY KNOW WHO, BECAUSE I HAVE SAID IT MANY TIMES....


ALL TOGETHER NOW....


THE H-O-L-Y- S-P-I-R-T IS THE O-N-L-Y TEACHER.

son of a prophet said...

thats why i cannot attend any church today as there are no biblical churhes in existence today.

i will have no (teaching) authority over me but the HS

(AND NO ONE ELSE SHOULD EITHER)

ALL CHURCHES HAVE BEEN INFILTRATED BY SATAN (by virtue of false/incorrect doctrines)

(but most are too scared to trust in the HS and go it alone; but only in this way can they learn the truth and increase wisdom)

and they are afraid to "go it alone becasue they do not want to suffer, but only in suffering is the HS RIGHT THERE WITH YOU.

takes more than just reading the bible, but no one (virtually) understnds this concept

it takes suffering. only in suffering does one get close to yeshua, not just reading/studyong the bible.

when you have done a great deal of suffering, you are given the courage to look yeshua in the eye and say..."i know what you have gone thru brother...I have walked the sands with you"

you now have fellowship.

not the fellowship that the churhes teach using the "shall ot forsake felloship" verse incorrectly, applying it to fellowship after the service of coffee and donuts

whatdoyoumean said...

gr2bmoi,

Are you serious? You really think taxes pay for things we use? How far in debt is this country?

No wonder you are so outraged. You don't understand reality. You believe the government is looking out for you. Do some serious research. It's not hard to find out that the gov. is scammin with the banks. It's pretty well known at this point. Here is an interesting movie for you.

freedom to facism just watch it. Don't scoff without looking at both sides of the argument.

habakkuk said...

"NO. We're finding out that the "teacher" has no business being a teacher....Thats aint uncommon..."


ONLY ONE TEACHER....

YOU ALREADY KNOW WHO, BECAUSE I HAVE SAID IT MANY TIMES....


ALL TOGETHER NOW....


THE H-O-L-Y- S-P-I-R-T IS THE O-N-L-Y TEACHER.

___________________________________

Yep, i agree with u there SOP

GR82BMOI said...

Habakkuk said: “…you have been paying big time for the fraud the banks have commited against you for years...”

Oh, pah-leeze. What fraud? And how have I been paying? Thanks to “the bank”, I was able to purchase a home on which I pay less in mortgage payment than I would pay for rent (plus for me). On top of that, because the bank kindly lent me the money I’ve now got a tidy little sum of equity in my home that, without that loan, I would not have (another plus for me). Finally, the bank charged me just 5% interest for the mortgage, but I’m earning over 17% on my investments (big plus for me). Seems to me I’m the one ahead here – waaaaay ahead. Call it fraud if you want, but KA-CHING seems more appropriate to me.

mogel said...

Great to be Stupid said: "The true said: “Its there lives on the line not Yours or mine, if they are willing to do this than why does it bother you so much.”

Cheryl, who do you think is ultimately going to pay for the fraud? Just like theft or fraud against any other business, banks will pass the losses resulting from the Dorean scam along to their paying customers in the form of higher fees and higher interest rates. Likewise for any other business that has, or will, suffer losses because of Dorean and/or their clients. As a taxpayer, I am being stuck with the cost of investigation and prosecution and with housing those crooks for at least the next two decades. Foreclosures potentially devalue neighboring property – maybe even MY property. Shall I go on? Or, can we agree that I have every right to be bothered?
_______________________________
Yea, I'm sure the price of your coffee might go up 1 cents. Deal with it, I know it will be difficult. That's something to be bothered about. :o)
Interest rates have been low for some time, or haven't you noticed?

You should be more worried about the costs of being in Iraq which is something to be bothered about since the costs there are very high. I don't hear you complaining about that or the other myriad of irresponsible spending our irresponsible government does.

Prisons are profitable. That's why we don't do the death penalty very often. So housing the crooks as you say isn't a financial problem either.

Foreclosures don't devalue neighboring property. The properties don't stay vacant long & are sold rather quickly because it is advantageous to the banks to sell them for less than market value to dump them to savy investors. Anyway the foreclosures from Dorean is negligable compared to all the houses on the market.
Now the RTC problem years ago which was caused by our government & caused the Savings & Loan crises was a problem on real estate prices.

Yes, you need to go on, because your reasons are totally ridiculous. You need to try harder!!!

The Dorean process in & of itself doesn't cause foreclosures or bank losses. Most Dorean clients continue to pay their monthly mortages. And 4,000 clients isn't going to change your standard of living at all that you would notice it. You don't have a right to be upset at all. Remember, there is a difference between BELIEF & REALITY. Keep dreaming, my friend.

Oh by the way, should I ask you some questions and just only ask questions instead of making statements to show how stupid you really look? I can try harder too you know, but the effort isn't worth it sometimes with some people.

mogel said...

Great to Be Moi: In a society where honest lending existed, you would be making 100% return on your investments instead of 17% and not only you, but everyone else would be better off financially.

Now if you knew this, would you still feel grateful?

In Enoch's time, "there was no poor among them".

The secret to this is that they lived God's law, something you know nothing about.

mogel said...

Great to be Stupid said: BTW – banks do not lend their “own credit”.
_____________________________
So you are admitting that "fractional reserve banking" is something you don't understand? Don't banks lend out money they don't initially have? Isn't that credit? Isn't borrowing money you don't have, considered credit too? As a society, we are all concerned about having "good credit", so we can get into debt. Debt is something that grows & grows out of control more & more each year. Banks are able to "lend" based upon their assets on deposit. They are always able to lend more than they have on their asset total. How can a system like that be considered honest or fair anyway you look at it? This lending practice affects the whole of society, making the rich richer & the poor poorer.

Are you saying that banks lend out monies from their own assets or from their own capital?

Either they do that or they steal promissory notes without any financial consideration. Which is it?

Both ways are illegal by law & immoral to do for the lender anyway you look at it regardless of the choice you make, so either way, the national banks are violating the law & violating ethics.

mogel said...

Justice 777 said: "so heed this post when all is said and done and the crying and complaining starts!"
_______________________________
The crying & complaining started along time ago, or haven't you noticed???????

So are you a prophet now??? :o)

justice77777777 said...

habakkuk said...
Your original thought was that one of kurts "mentors" disagreed with his methods and now thats supposed to seal kurt's guilt...right?

actually, you are the person "assuming" things.

when did i say anything about guilt or innocence for that matter? all i did was question the obvious disagreement between teacher and student. you, are the assumer that this person should not have been a mentor or whatever and you do not even know the identity of this person to assume such.

nice try at a side step, but it didn't work unfortunately

justice77777777 said...

mogel said...
So are you a prophet now??? :o)

yes, and here is my first prophecy for you. after this is over with there will be a well justified title to a blog called:

"Mogel's an idiot"

habakkuk said...

"Thanks to “the bank”, I was able to purchase a home on which I pay less in mortgage payment than I would pay for rent (plus for me)."

EXACTLY...THATS HOW THEY LURE YOU INTO THE TRAP.

"On top of that, because the bank kindly lent me the money I’ve now got a tidy little sum of equity in my home that, without that loan, I would not have (another plus for me"

IF I DIDN'T FEEL SO SORRY FOR YOUR IGNORANCE I WOULD LAUGH AT THE FACT THAT YOU USED THE WORD "KINDLY" TO DESCRIBE THE BANKS ACTIONS. BTW...HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF A HOUSING BUBBLE? I HATE TO DISAPPOINT YOU BUT THIS BUBBLE HAS JUST ABOUT REACHED ITS BREAKING POINT....AND WHERE WILL YOUR "EQUITY" BE AT THAT POINT? NOT ONLY YOU BUT THE JONES' THAT LIVE NEXT DOOR TO YOU. AHHH, BUT U THINK YOUR LIVIN THE AMERICAN DREAM...DONT YA?

"Finally, the bank charged me just 5% interest for the mortgage..."

JUST 5% HUH?....NOT BAD. WHEN YOU CLOSED ON YOUR LOAN DID YOU HAPPEN TO LOOK AT THE TRUTH IN LENDING FORM THAT SHOWED YOU WHAT YOU PAY OVER 30 YEARS? I KNOW, I KNOW....YOUR ONE OF THOSE SHARP INVESTORS WHO TAKES THAT BORROWED $$$ AND INVESTS IT...RIGHT. WELL, IF ITS WORKIN FOR YA..GREAT....JUST DONT GET CAUGHT IN THE RED.

BTW...I USED TO BE A LOAN OFFICER AND I CLOSED A BUNCH OF LOANS WHERE THE BORROWER TURNED AROUND AND INVESTED IT. THEY WERE NOT ALL HAPPY ENDINGS.

"Call it fraud if you want, but KA-CHING seems more appropriate to me."

IN OTHER WORDS YOU COULD CARE LESS WHAT ITS DOING TO OUR COUNTRY ALL YOU CARE ABOUT IS HOW MUCH ITS PUTTING IN YOUR POCKET (TEMPORARILY)....RIGHT?

KYHOOYA said...

justice77777777 said...
mogel said...
So are you a prophet now??? :o)

yes, and here is my first prophecy for you. after this is over with there will be a well justified title to a blog called:

"Mogel's an idiot"

--------------------------

Ahhh but first there will be your's.

Let's see why don't you call it "If I only had a brain"

Cuz what you have now and 50 cents won't get you a cup of coffee.

But you already new that did'nt you?



As for the Gr8to be confused I have this to say :
If youthink that the bank are not lending you the credit if the form of their right to convert the note and there by funding your loan before you receive the money than just ask them to show you where the funds came from for you loan. It should'nt be a big deal for them to do this if they did indeed get the money from there profit and holdings in the banks records would show this.

It is you who might think to go and get you fact together about howw the system is working TODAY not what you were hand feed years ago about how it should be working . Fact is that it is not work that way any more.

Yourr right about one thing we all pay for the fraud carried out today.

We pay in the form of all the fee's the banks charges you injustly and then make's almost impossible for the lay working person to get it removed . Unless you have all day you can spend on hole with customer service only to get transfered and then disconected.

I'll tell you what when this is over or when ever you like I would be more than happy toi show you case after case of the bank's and the trick to cost you money.

One moe thing your right about that is thatyou make gfood money on the EQ on the property , only thing is you have to borrow from a bank to get it.

You see un like a loan fro you 401K or the like where you pay your self back that interest the bank count on getting that EQ from you oin the form of interest when you refi and they spend plenty to get you to do just that .
Lets see I think I got about 8 ofers to refi just today in the mail all boosting have I'm per approved and all that crap . we no that is alie and the many other forms they use how about those little adds then send that look like a gov't check a just about the time you tax return check might be comeing if you have one.

It's is you that might want to wake up and find out what is really going on TODAY not YESTERDAY things change fast in the world if your not up to speed than your run over and old news .

got to run

l8r

mogel said...

Justice said: mogel said...
So are you a prophet now??? :o)

yes, and here is my first prophecy for you. after this is over with there will be a well justified title to a blog called:

"Mogel's an idiot"
______________________________
Oh, you reached back into history & went there!!! LOL

The problem with your prophetic future reality, is that your butt is too stuck in history with a blind man's perception to know what the future holds.

You even "went there" & used the word, "justify", a derivative of the word "justice" as if you think you can make justice out of any of your little thoughts or little hopes & little dreams and little conclusions.

Go back in your little and small corner where you belong, little man! The future is much bigger and better than you perceive.

mogel said...

"Worry over K and S devalueing your homes and increasing your taxes is akin to worrying over the deck chairs on the Tittanic."
_________________________________

And it won't be a pretty site either: Revelations 18: 3-24.
(stock market & real estate crash & huge devaluation of even the rich men's former wealth & great merchants assets to nothing due to the failed currencies)

The cry will go out: "Babylon has fallen".

Base a system on false principles & it's only a matter of time that the system will fail.

GR82BMOI said...

Mogel said: “Banks are able to "lend" based upon their assets on deposit. They are always able to lend more than they have on their asset total.”

Obviously you know squat about banking, so let’s go back to the basics here – try to keep up. Banks generally lend from one of two sources:

1. Deposits – This is the most common source of loan funds for a bank. In fact, lending out deposited money to someone else is pretty much the foundation on which banking stands. It’s a very, very simple concept so please don’t try to make it any more complicated than it really is, okay?
2. Borrowings - from the Federal Reserve or another bank. Banks do not fund loans from borrowings unless they really, really have to for obvious reasons (think really hard and you’ll be able to figure this out.)

Neither of these practices is illegal. And neither is the banks “credit” (whatever that means).

Contrary to your belief, deposited funds are not assets to the bank. They are actually an asset of the depositor and are a liability to the bank. Allow me to explain: when someone deposits funds at a bank, the bank holds the money until the depositor wants it back – in other words the bank OWES it to the depositor – hence it is known as a liability! Loan funds are owed TO the bank, so (are you following me here?) loans are assets! Bank financial information is publicly available, so have a look for yourself, assuming you can read a simple balance sheet.

Prisons are profitable for the taxpayer? I’m dyin’ to hear your screwey theory on that! (LOL). For the record, I have all sorts of opinions about our irresponsible government, the price of coffee and our involvement in Iraq, but since THIS blog concerns a scam you and the Dim Duo are attempting to foist on gullible simpletons, I will limit my comments here to that topic.

GR82BMOI said...

Kafoolee wrote: "I'll tell you what when this is over or when ever you like I would be more than happy toi show you case after case of the bank's and the trick to cost you money."

The real trick is to trick 'em right back and just say 'no'. Ever thought of that?

tcob247 said...

"Babylon has fallen".


Kahooya is down?

papa_dont_preach said...

GR82BMOI gave an outstanding dissertation on how banks lend money (however not entirely true according to Title 62), but nonetheless, let's go with it and we’ll assume for a second that GR82BMOI is the subject matter expert.

GR82BMOI as I understand it, there is another court date set for the 11th in front of Alsup. This would be a perfect time to contact Keller to get in front of Alsup to testify under oath and under penalty of perjury, how banks lend money. Not even the president of a bank would be so bold.

GR82BMOI, keep the wily statements coming, you’re winning over the weak minded sheeple.

mogel said...

Great to be Moi said: "Banks GENERALLY lend from one of two sources: (1) deposits, & (2) Borrowing from the Federal Reserve or other banks
_______________________________
So since you are the expert, on a bad day, where do the banks lend from when 1 & 2 aren't applicable?
I'm dying to hear....

mogel said...

tcob247 said...
"Babylon has fallen".


Kahooya is down?
__________________________________
No, Babylon is one word, not two.
Haven't you got your dyslexia fixed yet?

GR82BMOI said...

Papa said: "...not entirely true according to Title 62..."

Please enlighten us, Papa...what does "Title 62" say about bank loans?

GR82BMOI said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
tcob247 said...

Mogel..

yet not

Stillwaiting said...

I believe banks can lend up to 9 times the amount of money on deposit. but for arguement sake let's say that they have a million on deposit and they want to lend a million. Do they? Let's say they do. They lend the money and the next day the depositors come in and make a run on the bank to pull their money (one million). What does the bank do? Where do they get the money? Do the people who have that asset at the bank get their money?
Please explain gr82moi? Please....

Judge Roy Bean said...

"Stillwaiting said...
I believe banks can lend up to 9 times the amount of money on deposit. but for arguement sake let's say that they have a million on deposit and they want to lend a million. Do they? Let's say they do. They lend the money and the next day the depositors come in and make a run on the bank to pull their money (one million). What does the bank do? Where do they get the money? Do the people who have that asset at the bank get their money?
Please explain gr82moi? Please....


You have a very primitive view of how lending supposedly works, especially mortgage lending. Do some self-education without the blindfold of scammers who use myths to promote them. Try a google on "REMIC" "Mortgage securitization" "wholesale lending" and "Residential Mortgage Backed Securities."

Loan originators (including some banks) set up loans that are only temporarily funded until they are securitized (sold through a conduit) into a pool that backs bonds sold on Wall Street to investors. That's where the money for mortgage loans ultimately comes from - not from the bank's deposits, especially their DDA accounts. Originators don't keep the loans for the most part and they have many sources of temporary capital to fund loan closings. It is a very liguid market.

Chances are, your mortgage wasn't originated by a bank at all, but by the bank's subsidiary mortgage company.

What a "bank" has on deposit may have nothing at all to do with originating a loan for which they get only the fees and points for orginating it and then sell it off.

I've used this example before, but you don't know who your baker buys wheat flour from, do you? Probably not. Do you know the farmers that supplied the wheat to the mill? No. How about the seed company the farmer bought from? No again. Nor can you expect to try and track cash and credit flows behind making a mortgage loan unless you have some significant hands-on experience in those institutions.

The people selling you the house get a check - that money came from somewhere. Probabbly a very short-term, low-interest credit facility from one of the larger specialized investment banks. The lender tapped into that credit facility (money) in order to facilitate making enough loans in a period of time to fill out a pool. That could take several weeks depending on demand.

But where they got it and especially how much they paid in interest are proprietary, especially since the business is so competitive.

And enough with the "banks can't loan their credit" malarky - read the whole statute, not just a few parsed sentences. Banks can't offer their credit in the stead of another bank is what the statute means.

When setting up these scams, it is just too easy to mislead people with little snippets of alleged "banking expertise" and "secrets."

KYHOOYA said...

justice77777777 said...
habakkuk said...
NO. We're finding out that the "teacher" has no business being a teacher....Thats aint uncommon.

is that so? well then tell us who is the teacher and what qualification(s) does he or she lack that would prohibit them from being a teacher? and please be specific with your answers as most are probably be curious as to the identity of this person.

8:57 AM
---------------------------



You don't really understand what you read hear ,do you?

"Angel of Mercy"
Is someone who posted back a few.

Your postings make more sence to me now that I know you don't really comprehend what is being said when you reat it.

Your just a little slow I guess, well tha's o.k. something's can be fixed & some can't.
I try and over look it when reading your post.


Oh just in case you still have'nt got it yet, the Angel of M is the one refered to as the 'Teacher' in the post numb nut''s


by

KYHOOYA said...

tcob247 said...
Mogel..

yet not

Now that's about the funniest thing I've heard you post. LOL

There may still be hope for you yet....not LOL

you gotto use it or lose it they say.

who ever they are?

l8r \"""""""*
q8^]>-|z======\/
just hit the ball with the paddle o.k.

KYHOOYA said...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Incredible!
More than 37,000 people told Congress to pass common sense credit card reforms last week, and thousands of you sent our holiday song to your friends and families.

check out the fact's on how most people think about bamk's at CONSUMER INFO .COM

THE SCAMMERS ARE THE ONE'S THAT WANT TO KEEP TELLING YOU THAT BANK'S ARE YOUR FRIENDS AND DON'T WANT TO CHEAT YOU.

whatdoyoumean said...

Judge Roy,

Your explanation is very complicated and sounds like it has a lot of detail, but ultimately boils down to "who knows".

I may also be included in the "primitave" category you described, but I believe when things are extremely complicated as you describe this.... they are intended to confuse people. I don't believe for one second that this has to be so difficult and hard to understand. I think it's just like a credit card, they set it up to intentionally trick you. They use misleading terms and very deceptive methods of calculating fees, charges, and so on.

Here's the big question Judge???
Why is this any different than how the tobacco companies have been deceptively advertising their cancerous product, all the while modifying it to make it more and more addictive?

Why do we allow these predators to continue? Don't we see the side effects of the financial cancer? Every expert says yes, the country is in debt, the people are in debt, and you think Kurt is the SCAMMER???

It is truly mindboggling to me that anyone would defend the horrible financial system, unless they benefit from it staying the same. Why is it that less than 5% of the population is rich? How much of the population is poor? Don't tell me it's because they don't work hard, cause most of the hardest working people, are the poorest. The lazy bastards that golf all day make more in a year than a laborer makes in a lifetime.

I am seriously asking. Please make your best attempt to answer this.

tcob247 said...

The lazy bastards that golf all day make more in a year than a laborer makes in a lifetime.

Maybe they work smart not hard
Do you want everyone to make exactly the same no matter what they do?
Isnt that called communism?
There are ways to better yourself
You have choices
I made quite a bit last year but I didnt physically work hard for it.
Should I go out and dig ditches to even things out?

mogel said...

Judge Bean said: "That's where the money for mortgage loans ultimately comes from - not from the bank's deposits, especially their DDA accounts."
______________________________
So are you saying that "Great to Be Moi" is completely wrong when he says that loans come from bank deposits? That's a yes or no!

Judge Roy Bean said...

Whatdoyoumean asks an excellent question, and if you visit my blog you'll soon see I have little sympathy for lenders and the industry as a whole.

But as a consumer advocate, what is most annoying are situations where people who've been taken advantage of find themselves in difficult circumstances (usually as a result of a major unexpected event like an illness or loss of job). Then they start looking for answers and help and can wind up falling into one of these debt-elimination scams.

They may even find themselves in litigation along the way, and sadly, even when the predatory lender or servicer is clearly taking advantage of them, the fact that they tried to use a scam to solve the problem helps to destroy their credibility. The legal concept is "unclean hands," and finding an attorney willing to put up a fight against a predatory servicer is next-to impossible with a client in these situations.

And "we" don't allow the lenders to continue making predatory loans and churn them through abusive servicers over and over again. The people we elect are unwilling to tinker with the economics of home-ownership and are content to accept a certain amount of collateral damage among their consituents.

The industry spends millions and millions of dollars in lobbying and far more than that in campaign contributions every year.

And when it comes to credit cards, as I've written before, all using CC's does is accelerate when you get something. They pander to our impatience. But it's OPM - Other People's Money and it's justs as addictive as its namesake, but unfortunately it's not illegal and no matter which party is in charge, it won't change much.

As for making it complex, complexity is a fact of life in any advancing economy. It has a twin sister, specialization. The more complex a market or technology becomes, the more specialized the people in it have to become. Pretty soon, it's almost impossible for any one person to be responsible for understanding the entire scope of a business, let alone explaining it.

Too many people see lending as if it were conducted between two people. I liken that simplistic, historical view to attempting to equate bicycles and Citation biz-jets just because both are vehicles. Rest assured, there's no one person, not even a team of three or four who can understand let alone fix everything on a Citation, while there are thousands and thousands of people who can fix almost anything on a bike, including a lot of ordinary consumers.

There's no reason to expect industries to remain static. Competition drives innovation and the really opportunistic players will either work behind the scenes to get favorable tax and legislative treatment (as in the people who came up with REMIC's) or, in the case of far too many others, will prey on consumers.

mogel said...

Judge said: "I've used this example before, but you don't know who your baker buys wheat flour from, do you?"
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No, but it can be determined with some serious research & can be proven & shown exactly where the wheat flour comes from. The baker knows who is suppliers are. The problem with the opponents of the Dorean process, is that they don't want the banks to prove where the source of funds come from because it would expose that the lenders/originators/banks are quite dishonest in their dealings & don't take the risk they lead you to believe and hence are not entitled to the exhorbitant profits they rake in.

How do you think the experts found that the Ecoli virus came originally from the cows in the field, and didn't originate from the food. You don't think the merchant at the grocery story put the virus in your food, do you through improper handling?

The problem with lending is that the lenders or originators, don't want you to know where the source of the funds come from which is from the borrowers original promissory note, not the investors in the marketplace that buy the securities which by the way, the investors don't have real and proper legal title to because it was had through fraud & improper transfers.

Ultimately that's where the monies come from, NOT from where you suggest which you say is investors in the market place that buy the mortgage backed securities.

Strong supporters of the Dorean Process are not ignorant of the full process how lending goes from one phase to another to hide the fraud.

The banks are getting rich without having to reach into their own pockets to fund the loan. When they advertise, "we have money to loan"; this is deceptive advertising.

You must support "chop shops" too that steal car parts & cars too for huge profit. That must be moral & good in your mind too.

Judge Roy Bean said...

Mogel asked
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So are you saying that "Great to Be Moi" is completely wrong when he says that loans come from bank deposits? That's a yes or no!
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That isn't what he said so your question about him being "completely wrong" is moot. Again, lenders (including banks) have multiple sources of funds to originate loans. It's their business decision as to how to go about it.

Judge Roy Bean said...

Mogel, you must still be confused about the fact that your mythological version of lending and banking law has been struck down by the courts repeatedly.

People have gotten themselves into serious financial and legal trouble playing "let's pretend" as you continue to suggest they should.

mogel said...

Judge said: "The legal concept is "unclean hands," and finding an attorney willing to put up a fight against a predatory servicer is next-to impossible with a client in these situations."
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That's not true. Are you saying a Dorean client is unable or has a nil chance to have an attorney down the road, defend his rights & interests if he so chooses & that there are no attorneys out there to take their case?

Whatever the Dorean trustees did for the client, which the client gave the responsibility to the Dorean Group in good faith, doesn't give the client "unclean hands". That's quite a jump to a conclusion, don't you think, especially in light that no one has ever been convicted of fraud to date by simply being a Dorean client.

I know of many former Dorean clients that have done a TILA audit. Those TILA audits are filed by paralegals & then defended in Court by lawyers, so you don't know what you are talking about.

mogel said...

Judge said: "Mogel, you must still be confused about the fact that your mythological version of lending and banking law has been struck down by the courts repeatedly."
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No, I'm aware of those cases & have read them.

mogel said...

Great to be Moi said: "In fact, lending out DEPOSITED MONEY to someone else is pretty much the FOUNDATION on which banking stands. It’s a very, very SIMPLE concept so please don’t try to make it any MORE COMPLICATED than it really is."
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According to Judge Bean it isn't the foundation of banking to lend from bank deposits. According to Judge Bean it is very complicated since the bank has MANY SOURCES TO CHOOSE FROM WHICH IS THEIR OWN BUSINESS DECISION THAT MUST CHANGE DEPENDING ON WHERE THEY CHOOSE TO FIND THE MONIES TO FUND THE LOAN, so the word, "foundation" you used only serves to confuse.

Judge Bean wants to suggest from his examples of bread and manufacturing processes that since it's SO COMPLICATED due to the necessary specialization that is needed to complete the lending process, that it's not really important to determine where the source of funds come from, so it isn't as simple as you suggest, oh my great one, it's great to be you, A/K/A 8r82bmoi.

If you confuse the issues enough, you never get the specific answers to specific questions that is needed to expose the lending fraud. Judge Alsup's decision did not refute all the 50 or so points of the "affidavit of truth" which was sent to all lenders for all the dorean clients. He did not support his decision with correct law. There was no expert testimony under oath, no expert affidavits in Alsup's cases. Why is that? It's like his actions are, "lets just sweep this under the carpet" with a quick decision with no debating back and forth. Let's put an end to this.

No high ranking banker will go under oath to testify where the money from loans really comes from. That's why there will be no trial against K&S. A testimony under oath would be necessary to convict K&S of bank fraud in a trial. No trial ever will produce the records that was demanded such as original promissory notes for each dorean client because the prosecution will never want to go there either.

In the end, there will still be aprivate perception of the Dorean Process & a public perception of the Dorean Process & both views will differ as night & day. This will never change when everything is said & done, but there will be no jail time for the heroes & there will be a financial settlement for clients. As long as the heros go free, many will always wonder what the truth really is and what really happened. It will be like the OJ Simpson trial, did he really do it?

If you call a process a myth, does it make it a myth, even if a Court says it's a myth? Is a court decision all knowing & always all truthful, the whole truth, & nothing but the truth?

Even financial experts disagree with conclusions that Judge Alsup came to. Why is that? Is an expert less knowing than a Judge? Who is the real expert or who should be the expert? A judge who is motivated by special interests, or an expert that has no hidden agenda or financial interest?

Many authors & financial & banking experts agree with the Dorean Process principles. Are these non-dorean people also fraudsters & scam artists? I think not.

habakkuk said...

tcob said.....

The lazy bastards that golf all day make more in a year than a laborer makes in a lifetime.

TRUE.

Maybe they work smart not hard
Do you want everyone to make exactly the same no matter what they do?
Isnt that called communism?
There are ways to better yourself
You have choices
I made quite a bit last year but I didnt physically work hard for it.
Should I go out and dig ditches to even things out?

NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO DO THAT....YOU CAN GO BACK TO BEING A LAZY BASTARD MAKING LOTS OF MONEY. I'M ASSUMING YOU ACQUIRED THE KNOWLEDGE TO GET WHAT YOU GOT...THATS A GOOD THING...KEEP IT UP.

LETS JUST MAKE THE THIEVES RETURN WHAT THEY STOLE....YOU KNOW, THOU SHALT NOT STEEL...ITS ONE OF THE FIRST LAWS EVER RECORDED.

whatdoyoumean said...

Judge,

Thanks for your articulate answer. This is profitable debate in my opinion. Now being a consumer advocate, don't you think you are straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel? If the main problem (predatory lending) was eliminated, would we have to worry about debt elimination programs?

You see the same flagrant corruption as I do, why do you chop at the branches? Do you really think that the two guys in jail didn't really intend to accomplish their advertised task? That they didn't genuinly want to help people? That debt elimination isn't a side effect of an unjust and corrupt system?

The way I see it, they advertised to consumers what they intended to do, notified the banks what they intended to do, and what the bank had to do to prevent it. Then they did it, sent copies of all their documents to the fbi, and didn't run for the hills when things got hot. They offered interviews to anyone from the media, and they continue to fight from behind bars.

You actually confirm the arguments Kurt makes by saying that reality is whatever the judge says it is. Your whole basis for why they are guilty, is cause the judges won't hear the argument.

See I am a boxing fan, and I see it all the time. Sometimes fights are fixed, the guy that actually beat up the other guy doesn't always get the decision from the judges. That is the case here. Their argument is sound, but the judges refuse to make a fair unbiased judgement. Put it before a jury, let all the facts be presented and the banks lose. Let a judge pick and choose which parts can be heard, and you know who wins. It's like gambling in vegas, the house set out to rob you. But the guy counting cards that wins too much gets thrown in jail for cheating the cheaters....

dgwondering said...

Gashler the liar said: "Even financial experts disagree with conclusions that Judge Alsup came to. " WHo, liar? Swanson? Julian? Come on, who are the experts that haven't been shot down in court?

mogel said...

DG Wondering: I've already posted those links of experts. Do a google search & type in the question: How does lending work & see how many different links come up, that agree with the Dorean Process idea that lenders "create money" that they don't have. I don't think you will see those names of authors of some of those links in any court action. Go back in the archives & read those links. I'm not going to be redundant just for your satisfaction. Even Federal Reserve Publications disagree with certain Court decisions.

All you tend to prove is that the courts have a tendency for corruption when it comes to certain issues & want to hide the complete truth.

Tell me do you worship at the bar of the Court too? Are Judges something holy to worship as having all knowing truth? If court decisions are the sole basis for truth, then, you are the one to be pitied.

As usual, you just take in what you want to hear & nothing more.

dgwondering said...

And we see Gashler the liar lie again. His so called experts are BS artists just like him and the Dorean scammers. Come on Byron, give us a case where they won. We arent' holding our breath.

But you'll just call the courts corrupt when your BS artists lose. Simple plan. Just make shit up as you go along and then when it doesn't fly blame someone else.

Your not only a liar, Gashler, you're a punk liar who got caught in another scam and just can't find a way out except to keep lying.

neodemes said...

moogie sez: "I'm not going to be redundant"

*********************************

THAT sounds to good to be true.

:-)

mogel said...

DG Wondering said: Gashler the liar said: "Even financial experts disagree with conclusions that Judge Alsup came to. " WHo, liar? Swanson? Julian? Come on, who are the experts that haven't been shot down in court?
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Ask your buddy Nemo to give you the link to the "Walker affidavit". He's printed it on his website before. That affidavit shows that Alsup didn't know what he was talking about in his Civil Court rulings. Walker is a financial expert that worked for the Federal Reserve Banks for over 20 years. I'm not aware of his name (Walker) being dragged into the courts & singled out as some raving lunatic that spouts out ridiculous unproven theories.